Old: How gear should look after VR removal

Dubhliam · November 2015

I have collected all the great ideas in this Thread and put together a poll where you can vote for the option you would wish most to see when it comes to VR removal.
Link: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/239997/poll-how-gear-should-look-after-vr-removal

So, there has been much debate about what will happen to gear once the VR levels are removed.
I will try to present my idea about how it should be reworked.
But first, let's see a graph of how things look now.

This is an example of heavy chest armor value for each veteran rank

Suggestion 1: (nov 26)

So, my suggestion would be that the armor (and other values of gear) scale with CP of course.
And it would look something like this:

Veteran gear (lvl50+) would be divided into 5 ranks. Equivalents to Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver, Voidstone and Rubedite and come in two qualities: CP and normal.
All gear obtained prior to the removal of VRs should be converted to normal versions of the 5 ranks, based on the current VR levels (v15 & v16 = Rubedite, v9-v14 = Voidstone etc.)

The values of gear would scale with CP earned with caps for each rank of gear. After hitting the cap, the CP quality gear would then scale only 25% of CP earned over the cap, while normal gear would remain at that value of the cap. Caps in the example graph above are as follows:
Calcinium cap= 0 CP
Galatite cap= 90 CP
Quicksilver cap= 180 CP
Voidstone cap = 270 CP
Rubedite cap = 360 CP

Looted CP quality gear would be as rare as current v16, as opposed to normal gear that would be as frequent as current v15 gear.
Also, crafting normal gear would require less materials (similar to today v1-15) while crafting CP quality gear would require more materials (similar to v16) to craft. An example ratio would be:
Calcinium = 2x more than normal
Galatite = 4x more than normal
Quicksilver = 6x more than normal
Voidstone = 8x more than normal
Rubedite = 10x more than normal

Quick recap:
-All veteran gear is wearable as soon as you hit lvl 50.
-Veteran gear stats scale off of CP earned.
-Two qualities: normal hit CP hardcaps, rare hit softcaps.

Suggestion 2: (dec 29)

Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1,86% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 150 210)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

Some examples of current v16 equivalents:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 0 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 90 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 225 CP:

What do you think about the ideas?
I encourage a constructive discussion, this change is a big one and the more we can contribute to a satisfying solution, the better for the community.
Also, please don't just say that something is a bad idea, please provide an alternative.
I will make a list of suggestions posted in this thread so that all suggestions get a vote.

Current suggestions:
IDEA 1 by @Sausage Gear Armory- grind multiple gear sets
IDEA 2 by @NewBlacksmurf Level 50 - 55 gear progression via motifs.
IDEA 3 by @Faulgor Gear progression with lvl 1 to lvl 50 existing materials
IDEA 4 by @andypappb16_ESO Undaunted and seasoned gear + CP and trait crafting
IDEA 5 by @Enodoc Gear Specialization with veteran materials

Essiaga · December 2015

I personally don't like the idea as I would like to see all those mats go away. With trophies and scraps, and ores, wood, and herbs, and all provisioning mats, etc i'm destroying green drop to make room for stuff I'll actually use. I spend more time managing in this game then I do playing.

There should be only 1 champion level mat that is able to be harvest by any player regardless of his crafting level or skill points spent, as long as they are ...
A. on a Champoin level character
B. in a champion level zone or in a scaled zone such as Cyro and DLCs].
... and all item dropped should be Champion level or above and when deconed it should yield that 1 champion level mat.

With the catch up system I would hope you'd earn CP to quick to craft more then 2-3 sets of gear. Remember there is still a lot of gap between a CP 10 and a CP 501. There are still Skill lines (Undaunted, Mages, Fighters, Alliance) that need to be completed and Skills that need to be leveled, then morphed and leveled some more, and there's only 5 skills + 1 ult per bar. Is ZOS plans to adjust the XP needed to level these skill?

Then there will be CP it self. Gear level, Gear quality, Complete gear sets vs partial, and player skill. Remember gear dropped will likely drop at the level you are, meaning if you're CP10 today and CP 40 tomorrow you'll have different scale gear drop every day. Its kinda like V1 gear now. Its pretty much worthless as it will need replaced tomorrow and the next day until you reach max and you're not going to be yellowing low tier gear when the next level is going to be 1-4 hours away.

If they want to have a few CP tiered gear then I'd recommend no more then 2-4 at the very most.

It would only effect newer players until they raise the cap, unless ZOS DOES NOT plan to keep the CP need to wear Max Level/Teir gear with in the catch up ...
Example 1: 501 cap / 400 catch up / 160 cp max gear. Increase 626 cp cap / catch up 501 / 230 cp max gear. Doesn't really hurt.
Example 2 : 501 cap / catch up 400 / 501 max gear. Increase 626 cap / catch up 501 / 626 cp max gear. Now you'll have larger and longer gaps even when some long time players.
... ZOS already said they'd leave max gear requirement below Cap so it shouldn't be much of an issue either way.

So maybe like CP 1 ... CP 80 ... CP 160 ... if 160 cp is indeed where the max gear will be set. People are gaining 40 CP in a day in some cases. This also closes the gaps between gear at Champion level.

The other thing you can do is allow for 8 teirs and just have the teirs provide rather minor upgrades which to me would be the same thing only more mats and create a mats grind before moving up to the next tier. Example: When you move from v14 to v15+ all your previous mats won't help you and your starting from nothing. You might be v16 or CP capped before you get the mats you need to make your v16 gear effectively holding you down as again its not just the level gear. It's the quality. Do you yellow out v14, then v15, then v16? or do you wait for v16 and save yourself a ton of gold?

So why do we want a smaller gap between CP and CP max gear? Otherwise you'll just have a scaling nightmare when it comes content. Do you scale for 501 cp and yellow drop gear? or for CP 10 with blue or purple crafted gear?

Larger gaps mean Champion System is as good a v1 with only 10 cp grouping with v16 who has 501 CP and Yellow gear, etc to do a dungeon. One will either be WAY over powered and the other WAY under powered or some where in between OR we'll need Gold Pledge and Gold 80cp and Gold 160, etc. So we'll still be segregating with in the CPS like we do in the current VetRS

Essiaga · December 2015

Essiaga wrote: »

The other thing you can do is allow for 8 teirs and just have the teirs provide rather minor upgrades which to me would be the same thing only more mats and create a mats grind before moving up to the next tier. Example: When you move from v14 to v15+ all your previous mats won't help you and your starting from nothing. You might be v16 or CP capped before you get the mats you need to make your v16 gear effectively holding you down as again its not just the level gear. It's the quality. Do you yellow out v14, then v15, then v16? or do you wait for v16 and save yourself a ton of gold?

I should point out that this would really only matter if ZOS keep this need for 10x the mats at CP Max requirement like they do with the current V16. If they did as I suggested then 10x the mats wouldn't matter as much because you could be saving them since you hit CP1 and you would have a chance gather as you play content such as Caldwell's Silver/Gold, Craglorn, Cyro, DLC, etc. Of course they'd have to change the Harvesting rules in Ors to the way harvesting used to work.

Not sure why they want to reward either completing the vet grind or grinding around it with another grind. It's the same delayed progress that keeps players wondering flaming hoops they need to jump through next to get to "end game."

Dubhliam · December 2015

Like

So, my suggestion would be that the armor (and other values of gear) scale with CP of course.
And it would look something like this:

Veteran gear (lvl50+) would be divided into 5 ranks. Equivalents to Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver, Voidstone and Rubedite and come in two qualities: CP and normal.
All gear obtained prior to the removal of VRs should be converted to normal versions of the 5 ranks, based on the current VR levels (v15 & v16 = Rubedite, v9-v14 = Voidstone etc.)

The values of gear would scale with CP earned with caps for each rank of gear. After hitting the cap, the CP quality gear would then scale only 25% of CP earned over the cap, while normal gear would remain at that value of the cap. Caps in the example graph above are as follows:
Calcinium cap= 0 CP
Galatite cap= 90 CP
Quicksilver cap= 180 CP
Voidstone cap = 270 CP
Rubedite cap = 360 CP

Looted CP quality gear would be as rare as current v16, as opposed to normal gear that would be as frequent as current v15 gear.
Also, crafting normal gear would require less materials (similar to today v1-15) while crafting CP quality gear would require more materials (similar to v16) to craft. An example ratio would be:
Calcinium = 2x more than normal
Galatite = 4x more than normal
Quicksilver = 6x more than normal
Voidstone = 8x more than normal
Rubedite = 10x more than normal

Quick recap:
-All veteran gear is wearable as soon as you hit lvl 50.
-Veteran gear stats scale off of CP earned.
-Two qualities: normal hit CP hardcaps, rare hit softcaps.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2015

Dislike

The whole point of removing VR should be to "remove VR"
In short the gear already has a requirement to find and progresses in stats by material

They should not apply a CP to it because CP are not character based

Honestly the whole mats part is messed up too if you look at what mats are assigned to existing VR levels for crafting.

Basically any mat should be used once reached as it stands today but the difference would be that in crafting, the amount of mats used would determine the base stats. This way...as you find better material, it takes less to create proficient gear but he lower tiered mats would use a lot more mats and higher tiered mats. This also should remove the silly 100+ mats per piece of VR16 gear

AngryNord · December 2015

I really don't get the point of the "level 3 character with rubedite armour" that some people throw around? I'm pretty damn certain that the post-VR-armours will be unequippable below level 50, no matter your CP... Anything else simply makes no sense...

Sausage · December 2015

Dislike

Why this needs to be so complicated, theres already Gear Upgrade System use it. After Legendary, could come Legendary +1, Legendary +2, Legendary +3 ect, lets call them Endgame Upgrades. Green, Blue, Purple, Legendary are for low levels. Also I dont think its good idea to give huge gear advantage we will see similiar whine as to CP system. My system is alot easier to understand too, OP's suggested stuff just makes things even more confusing.

Enodoc · December 2015

In your proposal, does the number of CPs you have determine what tier you can wear, or only how powerful it is? If it's just power, does that mean that all tiers (bar Calcinium) are effectively identical at CP 89?

Dubhliam · December 2015

Like

Enodoc wrote: »

In your proposal, does the number of CPs you have determine what tier you can wear, or only how powerful it is? If it's just power, does that mean that all tiers (bar Calcinium) are effectively identical at CP 89?

Exactly. All gear would be identical at 0 CPs. And all can be worn at level 50.
The more Cp you gain, the more powerful the gear. BUT! Low mats gear start to gain less power over some CP marks (0,90,180,270,360 in the example above).

Dubhliam · December 2015

Like

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The whole point of removing VR should be to "remove VR"
In short the gear already has a requirement to find and progresses in stats by material

They should not apply a CP to it because CP are not character based

Honestly the whole mats part is messed up too if you look at what mats are assigned to existing VR levels for crafting.

Basically any mat should be used once reached as it stands today but the difference would be that in crafting, the amount of mats used would determine the base stats. This way...as you find better material, it takes less to create proficient gear but he lower tiered mats would use a lot more mats and higher tiered mats. This also should remove the silly 100+ mats per piece of VR16 gear

Well that is exactly the reason for it to be CP based, to eliminate grinding for subsequent characters after the first. Why do you think they didn't make CP character bound?

If you take a closer look at the mat requirements above, to craft normal rubedite gear (equivalent to todays v16) you would need only the normal amount (eg. 15) of ingots. It would take more materials to craft CP Rubedite gear that would EXCEED the current values after a number of CP accumulated. Therefore it would be more powerful and have potential to keep it even when the CP cap is raised.

Dubhliam · December 2015

Like

Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1,86% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.
Some examples of current v15 and v16 equivalents:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 0 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 90 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 225 CP:

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 210)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2015

Dislike

Dubhliam wrote: »

Okay, so I got another idea of how the gear should work:

Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 150)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

Tying gear or content progression to CP's is absolutely the worse and dumbest idea because the VR system is being removed due to it being a big problem. Moving from VR to CP with any twist is also another recipe for problems.

All that should happen is to allow CP's to offer each person a realistic choice to make their characters play to cause content to feel easier or if not used, make content harder.

ZOS can play with rewards based on CP's used but anything else creates problems like we have and more considering CP's are account wide. See it's no longer a character progressing, but the entire account so this is one main reason why nothing should be tied to CP's.

The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor. There is already a progression of material type so with those, the stats are higher and also the quality raises the base stats.

Based on what ZOS has shared, this isn't what they are thinking but hopefully someone reads this and realizes there is another way....CP's just need to be left as is and not tied to anything else.

Enodoc · December 2015

I like the ideas in this thread better than the proposed system. Much more freedom, as things are based on CPs but not bound to how many you have.

Dubhliam · December 2015

Like

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Okay, so I got another idea of how the gear should work:

Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 150)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

Tying gear or content progression to CP's is absolutely the worse and dumbest idea because the VR system is being removed due to it being a big problem. Moving from VR to CP with any twist is also another recipe for problems.

All that should happen is to allow CP's to offer each person a realistic choice to make their characters play to cause content to feel easier or if not used, make content harder.

ZOS can play with rewards based on CP's used but anything else creates problems like we have and more considering CP's are account wide. See it's no longer a character progressing, but the entire account so this is one main reason why nothing should be tied to CP's.

The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor. There is already a progression of material type so with those, the stats are higher and also the quality raises the base stats.

Based on what ZOS has shared, this isn't what they are thinking but hopefully someone reads this and realizes there is another way....CP's just need to be left as is and not tied to anything else.

I hear you.

The problem is: ZOS thinks of making gear CP scaled either way. Their plan is to make gear have CP requirements.
Talk about bad idea.

I like the way you think, there is just one problem: if progress would be tied to skills, every player would hit max "level" in a couple of days.
There is an abundance of skill points around to obtain, and everyone has all passives in light/med/heavy already unlocked.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2015

Dislike

Dubhliam wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Okay, so I got another idea of how the gear should work:

Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 150)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

Tying gear or content progression to CP's is absolutely the worse and dumbest idea because the VR system is being removed due to it being a big problem. Moving from VR to CP with any twist is also another recipe for problems.

All that should happen is to allow CP's to offer each person a realistic choice to make their characters play to cause content to feel easier or if not used, make content harder.

ZOS can play with rewards based on CP's used but anything else creates problems like we have and more considering CP's are account wide. See it's no longer a character progressing, but the entire account so this is one main reason why nothing should be tied to CP's.

The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor. There is already a progression of material type so with those, the stats are higher and also the quality raises the base stats.

Based on what ZOS has shared, this isn't what they are thinking but hopefully someone reads this and realizes there is another way....CP's just need to be left as is and not tied to anything else.

I hear you.

The problem is: ZOS thinks of making gear CP scaled either way. Their plan is to make gear have CP requirements.
Talk about bad idea.

I like the way you think, there is just one problem: if progress would be tied to skills, every player would hit max "level" in a couple of days.
There is an abundance of skill points around to obtain, and everyone has all passives in light/med/heavy already unlocked.

yeah....its starting to look like they would benefit from an outsider mindset to move the problems out of the game and from the dev team so they can concentrate on little fixes, bugs and new content.

Dubhliam · December 2015

Like

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

...

yeah....its starting to look like they would benefit from an outsider mindset to move the problems out of the game and from the dev team so they can concentrate on little fixes, bugs and new content.

I agree completely.
They sure could use some outside input. With all the latest ideas they throw at us lately they sure need a fresh perspective.

On a related matter, this is what @The_Death_Princess has to say about the topic:

One of the things that I can tell the devs that have chatted about the removal have not been presented with is what to do with the existing content designed for all those removed levels. Craglorn, Orsinium, Cadwells silver and gold, and even the final stage of the main quest line if you played the game right is all POST 50. Not to mention the conundrum of all the material styles that have been planned out and fit that progreassion (your post).

I believe once the itemization devs and the questing/zone devs (yes, there are multiple teams) get involved they will see how nonsensical and problematic a rollback to 50 is and will just make the cap level 65 instead. Every other MMO in history that has lasted past a expansion has. Besides, imagine the outcry on a given day when we all see how much weaker a toon is after one days patch.

Faulgor · December 2015

Aside from increasing cp requirements with every update for new gear, I'm much more worried about new materials every time they introduce new gear. It makes everything you collected previously worthless (like the V1-V8 materials are now), clutters your inventory even more which in turn increases micromanagement, makes no sense within the gameworld (honestly, Ebony should have been the best material, and currently it's the most useless) and will lead to a ridiculous spiral of ever increasing supermaterials.

My suggestion is to instead make use of the existing system that more materials yield better gear when crafting. This is all the progression we need in my opinion, and it would also give us the option to craft high level materials in low level styles.

Using a Heavy Cuirass as an example:
11 Ebony Ingots > Level 46
12 Ebony Ingots > Level 48
13 Ebony Ingots > Level 50
14 Ebony Ingots > Level 52 (currently V2)
...
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78 (currently V15)
270 Ebony Ingots > Level 80 (currently V16)

Likewise, a Heavy Cuirass with Iron Ingots would scale like:
7 Iron Ingots > Level 1
8 Iron Ingots > Level 4
9 Iron Ingots > Level 6
10 Iron Ingots > Level 8
...
45 Iron Ingots > Level 78
450 Iron Ingots > Level 80

There wouldn't be any requirements past level 50. Loot would consist exclusively of the highest possible level (or, if they are adamant about keeping their current V15/16 system, the penultimate level with a lower chance for the highest level). If they wished to introduce better gear with a new update, they just have to add it and allow higher level crafting. This might go along with an adjustment in the material requirement curve, so the ultimate level always requires 10x the amount of the penultimate.

For instance, if they increased the level to 90 at some point:
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78
28 Ebony Ingots > Level 80
...
32 Ebony Ingots > Level 88
320 Ebony Ingots > Level 90

Basically, it's a catch-up mechanic for crafting.

Advantages:
- Keeps the current gear hierarchy; Nobody will suddenly end up with worse or better gear
- Makes use of existing systems; No new mechanics will have to be adopted
- Does not require new materials every update; instead, V1-V14 materials could be removed
- Easy to expand
- Allows the use of low level styles at higher levels
- No level, rank or champion point gates past level 50; If you can make it or find it, you can wear it

Disadvantages:
- Might devalue current V15/V16 gear
- Would require more development time

NewBlacksmurf · December 2015

Dislike

Dubhliam wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

...

yeah....its starting to look like they would benefit from an outsider mindset to move the problems out of the game and from the dev team so they can concentrate on little fixes, bugs and new content.

I agree completely.
They sure could use some outside input. With all the latest ideas they throw at us lately they sure need a fresh perspective.

On a related matter, this is what @The_Death_Princess has to say about the topic:

One of the things that I can tell the devs that have chatted about the removal have not been presented with is what to do with the existing content designed for all those removed levels. Craglorn, Orsinium, Cadwells silver and gold, and even the final stage of the main quest line if you played the game right is all POST 50. Not to mention the conundrum of all the material styles that have been planned out and fit that progreassion (your post).

I believe once the itemization devs and the questing/zone devs (yes, there are multiple teams) get involved they will see how nonsensical and problematic a rollback to 50 is and will just make the cap level 65 instead. Every other MMO in history that has lasted past a expansion has. Besides, imagine the outcry on a given day when we all see how much weaker a toon is after one days patch.

I get where they are coming from.
I don't personally feel it's difficult to make changes that keep the gear, mats, etc in play as post 50

The larger issue is that taking out the problems of VR should remove all of VR related things.

Now that VR is here, you can't just erase stuff. :-/
I have concerns with what ZOS shares tho because as written, they seem not to understand the actual problems they've created with VR. The biggest mistake I sense is if post 50 is considered CP leveling.

I understand people want progression vertically and horizontally but at some point ZOS will have to either keep going down this VR path and name it CP which then becomes a big waste of development time or instead go back to a base of 50.

Going back isn't rolling anyone back tho. It just will move some VR's up from where they are if gear was holding them back but they still aren't and won't be same as a fully leveled Vr16

Dubhliam · December 2015

Like

@Faulgor
The second suggestion I made recently would remove calcinium, galatite and quicksilver grade materials.

Then Void would be the base for all gear, with the addition of 3 more materials EVER.
One being Rubedite, so that leaves only two new materials.

@NewBlacksmurf
I seriously don't understand why they need to remove VRs in the first place.
Every game has a level progression, no game stopped at lvl X and called it a day.

They made things complicated with the champion system where there are two progressions going on at the same time, but that should not in general be a bad thing.

Players that actually requested VR removals had a genuine complaint that in order to level from v1 to vX you would need to revisit content from other factions (known as Cadwell silver and gold) therefore forcing players to play virtual content instead of actual content after they finish the main storyline.

That Cadwell problematic is already half dealt with since they introduced two DLCs that battle level. Each new DLC would bring more scaled content for players to level in instead of doing grindy Cadwell.

Sausage · December 2015

Dislike

Its nothing more than gear-grind, they add CP-gears, when new and casual players start to whine that they get owned, they battlelevel everything, just like happened with VR-gears, Im not sure if this is the right way to keep players playing. I'd prefer to have an Armory in my House with 1-5 different place to store my gears, so all top players would fill all their gear slot and imagine how long it would take, should be enough gear-grind, dont you think? And no-one needs to be battleleved in the future.

threefarms · December 2015

I don't care

As long as ZOS doesn't screw it up like usual

Dubhliam · December 2015

Like

Sausage wrote: »

Its nothing more than gear-grind, they add CP-gears, when new and casual players start to whine that they get owned, they battlelevel everything, just like happened with VR-gears, Im not sure if this is the right way to keep players playing. I'd prefer to have an Armory in my House with 1-5 different place to store my gears, so all top players would fill all their gear slot and imagine how long it would take, should be enough gear-grind, dont you think? And no-one needs to be battleleved in the future.

In my second suggestion all current gear would be "nerfed" back to lvl 50 values. E.G. Cuirass would have 1716 armor.
The equivalent of current v16 gear would have 5 stars to unlock, each giving a small increase in power. E.G. Cuirass would have 1844 armor with 5 stars. That is between current v3 and v4 values.
The most powerful equipment that would be available in a couple of years is 36 star. E.G. Cuirass would have 2836 armor.
Current v16 Cuirass has 2420 armor. Also, you can unlock 36 stars as soon as you have 1080 CP, and my guess is by that time cap would be close to 3600.

There is already a catchup mechanic in place that significantly reduces grind for CP.

There will always be new players that complain in hopes to get a better chance of being competitive, but hey, name one MMORPG where you are competitive at the very start, without having to invest some time in it.

This is, IMO the best that the game can offer players in terms of gear progression.

Dubhliam · January 2016

Like

I made a table for better comparison and added it to the first post.

The 2500 table max is intentional, so that all tables are comparable.

Dubhliam wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Its nothing more than gear-grind, they add CP-gears, when new and casual players start to whine that they get owned, they battlelevel everything, just like happened with VR-gears, Im not sure if this is the right way to keep players playing. I'd prefer to have an Armory in my House with 1-5 different place to store my gears, so all top players would fill all their gear slot and imagine how long it would take, should be enough gear-grind, dont you think? And no-one needs to be battleleved in the future.

In my second suggestion all current gear would be "nerfed" back to lvl 50 values. E.G. Cuirass would have 1716 armor.
The equivalent of current v16 gear would have 5 stars to unlock, each giving a small increase in power. E.G. Cuirass would have 1844 armor with 5 stars. That is between current v3 and v4 values.
The most powerful equipment that would be available in a couple of years is 36 star. E.G. Cuirass would have 2836 armor.
Current v16 Cuirass has 2420 armor. Also, you can unlock 36 stars as soon as you have 1080 CP, and my guess is by that time cap would be close to 3600.
...

After doing the table I realized the numbers I gave you were incorrect.
The correct values are:
5 star = 1876 (v4 value)
36 star = 2868
That is because I counted 1 star as strong as a v1 gear but current v1 gear is = lvl 50 gear.

WalkingLegacy · January 2016

Call me old fashion but I hate their current endgame gear solution and their planned one. All their options ruin ease of access and make it convulated.

Hit level 50, okay can't use this item until I'm 50 + 150 champion points....so horrible I just can't fathom who thinks this is awesome.

They're trying to make it so they don't have to design content around adding new and better gear for all their expansion DLCs but they're already designing new stuff each pack anyways so???? Overcomplicating something that has so many examples out already that work.

Dubhliam · January 2016

Like

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Call me old fashion but I hate their current endgame gear solution and their planned one. All their options ruin ease of access and make it convulated.

Hit level 50, okay can't use this item until I'm 50 + 150 champion points....so horrible I just can't fathom who thinks this is awesome.

They're trying to make it so they don't have to design content around adding new and better gear for all their expansion DLCs but they're already designing new stuff each pack anyways so???? Overcomplicating something that has so many examples out already that work.

They really made their life overcomplicated by adding the second progression method (CPs).
It is a wonderful idea, but very much a pain in the donkey to work gear around that system.

Also, THIS is what the need to do more with their future sets.

Dubhliam · January 2016

Like

Made some visuals on how the "star" gear should look:
Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 0 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 90 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 225 CP:

(it takes 360 CP to max out Steed 4)

Added in the first post.

Also, the symbols on the left of the star indicator are dwemer symbols for constellations.
It is difficult to show ESO constellation symbols on such a low scale, so I took the simplifed ones I found HERE.

Birdovic · January 2016

Idea:

Everything that currently Is v1-16 will get the Same stats and can be used at lv50/v1.
The exception will be "Special gear", like undaunted stuff, aswell as "seasoned gear" which was talked about.

Another idea:
(Crafted) Set items, depending on needed traits
will also requiere a specific amount of CP to be crafted(or used? Better not, crafters Going Crazy)
2 traits 50 cp
4 traits 150 cp
6 traits 250 cp
8 traits 350 cp
9 traits 501 cp (always current cap?)

I personally hope we finally get to use all existing vr1-15 sets, without less set bonus / stats etc. So many actually great but useless sets thanks to being bound to lower levels

If this happens, I will drown in theorycrafting a year or two

MrGigglypants · January 2016

Dislike

Essiaga wrote: »

I personally don't like the idea as I would like to see all those mats go away. With trophies and scraps, and ores, wood, and herbs, and all provisioning mats, etc i'm destroying green drop to make room for stuff I'll actually use. I spend more time managing in this game then I do playing.

There should be only 1 champion level mat that is able to be harvest by any player regardless of his crafting level or skill points spent, as long as they are ...
A. on a Champoin level character
B. in a champion level zone or in a scaled zone such as Cyro and DLCs].
... and all item dropped should be Champion level or above and when deconed it should yield that 1 champion level mat.

With the catch up system I would hope you'd earn CP to quick to craft more then 2-3 sets of gear. Remember there is still a lot of gap between a CP 10 and a CP 501. There are still Skill lines (Undaunted, Mages, Fighters, Alliance) that need to be completed and Skills that need to be leveled, then morphed and leveled some more, and there's only 5 skills + 1 ult per bar. Is ZOS plans to adjust the XP needed to level these skill?

Then there will be CP it self. Gear level, Gear quality, Complete gear sets vs partial, and player skill. Remember gear dropped will likely drop at the level you are, meaning if you're CP10 today and CP 40 tomorrow you'll have different scale gear drop every day. Its kinda like V1 gear now. Its pretty much worthless as it will need replaced tomorrow and the next day until you reach max and you're not going to be yellowing low tier gear when the next level is going to be 1-4 hours away.

If they want to have a few CP tiered gear then I'd recommend no more then 2-4 at the very most.

It would only effect newer players until they raise the cap, unless ZOS DOES NOT plan to keep the CP need to wear Max Level/Teir gear with in the catch up ...
Example 1: 501 cap / 400 catch up / 160 cp max gear. Increase 626 cp cap / catch up 501 / 230 cp max gear. Doesn't really hurt.
Example 2 : 501 cap / catch up 400 / 501 max gear. Increase 626 cap / catch up 501 / 626 cp max gear. Now you'll have larger and longer gaps even when some long time players.
... ZOS already said they'd leave max gear requirement below Cap so it shouldn't be much of an issue either way.

So maybe like CP 1 ... CP 80 ... CP 160 ... if 160 cp is indeed where the max gear will be set. People are gaining 40 CP in a day in some cases. This also closes the gaps between gear at Champion level.

The other thing you can do is allow for 8 teirs and just have the teirs provide rather minor upgrades which to me would be the same thing only more mats and create a mats grind before moving up to the next tier. Example: When you move from v14 to v15+ all your previous mats won't help you and your starting from nothing. You might be v16 or CP capped before you get the mats you need to make your v16 gear effectively holding you down as again its not just the level gear. It's the quality. Do you yellow out v14, then v15, then v16? or do you wait for v16 and save yourself a ton of gold?

So why do we want a smaller gap between CP and CP max gear? Otherwise you'll just have a scaling nightmare when it comes content. Do you scale for 501 cp and yellow drop gear? or for CP 10 with blue or purple crafted gear?

Larger gaps mean Champion System is as good a v1 with only 10 cp grouping with v16 who has 501 CP and Yellow gear, etc to do a dungeon. One will either be WAY over powered and the other WAY under powered or some where in between OR we'll need Gold Pledge and Gold 80cp and Gold 160, etc. So we'll still be segregating with in the CPS like we do in the current VetRS

It's an mmo that's the point to put in the time to separate players and have skill in the game. That's why maelstrom is awesome it separates high skill players from the rest rather than just another keyboard smash vet dungeon. Sure grouping can be a pain but I enjoy there being a separation of player skill.

Dubhliam · January 2016

Like

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Idea:

Everything that currently Is v1-16 will get the Same stats and can be used at lv50/v1.
The exception will be "Special gear", like undaunted stuff, aswell as "seasoned gear" which was talked about.
...

Most of the ideas revolve around some kind of rollback to lvl 50 (including mine).
Could you please add some more detail to how the seasoned gear should scale? As in, compare it with current veteran gear power.

Or throw me a link to a discussion.

Dubhliam · January 2016

Like

Okay, so up until now these are the suggestions that will end up in the poll:

Which of these suggestions for gear after VR removal would you like to see implemented?

Suggestion 0 (by @ZOS_RichLambert ):

The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Suggestion 1 (by @Dubhliam ):

So, my suggestion would be that the armor (and other values of gear) scale with CP of course.
And it would look something like this:

Veteran gear (lvl50+) would be divided into 5 ranks. Equivalents to Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver, Voidstone and Rubedite and come in two qualities: CP and normal.
All gear obtained prior to the removal of VRs should be converted to normal versions of the 5 ranks, based on the current VR levels (v15 & v16 = Rubedite, v9-v14 = Voidstone etc.)

The values of gear would scale with CP earned with caps for each rank of gear. After hitting the cap, the CP quality gear would then scale only 25% of CP earned over the cap, while normal gear would remain at that value of the cap. Caps in the example graph above are as follows:
Calcinium cap= 0 CP
Galatite cap= 90 CP
Quicksilver cap= 180 CP
Voidstone cap = 270 CP
Rubedite cap = 360 CP

Looted CP quality gear would be as rare as current v16, as opposed to normal gear that would be as frequent as current v15 gear.
Also, crafting normal gear would require less materials (similar to today v1-15) while crafting CP quality gear would require more materials (similar to v16) to craft. An example ratio would be:
Calcinium = 2x more than normal
Galatite = 4x more than normal
Quicksilver = 6x more than normal
Voidstone = 8x more than normal
Rubedite = 10x more than normal

Quick recap:
-All veteran gear is wearable as soon as you hit lvl 50.
-Veteran gear stats scale off of CP earned.
-Two qualities: normal hit CP hardcaps, rare hit softcaps.

Suggestion 2 (by @Dubhliam ):

Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1,86% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 150 210)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

Some examples of current v16 equivalents:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 0 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 90 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 225 CP:

Suggestion 3 (by @Sausage ):

Why this needs to be so complicated, theres already Gear Upgrade System use it. After Legendary, could come Legendary +1, Legendary +2, Legendary +3 ect, lets call them Endgame Upgrades. Green, Blue, Purple, Legendary are for low levels. Also I dont think its good idea to give huge gear advantage we will see similiar whine as to CP system. My system is alot easier to understand too, OP's suggested stuff just makes things even more confusing.

Suggestion 4 (by @NewBlacksmurf ):

Leave the 1-50 as is because that part of the game is so important for a new gamer and it's also the base of how a character is developed

VR stuff....
VR levels on a character....just remove them literally.
VR levels on NPC's to eliminate confusion, show these as numeric levels so a VR16 would not be 66 nor should they be CP160 or CP anything.

VR1- VR5 NPCs would be represented as level 50 and bosses [ 51 ] and dungeon or elite bosses [ 51]
VR 6-VR10 is 52 , [ 53] and [ 53]
VR11-VR15 is 54, [ 55] and [55]
VR16 is 56, [56] and [56]

The logic here is because your base is still 50 and anything within 5 levels gives good exp and is solo able. This allows the game to simplify a noob to a veteran understanding and keep the grey, yellow orange red logic

Now VR16, as its only 6 levels above 50 and at this point all player have enough CP's to overcome the 5+ level variances.

VR1-VR16 gear and item progression:
This follows as today each zone which becomes a little harder has new mats every so often that hat offer higher base stats

Seasonal Gear:
Instead of tying a CP to requirements use the base of 50
NOW you can use CP to multiply the effectiveness of any base skill, gear stat so instead of using CP as a requirement it can be used as a multiplayer and you'd only need to mess with either adding more mats or another multiplier

That's a simple....now I'm not ZOS and I'm sure you guys have it all figured out....but this is just my point of view
The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor. There is already a progression of material type so with those, the stats are higher and also the quality raises the base stats.

Based on what ZOS has shared, this isn't what they are thinking but hopefully someone reads this and realizes there is another way....CP's just need to be left as is and not tied to anything else.

Suggestion 5 (by @Faulgor ):

My suggestion is to make use of the existing system that more materials yield better gear when crafting. This is all the progression we need in my opinion, and it would also give us the option to craft high level materials in low level styles.

Using a Heavy Cuirass as an example:
11 Ebony Ingots > Level 46
12 Ebony Ingots > Level 48
13 Ebony Ingots > Level 50
14 Ebony Ingots > Level 52 (currently V2)
...
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78 (currently V15)
270 Ebony Ingots > Level 80 (currently V16)

Likewise, a Heavy Cuirass with Iron Ingots would scale like:
7 Iron Ingots > Level 1
8 Iron Ingots > Level 4
9 Iron Ingots > Level 6
10 Iron Ingots > Level 8
...
45 Iron Ingots > Level 78
450 Iron Ingots > Level 80

There wouldn't be any requirements past level 50. Loot would consist exclusively of the highest possible level (or, if they are adamant about keeping their current V15/16 system, the penultimate level with a lower chance for the highest level). If they wished to introduce better gear with a new update, they just have to add it and allow higher level crafting. This might go along with an adjustment in the material requirement curve, so the ultimate level always requires 10x the amount of the penultimate.

For instance, if they increased the level to 90 at some point:
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78
28 Ebony Ingots > Level 80
...
32 Ebony Ingots > Level 88
320 Ebony Ingots > Level 90

Basically, it's a catch-up mechanic for crafting.

Advantages:
- Keeps the current gear hierarchy; Nobody will suddenly end up with worse or better gear
- Makes use of existing systems; No new mechanics will have to be adopted
- Does not require new materials every update; instead, V1-V14 materials could be removed
- Easy to expand
- Allows the use of low level styles at higher levels
- No level, rank or champion point gates past level 50; If you can make it or find it, you can wear it

Disadvantages:
- Might devalue current V15/V16 gear
- Would require more development time

Suggestion 6 (by @andypappb16_ESO ):

verything that currently Is v1-16 will get the Same stats and can be used at lv50/v1.
The exception will be "Special gear", like undaunted stuff, aswell as "seasoned gear" which was talked about.

Another idea:
(Crafted) Set items, depending on needed traits
will also requiere a specific amount of CP to be crafted(or used? Better not, crafters Going Crazy)
2 traits 50 cp
4 traits 150 cp
6 traits 250 cp
8 traits 350 cp
9 traits 501 cp (always current cap?)

I personally hope we finally get to use all existing vr1-15 sets, without less set bonus / stats etc. So many actually great but useless sets thanks to being bound to lower levels

If this happens, I will drown in theorycrafting a year or two

I would also like the authors to chime in and give me a short explanation of their idea that would serve as a poll option.
Current ones I gave myself are:
@Sausage Gear progress via upgrading to Legendary +1 etc.
@NewBlacksmurf Gear tied to skill points in light/med/heavy passives
@Faulgor Gear progression with more existing materials
@andypappb16_ESO Undaunted and seasoned gear + CP and trait crafting

Also, some details, numbers perhaps would also help greatly for people to fully understand the suggestions.

If anyone else has an idea how the gear should be handled after the VR removal, please, don't be shy to share it here.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2016

Dislike

Dubhliam wrote: »

Okay, so up until now these are the suggestions that will end up in the poll:
Which of these suggestions for gear after VR removal would you like to see implemented?

Suggestion 0 (by @ZOS_RichLambert ):
The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)
Suggestion 1 (by @Dubhliam ):
So, my suggestion would be that the armor (and other values of gear) scale with CP of course.
And it would look something like this:

Veteran gear (lvl50+) would be divided into 5 ranks. Equivalents to Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver, Voidstone and Rubedite and come in two qualities: CP and normal.
All gear obtained prior to the removal of VRs should be converted to normal versions of the 5 ranks, based on the current VR levels (v15 & v16 = Rubedite, v9-v14 = Voidstone etc.)

The values of gear would scale with CP earned with caps for each rank of gear. After hitting the cap, the CP quality gear would then scale only 25% of CP earned over the cap, while normal gear would remain at that value of the cap. Caps in the example graph above are as follows:
Calcinium cap= 0 CP
Galatite cap= 90 CP
Quicksilver cap= 180 CP
Voidstone cap = 270 CP
Rubedite cap = 360 CP

Looted CP quality gear would be as rare as current v16, as opposed to normal gear that would be as frequent as current v15 gear.
Also, crafting normal gear would require less materials (similar to today v1-15) while crafting CP quality gear would require more materials (similar to v16) to craft. An example ratio would be:
Calcinium = 2x more than normal
Galatite = 4x more than normal
Quicksilver = 6x more than normal
Voidstone = 8x more than normal
Rubedite = 10x more than normal

Quick recap:
-All veteran gear is wearable as soon as you hit lvl 50.
-Veteran gear stats scale off of CP earned.
-Two qualities: normal hit CP hardcaps, rare hit softcaps.
Suggestion 2 (by @Dubhliam ):
Instead of making veteran gear have requirements, just make it so that each "star" (the 10, 30, 75 and 120 CP passives) in the Champion constellations gives a 1,86% bonus to the gear.

Make the (veteran) gear require Voidsteel/Void cloth/Nightwood to craft, with each new material unlocking star progress to gear.
F.E. lvl 50 Void gear would have the same stats as lvl 50 Rubedite gear, but the rubedite gear would gain power with each unlocked passive in a constellation.

Make every set have three "innate" constellations that they can gain bonuses from.

I'd like to look at it from a crafting angle:
Julianos can be crafted with Void mats only, making it lvl 50.
Then by adding Rubedite along with the Void will make it lvl 50 with The Lord star bonuses:
15 Void + 15 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 1 The Lord star bonus (each passive in The Lord will grant 1% bonus to the gear)
15 Void + 25 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 2 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 50 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 3 The Lord star bonus
15 Void + 75 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
16 Void + 150 Rubedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear)

Dropped gear usually drop in The Lord 4/The Steed 4/The Lady 4 and rarely in The Warrior 5 forms.

Then they can raise the caps with each update to make it The Warrior 6 etc.

When they decide to add another material, the new material adds another Constellation:
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 15 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 1 The Shadow bonus
17 Void + 150 Rubedite + 25 Awesomedite = lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus and 2 The Shadow bonus (each passive unlocked in The Lady, The Lord or The Steed will grant 1% bonus to the gear, and 2 bonuses form The Shadow)

With some updates, the Thief is unlocked:
18 Void + 170 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite = lvl 50 gear with 6 The Warrior star bonus and 5 The Thief star bonus

And the final material adds the blue constellation:
19 Void + 190 Rubedite + 150 Awesomedite + 25 Ultradite = lvl 50 gear with 7 The Warrior star bonus, 5 The Thief star bonus and 2 The Ritual star bonus

Rubedite (red) = warrior tree
Awesomedite (green) = thief tree
Ultradite (blue) = mage tree

Current Julianos v1 - v14 gear vould become normal lvl 50 gear.
Current Julianos v15 would become lvl 50 with 4 The Lord star bonus
Current Julianos v16 would become lvl 50 with 5 The Warrior star bonus (bonuses maxed as soon as CP 150 210)

The best gear obtainable this way would be lvl 50 12 Warrior, 12 Thief, 12 Mage gear, and it would be possible to max its bonuses as soon as CP 1080.
But there would be years of progress until then.

Some examples of current v16 equivalents:
Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 0 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 90 CP:

Steed 4 and Warrior 5 at 225 CP:

Suggestion 3 (by @Sausage ):
Why this needs to be so complicated, theres already Gear Upgrade System use it. After Legendary, could come Legendary +1, Legendary +2, Legendary +3 ect, lets call them Endgame Upgrades. Green, Blue, Purple, Legendary are for low levels. Also I dont think its good idea to give huge gear advantage we will see similiar whine as to CP system. My system is alot easier to understand too, OP's suggested stuff just makes things even more confusing.
Suggestion 4 (by @NewBlacksmurf ):
Leave the 1-50 as is because that part of the game is so important for a new gamer and it's also the base of how a character is developed

VR stuff....
VR levels on a character....just remove them literally.
VR levels on NPC's to eliminate confusion, show these as numeric levels so a VR16 would not be 66 nor should they be CP160 or CP anything.

VR1- VR5 NPCs would be represented as level 50 and bosses [ 51 ] and dungeon or elite bosses [ 51]
VR 6-VR10 is 52 , [ 53] and [ 53]
VR11-VR15 is 54, [ 55] and [55]
VR16 is 56, [56] and [56]

The logic here is because your base is still 50 and anything within 5 levels gives good exp and is solo able. This allows the game to simplify a noob to a veteran understanding and keep the grey, yellow orange red logic

Now VR16, as its only 6 levels above 50 and at this point all player have enough CP's to overcome the 5+ level variances.

VR1-VR16 gear and item progression:
This follows as today each zone which becomes a little harder has new mats every so often that hat offer higher base stats

Seasonal Gear:
Instead of tying a CP to requirements use the base of 50
NOW you can use CP to multiply the effectiveness of any base skill, gear stat so instead of using CP as a requirement it can be used as a multiplayer and you'd only need to mess with either adding more mats or another multiplier

That's a simple....now I'm not ZOS and I'm sure you guys have it all figured out....but this is just my point of view
The materials and gear progression would best work of aligned within the 1-50 skill lines and work similar to how Wrothgar uses crafting Passives but instead use the main skill level for light, medium and heavy armor. There is already a progression of material type so with those, the stats are higher and also the quality raises the base stats.

Based on what ZOS has shared, this isn't what they are thinking but hopefully someone reads this and realizes there is another way....CP's just need to be left as is and not tied to anything else.
Suggestion 5 (by @Faulgor ):
My suggestion is to make use of the existing system that more materials yield better gear when crafting. This is all the progression we need in my opinion, and it would also give us the option to craft high level materials in low level styles.

Using a Heavy Cuirass as an example:
11 Ebony Ingots > Level 46
12 Ebony Ingots > Level 48
13 Ebony Ingots > Level 50
14 Ebony Ingots > Level 52 (currently V2)
...
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78 (currently V15)
270 Ebony Ingots > Level 80 (currently V16)

Likewise, a Heavy Cuirass with Iron Ingots would scale like:
7 Iron Ingots > Level 1
8 Iron Ingots > Level 4
9 Iron Ingots > Level 6
10 Iron Ingots > Level 8
...
45 Iron Ingots > Level 78
450 Iron Ingots > Level 80

There wouldn't be any requirements past level 50. Loot would consist exclusively of the highest possible level (or, if they are adamant about keeping their current V15/16 system, the penultimate level with a lower chance for the highest level). If they wished to introduce better gear with a new update, they just have to add it and allow higher level crafting. This might go along with an adjustment in the material requirement curve, so the ultimate level always requires 10x the amount of the penultimate.

For instance, if they increased the level to 90 at some point:
27 Ebony Ingots > Level 78
28 Ebony Ingots > Level 80
...
32 Ebony Ingots > Level 88
320 Ebony Ingots > Level 90

Basically, it's a catch-up mechanic for crafting.

Advantages:
- Keeps the current gear hierarchy; Nobody will suddenly end up with worse or better gear
- Makes use of existing systems; No new mechanics will have to be adopted
- Does not require new materials every update; instead, V1-V14 materials could be removed
- Easy to expand
- Allows the use of low level styles at higher levels
- No level, rank or champion point gates past level 50; If you can make it or find it, you can wear it

Disadvantages:
- Might devalue current V15/V16 gear
- Would require more development time
Suggestion 6 (by @andypappb16_ESO ):
verything that currently Is v1-16 will get the Same stats and can be used at lv50/v1.
The exception will be "Special gear", like undaunted stuff, aswell as "seasoned gear" which was talked about.

Another idea:
(Crafted) Set items, depending on needed traits
will also requiere a specific amount of CP to be crafted(or used? Better not, crafters Going Crazy)
2 traits 50 cp
4 traits 150 cp
6 traits 250 cp
8 traits 350 cp
9 traits 501 cp (always current cap?)

I personally hope we finally get to use all existing vr1-15 sets, without less set bonus / stats etc. So many actually great but useless sets thanks to being bound to lower levels

If this happens, I will drown in theorycrafting a year or two

I would also like the authors to chime in and give me a short explanation of their idea that would serve as a poll option.
Current ones I gave myself are:
@Sausage Gear progress via upgrading to Legendary +1 etc.
@NewBlacksmurf Gear tied to skill points in light/med/heavy passives
@Faulgor Gear progression with more existing materials
@andypappb16_ESO Undaunted and seasoned gear + CP and trait crafting

Also, some details, numbers perhaps would also help greatly for people to fully understand the suggestions.

If anyone else has an idea how the gear should be handled after the VR removal, please, don't be shy to share it here.

Can you further explain how gear progression would work if tied to skill points because there aren't enough so you'd have to group 3 - 6 tiers in one skill which seems a bit unclear vs associating it to something that we are already familiar with.

I like how Wrothgar handles crafting nodes but that is very unclear and doesn't always work as intended or work as we think it should based on how it was explained. To me, using motifs or something like a motif for post 50 gear progression makes sense as this is already a concept we use today and its very clear.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Old: How gear should look after VR removal

Old: How gear should look after VR removal 67 votes