Deconstructing reconstructed items does NOT return all upgrade mats

Altyrann

From some quick testing on PTS I got back only 25 crystals (in line with Rob Garrett's clarification on the forum recently) but I also got none of the upgrade mats I used back, which seems to directly contradict the information from the stream.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - any chance of clarification on whether this is a bug on PTS or a reflection of the intended system? If current PTS is the intended version will drastically reduce the usefulness of the system, particularly for jewellery where the cost of upgrade mats is so high.

MincVinyl

Might be worth testing to see if you get back the enchant mats aswell

Pevey

I was thinking he misspoke on the stream if you compare what he said to what actually happened when he deconned. It is totally understandable, there was so much material to cover.

I was actually hoping he misspoke because otherwise it would make the economy completely dead and pointless for mats. Once everyone had enough for all their alts to have 4-5 sets at once, there would be no need every for anymore except demand from new players.

Returning the full amount of transmute crystals (for a fully collected set) was a good call, though. There is no player economy for those.

Altyrann

MincVinyl wrote: »

Might be worth testing to see if you get back the enchant mats aswell

I was testing a few things so only did this bit very briefly. I twice created a Robe of Mother's Sorrow in Legendary quality and then deconstructed, once with no skill points in Clothing and once with Unraveling maxed out. In both cases I got back only the 25 crystals.

Altyrann

Pevey wrote: »

I was thinking he misspoke on the stream if you compare what he said to what actually happened when he deconned. It is totally understandable, there was so much material to cover.

I was actually hoping he misspoke because otherwise it would make the economy completely dead and pointless for mats. Once everyone had enough for all their alts to have 4-5 sets at once, there would be no need every for anymore except demand from new players.

Returning the full amount of transmute crystals (for a fully collected set) was a god call, though. There is no player economy for those.

I was personally hoping for the opposite given a silly number of alts with far too many sets each, but in either case would be good to see some clarity on what the intent is, particularly given that the clarification post a couple of days back only mentioned the crystals and didn't suggest that the stream comments on refunding of all mats were otherwise incorrect.

jetplane_18

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6955609#Comment_6955609

Patch notes also clarify it.

Altyrann

jetplane_18 wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6955609#Comment_6955609

Patch notes also clarify it.

While my hope may be otherwise, my assumption is that patch notes / PTS are more likely the current view given recency and QA processes compared to live streaming and forum posting, but given we have conflicting information from different official sources it seemed worth asking the question, particularly with patch notes not mentioning upgrade mats one way or the other. If I had to guess, I'd assume that means it's ONLY the 25 crystals.

MashmalloMan

Pretty big shame but if you think about it, how would it know how much you spent on improvement mats to reconstruct an item. You have an option to choose less than 100% chance on improvement, should it just give you the full valued amount of 8 tempers on a body gold piece for example if you tested your luck and won with 5? I imagine that could end up becoming a larger concern, being able to toy with RNG to produce free tempers.

That being said.. I guess it's a risk you'd have to be willing to take and as it stands, in the 6 years of ESO I have never, not even once, risked my item by not upgrading with all tempers for 100% chance.

IDK what they could do, but it is very dissapointing.

Altyrann

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Pretty big shame but if you think about it, how would it know how much you spent on improvement mats to reconstruct an item. You have an option to choose less than 100% chance on improvement, should it just give you the full valued amount of 8 tempers on a body gold piece for example if you tested your luck and won with 5? I imagine that could end up becoming a larger concern, being able to toy with RNG to produce free tempers.

That being said.. I guess it's a risk you'd have to be willing to take and as it stands, in the 6 years of ESO I have never, not even once, risked my item by not upgrading with all tempers for 100% chance.

IDK what they could do, but it is very dissapointing.

In the same way they give 25 crystals back so it is a full refund only if you have a full set collected you could also make it give only, for example, 8 Dreugh Wax so it's a full refund only for a master clothier etc.

Atherakhia

Yea, this kind of makes the whole ordeal more or less useless. The main reason I had any interest in this was to provide me more storage space. But now, if an item is already purple or gold, there's no reason to decon it now because the costs associated with reconstructing items to that level are simply too expensive and especially prohibitive to newer players. I don't know about you all, but I don't have hundreds of zircon and stuff lying around. Me upgrading a blue to purple is a pretty big deal. To gold is basically unheard of.

While a full refund of all mats would be too much, I do feel a substantial number of them should be refunded. Certainly if it's going to take me 4 Chomium, it would be nice to get back more than 1 dust.

Nairinhe

Atherakhia wrote: »

Yea, this kind of makes the whole ordeal more or less useless.

I would really really love to be able just craft a second ring or 1H instead of farming.

ArchangelIsraphel

Atherakhia wrote: »

Yea, this kind of makes the whole ordeal more or less useless. The main reason I had any interest in this was to provide me more storage space. But now, if an item is already purple or gold, there's no reason to decon it now because the costs associated with reconstructing items to that level are simply too expensive and especially prohibitive to newer players. I don't know about you all, but I don't have hundreds of zircon and stuff lying around. Me upgrading a blue to purple is a pretty big deal. To gold is basically unheard of.

While a full refund of all mats would be too much, I do feel a substantial number of them should be refunded. Certainly if it's going to take me 4 Chomium, it would be nice to get back more than 1 dust.

This right here. It isn't an inventory saver at all. If you ask me, they should have just given us a "set storage" function in the collection menu, where sets can be equipped the same way clothing/costumes can, by clicking "equip" to swap out. They could make the system work for individual characters, so that you would still need to craft another set or whatever for a new character (but not BIND the pieces to the character so you could still remove them from it and pass them through the bank to an alt, to then be re-added to their menu)

Now that truly would have made it an amazing feature.

This reconstruction thing seems an arbitrary and useless waste of mats when it could have been utilized as a true storage function.

MashmalloMan

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Yea, this kind of makes the whole ordeal more or less useless. The main reason I had any interest in this was to provide me more storage space. But now, if an item is already purple or gold, there's no reason to decon it now because the costs associated with reconstructing items to that level are simply too expensive and especially prohibitive to newer players. I don't know about you all, but I don't have hundreds of zircon and stuff lying around. Me upgrading a blue to purple is a pretty big deal. To gold is basically unheard of.

While a full refund of all mats would be too much, I do feel a substantial number of them should be refunded. Certainly if it's going to take me 4 Chomium, it would be nice to get back more than 1 dust.

This right here. It isn't an inventory saver at all. If you ask me, they should have just given us a "set storage" function in the collection menu, where sets can be equipped the same way clothing/costumes can, by clicking "equip" to swap out. They could make the system work for individual characters, so that you would still need to craft another set or whatever for a new character (but not BIND the pieces to the character so you could still remove them from it and pass them through the bank to an alt, to then be re-added to their menu)

Now that truly would have made it an amazing feature.

This reconstruction thing seems an arbitrary and useless waste of mats when it could have been utilized as a true storage function.

I wouldn't say it's useless.. this is basically a nice way to outfit alts or grab gear you've found in the past that you found useless, like lets say Medusa's big change recently, that you're now interested in creating. You collect the gear once and then you're able to manufacture the same gear again and again for different toons. It cuts your farming time into nothing, especially if you consider what your collection will look like after years of playing the game.

I'm starting to see it as more of an extension of the current transmute system, kinda like a token system people have been asking for. Eg.. You earn a special currency to create gear, instead of being forced to wait for a drop.

They made it clear this isn't really a storage system in the stream.

I'd still like to see a refund on mats, if they can't do 100% because of the above issue I raised, at least do 100% of the trait material used and 50% for tempers.

Altyrann

My excitement about this has definitely dropped a lot since seeing how this works currently on PTS. I'm definitely not sitting on enough gold to want to write off hundreds of thousands or even millions of gold of mats to free up inventory space.

That said it will still be useful for those items I am holding and never golded because they've never quite ended up at the top of the list of any of the set shuffles. It will just be s much more limited use case than it might have been.

Waffennacht

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Yea, this kind of makes the whole ordeal more or less useless. The main reason I had any interest in this was to provide me more storage space. But now, if an item is already purple or gold, there's no reason to decon it now because the costs associated with reconstructing items to that level are simply too expensive and especially prohibitive to newer players. I don't know about you all, but I don't have hundreds of zircon and stuff lying around. Me upgrading a blue to purple is a pretty big deal. To gold is basically unheard of.

While a full refund of all mats would be too much, I do feel a substantial number of them should be refunded. Certainly if it's going to take me 4 Chomium, it would be nice to get back more than 1 dust.

This right here. It isn't an inventory saver at all. If you ask me, they should have just given us a "set storage" function in the collection menu, where sets can be equipped the same way clothing/costumes can, by clicking "equip" to swap out. They could make the system work for individual characters, so that you would still need to craft another set or whatever for a new character (but not BIND the pieces to the character so you could still remove them from it and pass them through the bank to an alt, to then be re-added to their menu)

Now that truly would have made it an amazing feature.

This reconstruction thing seems an arbitrary and useless waste of mats when it could have been utilized as a true storage function.

I wouldn't say it's useless.. this is basically a nice way to outfit alts or grab gear you've found in the past that you found useless, like lets say Medusa's big change recently, that you're now interested in creating. You collect the gear once and then you're able to manufacture the same gear again and again for different toons. It cuts your farming time into nothing, especially if you consider what your collection will look like after years of playing the game.

I'm starting to see it as more of an extension of the current transmute system, kinda like a token system people have been asking for. Eg.. You earn a special currency to create gear, instead of being forced to wait for a drop.

They made it clear this isn't really a storage system in the stream.

I'd still like to see a refund on mats, if they can't do 100% because of the above issue I raised, at least do 100% of the trait material used and 50% for tempers.

But if you're already just switching the armor between tons, this only saves you a little bit of time?

So, if I found a piece of armor and held onto it, then decide to swap between characters, im not being saved any space with this system?

Atherakhia

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Yea, this kind of makes the whole ordeal more or less useless. The main reason I had any interest in this was to provide me more storage space. But now, if an item is already purple or gold, there's no reason to decon it now because the costs associated with reconstructing items to that level are simply too expensive and especially prohibitive to newer players. I don't know about you all, but I don't have hundreds of zircon and stuff lying around. Me upgrading a blue to purple is a pretty big deal. To gold is basically unheard of.

While a full refund of all mats would be too much, I do feel a substantial number of them should be refunded. Certainly if it's going to take me 4 Chomium, it would be nice to get back more than 1 dust.

This right here. It isn't an inventory saver at all. If you ask me, they should have just given us a "set storage" function in the collection menu, where sets can be equipped the same way clothing/costumes can, by clicking "equip" to swap out. They could make the system work for individual characters, so that you would still need to craft another set or whatever for a new character (but not BIND the pieces to the character so you could still remove them from it and pass them through the bank to an alt, to then be re-added to their menu)

Now that truly would have made it an amazing feature.

This reconstruction thing seems an arbitrary and useless waste of mats when it could have been utilized as a true storage function.

I wouldn't say it's useless.. this is basically a nice way to outfit alts or grab gear you've found in the past that you found useless, like lets say Medusa's big change recently, that you're now interested in creating. You collect the gear once and then you're able to manufacture the same gear again and again for different toons. It cuts your farming time into nothing, especially if you consider what your collection will look like after years of playing the game.

I'm starting to see it as more of an extension of the current transmute system, kinda like a token system people have been asking for. Eg.. You earn a special currency to create gear, instead of being forced to wait for a drop.

They made it clear this isn't really a storage system in the stream.

I'd still like to see a refund on mats, if they can't do 100% because of the above issue I raised, at least do 100% of the trait material used and 50% for tempers.

While you're technically correct, the way loot works in this game basically means we don't need to have multiple sets of the same gear. Swapping gear between toons is quire easy and, at least for PC, managing what gear is where is trivial. You are right that it's nice to decon gear that was nerfed this patch and when they buff it 6 months from now I don't need to refarm it, but a largescale system like that to solve a problem with cyclical nerfing/buffing isn't needed.

This really is a trivial change in my opinion and I hate thinking about what could have been if this wasn't done. But that's just my opinion.

CaffeinatedMayhem

For me, it saves storage of sets I've kept, because they may become useful again in the future. Gear from difficult dungeons/trials, monster masks I'm not currently using, but since I have almost every permutation of build, might be useful in the future. That will save me space.

I'm split on the mats costs. For armor, meh. While I generally only gold PvP gear, this doesn't seem that big of a deal breaker. The gold mats cost for weapons isn't a deal breaker to me. OTOH... I am slightly upset that I'll still be storing lots of jewelry, both purple and gold.

Waffennacht

The only help i see, is getting a single ring, then being able to manufactor the other without farming. This was stated above, same with 1h, but meh.

I dont see any space being saved, because if I wanna use the item, ill still have to have the slot available. Either its taking up a slot now, or it'll take up a slot later, either way that slots gotta be open

Atherakhia

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

For me, it saves storage of sets I've kept, because they may become useful again in the future. Gear from difficult dungeons/trials, monster masks I'm not currently using, but since I have almost every permutation of build, might be useful in the future. That will save me space.

I'm split on the mats costs. For armor, meh. While I generally only gold PvP gear, this doesn't seem that big of a deal breaker. The gold mats cost for weapons isn't a deal breaker to me. OTOH... I am slightly upset that I'll still be storing lots of jewelry, both purple and gold.

Right. The real benefit imo is really with the monster helms and shoulders. I don't need to keep 9 of each helm and I certainly don't need to play russian roulette with the shoulders. Just buy 1, decon it, and reconstruct the one I want etc.

MashmalloMan

Waffennacht wrote: »

The only help i see, is getting a single ring, then being able to manufactor the other without farming. This was stated above, same with 1h, but meh.

I dont see any space being saved, because if I wanna use the item, ill still have to have the slot available. Either its taking up a slot now, or it'll take up a slot later, either way that slots gotta be open

If you're like me.. I've saved up my 400+ bank slots with items I MAY use for a build 1 day. For example, I've been saving a bunch of ice themed gear, waiting for a time when I feel like I can make an ice warden DD and actually feel strong doing it. It's been a dissapointing few years, but that gear continues to sit in my bank for that day.

Same goes for Monster sets.

With the transmute cap of 1000 and increased, reliable pve drop rates for cyrstals, I can now decon that purple/blue armor in 10 different traits I've been saving to just make them when I'm actually ready to use them. It's also not necessary to farm the proper trait when you get most of the set, because reconstructing the piece you like in the trait you want will cost less than it would to transmute something.

I forsee my bank being reduced to consumables and jewelry, but body armor and weapons in purple or lower I'm going to decon pretty much right away.

MashmalloMan

Atherakhia wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

For me, it saves storage of sets I've kept, because they may become useful again in the future. Gear from difficult dungeons/trials, monster masks I'm not currently using, but since I have almost every permutation of build, might be useful in the future. That will save me space.

I'm split on the mats costs. For armor, meh. While I generally only gold PvP gear, this doesn't seem that big of a deal breaker. The gold mats cost for weapons isn't a deal breaker to me. OTOH... I am slightly upset that I'll still be storing lots of jewelry, both purple and gold.

Right. The real benefit imo is really with the monster helms and shoulders. I don't need to keep 9 of each helm and I certainly don't need to play russian roulette with the shoulders. Just buy 1, decon it, and reconstruct the one I want etc.

Haven't gone on yet, are you aware if the armor weight needs to be obtained to craft the armor weight you want?

For example, if I collect and bind a Medium Shoulder, can I then reconstruct a Heavy Shoulder? That would be game changing!

stefj68

i dont pvp, so transmute crystals are rare for me... paying 75 to create a pieces and getting back 25 seems unfair, i tought when i saw the live streams that it was refunding all the mats you use including tempers.... if not this is a worth time of farming sets to reduce the cost if we loose tempers and enchantments on pieces each times...

would have been more fun to just be able to bank items in its current shape, trasmuted, golden with enchantment and give us the opportunity to withdraw it in a future removing it from the book... that would be a real space saver

but im sure my comment wont be taken into consideration till update u32

thanks

Dusk_Coven

Not returning 100% of the materials involved is probably from piggybacking off the existing deconstruction system.
I bet you they use the created-from-collections trait to guarantee 25 transmute crystals and the rest of the code is whatever you get from deconstruction RNG.

The system really mainly benefits people who haven't collected multiple pieces yet since with a single piece of any trait they can rubberstamp out whatever piece in whatever trait they need. The system isn't primarily a storage saver -- it's a grind saver. Without it, assuming you want to gear up a bunch of alts, realistically you're getting separate pieces for each alt instead of moving them back and forth between alts.

If you have a lot of pieces already, then it's sunk cost and you decide if you want storage space (which would probably get filled up by other junk once you make space) or you think you're actually going to use all those idle set pieces. If you get frequent use from them you wouldn't decon them anyway and they'd stay in storage.

Pevey

This system is zos’s early Christmas present to us. That plus the transmute sourcing and limit changes. Try to imagine it in practice and how many hours of farming will be saved. Find one bad-trait inferno staff of BSW, and boom, now you can reconstruct more in the trait you want for all of your alts who want one. And at a cost of 25 crystals each (best case if set is complete). AND if you change your mind? You get the crystals back. AND crystals will be easier to get than ever. As Voltaire said, the perfect is the enemy of the good. I for one absolutely cannot wait for this very very very good system to drop in U28.

idk

I see value in that I do not have to store a bunch of sets that I will probably never use. That is most of what is in my inventory. For items I regularly use or even use from time to time it will not help.

Basically, it ends our reasons for hoarding gear.

AlnilamE

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

For me, it saves storage of sets I've kept, because they may become useful again in the future. Gear from difficult dungeons/trials, monster masks I'm not currently using, but since I have almost every permutation of build, might be useful in the future. That will save me space.

I'm split on the mats costs. For armor, meh. While I generally only gold PvP gear, this doesn't seem that big of a deal breaker. The gold mats cost for weapons isn't a deal breaker to me. OTOH... I am slightly upset that I'll still be storing lots of jewelry, both purple and gold.

Right. The real benefit imo is really with the monster helms and shoulders. I don't need to keep 9 of each helm and I certainly don't need to play russian roulette with the shoulders. Just buy 1, decon it, and reconstruct the one I want etc.

Haven't gone on yet, are you aware if the armor weight needs to be obtained to craft the armor weight you want?

For example, if I collect and bind a Medium Shoulder, can I then reconstruct a Heavy Shoulder? That would be game changing!

Monster sets have entries for all 3 weights, so you cannot reconstruct something you have not collected.

Recapitated

It makes crappy monster set shoulder drops less of a disappointment, because once you get the weight you want you can either transmute it for 50 or recon it for anywhere between 25 and 75 AND 25 of those stones are not permanently lost should the monster set get nerfed directly or indirectly. Same with the head piece, if you happen to have the wrong trait. In total you might only need 50 transmute stones and you can get them back later.

Waffennacht

I swap the set between characters and only keep the bis trait

Im betting the majority of the player base is like me

Epona222

It did sound on the stream as if we would get ALL our mats back (and 25 crystals) for decon, but as others have said, this is not the case - I tried a few replicated items that had been produced at gold quality at the transmute station and got no mats back from any of them when deconning. So currently better off to replicate an item at the lowest level and upgrade it at a normal workbench, which gives the usual chance at a temper along with the 25 transmutes (still a long way from what was suggested in the stream, which did say "you get all your mats back")

luen79rwb17_ESO

Then there's not much incentive to this crap, wth only the crystals back? What's the point? Those are soooo recycable we manage to keep the flow of crystals going with a short 100/200 cap

merevie

I am comfortable with this for clothing sets that are currently useless or irrelevant for builds but are hard to obtain.
I've never golded that stuff so no big.

Old gold sets that have been nerfed aren't too numerous to not fit in my house boxes.

This change will be enough to clear up the bank/boxes/alt toon that are hoarding.

I only have jewelry and weapons in my bank, and I never decon the auto bound ones just in case. Too much pain when one does that lol.

Looking forward to this change. Only concern is that pvers have the same opportunity for transmutation stones as pvpers.