NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Okay, so up until now these are the suggestions that will end up in the poll:

Which of these suggestions for gear after VR removal would you like to see implemented?

Suggestion 0 (by @ZOS_RichLambert ):

The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Suggestion 1 (by @Dubhliam ):

So, my suggestion would be that the armor (and other values of gear) scale with CP of course.
And it would look something like this:


Veteran gear (lvl50+) would be divided into 5 ranks. Equivalents to Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver, Voidstone and Rubedite and come in two qualities: CP and normal.
All gear obtained prior to the removal of VRs should be converted to normal versions of the 5 ranks, based on the current VR levels (v15 & v16 = Rubedite, v9-v14 = Voidstone etc.)

The values of gear would scale with CP earned with caps for each rank of gear. After hitting the cap, the CP quality gear would then scale only 25% of CP earned over the cap, while normal gear would remain at that value of the cap. Caps in the example graph above are as follows:
Calcinium cap= 0 CP
Galatite cap= 90 CP
Quicksilver cap= 180 CP
Voidstone cap = 270 CP
Rubedite cap = 360 CP

Looted CP quality gear would be as rare as current v16, as opposed to normal gear that would be as frequent as current v15 gear.
Also, crafting normal gear would require less materials (similar to today v1-15) while crafting CP quality gear would require more materials (similar to v16) to craft. An example ratio would be:
Calcinium = 2x more than normal
Galatite = 4x more than normal
Quicksilver = 6x more than normal
Voidstone = 8x more than normal
Rubedite = 10x more than normal

Quick recap:
-All veteran gear is wearable as soon as you hit lvl 50.
-Veteran gear stats scale off of CP earned.
-Two qualities: normal hit CP hardcaps, rare hit softcaps.

Suggestion 2 (by @Dubhliam ):

Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1,86% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 150 210)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

Some examples of current v16 equivalents:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 0 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 90 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 225 CP:

Suggestion 3 (by @Sausage ):

Why this needs to be so complicated, theres already Gear Upgrade System use it. After Legendary, could come Legendary +1, Legendary +2, Legendary +3 ect, lets call them Endgame Upgrades. Green, Blue, Purple, Legendary are for low levels. Also I dont think its good idea to give huge gear advantage we will see similiar whine as to CP system. My system is alot easier to understand too, OP's suggested stuff just makes things even more confusing.

Suggestion 4 (by @NewBlacksmurf ):

Leave the 1-50 as is because that part of the game is so important for a new gamer and it's also the base of how a character is developed

VR stuff....
VR levels on a character....just remove them literally.
VR levels on NPC's to eliminate confusion, show these as numeric levels so a VR16 would not be 66 nor should they be CP160 or CP anything.

VR1- VR5 NPCs would be represented as level 50 and bosses [ 51 ] and dungeon or elite bosses [ 51]
VR 6-VR10 is 52 , [ 53] and [ 53]
VR11-VR15 is 54, [ 55] and [55]
VR16 is 56, [56] and [56]

The logic here is because your base is still 50 and anything within 5 levels gives good exp and is solo able. This allows the game to simplify a noob to a veteran understanding and keep the grey, yellow orange red logic

Now VR16, as its only 6 levels above 50 and at this point all player have enough CP's to overcome the 5+ level variances.

VR1-VR16 gear and item progression:
This follows as today each zone which becomes a little harder has new mats every so often that hat offer higher base stats


Seasonal Gear:
Instead of tying a CP to requirements use the base of 50
NOW you can use CP to multiply the effectiveness of any base skill, gear stat so instead of using CP as a requirement it can be used as a multiplayer and you'd only need to mess with either adding more mats or another multiplier

That's a simple....now I'm not ZOS and I'm sure you guys have it all figured out....but this is just my point of view
The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor. There is already a progression of material type so with those, the stats are higher and also the quality raises the base stats.


Based on what ZOS has shared, this isn't what they are thinking but hopefully someone reads this and realizes there is another way....CP's just need to be left as is and not tied to anything else.

Suggestion 5 (by @Faulgor ):

My suggestion is to make use of the existing system that more materials yield better gear when crafting. This is all the progression we need in my opinion, and it would also give us the option to craft high level materials in low level styles.

Using a Heavy Cuirass as an example:
11 Ebony Ingots > Level 46
12 Ebony Ingots > Level 48
13 Ebony Ingots > Level 50
14 Ebony Ingots > Level 52 (currently V2)
...
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78 (currently V15)
270 Ebony Ingots > Level 80 (currently V16)

Likewise, a Heavy Cuirass with Iron Ingots would scale like:
7 Iron Ingots > Level 1
8 Iron Ingots > Level 4
9 Iron Ingots > Level 6
10 Iron Ingots > Level 8
...
45 Iron Ingots > Level 78
450 Iron Ingots > Level 80

There wouldn't be any requirements past level 50. Loot would consist exclusively of the highest possible level (or, if they are adamant about keeping their current V15/16 system, the penultimate level with a lower chance for the highest level). If they wished to introduce better gear with a new update, they just have to add it and allow higher level crafting. This might go along with an adjustment in the material requirement curve, so the ultimate level always requires 10x the amount of the penultimate.

For instance, if they increased the level to 90 at some point:
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78
28 Ebony Ingots > Level 80
...
32 Ebony Ingots > Level 88
320 Ebony Ingots > Level 90

Basically, it's a catch-up mechanic for crafting.

Advantages:
- Keeps the current gear hierarchy; Nobody will suddenly end up with worse or better gear
- Makes use of existing systems; No new mechanics will have to be adopted
- Does not require new materials every update; instead, V1-V14 materials could be removed
- Easy to expand
- Allows the use of low level styles at higher levels
- No level, rank or champion point gates past level 50; If you can make it or find it, you can wear it

Disadvantages:
- Might devalue current V15/V16 gear
- Would require more development time

Suggestion 6 (by @andypappb16_ESO ):

verything that currently Is v1-16 will get the Same stats and can be used at lv50/v1.
The exception will be "Special gear", like undaunted stuff, aswell as "seasoned gear" which was talked about.

Another idea:
(Crafted) Set items, depending on needed traits
will also requiere a specific amount of CP to be crafted(or used? Better not, crafters Going Crazy)
2 traits 50 cp
4 traits 150 cp
6 traits 250 cp
8 traits 350 cp
9 traits 501 cp (always current cap?)


I personally hope we finally get to use all existing vr1-15 sets, without less set bonus / stats etc. So many actually great but useless sets thanks to being bound to lower levels

If this happens, I will drown in theorycrafting a year or two

I would also like the authors to chime in and give me a short explanation of their idea that would serve as a poll option.
Current ones I gave myself are:
@Sausage Gear progress via upgrading to Legendary +1 etc.
@NewBlacksmurf Gear tied to skill points in light/med/heavy passives
@Faulgor Gear progression with more existing materials
@andypappb16_ESO Undaunted and seasoned gear + CP and trait crafting

Also, some details, numbers perhaps would also help greatly for people to fully understand the suggestions.

If anyone else has an idea how the gear should be handled after the VR removal, please, don't be shy to share it here.

Can you further explain how gear progression would work if tied to skill points because there aren't enough so you'd have to group 3 - 6 tiers in one skill which seems a bit unclear vs associating it to something that we are already familiar with.

I like how Wrothgar handles crafting nodes but that is very unclear and doesn't always work as intended or work as we think it should based on how it was explained. To me, using motifs or something like a motif for post 50 gear progression makes sense as this is already a concept we use today and its very clear.

The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor.

Dubhliam wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Okay, so up until now these are the suggestions that will end up in the poll:

Which of these suggestions for gear after VR removal would you like to see implemented?

Suggestion 0 (by @ZOS_RichLambert ):

The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Suggestion 1 (by @Dubhliam ):

So, my suggestion would be that the armor (and other values of gear) scale with CP of course.
And it would look something like this:


Veteran gear (lvl50+) would be divided into 5 ranks. Equivalents to Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver, Voidstone and Rubedite and come in two qualities: CP and normal.
All gear obtained prior to the removal of VRs should be converted to normal versions of the 5 ranks, based on the current VR levels (v15 & v16 = Rubedite, v9-v14 = Voidstone etc.)

The values of gear would scale with CP earned with caps for each rank of gear. After hitting the cap, the CP quality gear would then scale only 25% of CP earned over the cap, while normal gear would remain at that value of the cap. Caps in the example graph above are as follows:
Calcinium cap= 0 CP
Galatite cap= 90 CP
Quicksilver cap= 180 CP
Voidstone cap = 270 CP
Rubedite cap = 360 CP

Looted CP quality gear would be as rare as current v16, as opposed to normal gear that would be as frequent as current v15 gear.
Also, crafting normal gear would require less materials (similar to today v1-15) while crafting CP quality gear would require more materials (similar to v16) to craft. An example ratio would be:
Calcinium = 2x more than normal
Galatite = 4x more than normal
Quicksilver = 6x more than normal
Voidstone = 8x more than normal
Rubedite = 10x more than normal

Quick recap:
-All veteran gear is wearable as soon as you hit lvl 50.
-Veteran gear stats scale off of CP earned.
-Two qualities: normal hit CP hardcaps, rare hit softcaps.

Suggestion 2 (by @Dubhliam ):

Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1,86% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 150 210)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

Some examples of current v16 equivalents:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 0 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 90 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 225 CP:

Suggestion 3 (by @Sausage ):

Why this needs to be so complicated, theres already Gear Upgrade System use it. After Legendary, could come Legendary +1, Legendary +2, Legendary +3 ect, lets call them Endgame Upgrades. Green, Blue, Purple, Legendary are for low levels. Also I dont think its good idea to give huge gear advantage we will see similiar whine as to CP system. My system is alot easier to understand too, OP's suggested stuff just makes things even more confusing.

Suggestion 4 (by @NewBlacksmurf ):

Leave the 1-50 as is because that part of the game is so important for a new gamer and it's also the base of how a character is developed

VR stuff....
VR levels on a character....just remove them literally.
VR levels on NPC's to eliminate confusion, show these as numeric levels so a VR16 would not be 66 nor should they be CP160 or CP anything.

VR1- VR5 NPCs would be represented as level 50 and bosses [ 51 ] and dungeon or elite bosses [ 51]
VR 6-VR10 is 52 , [ 53] and [ 53]
VR11-VR15 is 54, [ 55] and [55]
VR16 is 56, [56] and [56]

The logic here is because your base is still 50 and anything within 5 levels gives good exp and is solo able. This allows the game to simplify a noob to a veteran understanding and keep the grey, yellow orange red logic

Now VR16, as its only 6 levels above 50 and at this point all player have enough CP's to overcome the 5+ level variances.

VR1-VR16 gear and item progression:
This follows as today each zone which becomes a little harder has new mats every so often that hat offer higher base stats


Seasonal Gear:
Instead of tying a CP to requirements use the base of 50
NOW you can use CP to multiply the effectiveness of any base skill, gear stat so instead of using CP as a requirement it can be used as a multiplayer and you'd only need to mess with either adding more mats or another multiplier

That's a simple....now I'm not ZOS and I'm sure you guys have it all figured out....but this is just my point of view
The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor. There is already a progression of material type so with those, the stats are higher and also the quality raises the base stats.


Based on what ZOS has shared, this isn't what they are thinking but hopefully someone reads this and realizes there is another way....CP's just need to be left as is and not tied to anything else.

Suggestion 5 (by @Faulgor ):

My suggestion is to make use of the existing system that more materials yield better gear when crafting. This is all the progression we need in my opinion, and it would also give us the option to craft high level materials in low level styles.

Using a Heavy Cuirass as an example:
11 Ebony Ingots > Level 46
12 Ebony Ingots > Level 48
13 Ebony Ingots > Level 50
14 Ebony Ingots > Level 52 (currently V2)
...
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78 (currently V15)
270 Ebony Ingots > Level 80 (currently V16)

Likewise, a Heavy Cuirass with Iron Ingots would scale like:
7 Iron Ingots > Level 1
8 Iron Ingots > Level 4
9 Iron Ingots > Level 6
10 Iron Ingots > Level 8
...
45 Iron Ingots > Level 78
450 Iron Ingots > Level 80

There wouldn't be any requirements past level 50. Loot would consist exclusively of the highest possible level (or, if they are adamant about keeping their current V15/16 system, the penultimate level with a lower chance for the highest level). If they wished to introduce better gear with a new update, they just have to add it and allow higher level crafting. This might go along with an adjustment in the material requirement curve, so the ultimate level always requires 10x the amount of the penultimate.

For instance, if they increased the level to 90 at some point:
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78
28 Ebony Ingots > Level 80
...
32 Ebony Ingots > Level 88
320 Ebony Ingots > Level 90

Basically, it's a catch-up mechanic for crafting.

Advantages:
- Keeps the current gear hierarchy; Nobody will suddenly end up with worse or better gear
- Makes use of existing systems; No new mechanics will have to be adopted
- Does not require new materials every update; instead, V1-V14 materials could be removed
- Easy to expand
- Allows the use of low level styles at higher levels
- No level, rank or champion point gates past level 50; If you can make it or find it, you can wear it

Disadvantages:
- Might devalue current V15/V16 gear
- Would require more development time

Suggestion 6 (by @andypappb16_ESO ):

verything that currently Is v1-16 will get the Same stats and can be used at lv50/v1.
The exception will be "Special gear", like undaunted stuff, aswell as "seasoned gear" which was talked about.

Another idea:
(Crafted) Set items, depending on needed traits
will also requiere a specific amount of CP to be crafted(or used? Better not, crafters Going Crazy)
2 traits 50 cp
4 traits 150 cp
6 traits 250 cp
8 traits 350 cp
9 traits 501 cp (always current cap?)


I personally hope we finally get to use all existing vr1-15 sets, without less set bonus / stats etc. So many actually great but useless sets thanks to being bound to lower levels

If this happens, I will drown in theorycrafting a year or two

I would also like the authors to chime in and give me a short explanation of their idea that would serve as a poll option.
Current ones I gave myself are:
@Sausage Gear progress via upgrading to Legendary +1 etc.
@NewBlacksmurf Gear tied to skill points in light/med/heavy passives
@Faulgor Gear progression with more existing materials
@andypappb16_ESO Undaunted and seasoned gear + CP and trait crafting

Also, some details, numbers perhaps would also help greatly for people to fully understand the suggestions.

If anyone else has an idea how the gear should be handled after the VR removal, please, don't be shy to share it here.

Can you further explain how gear progression would work if tied to skill points because there aren't enough so you'd have to group 3 - 6 tiers in one skill which seems a bit unclear vs associating it to something that we are already familiar with.

I like how Wrothgar handles crafting nodes but that is very unclear and doesn't always work as intended or work as we think it should based on how it was explained. To me, using motifs or something like a motif for post 50 gear progression makes sense as this is already a concept we use today and its very clear.

"Gear tied to skill points in light/med/heavy passives" is just my recap of your own ideas that you posted here and in another thread, but mostly recapped from this :

The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor.

This is exactly why I asked for authors to name their own ideas.
So there would be no confusion as to what authors are suggesting as I might have misunderstood something.

Btw: I'm surprised to see you jump on your own idea.

Gotcha...don't be surprised. My original idea after other discussions wasn't the best way.

I read and heard discussions and moved to a motif idea because the game thrives off motif and people like how they work.

Using a motif for gear progression offers limitless progression and doesn't require ZOS to rework anything.
It also allows them to do any PvP related gear and stats or PvE and their season ideas without interrupting anything else.

It allows them to go back and pull any old designs or items from places like Crag and move or change the stats for endgame while keeping the rest of the game the same.

Gotta be open to change when someone points out things....

Care to go into detail? I would love to add that idea to the future poll.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

...
Sure.
So I'm using the term motif but I'm only attempting to describe something that unlocks a specific players ability to equip items using the existing crafting material tiers.

There would be 5 motif for the basic VR1-VR16 tiers to wear what exists today to replace the restriction tiers.
These would in my opinion be purchasable from an NPC vendor in addition to being found from NPC drops, chest, etc.

This now allows ZOS to simply remove our VR levels as well as the NPC VR levels but keep all the loot tables exactly the same.

The motif are 5 total so this makes converting NPCs really easy as the higher the difficulty, the next numerical level of the NPC, maxing out at level 55 to keep the exp rules in tact.

If they want to go overboard, they can have arms, legs, swords, etc but I think that's over complicating things but just for the VR1-VR16 stuff I believe it simplifies all the concerns ppl have about making some things seem to have lesser value or to make ppl feel like a new level 50 can wear VR16 gear.

I think these motif should be only BoP but motif should be trade ready so this may cause ZOS to look at breaking a book into pages as well as having a complete book for the 5.

Now for future seasonal gear, this same premise can work but the motif would unlock new and higher stat gear not currently in the game so that gear progression keeps growing but that Champion Points don't place us where VR levels have and cause problems that hopefully go away with the removal of VR levels.

I'm not sure @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno share this with @ZOS_RichLambert but I really think it makes this whole process very simple.

What am I not thinking about?
Cause this seems to address removing VRs, not giving ppl instant max chars, keeping VR1-VR16 content relevant as well as allowing ZOS to adjust certain zones tone end game as level 55 instead whatever VR level it is now.

Imagine Cadwell zones being all level 50-52 or around this and even lower and all Craglorn and newer DLC being 52-55
Then level 55 is boss level and the brackets make sense but the game is now balanced and understandable.




And...
For those who already above the current level requirement, they'd just be able keep playing but to those who aren't VR16, they would fall into this progression that should have a reasonably high drop rate that diminishes as the tiers get higher.

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Imagine Cadwell zones being all level 50-52 or around this and even lower and all Craglorn and newer DLC being 52-55

Just on that specifically - this doesn't remove the problem of "Cadwell's comes before Craglorn" which is one of the things people dislike about VRs. If you had Cadwell's as 50-52, Lower Craglorn as 50-51, and Upper Craglorn as 51-52, with all DLC also fitting in 50-52, then the implied linearity is gone, and the necessary parallel content that the removal of VRs is supposed to achieve is introduced.

Dubhliam wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

...
Sure.
So I'm using the term motif but I'm only attempting to describe something that unlocks a specific players ability to equip items using the existing crafting material tiers.

There would be 5 motif for the basic VR1-VR16 tiers to wear what exists today to replace the restriction tiers.
These would in my opinion be purchasable from an NPC vendor in addition to being found from NPC drops, chest, etc.

This now allows ZOS to simply remove our VR levels as well as the NPC VR levels but keep all the loot tables exactly the same.

The motif are 5 total so this makes converting NPCs really easy as the higher the difficulty, the next numerical level of the NPC, maxing out at level 55 to keep the exp rules in tact.

If they want to go overboard, they can have arms, legs, swords, etc but I think that's over complicating things but just for the VR1-VR16 stuff I believe it simplifies all the concerns ppl have about making some things seem to have lesser value or to make ppl feel like a new level 50 can wear VR16 gear.

I think these motif should be only BoP but motif should be trade ready so this may cause ZOS to look at breaking a book into pages as well as having a complete book for the 5.

Now for future seasonal gear, this same premise can work but the motif would unlock new and higher stat gear not currently in the game so that gear progression keeps growing but that Champion Points don't place us where VR levels have and cause problems that hopefully go away with the removal of VR levels.

I'm not sure @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno share this with @ZOS_RichLambert but I really think it makes this whole process very simple.

What am I not thinking about?
Cause this seems to address removing VRs, not giving ppl instant max chars, keeping VR1-VR16 content relevant as well as allowing ZOS to adjust certain zones tone end game as level 55 instead whatever VR level it is now.

Imagine Cadwell zones being all level 50-52 or around this and even lower and all Craglorn and newer DLC being 52-55
Then level 55 is boss level and the brackets make sense but the game is now balanced and understandable.




And...
For those who already above the current level requirement, they'd just be able keep playing but to those who aren't VR16, they would fall into this progression that should have a reasonably high drop rate that diminishes as the tiers get higher.

@Enodoc has a valid point, although I actually like this idea.

I am going ahead and REPLACING your old ideas with this one, if that is okay.

Dubhliam wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

My idea isnt exactly that. I just hate to think we need to grind CP-gears and eventually they are battleleved, just like what happened with VR-gears. I'd rather see them adding Armory when they add Housing and let us collect multiple gear sets, so long time players would have multiple gears to choose from and no doubt make the game more enjoyable to play, one day you're tank and one day you're DPS, for example. Also would help alot with queue problems, when one can queue up with multiple roles. Even after all that, if they still need gear grind, they could add Legendary +1, or even Legendary +2. More gears you own, more Legendary +1 materials you need. Casuals can play with couple sets when loyal/vet players wants 5 sets.

I just started to think about alts, maybe Armory should be account-wide so all your chars can use all gears you've collected. Also even after all that if players still need gear-grind, add Improved Weapon Enchant system, grindy as hell.

Like THIS very much

Okay, also replacing your original idea with this post. Got any "name" for it?

Enodoc wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

My idea isnt exactly that. I just hate to think we need to grind CP-gears and eventually they are battleleved, just like what happened with VR-gears. I'd rather see them adding Armory when they add Housing and let us collect multiple gear sets, so long time players would have multiple gears to choose from and no doubt make the game more enjoyable to play, one day you're tank and one day you're DPS, for example. Also would help alot with queue problems, when one can queue up with multiple roles. Even after all that, if they still need gear grind, they could add Legendary +1, or even Legendary +2. More gears you own, more Legendary +1 materials you need. Casuals can play with couple sets when loyal/vet players wants 5 sets.

I just started to think about alts, maybe Armory should be account-wide so all your chars can use all gears you've collected. Also even after all that if players still need gear-grind, add Improved Weapon Enchant system, grindy as hell.

Like THIS very much

Okay, also replacing your original idea with this post. Got any "name" for it?

Hmm, Gear Armory. Instead of adding gears what are eventually be battleleveled, people grind multiple gear sets.

And I think this would be easily doable. Take the five mats you have now - each one of those is tailored to a specific gameplay style, eg Galatite for Tanking, Voidstone for DPSing, Calcinium for solo Questing, etc. Each of those gameplay styles has certain abilities and passives that are better suited for that style than other types of gameplay, so this could be complemented by having gear with special qualities determined by the material. (kinda like Traits, but more meta)

1   | 2         | 3                    | 4             | 5
v16 | gear      | tiers/seasonal       | crafting mats | future
lvl | requires  | progression          | requirements  | materials

50  | 10CP/tier | 16/same as current   | veteran mats  | seasonal X

50  | lvl 50    | 10/scale more by CP  | veteran mats  | seasonal X

50  | lvl 50    | 5/unlock CP passives | Void+Rubedite | season 2&3

50  | lvl 50    | 1/legendary+1        | Ebony         | none

55+ | 1lvl/tier | 5/one motif/tier     | veteran mats  | seasonal X

80+ | lvl 50    | 16/every 2 lvls      | up to Ebony   | none

50  | lvl 50    | 1/seasonal (special) | Ebony+CP/trait| none

50  | lvl 50    | 5/specialised gear   | veteran mats  | seasonal X

50  | 90CP/tier | 5/class specific     | veteran mats  | seasonal X

Enodoc wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Alternate suggestion 7 by @Enodoc - Gear Specialization with veteran materials

50  | lvl 50    | 5/specialised gear    | veteran mats   | X?

Yeah, I would say that sums it up nicely. For as long as they can come up with new specialisations to tie to new materials, there would be progression, so X would be seasonal. (I think the code row needs to be 63 characters to fit in one line.)

v16 | gear| tiers/seasonal        | crafting mats  | future
lvl | req | progression           | requirements   | materials

50  | 50  | 5/specialised gear    | veteran mats   | seasonal

....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:

....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:....:

Autolycus wrote: »

I think it should be tiered gear based on champion rank, with the highest tier coinciding with either the CP cap at the time, or something relatively close (for instance right now, top tier gear might require 400-450 CP to use). Gear should play off of class-specific skills and there should be a variety available to each class. The set bonuses would benefit only that class, and they would target specific skills, but all classes (and regardless of whether you are a magicka/stamina build) would get something. Every new update adds a new tier of gear, corresponding to the relative CP rank of that particular update.

An example I made up on the fly (so clearly debatable and prone to flaws):
- Dragonknight gear, where the 5set specifies that hitting a target with lava whip adds a DoT
- Sorcerer gear, where the 5set increases the number of active pets allowed
- Nightblade gear, where the 5set increases damage done to feared targets
- Templar gear, where the 5set adds CC immunity while blazing shield is active

Again, I just made these up. They're probably not the best ideas, just something to clarify what I mean. Ideally, there would be 2-3 sets per class, per update, and each one plays on a skill or attribute unique to that class.

Autolycus wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Okay, I will make sure to include your idea in the poll.
But could you please answer in short to these questions:
1. What level would VR16 convert to? (add + if that number would grow with updates)
2. What requirement would each tier of gear have to wear?
3. How many tiers would there be upon conversion? / how would gear progress?
4. What materials would be used to craft tiers of gear?
5. Would there be (X) new materials with (X) updates?

1. I envision my concept of gear conversion all being level 50 gear. I don't add a + here because, ideally, each new update comes with new sets and new materials, like rubedo/ancestor/rubedite.
2. The requirements would revolve around champion rank. Similar to how there is a small, but worthwhile, increase from purple to gold. Again, this is arbitrary, but say that these unique sets require shadowhide/void stone/cloth. The CP requirements to wear this gear would be lower than for unique sets requiring rubedit/rubdeo/ancestor.
3. The tiers are based upon CP rank, again. I would prefer not to have a set that requires ~300 CP made from shadowhide have identical set bonuses and stats as a set that requires ~450 CP to equip. It's different for the materials that currently exist in the game, because it's a matter of adding new bonuses to existing gear and scaling it to be balanced. New updates come with new unique sets, and new materials.
4. This is explained mostly by previous points. If ZOS added my concept of unique sets today, the highest tier would require a reasonable number of CP for today's content. I know that things like vMA can be completed with less than 400 CP, but I still think this gear structure would work. Those with lower CP would have access other unique sets, which would be viable, just not the absolute best statistically.
5. Ideally, yes. If an update comes with new sets, then new materials are introduced. Or, at the very least, some combination of materials that currently exist would be required. An example of the latter, assuming vet ranks are removed and all gear is converted already: ZOS adds a new update, introduces new unique sets, but they still require rubedo/rubedite/ancestor. This gear would be today's equivalent of vr17-18, but without the ranks. It still requires the same materials, except ZOS adds one new, unique crafting material, that can be obtained from bosses/mobs in a variety of content.

v16 | gear      | tiers/seasonal       | crafting mats | future
lvl | requires  | progression          | requirements  | materials

50  | 50CP/tier | 10/class specific    | veteran mats  | seasonal X

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

@Dubhliam honestly that's just the Veteran Systwm with a different name you will still not be able to make/ wear items and be competitive at max level