Pointless 'nerf' to low level armour appearance

Nephys

I get why the veteran armour has been improved in terms of its aesthetic appeal but was there really any need to make lower level armour appear rusty and faded? Would a Great House reward one of its heroes with something that looked as if it had spent a number of years rotting in the corner of the stables? Really?

Personally, I have little interest in veteran levels, preferring to level a number of alts slowly as I find the game too tedious to play on one character for any length of time. I do not believe ESO is alt friendly as it is and pointless amendments like this just make the situation worse. It is not as if the lower level armour looks great in the first place; now it is little better than what I left the starting area with in terms of appearance.

yodased

I honestly think that the armor models were completely messed up from the beginning. Obviously its the same core pieces with layers that give the armor its end look, they had the layers messed up giving lower level armor the look of higher level armor and vice versa.

People got used to the lower level armors looking great because they looked like high level armors. Now that its fixed and low level armors look like low level armors, people will be tooshie hurt.

Nephys

Nonsense. The armour looked crap before the nerf, now it looks worse and yet the veteran armour is considerably better than it was. If they had left the lower level armour as it was it still would have looked mediocre.

Khandi

I agree with the OP with a caveat that the armor and characters in this game are rather ugly to begin with, just look at their hair and faces. Something about the 'sameness' in all of them that is just....flat looking....drab....lifeless. Weird?

ArcaneBlue

can't agree more op, first do no harm... they didn't look too great pre-patch but they were ok, so why the "fix" (or "change") now?

if it's not broken don't even attempt to fix it.

Omnevolus

Absolutely agreed, Nephys. Just saw your thread too! Nerfing the appearance of low level gear was just unnecessary. It wasn't great to begin with, and an increasingly aesthetic progression of appearance was already in-place. Have a look at eso-fashions.com (before it is updated!) to see that there was absolutely no reason to nerf these armors while also improving vet gear. Gear very clearly already went from simple to beautiful progressively, no matter the subjective quality of the original low level gear. Sure, some tweaks were deserved here and there at the high tiers, sure vet gear could always look cooler, it's vet gear, after all!

But, also punish low level alt-aholics like myself (as well as countless new players and returning players in the future) with not only a content update that wholly and pointedly neglects the vast majority of players (and this before serious and core defects and bot invasions have even been addressed appropriately), but add insult to injury by going out of the way to spend time and energy lowering the quality of already low-quality appearance options that also already gave the proper sense of progress, while announcing before the update and in the current patch notes that Vet gear appearance would be improved, PERIOD, with no mention AT ALL of lowering the appearance quality of lower tier gear?!

If you wanted to screw us, ZOS, you could have bought us flowers first.

Arsenic_Touch

yodased wrote: »

I honestly think that the armor models were completely messed up from the beginning. Obviously its the same core pieces with layers that give the armor its end look, they had the layers messed up giving lower level armor the look of higher level armor and vice versa.

People got used to the lower level armors looking great because they looked like high level armors. Now that its fixed and low level armors look like low level armors, people will be tooshie hurt.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. The old armors were never intended to look that way. Now you'll get what you were supposed to get and once you hit veteran level you'll have better looking gear. Like intended.

Nephys

@Arsenic_Touch You must have a strange taste if you think that most of the low level armours actually looked like something you would 'achieve' at veteran level. They were poor to begin with and now they are simply even more dour. This pointless shifting of the goalposts by Zenimax is tiresome and only adds to the disgruntlement felt by many in the game.

No one is complaining about the improvement to Veteran armour, but there was little point in making low level armour quite so dire when it was already uninspiring to begin with.

yodased

The point here folks is that they didn't "nerf" anything. They had messed up they layering of armors. Certain layers from vet armors were being applied to low level armors and not vet armors.

They FIXED THE PROBLEM so it works the way that it was intended to be in the first place, not changed it so it looks worse.

kassandratheclericb14_ESO

So until I reach level 50 or whatever it is I can not see color?

I don't go through content like my arse is on fire...so I can't have anything but armor the color of anything other than shades of crap? 50 shades of crap...that my new book.

Vet armor should look better yes I totally agree. But it should look better for more than just having color. Unique meshes!!

If Zen wants to get the folks that play the single player TES games (which for PC are moddable) then having some variation in the armor is surprisingly important. No it isn't the most important (so don't even go there-I am well aware of the other issues right now) but really....I just had a bit of blue. I wasn't glowing and didn't have fancy fairy wings or anything. It was just a bit of blue and now its all gone and all brown.

Getting new armor as I level with some hope of looking cool is half the fun. I shouldn't have to wait 50 levels for that. Vet getting the best..absolutely. Vet getting it all...nope.

yodased

FYI dyes are coming next few patches so this is all moot

Omnevolus

yodased wrote: »

People got used to the lower level armors looking great because they looked like high level armors. Now that its fixed and low level armors look like low level armors, people will be tooshie hurt.

They did? Then how come, in the end, they looked lower quality than high level armors? Is there something wrong with going from good looking armor to great looking armor? And is it possible that good and great looking are subjective anyway? They still advanced in appearance quality from the beginning, and if these have been the armors appearances from launch, where are these mysterious comparison pieces you're referring to? Lol, no. Low level looked like low level, high looked like high but apparently not high enough. It is just not applicable here to compare the low level and high level armors to standards of quality that never, in fact, existed in this game. We are talking about a subject that can only be compared within its own framework, and the fact is, low may have looked better than some other game, but here, in this context, they still just looked low. I'm not sure how this concept can be misunderstood.

Unless we're saying that (forgive the PC violation for lack of a better phrase) "Indian-giving" is now an acceptable and sensible practice by game developers, even when the commonly accepted idea of increasingly progressive advancement is still being met, however imperfectly. The improvement of Vet gear would have been plenty, and certainly enough. Especially when announcement of the nerf appears to have been neglected.

kassandratheclericb14_ESO

I hope beyond hope that is true

hk11

The armor is all made of spandex as far as I can tell.

yodased

Omnevolus wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

People got used to the lower level armors looking great because they looked like high level armors. Now that its fixed and low level armors look like low level armors, people will be tooshie hurt.

They did? Then how come, in the end, they looked lower quality than high level armors? Is there something wrong with going from good looking armor to great looking armor? And is it possible that good and great looking are subjective anyway? They still advanced in appearance quality from the beginning, and if these have been the armors appearances from launch, where are these mysterious comparison pieces you're referring to? Lol, no. Low level looked like low level, high looked like high but apparently not high enough. It is just not applicable here to compare the low level and high level armors to standards of quality that never, in fact, existed in this game. We are talking about a subject that can only be compared within its own framework, and the fact is, low may have looked better than some other game, but here, in this context, they still just looked low. I'm not sure how this concept can be misunderstood.

We can subjectively compare and contrast what we feel is 'better' and what 'low' and 'high' armor looks like all day. The fact of the matter is the people who created the armor did so purposefully. Those same designers realized it wasn't working as intended and fixed it. What we feel looks better or worse is inconsequential to the discussion.

BBSooner

Yeah, my orichalc Orsimer armor went from steel looking with copper/bluish trim to night orange chain mail and blue plate. Really awful. The dwarf and spider silk sets I'm living with on my other chars but it's definitely a downgrade in looks all around.

Darkro

Your low level armor should look similar in quality with my vet10 epic/legendary armor OVER MY DEAD DECAYING BODY.

Nephys

@Darkro It doesn't and it never did. It has always looked crap, and now it looks crappier. No one is saying that it ought to look like Vet10 armour - just that it doesn't have to look like a rusty, faded mess. There was no need to change it. Vet armour has been upgraded and there is not a cat in hells chance of mistaking that from what low level armour used to look like.

Naru_D_Wynn

same here , had some lvl 32 leather that i upgraded to rare quality ... it had some nice coloring but far from anything veteran-looking

now... its all faded brown and looks total crap like it was at normal (white) quality b4 the patch ... this blows

CapuchinSeven

Like most MMO boards, these sorts of posts drift into the background and are forgotten, armour dyes will be here very shortly and this whole thread becomes pointless.

Chill out.

Nephys

@CapuchinSeven The pointless element was changing the appearance in the first place. Zenimax appear to go out of their way to make changes that are not required, while leaving bugs in the game for weeks. I had an issue with a quest yesterday, only to find that the bug had been repeatedly reported since the end of April.

I get your 'chill out' comment, but with ESO it is one irritant after another.

Hadria

It wasn't right in the first place they changed so that it worked properly now go away.

Khandi

yodased wrote: »

FYI dyes are coming next few patches so this is all moot

Dyes!!??!! OMG! Add in a AH and ESO will be nothing but a WoW clone!!

Nephys

Be quiet. It was right enough - ie - it looked like low level armour, now it just looks tatty. It is not my fault they made a 'mistake', but it is not one that was soooo over the top that it actually needed changing. That is the point.

Khandi

Darkro wrote: »

Your low level armor should look similar in quality with my vet10 epic/legendary armor OVER MY DEAD DECAYING BODY.

Did anyone actually say that? Calm down.

Omnevolus

yodased wrote: »

The point here folks is that they didn't "nerf" anything. They had messed up they layering of armors. Certain layers from vet armors were being applied to low level armors and not vet armors.

They FIXED THE PROBLEM so it works the way that it was intended to be in the first place, not changed it so it looks worse.

Sorry, but you seem to be looking at this from a biased perspective and neglecting to give any consideration to the posts here that are trying to express just how comprehensive this NERF really is. If I had a high level toon, I'm sure I'd be quite happy with the Vet gear aspect of the update too. But I would still be pissed about my experience, below. We are not talking about low level armors mistakenly having high level meshes. If you're actually interested in discussing this objectively, please just listen to this example (and extend it to 5 additional characters because I am an alt-aholic):

For the first 13 levels I had various outfits of cloth armor on my sorcerer. They were ALL various shades of GREEN, every piece. The day before yesterday, I reached level 14. In preparation for 15, and heading out to the next tier of zones, I crafted my level 14 set of cloth armor made from 3 different style motifs and purposefully added traits and improvements in a conscious effort to attempt to, at the very least, change the monotonous color scheme.

So you might imagine that I was very excited to discover that, while the very simple designs of the style motifs had stayed the same as they ever were (and I was not at all discouraged by this), all of my new pieces of level 14 cloth armor came out a light but muted shade of BLUE! Woohoo! No more tiresome green robes for 13 more levels! YAY! No, not truly sarcasm, I was actually very happy, and the only thing I had received were blue gear pieces instead of drab green.

So you might also imagine that when I logged in last evening after the update had completed, I was VERY disappointed to find out that my entire outfit, every piece..........had all returned to GREEN! I <expletive> you not, my friend. Then, in addition to this disappointment over a simple color change, I come to learn that this very well may be my experience for the next several tiers of levels as well.

Blue vs. Green. I am not over-, nor under-, exaggerating. That's all this is about. That's all I had, and was perfectly content with it. My experience is apparently mirrored across all 50 pre-Vet levels, merely remove "blue" or "green" and replace either or both with "brown" or "whatever simple, solid color."

I think it's safe to say it went back to looking worse, or at the very least, boringly monotonous, and so, well, worse. This is not the petty ***-fest all of you happy high-tier players would like it to be. While you guys sit pretty with your fancy armors, all we want is a little freaking variety of freaking color, thank you very much. And now, even that has been taken from us.

Have at least some mild consideration, why don't ya? We're all players that love this game. If you're happy, great, go be happy. I am perfectly happy for you high level players with your shiny new fancy suits. Seriously! But please allow us visually monotonous lowbies our attempt to get back what little scrap of bone, and I mean little scrap, we had been tossed before this update in peace if you're not going to support what we thought was clearly a justified challenge to a seemingly unfair and unannounced nerf of our very simple low level armor color-schemes.

Because whether you believe it or not, that is all we want. You can keep your gold trims and iridescent highlights, etc. etc. All I want are muted blue cloth pieces for just awhile, instead of the drab green that I may now be forced to look at for untold more levels. That is all I want. That is all we're asking for. That is all we thought we were asking for.

Thanks.

Heraclea

In game, I always just wear the Forebear disguise from Alik'r Desert anyways.

(I am slightly surprised that the disguises continue to work in Cyrodiil, as well; but then again I've always thought that concealing your class and gear level would make PvP more fun.)

(What I really want is a Wyress disguise.)

Catflinger

Khandi wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

FYI dyes are coming next few patches so this is all moot

Dyes!!??!! OMG! Add in a AH and ESO will be nothing but a WoW clone!!

There are no armor dyes in WoW. Never have been. No idea where this comment comes from.

yodased

Well of course anything posted in opinion will be biased. I am not incorrect in the fact that this was designed this way.

Unfortunately, you got to see what the higher level armors looked like before you got there and you are now jaded by "losing" something that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.

The players that come along after you and never got to see what awaits them will not have the same complaints.

Honestly I am the minority in that I don't really care what my armor looks like, I will gladly wear armor of paper bag if it keeps me alive longer.

RianaTheBosmer

yodased wrote: »

We can subjectively compare and contrast what we feel is 'better' and what 'low' and 'high' armor looks like all day. The fact of the matter is the people who created the armor did so purposefully. Those same designers realized it wasn't working as intended and fixed it. What we feel looks better or worse is inconsequential to the discussion.

It isn't inconsequential when people start leaving in hordes like they did in SWTOR and they are doing it here too. Why make things worse? It doesn't help ZOS in the slightest to screw up the game any more than it was before. I love to play the game but I too am getting sick of the screwups by the dev team. They should be addressing the crap storm that's happening, instead we hear nothing.

Omnevolus

yodased wrote: »

Unfortunately, you got to see what the higher level armors looked like before you got there and you are now jaded by "losing" something that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.

Really? After just explaining that I'm talking about muted plain blue instead of green? Now I know you're just being difficult, probably cause you already committed your ego to a hasty opinion. Quit with the crap. Sure, you may have been right about a very small portion of textures, but to insist that blue vs. green is an unjustified complaint because, and this is what you're suggesting, "blue" is reserved for high levels, is patently ridiculous. Go ahead, snowball your egotistical shoe-eating, bud. I won't stop you. I've said quite enough for anyone to know that the other, vast majority of lowbies, got screwed. Adults admit when they made a mistake, and move on. Please do the same.