Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Templar Biting Jabs is OP !!!
RoCoL
✭✭✭
Here, since there weren't any of these kind of threads before I figured I'd make one.
There are a number of other skills that have numerous posts about "this" skill being OP or "that" skill being OP yet I failed to find the OP thread on Biting Jabs.
Is this the way Zeni is dealing with bots?
A forum search simply doesn't hit when searching for the OP Biting Jabs Templar- So the Zeni excuse or reason makes no logical sense.
The only thing that makes sense is a very poor attempt to cleanse the bot population.
"Gotta break a few eggs" mentality is absurd in this case.
There are a number of other skills that have numerous posts about "this" skill being OP or "that" skill being OP yet I failed to find the OP thread on Biting Jabs.
Is this the way Zeni is dealing with bots?
A forum search simply doesn't hit when searching for the OP Biting Jabs Templar- So the Zeni excuse or reason makes no logical sense.
The only thing that makes sense is a very poor attempt to cleanse the bot population.
"Gotta break a few eggs" mentality is absurd in this case.
6
-
RoCoL✭✭✭This was a bug and they are looking into it
Sadly, it was intended, per Zeni response team. But in retrospect, they now feel it was a bit much and are going to raise the cost of the skill....
Using Occams Razor its simply a b.s. excuse to cleanse the bots. Perhaps they figured the NA player base would be smaller over Memorial Day and the backlash would not be so great. But the fact is, it was intended, for no legitimate or logical (from a non gold farmer stand point) reason.7 -
Kreager✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom admin
May 23 Staff Post
Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.
In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.
This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.3 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭This was a bug and they are looking into it
Actually, it was an intended change.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.
In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.
This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB2 -
RoCoL✭✭✭"Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize."
Here we have a word game. I can say one thing while have it mean different things, depending on the readers ability to parse words.1 -
Kreager✭✭✭I believe the cool down was intended not the issue of not being able to do anything for 1.5 seconds after the cast. The total lock out is a bug and it is the only reason they are changing it. A GCD should not affect other skills1
-
RoCoL✭✭✭I believe the cool down was intended not the issue of not being able to do anything for 1.5 seconds after the cast. The total lock out is a bug and it is the only reason they are changing it. A GCD should not affect other skills
OK. But there is still no logic to the nerf. Thread after thread of OP Biting Jabs does not exist. Yet it "did too much damage" is the excuse were getting, while not getting a hot fix for the unintended consequence, during a long gaming weekend = were being lied to.3 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭OK. But there is still no logic to the nerf. Thread after thread of OP Biting Jabs does not exist. Yet it "did too much damage" is the excuse were getting, while not getting a hot fix for the unintended consequence, during a long gaming weekend = were being lied to.
I would like to think they make changes based on facts and figures within the pages and pages of stats that build up based on the actual in-game combat and not because whiny biaches moan on a forum.
Just saying!
6 -
RoCoL✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »OK. But there is still no logic to the nerf. Thread after thread of OP Biting Jabs does not exist. Yet it "did too much damage" is the excuse were getting, while not getting a hot fix for the unintended consequence, during a long gaming weekend = were being lied to.
I would like to think they make changes based on facts and figures within the pages and pages of stats that build up based on the actual in-game combat and not because whiny biaches moan on a forum.
Just saying!
Well, the data is obviously skewed when its the bot trains that are doing the skewing and the player gets skrewed. -
just sayin'Edited by RoCoL on 24 May 2014 12:203 -
Tendeep✭✭✭I feel as if they do not actually put these skills to tests in-game. Any player who tries to build a melee spec Templar would realize that this is pretty much our HP closer skill - since all of the weapon skill line such so many balls.
It is a great burst dps skill, BUT keep in mind, you have to be within like 6m to have it hit... being this close to an enemy puts you in great deal of risk for death (pvp mostly). On that note, our only real AoE grind CLASS skill for PvE.
Take it from a guy who wanted to level only in Cyro pvp til they nerfed Cyro quests. My Sword and Board Temp relies on this skill for any sort of damage to burst through heals, interrupt, etc. This nerf is going to make our magic pools suffer even more, so there goes the utility skills, its either use it all on dps, or heals/util, then stamina dump. Medium and Heavy armor players have NO magic regen now, and this just makes it worse by upping the cost of Jabs. Please leave Jabs alone, but also please look into the horrible non class skills that use Stamina...Edited by Tendeep on 24 May 2014 12:492 -
anakaki✭✭✭Here, since there weren't any of these kind of threads before I figured I'd make one.
There are a number of other skills that have numerous posts about "this" skill being OP or "that" skill being OP yet I failed to find the OP thread on Biting Jabs.
Is this the way Zeni is dealing with bots?
A forum search simply doesn't hit when searching for the OP Biting Jabs Templar- So the Zeni excuse or reason makes no logical sense.
The only thing that makes sense is a very poor attempt to cleanse the bot population.
"Gotta break a few eggs" mentality is absurd in this case.
Good thing it's been nerfed and unusable now then.Death Recap for TemplarsHave you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Templars do more dps than DK's.2 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »OK. But there is still no logic to the nerf. Thread after thread of OP Biting Jabs does not exist. Yet it "did too much damage" is the excuse were getting, while not getting a hot fix for the unintended consequence, during a long gaming weekend = were being lied to.
I would like to think they make changes based on facts and figures within the pages and pages of stats that build up based on the actual in-game combat and not because whiny biaches moan on a forum.
Just saying!
Well, the data is obviously skewed when its the bot trains that are doing the skewing and the player gets skrewed. -
just sayin'
You would think they take such stats from PVP combat and besides, the figures would be in damage per usage making the number of times used irrelevant.
I have a Templar, I can tell you that Biting Jabs is op! Bots or not. A slight mana increase is not going to change much. Agree, disagree, it makes little difference.
Just don't expect people to care when the result is an overall more balanced game for everyone. The same can be said of the Bash nerf.
2 -
RoCoL✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »OK. But there is still no logic to the nerf. Thread after thread of OP Biting Jabs does not exist. Yet it "did too much damage" is the excuse were getting, while not getting a hot fix for the unintended consequence, during a long gaming weekend = were being lied to.
I would like to think they make changes based on facts and figures within the pages and pages of stats that build up based on the actual in-game combat and not because whiny biaches moan on a forum.
Just saying!
Well, the data is obviously skewed when its the bot trains that are doing the skewing and the player gets skrewed. -
just sayin'
You would think they take such stats from PVP combat and besides, the figures would be in damage per usage making the number of times used irrelevant.
I have a Templar, I can tell you that Biting Jabs is op! Bots or not. A slight mana increase is not going to change much. Agree, disagree, it makes little difference.
Just don't expect people to care when the result is an overall more balanced game for everyone. The same can be said of the Bash nerf.
To enter Cyrodiil you must be lvl 10. Youre going to need to participate in questing or grinding some pve content in order to get there. I do not speak for everyone, but I dare guess many, many folks play this for the pve content. Basing a nerf, on pvp would be absurd, would it not?1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »OK. But there is still no logic to the nerf. Thread after thread of OP Biting Jabs does not exist. Yet it "did too much damage" is the excuse were getting, while not getting a hot fix for the unintended consequence, during a long gaming weekend = were being lied to.
I would like to think they make changes based on facts and figures within the pages and pages of stats that build up based on the actual in-game combat and not because whiny biaches moan on a forum.
Just saying!
Well, the data is obviously skewed when its the bot trains that are doing the skewing and the player gets skrewed. -
just sayin'
You would think they take such stats from PVP combat and besides, the figures would be in damage per usage making the number of times used irrelevant.
I have a Templar, I can tell you that Biting Jabs is op! Bots or not. A slight mana increase is not going to change much. Agree, disagree, it makes little difference.
Just don't expect people to care when the result is an overall more balanced game for everyone. The same can be said of the Bash nerf.
To enter Cyrodiil you must be lvl 10. Youre going to need to participate in questing or grinding some pve content in order to get there. I do not speak for everyone, but I dare guess many, many folks play this for the pve content. Basing a nerf, on pvp would be absurd, would it not?
Balanc in PVE is not nearly as important as it is in PVP. Why do you think most people don't want arenas?
Going back to the original point. There is no way they would nerf this because of bots. The only way they could stop bots from using it would be to remove it.
Bots that use jabs travel in pacts. They use this because it's the first skill to buy and it's op. What may I ask, stands a chance of living more that a second or two when 4-8 bots are spamming it over and over again?
What the hell difference would a slight mana increase make?
1 -
I agree with the poster
Before the patch, it wasn't OP. It dealt high damage but the magicka cost were high. And its not that useful in PvP, i've tried it, players tend to dodge, block or jump out before I can finish my 4 hits. So don't nerf it , just teach the NPCs how to block...
or dodge even...Edited by randomriffyrocksprerb18_ESO on 24 May 2014 13:182 -
Azphira✭✭✭Nerf this, nerf that. No one ever asks to be buffed. Is it because watching someone else suffer feels better than seeing yourself get improved? No wonder this game, and the world for that matter, is a mess. It's full of sadists.3
-
RoCoL✭✭✭Nerf this, nerf that. No one ever asks to be buffed. Is it because watching someone else suffer feels better than seeing yourself get improved? No wonder this game, and the world for that matter, is a mess. It's full of sadists.
Do folks engage their cognitive abilities before posting?
This post was to show the absurdity of the current nerf.
There are/were no cries to nerf this particular skill -yet they did-
There are thread after thread about particular skills being OP and this WAS NOT one of them, yet it got crushed, not nerfed, rendered unusable, absurd, clunky and broken to the point of creating an unplayable class
3 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭randomriffyrocksprerb18_ESO wrote: »I agree with the poster
Before the patch, it wasn't OP. It dealt high damage but the magicka cost were high. And its not that useful in PvP, i've tried it, players tend to dodge, block or jump out before I can finish my 4 hits. So don't nerf it , just teach the NPCs how to block...
Righto! Now find me another skill that you can spam 3 times in succession and everything in range is dead and still have enough mana to go and do the same to the next group of mobs.
As for PVP that's a person by person decision. You can move while using it though but because it's not great in PVP is exactly why no one has been asking for a nerf...Edited by Tannakaobi on 24 May 2014 13:411 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Nerf this, nerf that. No one ever asks to be buffed. Is it because watching someone else suffer feels better than seeing yourself get improved? No wonder this game, and the world for that matter, is a mess. It's full of sadists.
So who has asked for a nerf? Even the op mentions that no one has.
2 -
Azphira✭✭✭And I just woke up and posted that before coffee.
![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
Edited by Azphira on 24 May 2014 13:242 -
RoCoL✭✭✭And I just woke up and posted that before coffee.
I can relate.....Sadly, now I am over-caffeinated and cannot run my VR6 Temp and really, after 5 closed betas, early access and 8 weeks of grinding to get there I just do not have the gumption to start another toon or play in the lowbie areas right now.2 -
Azphira✭✭✭So it's pretty much..
Bots: Cancer
Playerbase: Patient
Nerfs: Chemotherapy
Hope the bots die before the playerbase from the chemo?4 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭"Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize."
Here we have a word game. I can say one thing while have it mean different things, depending on the readers ability to parse words.
The "This was not intended, and we do apologize" was in the first paragraph with not 'mentioning/documenting the change'... - the sentence went with that first paragraph as would be the norm.
>>>>>"Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.
In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. *This was not intended, and we do apologize.*
This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost."
<<<<<<
The NEXT paragraph and NEW thought went on next to explain the process by which the devs decided to make the change. Very concise and clear.Edited by Anastasia on 24 May 2014 13:331 -
RoCoL✭✭✭"Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize."
Here we have a word game. I can say one thing while have it mean different things, depending on the readers ability to parse words.
The "This was not intended, and we do apologize" was in the first paragraph with not 'mentioning/documenting the change'... - the sentence went with that first paragraph as would be the norm.
>>>>>"Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.
In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. *This was not intended, and we do apologize.*
This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost."
<<<<<<
The NEXT paragraph and NEW thought went on next to explain the process by which the devs decided to make the change. Very concise and clear.
And its all a giant steaming pile of crap. Its a way to weed out the bots, and as another poster put it, paraphrasing of course, "cross your fingers and hope the bots leave before the player base does"1 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭i will quit the game if they dont fix it, templar melee is going to lose all its fun without this ability.VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer2 -
Jimm_ay✭✭✭I want to know who beta tests these things? I come from another now dead mmo which had a test server instance and they put patches on test before go live. Players were encouraged to go on test and report bugs and what not. I think this (as well as the vr npcs getting god mode dmg) would be glaring.1
-
OmniDo✭✭✭✭✭What players need to consider is that there are essentially two "Voices" for ZOS.
One is the external forums, which you have a high signal-to-noise ratio, and the other are their internal testers, not necessarily relegated to the PTS.
Their internal testers will have a higher signal and a louder "voice", simply because they are there to provide their opinions, presumed to be based upon classical evaluation and logical analysis techniques.
Having worked for Turbine as an internal tester, I can assure you that my voice, and the voices of those whom tested internally with us, carried far more weight and consideration than the voices of the public, simply due to form, structure, presentation, and empirical evidence.
Developers need Data and information provided to them as de-facto concrete, so that objective analyses can be conducted and feasible solutions be devised.
Coming to a public forum and posting content that is tantamount to "Noise"; such as "This skill is OP! Needs to be nerfed cuz I cant kill things!" is far less effective than information presented in a more efficient fashion, such as:
Skill Used: Biting Jabs
Damage Done: <x> Amount
Number of Targets: 3
Delay between Attacks1.2-1.5 Seconds
Location: <zone-x>
Steps to Reproduce: Hover/Target Mob, press Ability
The more clear, concise, and efficiently said information can be presented, the faster developers and project management can identify, confirm, and implement a solution. The problem is that the "Noise" in public forums tends to be far higher than the signal, resulting in delayed responses and resolutions.
Also consider the limits of their testers, testing environment, and their availability.
While I, and many of my "team", did find a plethora of bugs, imbalances, and exploits which we were able to report to the Turbine Developers, keep in mind that this was not our primary Objective.
We were there to provide feedback on the overall experience, and it just so happened that many of us were veteran testers whom enjoyed finding new ways to break things.
Much of the end result depends highly on the approach, evidence, and presentation.Edited by OmniDo on 24 May 2014 14:243
