GMs won't actually do that much. THey can make bots as fast as ZOS can ban them, even with GMs.
I think the reason they are still in the public dungeons is because they haven't yet caught on to the timer. Give it a day or so. We were JUST informed of the change about 30 minutes ago. Right now, the botters probably noticed their gold/loot gains just fell through the floor and are trying to figure out what to do next. Until they do, they will probably keep them on "autopilot".
GMs won't actually do that much. THey can make bots as fast as ZOS can ban them, even with GMs.
The bot "manufacturers" have an exhaustable resource in that they have to pay for the accounts.
Maybe they are using stolen credit cards, or hacked accounts, or paying them as an investment in gold selling returns.
Anyway you look at it, this is an exhaustable resource. One which they will eventually exhaust if they are continuously banned.
At some point cost-benefit analysis will dictate that it is no longer profitable to spin up new accounts just to get banned before any real revenue can be made.
I think the reason they are still in the public dungeons is because they haven't yet caught on to the timer. Give it a day or so. We were JUST informed of the change about 30 minutes ago. Right now, the botters probably noticed their gold/loot gains just fell through the floor and are trying to figure out what to do next. Until they do, they will probably keep them on "autopilot".
Unless the timer isn't aggressive enough.
I think the reason they are still in the public dungeons is because they haven't yet caught on to the timer. Give it a day or so. We were JUST informed of the change about 30 minutes ago. Right now, the botters probably noticed their gold/loot gains just fell through the floor and are trying to figure out what to do next. Until they do, they will probably keep them on "autopilot".
Unless the timer isn't aggressive enough.
If it's not aggressive enough, adjusting it is a simple matter compared to implementing it in the first place. I imagine it could be done with a hotfix.
GMs won't actually do that much. THey can make bots as fast as ZOS can ban them, even with GMs.
The bot "manufacturers" have an exhaustable resource in that they have to pay for the accounts.
Maybe they are using stolen credit cards, or hacked accounts, or paying them as an investment in gold selling returns.
Anyway you look at it, this is an exhaustable resource. One which they will eventually exhaust if they are continuously banned.
At some point cost-benefit analysis will dictate that it is no longer profitable to spin up new accounts just to get banned before any real revenue can be made.
Hate to tell you this, but after years of heavy handed banning in other games, no bot "manufacturers" have ever ran out of resources. I don't think you realize how easy it is to get their hands on stolen stuff because of the stupidity of people on the internet
GMs won't actually do that much. THey can make bots as fast as ZOS can ban them, even with GMs.
The bot "manufacturers" have an exhaustable resource in that they have to pay for the accounts.
Maybe they are using stolen credit cards, or hacked accounts, or paying them as an investment in gold selling returns.
Anyway you look at it, this is an exhaustable resource. One which they will eventually exhaust if they are continuously banned.
At some point cost-benefit analysis will dictate that it is no longer profitable to spin up new accounts just to get banned before any real revenue can be made.
Hate to tell you this, but after years of heavy handed banning in other games, no bot "manufacturers" have ever ran out of resources. I don't think you realize how easy it is to get their hands on stolen stuff because of the stupidity of people on the internet
You really think that botters will expose their stolen credit cards if they are making no profit from the transaction. If the bots are being banned before they can return on the investment.
$60 for an account. 50K is going for like $10. So, $60 / $10 = 6 * 50K = 300K gold each bot would need to make in order to return on their investment.
If they are making substantially less than this, the cost-benefit of exposing that stolen credit card becomes too costly.
Why does this forum have such an unrealistic view how to stop bots and how easy it is, when no game has stopped bots.
Why does this forum have such an unrealistic view how to stop bots and how easy it is, when no game has stopped bots.
Many games don't have bots, but have manual gold farmers in a sweat shop farming gold by hand. In other games, bots are restricted heavily by client side validation to basically operate like any regular player would operate anyways.
So yes, you're right. Bots won't be completely eradicated.
However, they can be severely gimped. Right now, ZOS is basically handing bots the keys to the castle. The very fact that bots can teleport is clear indication that ZOS is missing even the most basic server side validation.
[Also it's not client side validation that stops bots. That stops things like teleporting and speed hacks. It is an entirely different system that looks for bots, and each one is different.
In a bot farm, I'd purchase 10 60 dollar purchases to get 10 accounts for pretty much nothing. Also you really underestimate how easy it can be to get credit card numbers. Heck for the last 2 years you could easily get such things without leaving a trace by a simple bug in ssh
[Also it's not client side validation that stops bots. That stops things like teleporting and speed hacks. It is an entirely different system that looks for bots, and each one is different.
In a bot farm, I'd purchase 10 60 dollar purchases to get 10 accounts for pretty much nothing. Also you really underestimate how easy it can be to get credit card numbers. Heck for the last 2 years you could easily get such things without leaving a trace by a simple bug in ssh
No, client side validation stops absolutely nothing. Server side validation stops teleporting and speed hacks. Botting gets much less productive when teleporting is stopped. Unfortunately, teleporting exists right now because ZOS seemingly isn't checking server side like they should be.
Detecting bots is done by analyzing a history of patterns. The history of actions required for analysis is offloaded to a secondary analytical server which processes this information without straining the game server.
Most stolen credit cards are not used in the gold farming domain. There are much bigger fish out there for credit card fraud.
Are there millions of stolen credit cards in cyberspace? Absolutely. Are they all tapped by gold farmers? Absolutely not.
I never said all credit card were used for gold farmers. I'm simply saying that it is easier to get and you can get a lot out of them.
Again, nothing you can do will actually stop bots and this game is no different than others when they came out. GMs do little in stopping bots, the analyzing of history patterns that stops most of them, however designing that algorithm takes time in a new game. Damning the game before it is a month old for a problem that often takes longer than a month for all MMO to remotely solve is idiotic and unrealistic.
I never said all credit card were used for gold farmers. I'm simply saying that it is easier to get and you can get a lot out of them.
Again, nothing you can do will actually stop bots and this game is no different than others when they came out. GMs do little in stopping bots, the analyzing of history patterns that stops most of them, however designing that algorithm takes time in a new game. Damning the game before it is a month old for a problem that often takes longer than a month for all MMO to remotely solve is idiotic and unrealistic.
What you seem to not get is cost-benefit analysis. This is simple economics. If a more profitable opportunity exists for using those credit cards, the cards will be used for that opportunity.
That means that all ZoS has to do is make it so that there is a negative cost-benefit analysis in buying accounts with those credit cards. That means adjusting mechanics to limit gold intake by bots. Things like diminishing returns on boss loot, or banning the bots before they can make a reasonable return on investment.
For example, at some point, using those cards to buy accounts isn't as profitable as, say, selling the credit cards to someone else who'd use them for something else that is more profitable.
Yes, I've agreed with you (to a degree). Stopping bots completely is pretty much impossible from a technical standpoint. That's why your game mechanics have to render botting/gold selling not worth the cost.
The other thing is this:
Yes, this is Zenimax's first MMO, but the developers they've hired are almost certainly not new to the industry. There is no reason they couldn't have seen this coming. There is no reason that they neglected industry knowledge learned through these experiences at other MMOs.
If they indeed did not take advantage of the voluminous knowledge that has been obtained over the 20 years of MMORPG development, then they are fools.
Yes, now there are TRAINS of bots in the dungeons that goes in circles wiping everything, not just boss. Just seen this picture in Ondil today.I think the reason they are still in the public dungeons is because they haven't yet caught on to the timer. Give it a day or so.
We were JUST informed of the change about 30 minutes ago. Right now, the botters probably noticed their gold/loot gains just fell through the floor and are trying to figure out what to do next. Until they do, they will probably keep them on "autopilot".
Yes, now there are TRAINS of bots in the dungeons that goes in circles wiping everything, not just boss. Just seen this picture in Ondil today.I think the reason they are still in the public dungeons is because they haven't yet caught on to the timer. Give it a day or so.
We were JUST informed of the change about 30 minutes ago. Right now, the botters probably noticed their gold/loot gains just fell through the floor and are trying to figure out what to do next. Until they do, they will probably keep them on "autopilot".
They are like "we could care less that it's not legal in this game - not giving a crap"
They'd have to ban so fast to make it not profitable. Again all games have bots, and in all games those bots are profitable. What you are wanting them to do is pretty much impossible. Even games where gold is pretty much worthless (most mmos these days), bot farming is still profitable to gold farmers.
Again though, my main point is that it takes time to put measures in place to stop bots. Every game despite previous knowledge by devs has taken a month or more to remotely stem bots (some only stemmed them because of player drop off)
Demanding it now and expecting it now is idiotic.
Yes, now there are TRAINS of bots in the dungeons that goes in circles wiping everything, not just boss. Just seen this picture in Ondil today.I think the reason they are still in the public dungeons is because they haven't yet caught on to the timer. Give it a day or so.
We were JUST informed of the change about 30 minutes ago. Right now, the botters probably noticed their gold/loot gains just fell through the floor and are trying to figure out what to do next. Until they do, they will probably keep them on "autopilot".
They are like "we could care less that it's not legal in this game - not giving a crap"
Koltiros1005b14a_ESO wrote: »Another one of these threads? Ok.
Kyotee0071 wrote: »Koltiros1005b14a_ESO wrote: »Another one of these threads? Ok.
Yeah because this isn't a serious Issue :
Kyotee0071 wrote: »Sometimes the Squeaky Wheel gets the grease. The more threads, the more the devs might actually notice this MAJOR issue.
Bots, exploits, cheats, and hacks should not last in a MMORPG for any length of time. I think we need more post
Kyotee0071 wrote: »Sometimes the Squeaky Wheel gets the grease. The more threads, the more the devs might actually notice this MAJOR issue.
Bots, exploits, cheats, and hacks should not last in a MMORPG for any length of time. I think we need more post
I guarantee you they know about it and are working on it. Fixes take time. very few MMOs fixed their bot problems in under a month and many left hacks in for months and even years. Things take time. Constantly complaining and reposting something that already has a tone of thread about it does not magically speed up time or make people work faster.