Proposal for a Skill modification for Sorcerer

Memnock

Since i see that in the new DB DLC apparently everyone gets a shield and our single target spam skill ( Trapping Webs ) will become something else , i thought i might chime in with a suggestion for a change , although i don't think it will make it in this the DB DLC , but maybe my idea has has merrit for a future balance patch

This skill change involves the spell "Dark Exchange" along with maybe 1 other change to the Blood Magic passive and the idea came to me when i was playing a recently created NB alt , while thinking of build ideas for my templar alt and started to kind of see a bit of a pattern with spam skills that the rest of the classes have that also refund HP, hopefully its a decent idea , so here goes :

- Dark Exchange- The base skill is now a melee range ( 5 meters ) skill that does X Magic ( or lightning since we got that theme for our class ) damage and refunds y% of the damage done as HP over 10 seconds
- Dark Deed - This morph is still a melee range attack but it now scales off Stamina and does physical damage
- Dark Ritual - This morph has the range of the skill increase by 23 meters ( so its in line with the rest of the ranged attacks ) and obviously it scales off Magicka

Now for the passive "Blood Magic" : this passive no longer heals the caster of dark magic spells for 8% of the HP , since we got a skill for that now , but instead , it adds a regen component to the morphs for the Dark Exchange spell , namely , it provides a % regen boost for the appropriate skill ; as an example : Dark Deed , being a stamina morph will benefit from a X% stamina regen boost for 7 seconds and of course , the magicka one works in the same way.

Of course the numbers and percentages are left to the dev guys and the theorycrafters who know their stuff way better than i do

Please let me know what you think , constructive criticism always welcome and maybe if I am lucky, @ZOS_GinaBruno may take a peek at my post and if she finds the thing interesting could bring it up to the dev guys's attention.

phaneub17_ESO

But I like Dark Conversion on my Stam Sorc. I can take my excess Stamina to get more Magicka to cast Critical Surge, Degeneration or Restraining Prison for AOE blasting without having to invest into Magicka points or Magicka recovery.

Birdovic

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But I like Dark Conversion on my Stam Sorc. I can take my excess Stamina to get more Magicka to cast Critical Surge, Degeneration or Restraining Prison for AOE blasting without having to invest into Magicka points or Magicka recovery.

Interesting, could you give me some input, on what Abilities you slot on your stam sorc? I always love trying new stuff

Dracan_Fontom

That seems like it would fit on a Nightblade better.

susmitds

That wont work.

What you propose is already there as Sweeps for templars and Strife for nightblades.

Memnock

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But I like Dark Conversion on my Stam Sorc. I can take my excess Stamina to get more Magicka to cast Critical Surge, Degeneration or Restraining Prison for AOE blasting without having to invest into Magicka points or Magicka recovery.

But wouldn't you like to have your own dedicated stamina oriented attack better ?! I don't play stamina , stuff in ESO so i don't know how the builds work on that side ; but from my perspective , i thought i would shoot 2 birds with 1 stone , namely a spam skill that all classes but sorcs have built into their trees along with a less clunky resource gain bonus.

The self heal and mana gain from the magicka morph isn't really viable in dungeon runs where that kind of resource gain in whatever role you choose is a priority ; maybe in certain situations in pvp , where you get to escape and hide then regain ur health and mana , but even then potion poping coupled with a healing staff are better and more viable options

susmitds wrote: »

That wont work.

What you propose is already there as Sweeps for templars and Strife for nightblades.

Yes , so why shouldn't a sorcerer get the same treatment ? If i remember correctly , even DKs get some sort of version of this kind of thing , with healing coming from their dots ? I don't play a DK so i can't say for sure.

The thing is that right now the devs seem to be providing all classes with kind of the same tool set , with a bit of a different spin on it , so i figure , why not have the same sweet deal on the sorc as well ?

susmitds

Memnock wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But I like Dark Conversion on my Stam Sorc. I can take my excess Stamina to get more Magicka to cast Critical Surge, Degeneration or Restraining Prison for AOE blasting without having to invest into Magicka points or Magicka recovery.

But wouldn't you like to have your own dedicated stamina oriented attack better ?! I don't play stamina , stuff in ESO so i don't know how the builds work on that side ; but from my perspective , i thought i would shoot 2 birds with 1 stone , namely a spam skill that all classes but sorcs have built into their trees along with a less clunky resource gain bonus.

The self heal and mana gain from the magicka morph isn't really viable in dungeon runs where that kind of resource gain in whatever role you choose is a priority ; maybe in certain situations in pvp , where you get to escape and hide then regain ur health and mana , but even then potion poping coupled with a healing staff are better and more viable options

susmitds wrote: »

That wont work.

What you propose is already there as Sweeps for templars and Strife for nightblades.

Yes , so why shouldn't a sorcerer get the same treatment ? If i remember correctly , even DKs get some sort of version of this kind of thing , with healing coming from their dots ? I don't play a DK so i can't say for sure.

The thing is that right now the devs seem to be providing all classes with kind of the same tool set , with a bit of a different spin on it , so i figure , why not have the same sweet deal on the sorc as well ?

The healing DoT is also available from the Dual Wield skill line.
However, instant hard hitting spammable skills with heavy returns or other kinds of extra benefits is a class defining feature of the Nightblades.
And the high damage channels with other bonuses are a class defining feature of Templars.

I think, you are missing a basic pattern of the classes.

Dragonknight - DoT with constant pressure specialty
Nightblade - Instant on demand burst specialty
Templar - Channel with controll specialty
Sorcerer - Random extreme burst specialty

That is something that the devs is sticking to, even with all skill changes from beta.

I don't think these class boundaries are ever going to be diluted, as far as class skills are concerned.

phaneub17_ESO

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But I like Dark Conversion on my Stam Sorc. I can take my excess Stamina to get more Magicka to cast Critical Surge, Degeneration or Restraining Prison for AOE blasting without having to invest into Magicka points or Magicka recovery.

Interesting, could you give me some input, on what Abilities you slot on your stam sorc? I always love trying new stuff

I play a PvE double Bow Stam Sorc when solo I use both pets actively, while in groups I swap them out for more utility. Main bar is for single target using a Precise Bow with Focused Aim, Critical Surge, Venom Arrow, Degeneration, and Evil Hunter with around 80% crit rate. My second bar is for AOE using a Sharpened Bow with Scorched Earth, Thundering Presence, Acid Spray, Dark Conversion, and Restraining Prison. The Prison is an amazing group root, letting me go blast the crap out of large trash packs.

Memnock

[/quote]

The healing DoT is also available from the Dual Wield skill line.
However, instant hard hitting spammable skills with heavy returns or other kinds of extra benefits is a class defining feature of the Nightblades.
And the high damage channels with other bonuses are a class defining feature of Templars.

I think, you are missing a basic pattern of the classes.

Dragonknight - DoT with constant pressure specialty
Nightblade - Instant on demand burst specialty
Templar - Channel with controll specialty
Sorcerer - Random extreme burst specialty

That is something that the devs is sticking to, even with all skill changes from beta.

I don't think these class boundaries are ever going to be diluted, as far as class skills are concerned.[/quote]

Agreed on templars and NBs , but at the same time , our class defining feature namely Hardened Ward is getting is duration cut in less than half on top of the fact that when the DLC hits, everyone will have access to this feature on top of their self healing and alternative defensive tools.

Also , our spam skill that we used when dual wielding , trapping webs , is transforming into some ground based thing for stamina only.

So as far as i can see , even from your description of the classes , 3 out of 4 have a clear path that they are following and as you said : " Sorcerer - Random extreme burst specialty " - this thing doesn't work if we don't get to keep the stuff that made this play style viable and our toys are shared with everyone else , hence my proposed skill change.

If the rest of the guys are getting access to skills that are on par with what we have on top of their own tools , why now provide sorcerers with some of the stuff that the other classses have as well ?

The Sorcerer class has been the first thing i ever played in this game when the game launched and when i came back after quite a long pause , its the first thing i picked up to level to V16 and i really like the class , but if a homogenization process is already taking place , with some thematic spins to them , i do not see why should Sorcerers be left out , since , again , 3 out of 4 classes get this treatment and now with DC DLC will get our benefits( shields ) on top of what they have , but loose nothing.

susmitds

Memnock wrote: »

The healing DoT is also available from the Dual Wield skill line.
However, instant hard hitting spammable skills with heavy returns or other kinds of extra benefits is a class defining feature of the Nightblades.
And the high damage channels with other bonuses are a class defining feature of Templars.

I think, you are missing a basic pattern of the classes.

Dragonknight - DoT with constant pressure specialty
Nightblade - Instant on demand burst specialty
Templar - Channel with controll specialty
Sorcerer - Random extreme burst specialty

That is something that the devs is sticking to, even with all skill changes from beta.

I don't think these class boundaries are ever going to be diluted, as far as class skills are concerned.

Agreed on templars and NBs , but at the same time , our class defining feature namely Hardened Ward is getting is duration cut in less than half on top of the fact that when the DLC hits, everyone will have access to this feature on top of their self healing and alternative defensive tools.

Also , our spam skill that we used when dual wielding , trapping webs , is transforming into some ground based thing for stamina only.

So as far as i can see , even from your description of the classes , 3 out of 4 have a clear path that they are following and as you said : " Sorcerer - Random extreme burst specialty " - this thing doesn't work if we don't get to keep the stuff that made this play style viable and our toys are shared with everyone else , hence my proposed skill change.

If the rest of the guys are getting access to skills that are on par with what we have on top of their own tools , why now provide sorcerers with some of the stuff that the other classses have as well ?

The Sorcerer class has been the first thing i ever played in this game when the game launched and when i came back after quite a long pause , its the first thing i picked up to level to V16 and i really like the class , but if a homogenization process is already taking place , with some thematic spins to them , i do not see why should Sorcerers be left out , since , again , 3 out of 4 classes get this treatment and now with DC DLC will get our benefits( shields ) on top of what they have , but loose nothing.

IMO, they should add some more bursty passives to Sorcerer, like Inner Light or Disintegration.

Derra

susmitds wrote: »

I think, you are missing a basic pattern of the classes.

Dragonknight - DoT with constant pressure specialty
Nightblade - Instant on demand burst specialty
Templar - Channel with controll specialty
Sorcerer - Random extreme burst specialty

That is something that the devs is sticking to, even with all skill changes from beta.

I don't think these class boundaries are ever going to be diluted, as far as class skills are concerned.

That pattern has failed. NB can now burst harder than a sorc without being subject to rgn as you can control exactly when assassins will and incap/soulharvest are up.

Sorc burst got nerfed severely (dawnbreaker physical dmg, detonation nerfed) and it was already weak because it´s not as rgn as you make it out to be. Curse gives you a perfect 3.5s timer on your char when the "rgn" sorc burst is going to hit. A problem NB does not have.

As for PvE. Sorc being rgn burst with all encounters being designed for steady dps NEVER truely worked there (sorcs only became desireable when dmg got high enough so overload could be maintained for whole fights).

It´s time to drop the sorc concept or seriously rework it for the burst to be truely rgn while also providing the DPS to be competetive in pve.

susmitds

Derra wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

I think, you are missing a basic pattern of the classes.

Dragonknight - DoT with constant pressure specialty
Nightblade - Instant on demand burst specialty
Templar - Channel with controll specialty
Sorcerer - Random extreme burst specialty

That is something that the devs is sticking to, even with all skill changes from beta.

I don't think these class boundaries are ever going to be diluted, as far as class skills are concerned.

That pattern has failed. NB can now burst harder than a sorc without being subject to rgn as you can control exactly when assassins will and incap/soulharvest are up.

Sorc burst got nerfed severely (dawnbreaker physical dmg, detonation nerfed) and it was already weak because it´s not as rgn as you make it out to be. Curse gives you a perfect 3.5s timer on your char when the "rgn" sorc burst is going to hit. A problem NB does not have.

As for PvE. Sorc being rgn burst with all encounters being designed for steady dps NEVER truely worked there (sorcs only became desireable when dmg got high enough so overload could be maintained for whole fights).

It´s time to drop the sorc concept or seriously rework it for the burst to be truely rgn while also providing the DPS to be competetive in pve.

Nightblades always had a much higher control of their burst and also far as single target burst is being considered, Nightblades, both Magicka and Stamina always surpassed sorcerers. One of the strongest single target skill, Merciless Resolve is a prime tool of the NBs. But it requires four light/heavy attacks before it is ready for use. Sorcerers on the other hand, got access to frags and overload which are better at bursting. However if you consider overall DPS by using only class skills, then Nightblades are better than sorcerers. Nightblades are the only class in the game, who got everything they need from gap closers, dps spammable, execute, AoE, buffs, debuffs, CC to escape skills right from their class skills and that too for both their stamina and magicka variants. The only things they lack is a solid self unconditional self heal and a good defense mechanism. So outside of the random burst, sorcerers can't keep up with Nightblades unless several conditions are fulfilled.