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Champion System Clarification

  • Ysne58
    Ysne58
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    Why did they reduce the total points from 14,400 to 3600?
  • Harleyquincey
    Harleyquincey
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    Thank you for the clarification. Obviously I don't mind since well, I'm a VR 14 and despite having completed almost every single quest and sidequest, I of course realize that there's still plenty of things which award quite a lot of EXP, like doing veteran dungeons, PvP or Trials plus the new adventure zone coming up fairly soon as well.

    I've read some posts in this thread and it's how it always was, no worries ZOS. Some people will indeed leave the game for this and go to another MMO where they will encounter the exact same thing with the first rehaul of the endgame. Like.. it was in SW:TOR for example. Entire tiers of gear get completely outdated every 2-3 big updates and at first players felt cheated and whatnot and some had spent a lot of time farming for gear just before the next patch went up and made that very gear lowbie gear. The next time they did this, there was already almost not a single ragepost. Why? Because those easily offended left at the first time and the more experienced players remained, knowing this is simply how it is in MMOs. You don't have a guarantee that...

    a) ...your build remains useful forever
    b) ...your itemization remains superb forever
    c) ...your skill routines remain useful forever
    d) ...your perceived truth is how it'll be in the end
    e) ...every single word can be put to the test (since stuff changes! Oh snap!)
    and finally
    f) ...you get what you want.

    This is how MMOs are. You will encounter changes you love. You will encounter changes you hate. If you cannot cope with that, look for a Non-MMO title.

    I've been around in MMOs since 1999, go figure if I care about starting with the same amount of CP or not (read: not the slightest). Actually I'm amazed we even get a single one. This is contrary to how it is pretty much everywhere else.

    So... good job and thanks for the little headstart, wasn't all that necessary but I feel appreciated ;)
    Edited by Harleyquincey on 23 December 2014 09:05
    EU Server
    Clavius Lydoris Probus - Imperial Dragonknight Tank
    Co-Founder of [Black Manticore Brigade]
    Proud member of [Sigma Draconis] and [House Zar]
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    If I understand this correctly, hitting VR1 the day before 1.6 hits Live will net you the same 30 Champion Points as someone who has been VR14 for several months already?

    Eh?
  • Tonnopesce
    Tonnopesce
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    so the most people here don't play this game because they like to play eso, this is no "nice time spending" for you?? so the reason why you play this game is what?? be the best at something so that you can brag about it?? you're really pathetic if you think all those hours playing eso was a waste of time. why did you even started playing this game in the first place?? and why would you stop playing the game now?? nobody's earning champion points, everybody is treated equal. and Champion system isn't the whole game!! it isn't the whole char. progression!!! stats aren't everything, you have to be a good player to :blush:

    Hi
    I'm not telling that i've not enjoied the game till now it was awesome but from this point on is worthless to play with a max level since you cannot make any progression.
    I usually like in games to earn a "cookie" after tons of hours spended inside the game, the cookie in this game is end game: i love to do difficult content is my bread and butter since july and i'm not complaining but now that i know how ch sistem is i will not spend more time on my max level and try to get 1 vr1 per class
    Try to be the best in someting is challenging and fun and you can archive this only when you are a max level into a mmo but since in a mont i will be as powerful (or a little more) as a vr1 i can spend my time in other ways.

    You are supposing that your way to spend time in game is the right way gz i was talking for myself.


    And sorry little snowflake be treated equal is not pretend to give the same pay to a person who work hard 10 hours a day and to a person who work meh 6 hours
    Edited by Tonnopesce on 23 December 2014 09:21
    Signature


  • Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Unlikely_Ghostbuster
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    So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.



    The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.
    That question never cross my mind because I do not feel cheated because what I did was not a waste of time because I still will be doing that in the future. I did not believe that "tracked xp" thus I was never lied too.

    I have a character that has a lot items and time put into him and he is not going away by update 6. So why should I consider him a waste of time? He actually is getting better after this update. I am not going disregard him as a waste of time because of ZOS or because of some unknown player consider it a waste of time. I am not going to unsubscribe just because some game developer supposedly lied to me. Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

    So, just to clarify, you're saying that because you "never believed" ZOS would keep their word, you don't feel you were deceived. Are you sure you're not allowing the hindsight fairy to sprinkle retroactive justification dust in your ear?

    Sorry, but your feelings on the matter aren't universalized to the rest of us. It's like saying your spouse's adultery is Ok because you *expected* the infidelity, despite any marriage vows you may have heard to the contrary.

    ZOS conned us into playing through the autumn and winter to fund the development of the Champion and Justice Systems. I've unsubscribed (just did it -- 44 days of playtime remaining) because I don't tolerate being manipulated.

    None of the reasons they've offered, so far, explain why they've gone back on their word *other* than the one I've given. They changed the how valuable each point is and rescaled how many points? Then they should rescale the alleged Champion Point conversion rate as well as the cap to accommodate those changes. It's just math. No reason to renege on the promise to track XP and award Champion Points, accordingly.

    Nobody who is presumably alright with ZOS breaking their word can offer any reason for it -- all they can say is "Well, this isn't enough to make me quit, yet."

    ZOS needs to come up with a solution or else they'll lose more than just my subscription. This non-answer from @ZOS_GinaBruno doesn't work. Your claim to have clairvoyantly predicted this doesn't work, either. ZOS keeping their word, however -- that would work.

    There has not yet been a valid reason given as to why they *can't* keep their word. That's why I have ended my subscription.
    I guess you did not pay attention to what I type. I just answer your question which is in bold and of course my feelings are not universalized neither is yours. I never said that. I gave you a reason why this did not bother me. Your comparison is not valid because of what I said in bold. I have been play this game since one of the betas in February. I understand what is going on pretty well and I am presumably alright and I gave you a reason why. I am sorry that I am not devastated as you are and not everybody feels that way. I am also sorry that I not going to waste my money by unsubbing when I still have time left.

    (a) Unsubscribing does not mean you lose time you've already paid for. I have 44 days left to play, but I'm unsubscribed. In 44 days, my credit card will not be drafted to renew my subscription. I have not lost a dime.

    (b) It's hard to follow some of your language. Charitably speaking, your English is a bit broken. I'm assuming the given reason you're talking about is this:
    Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

    Even looking at it again, now, it still makes zero sense. Sorry. You're giving ZOS the green-light to lie unabashedly to you in the future -- that much I get -- but you did not tell me why. To quote a famous liar, "Corporations are people too, my friend" -- lots of people, in fact. So no, I do not understand why you're peachy-keen about the dishonesty.
  • jeevin
    jeevin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Greetings Jeevin,

    This email is to inform you that your subscription has expired. You have no more game time on your account and you will be unable to access the game. Please click this link to set up a new subscription to continue playing.

    Please print this email and keep it for your records.
    Warm Regards,
    The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

    Who wants my stuff? I got heaps of it!
  • Tonnopesce
    Tonnopesce
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    If I understand this correctly, hitting VR1 the day before 1.6 hits Live will net you the same 30 Champion Points as someone who has been VR14 for several months already?

    Eh?

    Basically........yes
    Signature


  • Tonnopesce
    Tonnopesce
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jeevin wrote: »
    Greetings Jeevin,

    This email is to inform you that your subscription has expired. You have no more game time on your account and you will be unable to access the game. Please click this link to set up a new subscription to continue playing.

    Please print this email and keep it for your records.
    Warm Regards,
    The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

    Who wants my stuff? I got heaps of it!


    First!!!!!
    Signature


  • Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    ✭✭✭✭
    jeevin wrote: »
    Greetings Jeevin,

    This email is to inform you that your subscription has expired. You have no more game time on your account and you will be unable to access the game. Please click this link to set up a new subscription to continue playing.

    Please print this email and keep it for your records.
    Warm Regards,
    The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

    Who wants my stuff? I got heaps of it!


    First!!!!!

    LOL -- You're more optimistic about ZOS doing right by us in the long term than I am, my friend. I haven't even bothered checking my hireling emails since Friday evening.
    Edited by Unlikely_Ghostbuster on 23 December 2014 09:47
  • Nazon_Katts
    Nazon_Katts
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jeevin wrote: »
    Greetings Jeevin,

    This email is to inform you that your subscription has expired. You have no more game time on your account and you will be unable to access the game. Please click this link to set up a new subscription to continue playing.

    Please print this email and keep it for your records.
    Warm Regards,
    The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

    Who wants my stuff? I got heaps of it!


    First!!!!!

    First Who? There's a couple of them: @First_Citizen @First_Isab14_ESO @first_emperor @First_x_Slayer ...
    "You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"
  • Darkonflare15
    Darkonflare15
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    So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.



    The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.
    That question never cross my mind because I do not feel cheated because what I did was not a waste of time because I still will be doing that in the future. I did not believe that "tracked xp" thus I was never lied too.

    I have a character that has a lot items and time put into him and he is not going away by update 6. So why should I consider him a waste of time? He actually is getting better after this update. I am not going disregard him as a waste of time because of ZOS or because of some unknown player consider it a waste of time. I am not going to unsubscribe just because some game developer supposedly lied to me. Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

    So, just to clarify, you're saying that because you "never believed" ZOS would keep their word, you don't feel you were deceived. Are you sure you're not allowing the hindsight fairy to sprinkle retroactive justification dust in your ear?

    Sorry, but your feelings on the matter aren't universalized to the rest of us. It's like saying your spouse's adultery is Ok because you *expected* the infidelity, despite any marriage vows you may have heard to the contrary.

    ZOS conned us into playing through the autumn and winter to fund the development of the Champion and Justice Systems. I've unsubscribed (just did it -- 44 days of playtime remaining) because I don't tolerate being manipulated.

    None of the reasons they've offered, so far, explain why they've gone back on their word *other* than the one I've given. They changed the how valuable each point is and rescaled how many points? Then they should rescale the alleged Champion Point conversion rate as well as the cap to accommodate those changes. It's just math. No reason to renege on the promise to track XP and award Champion Points, accordingly.

    Nobody who is presumably alright with ZOS breaking their word can offer any reason for it -- all they can say is "Well, this isn't enough to make me quit, yet."

    ZOS needs to come up with a solution or else they'll lose more than just my subscription. This non-answer from @ZOS_GinaBruno doesn't work. Your claim to have clairvoyantly predicted this doesn't work, either. ZOS keeping their word, however -- that would work.

    There has not yet been a valid reason given as to why they *can't* keep their word. That's why I have ended my subscription.
    I guess you did not pay attention to what I type. I just answer your question which is in bold and of course my feelings are not universalized neither is yours. I never said that. I gave you a reason why this did not bother me. Your comparison is not valid because of what I said in bold. I have been play this game since one of the betas in February. I understand what is going on pretty well and I am presumably alright and I gave you a reason why. I am sorry that I am not devastated as you are and not everybody feels that way. I am also sorry that I not going to waste my money by unsubbing when I still have time left.

    (a) Unsubscribing does not mean you lose time you've already paid for. I have 44 days left to play, but I'm unsubscribed. In 44 days, my credit card will not be drafted to renew my subscription. I have not lost a dime.

    (b) It's hard to follow some of your language. Charitably speaking, your English is a bit broken. I'm assuming the given reason you're talking about is this:
    Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

    Even looking at it again, now, it still makes zero sense. Sorry. You're giving ZOS the green-light to lie unabashedly to you in the future -- that much I get -- but you did not tell me why. To quote a famous liar, "Corporations are people too, my friend" -- lots of people, in fact. So no, I do not understand why you're peachy-keen about the dishonesty.

    I am not giving them the the green light to do anything. Since I cannot stop from doing anything anyway. Unsubcribing does nothing at all. All it shows is that you tired of a game that you consider is not worth your time but it wasted your time. Thus you gave up. I am stating that this" lie" did not effect me at all thus I am not giving up. What is so hard to understand ?
  • Darkonflare15
    Darkonflare15
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    Ysne58 wrote: »
    Why did they reduce the total points from 14,400 to 3600?

    Because know one could see a progression with that many points. Meaning people would consider it not worth their time to use the champion system.
  • jeevin
    jeevin
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    So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.



    The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.
    That question never cross my mind because I do not feel cheated because what I did was not a waste of time because I still will be doing that in the future. I did not believe that "tracked xp" thus I was never lied too.

    I have a character that has a lot items and time put into him and he is not going away by update 6. So why should I consider him a waste of time? He actually is getting better after this update. I am not going disregard him as a waste of time because of ZOS or because of some unknown player consider it a waste of time. I am not going to unsubscribe just because some game developer supposedly lied to me. Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

    So, just to clarify, you're saying that because you "never believed" ZOS would keep their word, you don't feel you were deceived. Are you sure you're not allowing the hindsight fairy to sprinkle retroactive justification dust in your ear?

    Sorry, but your feelings on the matter aren't universalized to the rest of us. It's like saying your spouse's adultery is Ok because you *expected* the infidelity, despite any marriage vows you may have heard to the contrary.

    ZOS conned us into playing through the autumn and winter to fund the development of the Champion and Justice Systems. I've unsubscribed (just did it -- 44 days of playtime remaining) because I don't tolerate being manipulated.

    None of the reasons they've offered, so far, explain why they've gone back on their word *other* than the one I've given. They changed the how valuable each point is and rescaled how many points? Then they should rescale the alleged Champion Point conversion rate as well as the cap to accommodate those changes. It's just math. No reason to renege on the promise to track XP and award Champion Points, accordingly.

    Nobody who is presumably alright with ZOS breaking their word can offer any reason for it -- all they can say is "Well, this isn't enough to make me quit, yet."

    ZOS needs to come up with a solution or else they'll lose more than just my subscription. This non-answer from @ZOS_GinaBruno doesn't work. Your claim to have clairvoyantly predicted this doesn't work, either. ZOS keeping their word, however -- that would work.

    There has not yet been a valid reason given as to why they *can't* keep their word. That's why I have ended my subscription.
    I guess you did not pay attention to what I type. I just answer your question which is in bold and of course my feelings are not universalized neither is yours. I never said that. I gave you a reason why this did not bother me. Your comparison is not valid because of what I said in bold. I have been play this game since one of the betas in February. I understand what is going on pretty well and I am presumably alright and I gave you a reason why. I am sorry that I am not devastated as you are and not everybody feels that way. I am also sorry that I not going to waste my money by unsubbing when I still have time left.

    (a) Unsubscribing does not mean you lose time you've already paid for. I have 44 days left to play, but I'm unsubscribed. In 44 days, my credit card will not be drafted to renew my subscription. I have not lost a dime.

    (b) It's hard to follow some of your language. Charitably speaking, your English is a bit broken. I'm assuming the given reason you're talking about is this:
    Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

    Even looking at it again, now, it still makes zero sense. Sorry. You're giving ZOS the green-light to lie unabashedly to you in the future -- that much I get -- but you did not tell me why. To quote a famous liar, "Corporations are people too, my friend" -- lots of people, in fact. So no, I do not understand why you're peachy-keen about the dishonesty.

    I am not giving them the the green light to do anything. Since I cannot stop from doing anything anyway. Unsubcribing does nothing at all. All it shows is that you tired of a game that you consider is not worth your time but it wasted your time. Thus you gave up. I am stating that this" lie" did not effect me at all thus I am not giving up. What is so hard to understand ?
    Un subscribers do more than show we're tired of the game. Enough players leave and ESO goes free to play and Zos downsizes, people lose jobs. Not good business to *** your customers.
  • Kaliki
    Kaliki
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    so the most people here don't play this game because they like to play eso, this is no "nice time spending" for you?? so the reason why you play this game is what?? be the best at something so that you can brag about it?? you're really pathetic if you think all those hours playing eso was a waste of time. why did you even started playing this game in the first place?? and why would you stop playing the game now?? nobody's earning champion points, everybody is treated equal. and Champion system isn't the whole game!! it isn't the whole char. progression!!! stats aren't everything, you have to be a good player to :blush:

    No, not everyone is being treated equally – this is the whole point. Players who have not finished the current content have an advantage (they are going to earn CP for everything they do from the start and will get more CP for time invested) over those who have played a lot and therefore reached most of their goals in the game (quests, achievements, skill line leveling – these all are things that are not repeatable on a given char).

    I am about to reach all my goals in the game soonish, so I would play much less in a month or two, but would still be doing just what is interesting to me or help guildmates. But this would mean every new player would pull ahead of me on CP which I think is not fair.

    It's the same as with the undaunted skill line: people who had little dungeon achievements could get the new passives really quickly while experienced players had completed all achievements and could only level by doing daily qs, which means at a much slower rate.

    I unsubbed, because I feel cheated and because ZOS rewards not playing the game – my time playing will be worth more if I would come back in a year.
    - Templars: Slower by Design® -
  • Tonnopesce
    Tonnopesce
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    jeevin wrote: »
    Greetings Jeevin,

    This email is to inform you that your subscription has expired. You have no more game time on your account and you will be unable to access the game. Please click this link to set up a new subscription to continue playing.

    Please print this email and keep it for your records.
    Warm Regards,
    The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

    Who wants my stuff? I got heaps of it!


    First!!!!!

    LOL -- You're more optimistic about ZOS doing right by us in the long term than I am, my friend. I haven't even bothered checking my hireling emails since Friday evening.

    Optimism is the spice of life my friend and btw except for eso wich pseudo medieval not corean stile not wow and with a gold graphic stile mmorpg i can choose?

    Signature


  • jeevin
    jeevin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jeevin wrote: »
    Greetings Jeevin,

    This email is to inform you that your subscription has expired. You have no more game time on your account and you will be unable to access the game. Please click this link to set up a new subscription to continue playing.

    Please print this email and keep it for your records.
    Warm Regards,
    The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

    Who wants my stuff? I got heaps of it!


    First!!!!!

    LOL -- You're more optimistic about ZOS doing right by us in the long term than I am, my friend. I haven't even bothered checking my hireling emails since Friday evening.

    Optimism is the spice of life my friend and btw except for eso wich pseudo medieval not corean stile not wow and with a gold graphic stile mmorpg i can choose?

    What does gold graphic stile mean? Then I'll help you choose ;)
  • Nacario
    Nacario
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    I forgive you ZOS IF you kiss my Ring of Mara
  • Tonnopesce
    Tonnopesce
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jeevin wrote: »
    jeevin wrote: »
    Greetings Jeevin,

    This email is to inform you that your subscription has expired. You have no more game time on your account and you will be unable to access the game. Please click this link to set up a new subscription to continue playing.

    Please print this email and keep it for your records.
    Warm Regards,
    The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

    Who wants my stuff? I got heaps of it!


    First!!!!!

    LOL -- You're more optimistic about ZOS doing right by us in the long term than I am, my friend. I haven't even bothered checking my hireling emails since Friday evening.

    Optimism is the spice of life my friend and btw except for eso wich pseudo medieval not corean stile not wow and with a gold graphic stile mmorpg i can choose?

    What does gold graphic stile mean? Then I'll help you choose ;)

    Lol good and lol the comment....i'm the one who want your stuff trust me this thing will not keep me away from the game i have to do the DB storyline and visit Murkmire befoure leaving so i will be here for another year or so.

    Fortunatly this game has the TES lore as background so zenimax has to do an enormous mistake to ruin the game and the ch sistem is not a big deal even if is the worst design choice till craplorn
    Signature


  • felinith66
    felinith66
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    Rosveen wrote: »
    If you're worried that values below or near 100 CP will create a huge divide between players... well, then I question the soundness of the whole system, because what will happen down the line when older and newer players are thousands of points apart?

    They're gonna reset it again so everyone is equal. They're gonna track the divide between players and if it gets too wide then, boom! Back to square one for everyone.
  • Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Unlikely_Ghostbuster
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    Thank you for the clarification. Obviously I don't mind since well, I'm a VR 14 and despite having completed almost every single quest and sidequest, I of course realize that there's still plenty of things which award quite a lot of EXP, like doing veteran dungeons, PvP or Trials plus the new adventure zone coming up fairly soon as well.

    I've read some posts in this thread and it's how it always was, no worries ZOS. Some people will indeed leave the game for this and go to another MMO where they will encounter the exact same thing with the first rehaul of the endgame. Like.. it was in SW:TOR for example. Entire tiers of gear get completely outdated every 2-3 big updates and at first players felt cheated and whatnot and some had spent a lot of time farming for gear just before the next patch went up and made that very gear lowbie gear. The next time they did this, there was already almost not a single ragepost. Why? Because those easily offended left at the first time and the more experienced players remained, knowing this is simply how it is in MMOs. You don't have a guarantee that...

    a) ...your build remains useful forever
    b) ...your itemization remains superb forever
    c) ...your skill routines remain useful forever
    d) ...your perceived truth is how it'll be in the end
    e) ...every single word can be put to the test (since stuff changes! Oh snap!)
    and finally
    f) ...you get what you want.

    This is how MMOs are. You will encounter changes you love. You will encounter changes you hate. If you cannot cope with that, look for a Non-MMO title.

    I've been around in MMOs since 1999, go figure if I care about starting with the same amount of CP or not (read: not the slightest). Actually I'm amazed we even get a single one. This is contrary to how it is pretty much everywhere else.

    So... good job and thanks for the little headstart, wasn't all that necessary but I feel appreciated ;)

    If the love-in can adjourn for a moment. Let's all give ourselves a nice stretch -- nobody here should risk pulling a muscle patting ZOS on the back for being deceitful.

    For the ump-teenth time, your extensive MMO experience notwithstanding, the issue is that ZOS assured us in a post on October 3rd that XP (even post VR14 XP) was being tracked so that we would be rewarded Champion Points for that XP upon the implementation of the Champion System, up to a certain cap. If you review the thread, you'll find someone quoting @ZOS_MariaAliprando assuring everyone that if they keep playing, there will be a pay-off when the system drops.

    That's the issue. It's not about being pleasantly surprised ZOS was kind enough to throw us a Christmas pittance. It's about ZOS dancing around the fact that they're going back on that promise -- basically, that we cannot trust a word from them.

    I've gone so far as to point out that the October 3rd "we're tracking XP for CP" announcement conveniently made a lot of players stay subscribed through the autumn and winter (while ZOS was developing Champion and Justice) to prevent us from gravitating to new games that were being or had just been released. Essentially, they lied to us so we'd keep funding the development. The timing is just way too perfect, and speaking for myself, I know I would have quit in November (or sooner) had I known they would renege on their promise. I wasn't repeating Rivenspire for a third time for the trip down memory lane -- I was doing it for the Champion Points I was assured I was earning.

    The way they were so exuberant about those 30 points during the ESO Live broadcast told me they *knew* they were giving us bad news, but they were trying to pump it up with feigned enthusiasm. And now that the fallout they expected is in mid-stride, they're dancing around telling us, directly, that they're going back on their word and giving loyal players the shaft. The whole mess, so far, stinks of the "lemon pledge" aroma of contrived messaging intended to cover up a huge, smelly pile of deceit.

    That's why I'm getting drunk and posting on the FORUMS for this game instead of playing it. I have no reason to play it, if (a) it's not counting towards my character progression, (b) only cheats my character out of potential CPs after 1.6 drops, and/or (c) the pretense I've *been* playing it under since October 3rd just proved to be a shrewd "little white lie" from ZOS to trick players into staying subbed through Fall's new releases. I don't like being tricked.

    My birthday is day after tomorrow, and really, all I want this year is for ZOS to not invalidate months and months of my time and effort. I have been subscribed and *active* since early access. But honestly, I don't have anymore faith ZOS has the intention of doing right by the players -- they just want our money, no matter what they have to SAY to us to get it. So really, I just hope my girlfriend loves me enough to get me a copy of Dragon Age. But I doubt that too, because she's just thrilled I've ostensibly quit ESO (if ZOS doesn't rethink their SOP of screwing loyal players, that is).

    You hear that, ZOS? You're *improving* my relationship with my girlfriend by driving me *away* from the game. That's not how MMO's are supposed to work, is it?
  • Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Unlikely_Ghostbuster
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    So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.



    The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.
    That question never cross my mind because I do not feel cheated because what I did was not a waste of time because I still will be doing that in the future. I did not believe that "tracked xp" thus I was never lied too.

    I have a character that has a lot items and time put into him and he is not going away by update 6. So why should I consider him a waste of time? He actually is getting better after this update. I am not going disregard him as a waste of time because of ZOS or because of some unknown player consider it a waste of time. I am not going to unsubscribe just because some game developer supposedly lied to me. Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

    So, just to clarify, you're saying that because you "never believed" ZOS would keep their word, you don't feel you were deceived. Are you sure you're not allowing the hindsight fairy to sprinkle retroactive justification dust in your ear?

    Sorry, but your feelings on the matter aren't universalized to the rest of us. It's like saying your spouse's adultery is Ok because you *expected* the infidelity, despite any marriage vows you may have heard to the contrary.

    ZOS conned us into playing through the autumn and winter to fund the development of the Champion and Justice Systems. I've unsubscribed (just did it -- 44 days of playtime remaining) because I don't tolerate being manipulated.

    None of the reasons they've offered, so far, explain why they've gone back on their word *other* than the one I've given. They changed the how valuable each point is and rescaled how many points? Then they should rescale the alleged Champion Point conversion rate as well as the cap to accommodate those changes. It's just math. No reason to renege on the promise to track XP and award Champion Points, accordingly.

    Nobody who is presumably alright with ZOS breaking their word can offer any reason for it -- all they can say is "Well, this isn't enough to make me quit, yet."

    ZOS needs to come up with a solution or else they'll lose more than just my subscription. This non-answer from @ZOS_GinaBruno doesn't work. Your claim to have clairvoyantly predicted this doesn't work, either. ZOS keeping their word, however -- that would work.

    There has not yet been a valid reason given as to why they *can't* keep their word. That's why I have ended my subscription.
    I guess you did not pay attention to what I type. I just answer your question which is in bold and of course my feelings are not universalized neither is yours. I never said that. I gave you a reason why this did not bother me. Your comparison is not valid because of what I said in bold. I have been play this game since one of the betas in February. I understand what is going on pretty well and I am presumably alright and I gave you a reason why. I am sorry that I am not devastated as you are and not everybody feels that way. I am also sorry that I not going to waste my money by unsubbing when I still have time left.

    (a) Unsubscribing does not mean you lose time you've already paid for. I have 44 days left to play, but I'm unsubscribed. In 44 days, my credit card will not be drafted to renew my subscription. I have not lost a dime.

    (b) It's hard to follow some of your language. Charitably speaking, your English is a bit broken. I'm assuming the given reason you're talking about is this:
    Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

    Even looking at it again, now, it still makes zero sense. Sorry. You're giving ZOS the green-light to lie unabashedly to you in the future -- that much I get -- but you did not tell me why. To quote a famous liar, "Corporations are people too, my friend" -- lots of people, in fact. So no, I do not understand why you're peachy-keen about the dishonesty.

    I am not giving them the the green light to do anything. Since I cannot stop from doing anything anyway. Unsubcribing does nothing at all. All it shows is that you tired of a game that you consider is not worth your time but it wasted your time. Thus you gave up. I am stating that this" lie" did not effect me at all thus I am not giving up. What is so hard to understand ?

    No. Not just no, but Nooooooooooo. Refusing to continue paying people who lie to your face is not the same thing as throwing in the towel, my friend. Likewise, showing people how much dishonesty you can ignore doesn't make you a hero in any rational mind.

    Climb down off the cross, we need the lumber. Besides -- I'm pretty sure you're hanging upside-down, pal.
    Edited by Unlikely_Ghostbuster on 23 December 2014 10:58
  • Mjollnir_NL
    Mjollnir_NL
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    Pfff so much emotions. From what i see the communiction could be better from ESO.I read about phases. And 2 layers of progression for the moment. I DO NOT read anywhere that your VR14 characters will not be compensated. A lot of you are just filling in the parts that are still unclear. Filled with fear for loosing out. Keep it together people. Lets play :-) I just keep on progressing my VR. I dont give a damm. It is a game. And if they change stuff i really don't like. Then, but only then i will react pissed of.
    Amrunor: Redguard Templar

    Disciples of Disorder
    We are mostly PVE players. We are determined to tackle challenges, but we do not reject anyone based on their skill.
    So no one is left behind.
    Calculated disorder is our team tactic :-)
    www.disciplesofdisorder.com
  • Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Unlikely_Ghostbuster
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    Pfff so much emotions. From what i see the communiction could be better from ESO.I read about phases. And 2 layers of progression for the moment. I DO NOT read anywhere that your VR14 characters will not be compensated. A lot of you are just filling in the parts that are still unclear. Filled with fear for loosing out. Keep it together people. Lets play :-) I just keep on progressing my VR. I dont give a damm. It is a game. And if they change stuff i really don't like. Then, but only then i will react pissed of.

    Let's be clear. The forums went aflame because of this issue, and in response, @ZOS_GinaBruno posted this thread, which quite eloquently danced around the question at hand without answering it. And they wouldn't be dancing around the answer if they didn't already know we were going to hate it, which means yes, they're going back on their word. How that doesn't upset you just boggles my mind.

    It sets a very bad precedent. Why would they ever bother telling us the truth ever again if we simply let this slide? They know all they *really* need to do to keep us subscribed is SAY all the right things, keep us looking forward, so we ignore everything that sucks, right now.

    I've trusted politicians more than I trust ZOS, at the moment. At least I've never been dumb enough to keep voting for (or donating to) the ones I *know* lied to me. Why would I consider ZOS any differently? Because they *promise* they'll keep their *next* promise? Reasoning that circular makes me dizzy.
  • Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Unlikely_Ghostbuster
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    jeevin wrote: »
    Greetings Jeevin,

    This email is to inform you that your subscription has expired. You have no more game time on your account and you will be unable to access the game. Please click this link to set up a new subscription to continue playing.

    Please print this email and keep it for your records.
    Warm Regards,
    The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

    Who wants my stuff? I got heaps of it!


    First!!!!!

    LOL -- You're more optimistic about ZOS doing right by us in the long term than I am, my friend. I haven't even bothered checking my hireling emails since Friday evening.

    Optimism is the spice of life my friend and btw except for eso wich pseudo medieval not corean stile not wow and with a gold graphic stile mmorpg i can choose?

    I heard LOTR was fun, but I never played it. There's also FFVI, Everquest, Warhammer, even D&D Online. If you're willing to play solo, Dragon Age and that Mordor game have been getting stellar reviews. If you're willing to compromise on the pseudo medieval bit, you could play Destiny, WildStar, etc. etc. etc...

    The point is, there are other crack dealers we can go to for our fix. ESO is not the only game in town. Literally.
    Edited by Unlikely_Ghostbuster on 23 December 2014 11:49
  • Mjollnir_NL
    Mjollnir_NL
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    @Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Let's be clear. The forums went aflame because of this issue, and in response, @ZOS_GinaBruno posted this thread, which quite eloquently danced around the question at hand without answering it. And they wouldn't be dancing around the answer if they didn't already know we were going to hate it, which means yes, they're going back on their word. How that doesn't upset you just boggles my mind.

    It sets a very bad precedent. Why would they ever bother telling us the truth ever again if we simply let this slide? They know all they *really* need to do to keep us subscribed is SAY all the right things, keep us looking forward, so we ignore everything that sucks, right now.

    I've trusted politicians more than I trust ZOS, at the moment. At least I've never been dumb enough to keep voting for (or donating to) the ones I *know* lied to me. Why would I consider ZOS any differently? Because they *promise* they'll keep their *next* promise? Reasoning that circular makes me dizzy.

    Assumption is the mother of all fuckups :wink:
    Let be clear. The moment it is a fact that someone lied to me i get pissed, dont worry. But assuming someone is lying is something else. It does not look good, i agree but that is not the same as a fact.
    Amrunor: Redguard Templar

    Disciples of Disorder
    We are mostly PVE players. We are determined to tackle challenges, but we do not reject anyone based on their skill.
    So no one is left behind.
    Calculated disorder is our team tactic :-)
    www.disciplesofdisorder.com
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    If I understand this correctly, hitting VR1 the day before 1.6 hits Live will net you the same 30 Champion Points as someone who has been VR14 for several months already?

    Eh?

    Basically........yes
    That is pretty *** up if really the case. I would have expected them to hand out Champion Points based on accumulated experience, up to a maximum of (in this case) 30. Instead, they just hand out free Champion Points to anyone who hasn't even really earned them?

    I still hope I'm misunderstanding all of this...

    [EDIT] I'm kind of getting the same vibe as when the Euro currency was introduced...

    Edited by Lava_Croft on 23 December 2014 12:18
  • Esha76
    Esha76
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

    As stated by many other people: Please just give a simple flat answer to why it was initially said that you were tracking xp to now just a flat 30 points across the board. Very simple explanation, we don't need these wordy explanations that do not answer the actual concerns of the community. Only spreading more hostility and speculation.

    All people want is the simple explanation. Even if it's just a flat "We changed our minds." K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid.
    "There is no moisture in your angry stares." - Laughs-at-All
    "I don't know why I bother guarding you horrible people." - Orama Sadas
    "Scales here is about to have a really bad day..." - Valeric
    "Just tell me what you're doing here before I turn your heart into a tomato..." - Sereyne
    "Break those rocks! Dig those ditches! Why??? Because I want you to!!!" - Ifriz the Unraveller
    "There are worse masters than I. Far worse." - Molag Bal
    "I humiliated the Daedra in Mehrunes Spite." - You, when turning in a specific Undaunted Daily.
    "I'm not finding you very pleasant!" - Adla the Brewer
    "Old Ri'hirr likes his birds slow and stupid!" - Old Ri'hirr
    "When things get dirty... Oh, I get so flustered." - Meredil the Archivist
    "Too many Argonians about these days..." - Davon's Watch Guard (though I think this one has been removed from game)
  • Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Unlikely_Ghostbuster
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    @Unlikely_Ghostbuster
    Let's be clear. The forums went aflame because of this issue, and in response, @ZOS_GinaBruno posted this thread, which quite eloquently danced around the question at hand without answering it. And they wouldn't be dancing around the answer if they didn't already know we were going to hate it, which means yes, they're going back on their word. How that doesn't upset you just boggles my mind.

    It sets a very bad precedent. Why would they ever bother telling us the truth ever again if we simply let this slide? They know all they *really* need to do to keep us subscribed is SAY all the right things, keep us looking forward, so we ignore everything that sucks, right now.

    I've trusted politicians more than I trust ZOS, at the moment. At least I've never been dumb enough to keep voting for (or donating to) the ones I *know* lied to me. Why would I consider ZOS any differently? Because they *promise* they'll keep their *next* promise? Reasoning that circular makes me dizzy.

    Assumption is the mother of all fuckups :wink:
    Let be clear. The moment it is a fact that someone lied to me i get pissed, dont worry. But assuming someone is lying is something else. It does not look good, i agree but that is not the same as a fact.

    Certainly, nothing is certain. ;-) However, you're right, it does not look good.

    At the very least, it appears as though we're only getting a flat 30 points, regardless, which directly contradicts the October 3rd post by @ZOS_MariaAliprando. It's obvious why ZOS does not want to tell us they've reneged on what we were told in that October developer post. If we *were* going to be rewarded the Champion Points supposedly earned by our allegedly tracked XP (as promised), only later on, in Update 1.7 (aka Champion System Phase 4), @ZOS_GinaBruno went through a great deal of trouble *not* telling us that when she created this thread.

    It would have been a simple enough passage to write:
    "No, we are not contradicting the post made by @ZOS_MariaAliprando on October 3rd. Players will be credited with the Champion Points earned pre-1.6 based on account-wide veteran XP, which we have been tracking specifically for that purpose. All Champion Points will be awarded in update 1.7, when we phase out veteran ranks, entirely."

    Not the most efficient wording, but I'm very close to passing out. Either way, a couple of sentences along those general lines would have been enough to keep me subscribed. As it stands, I have 44 days left and no current intention of logging in to play . I don't want to let my subscription lapse. However, if the current "flat 30 Champion Points" interpretation proves to be true, I will remain unsubscribed.

    I just don't get why (if ZOS wasn't deceiving us) ZOS could not simply scale down the onset cap and the XP-to-CP conversion rate when they decided to lower the number of points necessary to max a certain star from 400 to 100. I'm not mathematician, but dividing the conversion rate and CP cap by four is not math so prohibitively complex that it cannot be done. Instead of taking on an EASY math problem (again, just divide by four), ZOS has elected to take on a public relations problem that's significantly HARDER. IMHO, that was the wrong move.
    Edited by Unlikely_Ghostbuster on 23 December 2014 12:48
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xeniph wrote: »
    But why not award said points on a linear scale, up to 30 at VR14?

    Futhermore, what about those players that reach V1 the day after update 6? Will they get the 30 points, or is the power gap ok after launch and they receive none? As far as I can tell, anyone who reaches V1 after update 6 hits, will have this disadvantage they are trying so hard to avoid.
    This just makes so much sense. Your first point keeps the "tracking your XP" quote intact and doesn't give someone who just entered the Vet system yesterday the same bonus that someone who's been there for months gets.
    Your second point is right on the mark as well; everyone who is Vet gets an advantage that nobody else can ever get; how is that fair and not separatist?
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    Xeniph wrote: »
    But why not award said points on a linear scale, up to 30 at VR14?

    Futhermore, what about those players that reach V1 the day after update 6? Will they get the 30 points, or is the power gap ok after launch and they receive none? As far as I can tell, anyone who reaches V1 after update 6 hits, will have this disadvantage they are trying so hard to avoid.
    This just makes so much sense. Your first point keeps the "tracking your XP" quote intact and doesn't give someone who just entered the Vet system yesterday the same bonus that someone who's been there for months gets.
    Your second point is right on the mark as well; everyone who is Vet gets an advantage that nobody else can ever get; how is that fair and not separatist?
    Exactly. Reward Champion Points based on accumulated Experience, up to a maximum of 30.
This discussion has been closed.