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Bugged enlightenment system! People with 250+ CP's already! Not a good start for 1.6!
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SC0TY999✭✭✭✭
@SC0TY999snips
It's not about ranting, it's about you jumping out your pram to give your 2 cents worth!
Did you care to read the title of the post? I think not so I'll post it again especially for you
"Bugged enlightenment system! People with 250+ CP already! Not a good start for 1.6!"
You jumped straight in there by calling the original poster thoughtless!
When it's other commenters that have taken this out of context, this is a genuine post about the launch state of the CP system.
I have taken up a concern that comes up in any and every thread relating to 1.6 and the CP system. This concern is the fallacious assumption that the CP system is in essence different from - or worse than - any other "advancement system". Especially since that argument is used to justify the claim to limiting the freedom of others (i.e. grinders) to play the way they want.
I also mentioned that the progression curve is not really at a point it needs to be right now. A more flattened progression curve will also help with the issue of people exploiting the bugged enlightenment, as that will very much limit the effectiveness of it.
Furthermore, this thread mentions several times that for some players, the "bugged enlightenment" was a purely UI related effect, in the sense that the "enlightened CP" earned by it were not usable and disappeared after relogging. I reserve judgement on this issue until we have more clarity as to what happened.
Finally, I will mention that I did not by any means tag the issue of "bugged enlightenment" as a thoughtless rant, I called the argument that the CP system is worse than - or different from - other progression systems as one making its facilitator look thoughtless. Big difference.
I apologies
It came across that you were targeting me as being a thoughtless poster, when all I was doing is just pointing out a flaw in the initial launch of the system.
I'm by no means stating that the system isn't good, I actually do like it.
I do know players that had bugged enlightenment not the UI bug, and had managed to gain 150 CP. I myself have had the UI bug numerous of times, so I know that exists. From what I know the perma enlightenment bug also exists and know players that managed to gain 150 CP.
I'm sure the people that managed to gain 150 - 250 + aren't going to hold there hands up either
Just to state also I like your suggestion "A more flattened progression curve will also help with the issue of people exploiting the bugged enlightenment, as that will very much limit the effectiveness of it"
This is the constructive criticism I like that helps the overall health of the game, if ZOS pay attention that is 2 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭ZOS should get rid of the CP system because it doesn't solve the current problems with character progression, it just creates more distance between the skill of the veteran and newbie players. It doesn't solve the problem of grinding or doing Cadwel's quests to reach VR 14.
As for the players getting extra CP, I want to see a screen shot before I believe this is possible. Although with ZOS anything is possible; So I guess my positive and negative statements cancel each other out, so in effect, I just said nothing.0 -
mlstevens42_ESO✭✭✭I think to avoid such things as people getting lots of cp due to exp on critters and such we would be better served by setting a limit per day that one can achieve. Then it matters not how long any one grinds and less need to nerf all exp gains into the ground. If the limit on cps per day were something like 10 a day the most one just starting out in the system today could gain in a year is 3600 cp's. It would make it less likely that any one can find a secret spot that would need to be nerfed. The most that would happen in this case is they hit their daily limit in a shorter amount of time.
Speaking of time I think it takes to long to reach 400k.
My suggestions:
To half the amount of exp needed for one cp from 400k to 200k.
To enable one to get 4 cp at an increased rate.
Add a cap to cp that can be gained during a day to between 5 and 10 a day.
I think something like these suggestions would make the carrot seem attainable but still would take some time achieve. Those with less time should feel less apprehensive about being able to compete in pvp or be able to get groups in pve. Further it will help with new folks to see they are gaining at a decent rate. Even if they do happen to have lives outside of a computer game. I do not think one cp day is enough to keep people interested and there are many that only have a couple of hours (as in two not four or six) to play a day if that much.1 -
Keron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes and no. While I have played WOW for 5 years, I never played it at the bleeding edge. We usually did things slow, normally not getting into the end-end game before the next expansion hit, meaning we normally did not make it into the last raid for each level cap. We were constantly running behind.
Except that it is worse than any other "advancement system" I've seen in a MMO.snippety reading clarity
The one who grinds the most wins - does this sound like a fun system to you?
You mentioned earlier you played WoW for 5 years.
Then you should probably know what a good "advancement system" looks like.
You had your Horizontal Progression in form of talent trees, and character progression via gear.
Gear could be obtained by raiding, PvPing or grinding faction reputations.
All playstyles were covered, and you were never forced to play 24/7 just to keep up with the other guy. You didn't feel like a loser, if you one day went to RP in a tavern or something (and ended up with less CP than others as a result).
That meant that although there was usually a full time gear value reset on every level cap increase (which in and of itself is a bad design), those that had the "last raid" gear would progress much faster into the new content than we could. The same vicious circle that is attributed to the CP system.
Also, I do not think of the talent trees as horizontal progression. That was very much the essence of vertical progression, meaning that unless you maxed your talents you could in no way compete. This is similar to leveling the skills and skill points in ESO.
The horizontal progression in WOW was the gear part and the tier steps within a certain level cap were so overwhelmingly strong that it more or less also made it impossible to compete with someone having next tier gear.
It was actually what drove me away from WOW after WotLK: It required so much /played that it started to have a negative impact on my relationship IRL. I did not have that issue in ESO "classic", even with the Vet grind and although I mainly PVP'd. I stepped away from ESO around mid December last year and only came back for 1.6, I cannot yet make a final judgement on the impact of the CP system on my "funnies".
I do agree that the current state of the CP system does have that "at least inclined if not flat out vertical progression" feeling to it. Hence my proposal to "flatten the curve". But that may be more than enough to return to the feeling I had in "ESO classic".1 -
mhmfrogub17_ESO✭✭✭Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.0
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Sky Chancellor✭✭✭I posted on here that here needs to be a CP cap. Some number which is a few hundred or less. I don't think that kills the system, I think it enhances it. It makes choices more meaningful. A few hundred points will still create a gap, but veteran players will always have a gap in an MMO. That's the way it should be anyways. I am in favor of any CP fix that includes much much less points that are available to players now.
I would like to hear what people think on how many points should be available as a cap.1 -
Kragorn✭✭✭✭✭
Sorry, no, you're forced to do the dailies, EVERY DAY otherwise you'd lose ground on your guildies.All playstyles were covered, and you were never forced to play 24/7 just to keep up with the other guy. You didn't feel like a loser, if you one day went to RP in a tavern or something (and ended up with less CP than others as a result).
Daily rep. grinds in Pandaria reached the truly asinine level where you need to max one rep. grind in order to unlock ANOTHER rep. grind you HAD to do to get REQUIRED crafting recipes, etc. and the rep. was only available on the dailies.
Maybe WOW doesn't have the 24/7 aspect ESO now does, but you're very wrong to suggest you can 'play as you want' in WOW without suffering a penalty: Blizzard know that, that's why they filled WOD with Garrison dailies that can take HOURS to complete.
Edited by Kragorn on March 9, 2015 12:25PM0 -
McDoogs✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?Edited by McDoogs on March 9, 2015 12:29PM0 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!1 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Also you will never see the evidence because players will fear loosing those CP's ascertained.2 -
McDoogs✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Also you will never see the evidence because players will fear loosing those CP's ascertained.
That a convenient line, but ZOS has never actually doen that. I leveled 2 characters to VR10 using the Darkshade Caverns boss exploit back in release, talked about it here and in reddit, and even talked in game to GMs about it. I was never rolled back.
There wasnt an unlimited enlightenment bug. There was an instance in Craglorn with mobs that gave pre-spellscar nerf xp per mob that people were grinding efficiently for a solid 600-800k xp/hour + an extra 4 CP of enlightenment per day. Do that for 4 straight 20 hour days and you have a big fat stack of CP that will never be rolled back.0 -
McDoogs✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!
Oh you know a guy huh? lol0 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!
Oh you know a guy huh? lol
You're not allowed to use "lol" on threads!0 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!
Oh you know a guy huh? lol
You're not allowed to use "lol" on threads!
No constructive criticism from you I see, just another forum troll!
0 -
McDoogs✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!
Oh you know a guy huh? lol
You're not allowed to use "lol" on threads!
No constructive criticism from you I see, just another forum troll!
Can't respond to such a convincing argument. "I know a guy" .... damn, that's hard factual evidence!Edited by McDoogs on March 9, 2015 12:53PM0 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Also you will never see the evidence because players will fear loosing those CP's ascertained.
That a convenient line, but ZOS has never actually doen that. I leveled 2 characters to VR10 using the Darkshade Caverns boss exploit back in release, talked about it here and in reddit, and even talked in game to GMs about it. I was never rolled back.
There wasnt an unlimited enlightenment bug. There was an instance in Craglorn with mobs that gave pre-spellscar nerf xp per mob that people were grinding efficiently for a solid 600-800k xp/hour + an extra 4 CP of enlightenment per day. Do that for 4 straight 20 hour days and you have a big fat stack of CP that will never be rolled back.
Exactly. Funny thing is however much I disliked it, the Catacombs wasn't even close to a bug or an exploit - it was simply running a dungeon really, really fast and the fact that the mobs gave a lot of XP. I don't see how anyone can be rolled back over this, no matter how much it sucks that people gained a huge headstart.
The unlimited 'E' bug doesn't and has never existed imo as absolutely no one has been able to provide anything more relevant than "I heard from someone who heard from someone who heard from someone". I've talked to a lot of people and no one has experienced this. The only bug that I have heard of in regards to 'E' is that UI bug where the client thinks you are enlightened but you really aren't.0 -
McDoogs✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Also you will never see the evidence because players will fear loosing those CP's ascertained.
That a convenient line, but ZOS has never actually doen that. I leveled 2 characters to VR10 using the Darkshade Caverns boss exploit back in release, talked about it here and in reddit, and even talked in game to GMs about it. I was never rolled back.
There wasnt an unlimited enlightenment bug. There was an instance in Craglorn with mobs that gave pre-spellscar nerf xp per mob that people were grinding efficiently for a solid 600-800k xp/hour + an extra 4 CP of enlightenment per day. Do that for 4 straight 20 hour days and you have a big fat stack of CP that will never be rolled back.
Exactly. Funny thing is however much I disliked it, the Catacombs wasn't even close to a bug or an exploit - it was simply running a dungeon really, really fast and the fact that the mobs gave a lot of XP. I don't see how anyone can be rolled back over this, no matter how much it sucks that people gained a huge headstart.
The unlimited 'E' bug doesn't and has never existed imo as absolutely no one has been able to provide anything more relevant than "I heard from someone who heard from someone who heard from someone". I've talked to a lot of people and no one has experienced this. The only bug that I have heard of in regards to 'E' is that UI bug where the client thinks you are enlightened but you really aren't.
Absolutely, what's more all the rumors we have conflict with each other. One guy says that pvp keep swapping triggered it, another said that it happened when you cast certain buffs in a group...all bull sh!tEdited by McDoogs on March 9, 2015 12:56PM0 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!
Oh you know a guy huh? lol
You're not allowed to use "lol" on threads!
No constructive criticism from you I see, just another forum troll!
Can't respond to such a convincing argument. "I know a guy" .... damn, that's hard factual evidence!
Again forum rules you're not allowed to name people! Not my rules but the rules of the forum.
I'm telling you that I had enlightenment for 6 CP straight! And I got enlightenment more than a lot of players I was grinding with. Some players got it more than me, and as I said 1 or 2 had it for 24hrs.
How can I provide evidence I don't have access to?
But as I clearly state some of the players I was grinding with have confirmed they now have a CP rank of 150.
Mine is 96!
If you would like a screenshot of mine I'd gladly provide.0 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!
Oh you know a guy huh? lol
You're not allowed to use "lol" on threads!
No constructive criticism from you I see, just another forum troll!
Can't respond to such a convincing argument. "I know a guy" .... damn, that's hard factual evidence!
Again forum rules you're not allowed to name people! Not my rules but the rules of the forum.
I'm telling you that I had enlightenment for 6 CP straight! And I got enlightenment more than a lot of players I was grinding with. Some players got it more than me, and as I said 1 or 2 had it for 24hrs.
How can I provide evidence I don't have access to?
But as I clearly state some of the players I was grinding with have confirmed they now have a CP rank of 150.
Mine is 96!
If you would like a screenshot of mine I'd gladly provide.
Going forward we need to ask ZOS to find a resolution to this problem, if it did truly exist? And as I state I gained E for 6CP straight, so nothing would surprise me!
As some people including myself suggested raise everyone to 100CP, and the people who have over this, nerf them to 100CP.
Edited by SC0TY999 on March 9, 2015 1:06PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes and no. While I have played WOW for 5 years, I never played it at the bleeding edge. We usually did things slow, normally not getting into the end-end game before the next expansion hit, meaning we normally did not make it into the last raid for each level cap. We were constantly running behind.
Except that it is worse than any other "advancement system" I've seen in a MMO.snippety reading clarity
The one who grinds the most wins - does this sound like a fun system to you?
You mentioned earlier you played WoW for 5 years.
Then you should probably know what a good "advancement system" looks like.
You had your Horizontal Progression in form of talent trees, and character progression via gear.
Gear could be obtained by raiding, PvPing or grinding faction reputations.
All playstyles were covered, and you were never forced to play 24/7 just to keep up with the other guy. You didn't feel like a loser, if you one day went to RP in a tavern or something (and ended up with less CP than others as a result).
That's strange. I remember reaching the level cap in WoW in about a month or so (I was slow back then), it took me a week for 60-70 after TBC. I don't think many people thought the leveling took "too long" in WoW, not even in vanilla...That meant that although there was usually a full time gear value reset on every level cap increase (which in and of itself is a bad design), those that had the "last raid" gear would progress much faster into the new content than we could. The same vicious circle that is attributed to the CP system.
That is a fair point. Better gear made it easier to do harder content, but I believe this is how it should be, as it creates tiers of meaningful progression & depth to the gameplay. I can understand not everyone liking it though (Blizzard also made it easier to get good gear in subsequent expansions).
Also, the analogy is correct when it comes to CP system as well: people with more CP will have easier time grinding more CP (more dmg, less dmg taken etc).Also, I do not think of the talent trees as horizontal progression. That was very much the essence of vertical progression, meaning that unless you maxed your talents you could in no way compete. This is similar to leveling the skills and skill points in ESO.
Skills & Skill Points in ESO are essentially Horizontal Progression (except during leveling, which is Vertical by nature). Once you reach VR14, you will have enough skill points to unlock every passive you need. Every skill point gain after this only expands the amount of options you have available (e.g. lets you use skill X without having to respec, in case you want to try something different).
The difference is that talent system in the example game (WoW) simply ended when you reached max level.
After that, of course you had talent builds that were stronger than others, just like you have builds in ESO that are stronger than others. That is just min-maxing.The horizontal progression in WOW was the gear part and the tier steps within a certain level cap were so overwhelmingly strong that it more or less also made it impossible to compete with someone having next tier gear.
Well, it wasn't impossible to beat someone in better gear (I enjoyed trashing T2 geared people with my blue geared Rogue). If these people had better gear, they had probably earned it. It sure was challenging though, which motivated me to start raiding for the first time in MMOs, and I found out that I actually enjoyed it (even to this date)
It was actually what drove me away from WOW after WotLK: It required so much /played that it started to have a negative impact on my relationship IRL. I did not have that issue in ESO "classic", even with the Vet grind and although I mainly PVP'd. I stepped away from ESO around mid December last year and only came back for 1.6, I cannot yet make a final judgement on the impact of the CP system on my "funnies".
Fair enough. I never felt in WoW that it required me to play 24/7. A lot, yes, but only in order to progress in the raid environment and/or become a better player in order to do so. I can understand people feeling intimidated by the whole affair however.
Once you had a raid in farm status, even playing 5-6 hours/week was usually enough to clear the raids before reset. PvP was/is a different matter, where you had to play slightly more in order to keep good Arena rating or PvP Rank, back in the Honor days. Not unlike Emperorship in ESO come to think of it.
Regardless, if you felt you had to play a lot in WoW to stay competitive, you're in for a rude awakening when the implications of Champion System start to show... just try fighting someone with 2x the CPs you have
I do agree that the current state of the CP system does have that "at least inclined if not flat out vertical progression" feeling to it. Hence my proposal to "flatten the curve". But that may be more than enough to return to the feeling I had in "ESO classic".
It doesn't matter how much they flatten the curve. Here's an example:
Player A plays 5 hours a day. He enjoys doing trials/PvP with his friends, and grinds only an hour or two a day.
Player B plays 15 hours a day. He might/might not enjoy grinding, but he does that 15 hours a day.
When Player A gets to 100 Points, Player B will have 900. A difference of 800 Points.
When Player A gets to 200 Points, Player B will have 1800. A difference of 1600 Points.
The gap will only grow more and more, and the "grinder" will achieve a significant advantage over others.
Whether it takes him 800 Points to do so or 1600, it doesn't matter. He will have it.
Where as in the WoW example, Player B was limited by his (and/or his guilds') player skill and the gear available.
So, while it can be argued whether Vertical end game progression is a good or bad thing, the question at the moment is this:
Would you like it to be based on player skill, or time spent grinding?Edited by DDuke on March 9, 2015 1:16PM3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry, no, you're forced to do the dailies, EVERY DAY otherwise you'd lose ground on your guildies.All playstyles were covered, and you were never forced to play 24/7 just to keep up with the other guy. You didn't feel like a loser, if you one day went to RP in a tavern or something (and ended up with less CP than others as a result).
Daily rep. grinds in Pandaria reached the truly asinine level where you need to max one rep. grind in order to unlock ANOTHER rep. grind you HAD to do to get REQUIRED crafting recipes, etc. and the rep. was only available on the dailies.
Maybe WOW doesn't have the 24/7 aspect ESO now does, but you're very wrong to suggest you can 'play as you want' in WOW without suffering a penalty: Blizzard know that, that's why they filled WOD with Garrison dailies that can take HOURS to complete.
Ok, my apologies if this is the case.
I stopped playing mid-TBC, so I don't know how necessary the grinds became. I liked them as an alternative way to getting good gear, but if they became a "must do", that's a bad thing.
Do they really grant you BiS gear? I thought mythic raids and/or PvP did that.
Is there an attunement that requires you to grind dailies in order to get into those raids or PvP?Edited by DDuke on March 9, 2015 1:14PM0 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The title states everything!
What's the official word on this from ZOS?
The people with 250+ CP's are going to be far OP'd compared to everyone else!
You should just roll everything back so everyone is back on 70 CP and disable enlightenment until it's fixed!
It's going to get out of hand!
@ZOS_GinaBruno
I have to admit although I have earned several CP already I'd like to see this rolled back immediately and stopped, very disturbing that you are allowing ppl to exploit the game for so long, im having flashbacks of release when people were vet before the game even released....
At least roll everyone back to 100CP and put diminishing returns on all the mobs, players and keep/resource bonuses when the same guild keeps rushing into it to feed their guildy.1 -
McDoogs✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!
Oh you know a guy huh? lol
You're not allowed to use "lol" on threads!
No constructive criticism from you I see, just another forum troll!
Can't respond to such a convincing argument. "I know a guy" .... damn, that's hard factual evidence!
Again forum rules you're not allowed to name people! Not my rules but the rules of the forum.
I'm telling you that I had enlightenment for 6 CP straight! And I got enlightenment more than a lot of players I was grinding with. Some players got it more than me, and as I said 1 or 2 had it for 24hrs.
How can I provide evidence I don't have access to?
But as I clearly state some of the players I was grinding with have confirmed they now have a CP rank of 150.
Mine is 96!
If you would like a screenshot of mine I'd gladly provide.
I have 90 and I've barely played the last 6 days. You clearly are not a hardcore grinder. 16 of that was 4 days of +4CP enlightenment. How can those players have confirmed anything? All they did was tell you what their CP was at, which is exactly all that we have done.
Besides, solo grinding world mobs can easily net you 400k xp/hour (that's what i get on my low VR character that i leveling to vr1 specifically to grind CP). You can see how 12 hour days at 1CP/hour plus 4 days of +4CP enlightened would easily get you to 150+ by the end of the weekend, no need for any mythical 'unlimited enlightenment' bug. Btw, if all you are doing is grinding in one spot and get the UI bug, you arent going to know that you actually arent enlightened sry to say.
Edited by McDoogs on March 9, 2015 1:26PM1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The unlimited E bug has been confirmed by ZOS, it's the reason they removed Cyrodill buffs. From what I could read in other posts, it involved capturing keeps in Cyro or what ever.
So it's pretty much likely that people with that bug went to the catacombs with unlimited E and grinded their *** to more than 200CP.2 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »Easiest thing the do is the ban anyone that used the bug for a minimum of 30 days.
What bug? The one people are crying about that there is no evidence ever actually existed?
Don't comment on things you know nothing about!
The bug did exist I have no idea if it's been fixed now, as of the 08/02/2015 late night hotfix enlightenment only last for 1 CP which is what I've personally experienced, beforehand I personally had enlightenment for 6 CP and I'm telling you, that I know players that had it for 24hrs (confirmed by them)
Go and do you trolling elsewhere!
Oh you know a guy huh? lol
You're not allowed to use "lol" on threads!
No constructive criticism from you I see, just another forum troll!
Can't respond to such a convincing argument. "I know a guy" .... damn, that's hard factual evidence!
Again forum rules you're not allowed to name people! Not my rules but the rules of the forum.
I'm telling you that I had enlightenment for 6 CP straight! And I got enlightenment more than a lot of players I was grinding with. Some players got it more than me, and as I said 1 or 2 had it for 24hrs.
How can I provide evidence I don't have access to?
But as I clearly state some of the players I was grinding with have confirmed they now have a CP rank of 150.
Mine is 96!
If you would like a screenshot of mine I'd gladly provide.
I have 90 and I've barely played the last 6 days. You clearly are not a hardcore grinder. 16 of that was 4 days of +4CP enlightenment. How can those players have confirmed anything? All they did was tell you what their CP was at, which is exactly all that we have done.
Besides, solo grinding world mobs can easily net you 400k xp/hour (that's what i get on my low VR character that i leveling to vr1 specifically to grind CP). You can see how 12 hour days at 1CP/hour plus 4 days of +4CP enlightened would easily get you to 150+ by the end of the weekend, no need for any mythical 'unlimited enlightenment' bug. Btw, if all you are doing is grinding in one spot and get the UI bug, you arent going to know that you actually arent enlightened sry to say.
I was grinding the same spot in Craglorn that everyone else was grinding! and as for vr1 character grinding I have thought about and tested that already and that is a viable grinding option.
I wouldn't call myself a hardcore grinder, I'm a hardcore PvP'r much more fun! ]
I know about the UI bug and know when I have that and when I don't to find out if it's real E just zone to another area.
I learn't a lot about the system in the last 3 days!
Edited by SC0TY999 on March 9, 2015 1:37PM0 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭If there had been no problem with the englightenment actually giving people more CPs than they should have gotten, there would not have been a clearly stated acknowledgement by ZOS that in addition to the Cyrodill Keep exploit, "more Enlightenment was being given per day than intended." Hence a patch for BOTH issues. They fixed it. End of story. Arguing incessantly about whether it did or did not happen is a total waste of time --- and ingoring ZoS' own response to the issue.2 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭The unlimited E bug has been confirmed by ZOS, it's the reason they removed Cyrodill buffs. From what I could read in other posts, it involved capturing keeps in Cyro or what ever.
So it's pretty much likely that people with that bug went to the catacombs with unlimited E and grinded their *** to more than 200CP.
Thank you!0 -
Keron✭✭✭✭✭
✭@DDuke
Thanks for that detailed reply. I'll just take up two points you made for further discussion. I can relate to your arguments and I think the main difference between our points of view is personal perception.
Not 24/7, no, but at some point I felt the obligation to progress (reputation, crafting, gear, choose one or more) daily for several hours to not let my peers down in regards to the raids. But as I said, we never were that good that we could consider the top tier raids on farm, so that contributes a lot to my experience.Fair enough. I never felt in WoW that it required me to play 24/7. A lot, yes, but only in order to progress in the raid environment and/or become a better player in order to do so. I can understand people feeling intimidated by the whole affair however.
Once you had a raid in farm status, even playing 5-6 hours/week was usually enough to clear the raids before reset. PvP was/is a different matter, where you had to play slightly more in order to keep good Arena rating or PvP Rank, back in the Honor days. Not unlike Emperorship in ESO come to think of it.
Regardless, if you felt you had to play a lot in WoW to stay competitive, you're in for a rude awakening when the implications of Champion System start to show... just try fighting someone with 2x the CPs you have
And it was already bad for me as VR1 in Cyrodiil against the VR14s. But the easy going group style of play in ESO PvP compensated a lot of that for me personally. In the end it comes down to personal perception for everyone. I doubt that the CP system will change that aspect for me significantly.
The point I tried to make with my proposal was that with a flatter curve, this difference will reduce in effect once both players from your example pass the 360CP mark. All on top of that will broaden the options for the players (-> horizontal development) but not elevates them to a new power level (-> vertical progression), provided the per-point-benefits of each CP spent have diminishing returns (as they are supposed to have).It doesn't matter how much they flatten the curve. Here's an example:
Player A plays 5 hours a day. He enjoys doing trials/PvP with his friends, and grinds only an hour or two a day.
Player B plays 15 hours a day. He might/might not enjoy grinding, but he does that 15 hours a day.
When Player A gets to 100 Points, Player B will have 900. A difference of 800 Points.
When Player A gets to 200 Points, Player B will have 1800. A difference of 1600 Points.
The gap will only grow more and more, and the "grinder" will achieve a significant advantage over others.
Whether it takes him 800 Points to do so or 1600, it doesn't matter. He will have it.
Where as in the WoW example, Player B was limited by his (and/or his guilds') player skill and the gear available.
So, while it can be argued whether Vertical end game progression is a good or bad thing, the question at the moment is this:
Would you like it to be based on player skill, or time spent grinding?
I considered the passives unlocked at certain points spent as a more significant benefit than the value of each individual point. I may have underestimated the individual point gains there.
To answer your final question: I would like to see a progression system that rewards both, time spent as well as personal skill. If a player reaches his personal skill ceiling (wherever that may be), he should still be able to see slight improvements to his toon's power due to time spent in game. But if compared to another player with a much higher skill ceiling, he should not be able to best him only based on additional time spent grinding CPs (or whatever else).
I don't think that this is a realistic goal, but at least it should be the target to be aimed at in designing a progression system.1 -
SC0TY999✭✭✭✭If there had been no problem with the englightenment actually giving people more CPs than they should have gotten, there would not have been a clearly stated acknowledgement by ZOS that in addition to the Cyrodill Keep exploit, "more Enlightenment was being given per day than intended." Hence a patch for BOTH issues. They fixed it. End of story. Arguing incessantly about whether it did or did not happen is a total waste of time --- and ingoring ZoS' own response to the issue.
Exactly hence the reason for this discussion about what would be fair to everyone i.e. nerfing the points that players achieved through the exploit to a certain level and raising the rest of us to a certain level to help rebalance the mess.
I don't understand why people feel the need to troll rather than providing something constructive to the discussion?0 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭If there had been no problem with the englightenment actually giving people more CPs than they should have gotten, there would not have been a clearly stated acknowledgement by ZOS that in addition to the Cyrodill Keep exploit, "more Enlightenment was being given per day than intended." Hence a patch for BOTH issues. They fixed it. End of story. Arguing incessantly about whether it did or did not happen is a total waste of time --- and ingoring ZoS' own response to the issue.
Exactly hence the reason for this discussion about what would be fair to everyone i.e. nerfing the points that players achieved through the exploit to a certain level and raising the rest of us to a certain level to help rebalance the mess.
I don't understand why people feel the need to troll rather than providing something constructive to the discussion?
I have responded to this and several other threads about it and all I see are people constantly arguing that it didn't even happen. I am not trolling here anymore than you are by responding with your point of view. The last several pages of the thread have been not but people trying to say it never even happened. If you want to respond to the OPs initial proposal then DO it.2
This discussion has been closed.