I did vet White-Gold Tower with a group where people had about 250-300 cp on average, which is about the number you have if you had a v14 when 1.6 launched and you have played 7-10h per week.
It was a lot of fun to figure out how the fights work and I'm looking forward to spend multiple evenings in the Imperial Prison and hope to complete it before it gets nerfed.

asneakybanana wrote: »

It's an average of 2.25 cp a day which is a pretty average amount and can be done with about 3 hours a day of playing regularly

2,25 CP a day with 3 hours/day is nearly 1cp/hour : that's not average, that's grinding rhythm. Many players do non-XP activities during their playtime (raids, farm, trade, socializing), and 3 hours a day, every single day, is FAR ABOVE average.

That's what hardcore players don't get : you are a minority. Many, many players play completely differently, enjoy slow, immersive, non-xp- oriented play. The question whether dungeons levels should be adapted to their level or not is a different issue. All I'm saying is : your level of CP is not average, your level of play is not average. That's all.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Please do not exaggerate on the negative end either. I don't know of a single player in the guilds I belong to on EU or formerly in NA that I do not have at least one main with 400 plus CPs. The system went live well over eight months ago and those that have been playing actively the entire time, and especially those with more than one Vet level alt, can easily get to that number without playing 10 hours a day. If all you have is one main and play less often, then yes you will have less than that.

- Then you belong to hardcore 10 h/day players / grinders. Normal players DO NOT have 400 CP.
- CP is account wide so I don't understand what you mean by "at least one main with 400 CP"
- The system went live in the first week of March so that's 6 months , not 8.

Believe me, 400 CP is NOT average and your vision is distorted. Playing 3 hours / day is already above average in terms of play time.

As I said, I have no real opinion on this mini-nerf for these 2 dungeons. But what I know is no, they are not easy at all, even if you understand the mechanics, they're very difficult. It's not average diffculty. And if it depends on 400+ CP or on VR16 gear, then it's VERY difficult. If not TOO difficult.

No one in the guilds I have played in play 10 hrs a day, so you're just wasting your time insisting on that. If you consider "normal" to be only those people that play less than three hours a day your are really narrow in your view. MMOs embrace all range of play times and there is no ONE normal for all. As is, again NO one I play with spends 10 hrs a day playing, and most of us, myself included do NOT grind we just play the game content. And again, no you do not need 400 Cps in the first place to clear any of these dungeons, as proven already by plenty of ppl on PTS level difficulty in v14 gear.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Please do not exaggerate on the negative end either. I don't know of a single player in the guilds I belong to on EU or formerly in NA that I do not have at least one main with 400 plus CPs. The system went live well over eight months ago and those that have been playing actively the entire time, and especially those with more than one Vet level alt, can easily get to that number without playing 10 hours a day. If all you have is one main and play less often, then yes you will have less than that.

- Then you belong to hardcore 10 h/day players / grinders. Normal players DO NOT have 400 CP.
- CP is account wide so I don't understand what you mean by "at least one main with 400 CP"
- The system went live in the first week of March so that's 6 months , not 8.

Believe me, 400 CP is NOT average and your vision is distorted. Playing 3 hours / day is already above average in terms of play time.

As I said, I have no real opinion on this mini-nerf for these 2 dungeons. But what I know is no, they are not easy at all, even if you understand the mechanics, they're very difficult. It's not average diffculty. And if it depends on 400+ CP or on VR16 gear, then it's VERY difficult. If not TOO difficult.

If you don't play 3 hours a day then you wouldn't even play enough time in the day to clear the dungeon this thread is about. On my first attempt at white-gold on the pts took 4+ hours and even with that experience our first shot on live took well over 2. Also I do not play 10 hours a day pretty much ever as I work 10-12 hours a day 7 days a week so the most I ever really get to play is 6 hours or so. I could go in there with 0 cp running my v12-14 gear and still have pretty much no problem. It's an l2p issue not a grind more issue.

Alcast wrote: »

The new vet dungeons difficulty is fine, why would you nerf it? It is supposed to be difficult, like ZOS said at the beginning.

Normal mode is for "not very experienced" players.
Vet Mode is for experienced players.

There are plenty of other Vet Dungeons like CoA CoH, Wayrest etc where it already is a walk through the garden

Hard Mode is a gear check and gear check only if you think it's skill based .... Lolz

Try them before nerf with crafted white green or heck even blue sets see how your "skill" does for you

If you have best in slot items it's all going to be face roll once mechanics figured out

So few of the population has best in slot and never will so they find a sweet spot to tune the content to to keep the most players subscribed ... Business 101

If you want it to be more of a challenge don't wear best in slot gear find the sweet spot the content is geared toward

But at the end of the day ... It's just gated content by a gear check

Skills ... Lolz ... Mmo players crack me up when they say that

Ping rates ... Lag ... Macros ... No macros ... Arthritis ... Eyesight ... Too many variables

The only skill in an mmo comes with two equally geared and equally macroed or not macroed players or teams with very similar pings playing PvP

PvE is never skill based

asneakybanana wrote: »

If you don't play 3 hours a day then you wouldn't even play enough time in the day to clear the dungeon this thread is about. On my first attempt at white-gold on the pts took 4+ hours and even with that experience our first shot on live took well over 2.

... which tends to prove that the difficulty is too high...

Don't get me wrong : I respect that some players want and enjoy very difficult content. And i don't mind that this is given to them.
BUT if it is about dungeons supposed to be part of the gold-pledges-rotation then it should be more accessible to "average", "average" being about players' skills, CP or playtime (all these being related anyway).

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

It's an average of 2.25 cp a day which is a pretty average amount and can be done with about 3 hours a day of playing regularly

2,25 CP a day with 3 hours/day is nearly 1cp/hour : that's not average, that's grinding rhythm. Many players do non-XP activities during their playtime (raids, farm, trade, socializing), and 3 hours a day, every single day, is FAR ABOVE average.

That's what hardcore players don't get : you are a minority. Many, many players play completely differently, enjoy slow, immersive, non-xp- oriented play. The question whether dungeons levels should be adapted to their level or not is a different issue. All I'm saying is : your level of CP is not average, your level of play is not average. That's all.

It's 200k cp an hour. No grinding required for thatthat. Can get it from pvp if your good, can get 2x that running cad silver and gold. Can get it from dsa. Really not much else to do in the game tbh but if none of those are of interest to you then perhaps you would find it more enjoyable to run in circles slaughtering mobs over and over for 1m xp an hour.

LOL, 200 cp an hour is grinding. You can't get a CP (400k) an hour doing silver/gold, I have four VR6s, a VR14 that didn't do gold, and a VR1. My plan with the exp boost from quests, in the IC patch, was to level them all to VR16 to get massive CPS. I started silver with a VR6 magicka NB skipping mobs with speed from double take and concealed weapon while spamming double and cloak.. Skipping all mobs straight to quest objectives back to turn ins.. Not even close to 200k cps an hour. That's with knowledge of already doing silver gold 2 times. You get about 100k without any bonuses. You get about 150k if you kill all the mobs on the way with an AoE grind set up.

1,000,000 xp an hour... ahahaha do you hear yourself? Do you see anyone with 3600 cps? Because... a 10 hour a day player at 1m exp would have 4,500 cps over 6 months. an 8 hour player would have 3600 cps over 6 months, a 6 hour a day player would have 2,700, a 4 hour a day player would 1,800 cps over 6 months, and a 2 hour a day player would have 900.

With the average grinder/hardcore player having 700cp and the top player a few weeks ago with 1k.. I don't think your 1mill an hour exists or we would be seeing capped hardcore grinders already. If the grinders have 700 and the top guy having 1k.. The hardcore grinders earned 4 a day. The top guy getting 5.5 a day. So in a different thread a guy with 1k cps defended himself against someone saying he played all day.. by saying that he played a few hours after work grinding 700k cps an hour. If he's telling the truth about how much he can earn then surely we would see hardcore play 8 hours a day players with 2520 cps? 2,000 cps if they took breaks. Even 6 hour a day hardcore grinders would have 1,900 cps 1,400 with breaks and doing other things.. So either people are lying about how much they earned or there are people with over 2k cps and them and ZoS are being tight lipped about it.

So let's stop shaming people about them not having so many CPs because it's so easy.

I wish I got CP for checking guild stores. I would easily be at 1000 by now.

Amount of CP's as such is not that important for completing content. Your skill, skill of your party members and team work is. There is certain correlation between high number of CP and individual player performance. Most of people with high CP's are spending more time in the game, mostly teaming up and ofcourse better performance is coming with territory. My point is that number of CP's is not cause but result.
There are number of player profiles in this game and at least most represented should get served. Some would like to see nerf coz they think content is just too hard, than we have people who just want better risk/reward ratio than again we have people who are ok with risk/reward as it is. Unfortunately ZOS so far is not trying to cover even those groups they just swing from one to another extreme. Instead of that they should go after smarter approach instead indulging extremes.
This time they didnt succeed to serve casual players nor hardcore players coz content is too difficult for first and not rewarding enough for second group. Drawing difficulty line and drop rate is not that easy coz ESO situation is not that simple. When u get BIS what u will play ? All in all what is replay value of present content - thats main question. ZOS product management with emphasis on communication with player base is lacking ( for example what and why they will nerf and by how much ).
I personally love challenge so thats why i like difficulty as it is but ofc would like to see progress in my performance and for that i would need gear which with this pace i will get just before orsinum release (and i spend in game a lot above average).
To recap - name of the game should be progress and accomplishment. That is what all those main player base groups are looking for just with different definitions of that term and thats what ZOS constantly fail to deliver.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Champion points have a direct impact on players ability to complete and compete in content. Everyone knows this.

It certainly does. No doubt that same player with more CP would outperform himself with lower number of CP. CP matters - but how much ? Is that only variable in performance equation when u compare yourself with competition and interact with environment ? I guess not.

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

It's an average of 2.25 cp a day which is a pretty average amount and can be done with about 3 hours a day of playing regularly

2,25 CP a day with 3 hours/day is nearly 1cp/hour : that's not average, that's grinding rhythm. Many players do non-XP activities during their playtime (raids, farm, trade, socializing), and 3 hours a day, every single day, is FAR ABOVE average.

That's what hardcore players don't get : you are a minority. Many, many players play completely differently, enjoy slow, immersive, non-xp- oriented play. The question whether dungeons levels should be adapted to their level or not is a different issue. All I'm saying is : your level of CP is not average, your level of play is not average. That's all.

It's 200k cp an hour. No grinding required for that.

2.25x400000=900000 CP, divided by 3 = 300K CP/hour. Get your math together please.

you get enlightenment every single day so that is 400000+100000+100000 which is 600000/3=200000. Maybe you should figure out the mechanics before commenting.

Oh, you were referring to raw XP gain (raw = before enlightenment) ? Then you should have mentioned it. However, it makes your argumentation even less valid : 200K XP / hour without enlightenment is REALLY impossible unless you're a power grinder with grinding partner, ideal spot and XP-potions. Every single day during three hours. Good luck...

Personofsecrets wrote: »

More stats, more passives, and more powerful attacks all help players complete content and getting faster times in that content.

Only in Bizaro world would higher strength players be doing something just the same as lower strength players. Ceteris paribus of course.

Yes, ceteris paribus, that's the key thing.

- Same player with more CPs will do better (everybody agrees on that)

Then depending on opinions :

- Bad player with lots of CPs will do better than good player with less CPs (opinion A)
- Good player with less CPs will still do better than bad players with with lots of CPs (opinion B )

That CPs have an impact on character's performance is a fact, the EXTENT of that impact on character's results is highly debatable. But there are countless threads about that.

Waseem wrote: »

i say yes for the nerf. (...) thanks ZOS for the quick react. i think you noticed that over 90% of players who entered these dungeons ended up wiping and never visit again
also dear "expierenced pc players", when was the last time you 3 of you grouped with a noobie and taught him/her a dungeon tactics? did you do that with the new IC dungeons? apparently not.. so keep playing on your own with your own friends/guild and leave the public *** doable by "people out of your league"

Thanks for your sincere opinion!

I'll further discredit the thread editor, as he is not giving one source of information for his statement! What comes after hearsay? The witch hunt! Good work would have been to post a link and to annotate the time (HH:MM:SS) of the statement. No other way!

Francescolg wrote: »

I'll further discredit the thread editor, as he is not giving one source of information for his statement! What comes after hearsay? The witch hunt! Good work would have been to post a link and to annotate the time (HH:MM:SS) of the statement. No other way!

ESO live september 11th 2015. I even quoted the exact phrasing in this very thread. Now if you want more, Google's your friend.