Tanking, Healing and DPS inflation. Discuss

Elloa

Greetings everyone,

As the devellopers asked for some feedback regarding tanking, I though it was the right moment to share my though regarding healing 'n tanking (and DPSing) in The Elder Scrolls Online.
In this video I shortly explains my frustration and my hope. Let's the talk begin!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzoaVPioE-E


I know that a lot of players have started to believe that the Holy trinity in game is a old model and obselete. Many games even do not propose propoer tanks or healers anymore. GW2, Blade and Soul, Black Desert.... And obviously, this make thing easier for grouping.

But while a majority of players enjoy more DPSing, there is a lot of players that don't like that role, and enjoy tanking or healing more. YES, for some players this is what is fun! And it's fun to be good at it. It's fun to perform well, to shine in your role, to overcome challenges, and to feel usefull and needed!

In The Elder Scrolls Online, today, you don't really feel useful as tank or as dedicated healer anymore. And that remove the fun. The biggest flaws come to the insane amount of damages players are capable of doing. When you compile build, champion points and gear with no soft cap, together with the animation cancelation technique, and the knowledge of the dungeon by heart (it's two years players are doing same dungeons over and over), those players are doing so much damage than you kill bosses faster than they can perform their techniques. Strategies are useless. Heal is useless. Tanking is useless. Doing damages is the way to go.

Of course, the average player is not capable of doing THAT much damage.And as the tanks and healers are not "needed" anymore, and it'snot fun anymore, we have a shortage of those roles, leaving the average DPSer having trouble to find a "normal" group with whom to experience the content, have fun and learn to play their character.

The DPS inflation is the core point that need to be adressed in my opinion, to make tanking and healing fun again, and as result, a better balanced community to enjoy Dungeons with that everyone would beneficiate from.

gen_reynard2050

Kozer

As a long time WoW player...I got bored of DPS. My Rogue...Could only do that. I was stuck in that field unless I made a new character. Which I eventually did. I rolled a prot pally and could tank and top the DPS charts for a bit.

This is partially why I love ESO. My DragonKnight can tank or dps at a moments notice.

Onto your topic...I have only done 1 dungeon since I got back.
It was with a group of people and I couldn't even tell if we had a healer. It was just go here kill that.
I miss the teamwork at times. And would love to see a come back with tanks and healers.

BalticBlues

Thanks so much for this fine video, Elloa.

You are one of the few YouTubers who experience this game from the Healer's perspective.
I feel exactly the same way, and this is why I currently run more with PUGs than with my guild.

Unfortunately, instead of fixing the DPS inflation, ZOS now nerfs the healing on PTS.
This is exactly the opposite of what the game would have needed.

lolo_01b16_ESO

You should go on pts (or wait for thieves guild to be released). The new trial will satisfy most of the things you mentioned.
You don't have any chance of out dpsing the mechanics (second boss takes us ~8min to kill and that's the nerfed version for pts testing, live will be harder), so people have to learn them and those dds who can stay alive will be more valuable than those that do high dps in the beginning, but die because they don't pay attention to the boss.
You'll also need a real tank and real healers. Especially in some trash encounters (which don't deserve the name trash since they are quite hard) and at the last boss, even tanks with capped resistances and 40k+ hp will take hits foor huge parts of their hp bar, so you basicly need one healer who focusses on keeping the tank alive.

But yeah, it's a bit sad that all the old content becomes boringly easy. Zos should try to update at least some fights so they pose an adequate challenge for experienced players.

hrothbern

Elloa wrote: »

Greetings everyone,

As the devellopers asked for some feedback regarding tanking, I though it was the right moment to share my though regarding healing 'n tanking (and DPSing) in The Elder Scrolls Online.
In this video I shortly explains my frustration and my hope. Let's the talk begin!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzoaVPioE-E


I know that a lot of players have started to believe that the Holy trinity in game is a old model and obselete. Many games even do not propose propoer tanks or healers anymore. GW2, Blade and Soul, Black Desert.... And obviously, this make thing easier for grouping.

But while a majority of players enjoy more DPSing, there is a lot of players that don't like that role, and enjoy tanking or healing more. YES, for some players this is what is fun! And it's fun to be good at it. It's fun to perform well, to shine in your role, to overcome challenges, and to feel usefull and needed!

In The Elder Scrolls Online, today, you don't really feel useful as tank or as dedicated healer anymore. And that remove the fun. The biggest flaws come to the insane amount of damages players are capable of doing. When you compile build, champion points and gear with no soft cap, together with the animation cancelation technique, and the knowledge of the dungeon by heart (it's two years players are doing same dungeons over and over), those players are doing so much damage than you kill bosses faster than they can perform their techniques. Strategies are useless. Heal is useless. Tanking is useless. Doing damages is the way to go.

Of course, the average player is not capable of doing THAT much damage.And as the tanks and healers are not "needed" anymore, and it'snot fun anymore, we have a shortage of those roles, leaving the average DPSer having trouble to find a "normal" group with whom to experience the content, have fun and learn to play their character.

The DPS inflation is the core point that need to be adressed in my opinion, to make tanking and healing fun again, and as result, a better balanced community to enjoy Dungeons with that everyone would beneficiate from.

Good post...

and at the right time
because I think that ZOS is meanwhile aware of the detrimental effect on the total game of the high DPS builds that get high self heal sustain as a side effect.
And ZOS is thinking on root balancing this issue.

So will their overhaul restore Tanking and Healing to their old splendor / need ?

you say:
"Of course, the average player is not capable of doing THAT much damage.And as the tanks and healers are not "needed" anymore, and it'snot fun anymore, we have a shortage of those roles, leaving the average DPSer having trouble to find a "normal" group with whom to experience the content, have fun and learn to play their character".
I think that is important.
Healers and Tanks are still needed at casual level, but there is no continuity of needing them, because when DPS players outgrow the casual level, which is easy once they can copy the high DPS builds, Tanks and Healers can not follow in that growth....
Because they are with the current content difficulty not needed anymore !

The new Trial of TG does show that more difficult content is taken up by ZOS. Also already with the vMA they did not nerf the difficulty of the content
But the down side is that normal players have difficulties with it.

In the official Tank thread I have suggested to make the content more difficult, to avoid high level DPS players to melt away bosses in no time at all, by adding an elite level.
So... normal, veteran & elite.
Normal players will need the Trinity at normal and veteran levels.
High level players will need the Trinity at elite levels.
High level players that just like to do content solo, can learn at normal level and have their real challenge at veteran level. Elite level should and must be impossible to solo.

My 2 cents

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Tanks are getting shafted and ignored every patch. Boring uninspired sets, completely neglected armour passives, capped resistances that dont matter much.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

You should go on pts (or wait for thieves guild to be released). The new trial will satisfy most of the things you mentioned.
You don't have any chance of out dpsing the mechanics (second boss takes us ~8min to kill and that's the nerfed version for pts testing, live will be harder), so people have to learn them and those dds who can stay alive will be more valuable than those that do high dps in the beginning, but die because they don't pay attention to the boss.
You'll also need a real tank and real healers. Especially in some trash encounters (which don't deserve the name trash since they are quite hard) and at the last boss, even tanks with capped resistances and 40k+ hp will take hits foor huge parts of their hp bar, so you basicly need one healer who focusses on keeping the tank alive.

But yeah, it's a bit sad that all the old content becomes boringly easy. Zos should try to update at least some fights so they pose an adequate challenge for experienced players.

That's a good point, but the new Trial is still only a fraction of all endgame content. Probably the most common endgame PvE players experience are vet dungeons, the majority of which offer little challenge.

It needs a broad design change to really fix it as the issue is deeply rooted in core systems, such as Champion System, mob difficulty, lack of softcaps, tying weapon/spell power to max stam/mag, armor passives, mitigation caps, etc.

jpatek0501ub17_ESO

Healer and Tank are always my favorite roles.

Tanking is a great experience, soaking up tons of damage and face to face with some wicked bosses. Having to position them or picking up adds. Its nice to have a little control over the threat/agrro meter.

Played few Dungeons leveling back in 2014, then did 1 when undaunted dailies came out. Never been back.

Anyway, I wonder if possible to add another Dungeon "type" more of Hack n slash(2-4player).

Then have your traditional strategical group dungeons/raids (with some damn proper rewards).

eliisra

hrothbern wrote: »

In the official Tank thread I have suggested to make the content more difficult, to avoid high level DPS players to melt away bosses in no time at all, by adding an elite level.
So... normal, veteran & elite.

While that sounds good, people been asking for more difficulty for a long time because dungeons are keyboard mash easy and all about dps.

You know what ZoS have done so far to meet those requests...they have nerfed tanks and healing to make it less face-roll. I guess they also nerfed tanks&healers because of PvP, even more annoying. But the point is, they didn't tone down dps, instead buffed it even more and still going in that direction.

If core mechanics aren't changed, that elite version might be more perfect for a team of 4 dps, melting boss than a group with proper tank and healer

Only thing they actually done so far that affects dps is toning down resource management a hint. But that didn't change much for the role. Only that healers no longer has to play full dps(with Breath of Life equipped) like in 1.6. Now they're buff and resource management bots yay. I honestly dont think anyone made a healer, because they wanted to be on stamina&magicka restore duty mainly.

@Elloa I much agree with your post. I also think Zos underestimates how many of us wants to play traditional tanks or healers. We're a big part of the community and player base. But right now we're forced to play as dps a lot of times or be useless. I dont want to play as dps/healer with a single taunt equipped when main tanking. But full time tank isn't needed. My healer doesn't get to heal much at all, rather just keep up dps buffs and feeding people some resources, than boss dies in like 1-2 minutes.

Necrelios

Group content has always been in a weird place with ESO. They wanted to make it familiar to fans of traditional The Elder Scrolls games, but also provoke a sense of appeal from the MMO community with the aspect of "roles" in group content. The downside of this of course, is that they took their frame of reference (for whatever reason) from late 1990's MMO's. Nothing in ESO is original in that sense. Everything is done using much aging criteria for the group roles and I hope that gets looked at and compared to current standards at some point. It's like the difference comparing original DnD to ADnD and beyond. I don't really know how to explain that from a more technical point of view, but ESO uses very old core mechanics as far as group roles are concerned, atleast IMHO.

Sausage

Holy Trinity with siege weapons as main source of annoyance will work, but they just gotta get it right. Rock, paper, and scissor but siege weapons kills all.

GeertKarel

It is soo frustrating to hear that people only want to focus on one thing, the game is basically meant to do more then just healing, just tanking, just dealing damage.
I feel it way more rewarding to be good at a game and can manage just more then just tanking.
healing is way more rewarding if you can keep your damage dealers up with resources.. its really not that hard. I find it frustrating that healers only want to heal because most of the time you don't even need to heal and maybe 1 healing spring per 30 seconds, that is quite boring to be honest.

Necrelios

Sausage wrote: »

Holy Trinity with siege weapons as main source of annoyance will work, but they just gotta get it right. Rock, paper, and scissor but siege weapons kills all.

Hmm... point taken, but how do break through a keep wall without the siege weapons? Or maybe that particular aspect needs to be looks at as well. It would seem, atleast from a historical standpoint, exploding ordinances would be used in close range to undermine the integrity of fort walls, and that would take close proximity to the keep for a period of time in order to be placed. Could add an element of strategy and more defending to the game... but I dunno that much about PvP to be honest, just shooting in the dark.

oibam

On PTS in Imperial City without CP: content is really hard.

So i think, the CP System is too strong.

Necrelios

oibam wrote: »

On PTS in Imperial City without CP: content is really hard.

So i think, the CP System is too strong.

Imperial City is designed for group play, it's not intended for solo play. Yes with CP's some of it can be solo'd, but not the quests (especially those in Arena District) also those Flag Carrier NPC's you might come across in the sewers. Perhaps those flag carriers could be solo'd, with some very specialized builds at max cp, if they didn't have uninterruptable self heals. But that's a weird discussion to get into, although I love thinking about it.

caperon

oibam wrote: »

On PTS in Imperial City without CP: content is really hard.

So i think, the CP System is too strong.

CP system is the worst idea ZOS had followed by the dmg scalling based on resource pools. They slowly but surely are killing their own game. Is like the people who designed and programed it are different from the ones who are managing it. Is the game better? Not for me.

hrothbern

eliisra wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

In the official Tank thread I have suggested to make the content more difficult, to avoid high level DPS players to melt away bosses in no time at all, by adding an elite level.
So... normal, veteran & elite.

While that sounds good, people been asking for more difficulty for a long time because dungeons are keyboard mash easy and all about dps.

You know what ZoS have done so far to meet those requests...they have nerfed tanks and healing to make it less face-roll. I guess they also nerfed tanks&healers because of PvP, even more annoying. But the point is, they didn't tone down dps, instead buffed it even more and still going in that direction.

If core mechanics aren't changed, that elite version might be more perfect for a team of 4 dps, melting boss than a group with proper tank and healer

Only thing they actually done so far that affects dps is toning down resource management a hint. But that didn't change much for the role. Only that healers no longer has to play full dps(with Breath of Life equipped) like in 1.6. Now they're buff and resource management bots yay. I honestly dont think anyone made a healer, because they wanted to be on stamina&magicka restore duty mainly.

@Elloa I much agree with your post. I also think Zos underestimates how many of us wants to play traditional tanks or healers. We're a big part of the community and player base. But right now we're forced to play as dps a lot of times or be useless. I dont want to play as dps/healer with a single taunt equipped when main tanking. But full time tank isn't needed. My healer doesn't get to heal much at all, rather just keep up dps buffs and feeding people some resources, than boss dies in like 1-2 minutes.

@eliisra ,

Well... I guess I am more optimistic about ZOS recognising the current (home made) balance issue.
I believe they will deal with it, but in a step by step process.

I think core of the balance issue is the combination of very high DPS with very high selfsustain from self heals in the base game mechanics causing stacking in eg Magicka stat & Spell Power.
In the CP tree this is balanced with separate stars for DPS and HPS.
(the base game mechanics is of older origin, and was basically not designed to handle this stacking. The old soft caps were a band-aid imo)

And yes, I believe ZOS will adress this.

Just as example, "out of the box", how simple this stacking can be adressed:
IF DPS scales only from Spell/Weapon Power and HPS scales only from Magicka/Stamina stat....

You are forced to choose, like in the CP tree.

For the Trinity this means:

1. A Healer can stack 100% stat for max HPS as 100% dedicated Healer (high HPS output but less DPS), or stack less stat to Heal and add more Spell Power (to support DPS) or add more Recovery to add support / Group synergy abilities.
2. A Damage Dealer can stack 100% Spell/Weapon Power as 100% DPS (high DPS output but less self heal), or stack some stat for sustain or solo.
3. A Tank can stack Mitigation & Health as 100% damage sponge (high sustain, but no DPS), or stack less mitigation and free up room to add DPS or support the Group with synergy abilities.

And there are many, many more ways, where "simple" technical changes will adress the current meta of very high DPS + very high selfsustain from self heals.

Key for the players that love the Trinity, is that ZOS will indeed honor that as well.
have to wait and see...

Voxicity

GeertKarel wrote: »

healing is way more rewarding if you can keep your damage dealers up with resources.. its really not that hard. I find it frustrating that healers only want to heal because most of the time you don't even need to heal and maybe 1 healing spring per 30 seconds, that is quite boring to be honest.

I don't think this is a valid point because in pretty much all MMO's I have ever played, keeping the other party members resources up (spear, orbs) is common sense for the healing role. 'Healing' doesn't just mean restoring health, it includes dispelling and giving resources to the party.

So whoever you're talking about who just heals and doesn't give resources is not playing the role to it's full potential.

Refuse2GrowUp

There are several things I agree with, and some I don't.

Unfortunately, the biggest issue in the nerf cycle is that they balance things around PvP, where imbalances are unfortunately more prominent, which throws PvE into all sorts of chaos. I have said it before, and will say it again...the only way the devs are going to get this game right is by having separate PvP and PvE profiles so that they can make changes to skills and mechanics for one without effecting the other. This will also allow players to pick morphs for PvE and PvP separately as I know numerous tanks and healers that both PvE and PvP and are forced to take less optimal PvE morphs to be more viable in Pvp.

Yes, damage creep is real. I do not necessarily see that as a problem. It does however have two factors that are detrimental to typical group formations with a healer and tank: 1) Many DPS skills also have strong self heals or group heals (think Magicka Nightblades). The devs have already taken aim at reducing the team heals of DPS Nightblades so that they cannot replace healers, but as it sits, they can replace healers and still put out high DPS. 2) Because Tanks have been nerfd so much, and their tankyness reduced to minuscule and laughable levels, There are plenty DPS who can off-tank and still contribute significantly to the fight. With the burn being high, the probability for deaths is lower, and therefore acceptable. Simply, most dungeons you can burn thru without a tank and properly holding aggro, and those you can't, a beefy DPS can pull aggro or simply do a quick gear swap and be a suitable hybrid DPS/Tank.

And, as others have mentioned, Tanks are a joke. Heavy passives are rubbish and the armor offered by heavy is barely more than that of medium. Hell, with sets like Armor Master, you can exceed caps in medium armor and come very close to hitting them in light armor. Heavy armor really needs to have passives and skills that offer more to the group setting and heavy armor in general needs to be more viable and tanky. Unfortunately, until they separate PvE and PvP, they cannot and will not buffs tank too much as they will then be unkillable in PvP.

As said in the OP, too much of the end-game content is outdated and easy. We are all too comfortable with the mechanics. The dev team really needs to step it up in terms of offering new end-game content. 'New' tends to make players more cautious, and caution dictates having a proper tank and healer. If they would pump out a new dungeon monthly, it would go a long way to keeping proper groups formed, especially since a rapid push would mean keeping up with the meta and either playing to it, or forcing players out of the meta and therefore out of their comfort zones. A new dungeon per month wouldn't need to be too dev tasking since it would not need to be tied to a DLC or new zone every time...a small team to just create dungeons. They could easily keep adding dungeons to old zones (like Craglorn). Would have been a much better investment than their 1 million give-away lol.

Lastly, Maelstrom is cool and challenging, but also contributes detrimentally to the game in two ways: 1) Solo content forces those who tank or heal to respec or drop their beloved toon for a DPS, and 2) of much more detriment is that for players to be able to beat Maelstrom, they had to give each class a significant capability in terms of DPS, resource management, heals, and maneuverability. The problem is that once they give every class all of this, they are then self-sufficient. Four self-sufficient players do not need a healer...they have already been given everything they need to DPS and keep themselves in the fight. So, healers become more of a Trials group thing than a dungeon thing, as they will provide heals and utility so that DPS can do nothing but DPS and parse big numbers. Dungeon healers just are not necessary.

Elloa

Vox wrote: »

GeertKarel wrote: »

healing is way more rewarding if you can keep your damage dealers up with resources.. its really not that hard. I find it frustrating that healers only want to heal because most of the time you don't even need to heal and maybe 1 healing spring per 30 seconds, that is quite boring to be honest.

I don't think this is a valid point because in pretty much all MMO's I have ever played, keeping the other party members resources up (spear, orbs) is common sense for the healing role. 'Healing' doesn't just mean restoring health, it includes dispelling and giving resources to the party.

So whoever you're talking about who just heals and doesn't give resources is not playing the role to it's full potential.

I'm not complaining because as healer you can help your group gaining ressource; I'm complaining because that's what you are reduced to do: providing ressource, doing damage, and a bit of heal on the side;

That's not what I enjoy! What I enjoy to do is to save my team from immenent dead. Choose the correct healing spell that will protect them or heal them or dispell them. I like to have a strategic healing gameplay. I don't mind occasionaly providing some buffs to my party, or helping DPSing a bit. But what I enjoy the most is saving people from dead.

That's why I enjoy long fights, with squishy tanks, where you have the time to see the different boss attacks, deal with them and react appropriately.

Hence, having more fun with my lowbie group and my lowbie DK healer at the moment than my Templar healer Vet16, which is never being played anymore. And why is it fun? Because my lowbie Dpsers don't do much DPS. They don't have the experience, and the Champion point to kill the bosses in 45 sec. Fight last longer. I can run out of magika if I don't pay attention! OMG!!!

Voxicity

Elloa wrote: »

Vox wrote: »

GeertKarel wrote: »

healing is way more rewarding if you can keep your damage dealers up with resources.. its really not that hard. I find it frustrating that healers only want to heal because most of the time you don't even need to heal and maybe 1 healing spring per 30 seconds, that is quite boring to be honest.

I don't think this is a valid point because in pretty much all MMO's I have ever played, keeping the other party members resources up (spear, orbs) is common sense for the healing role. 'Healing' doesn't just mean restoring health, it includes dispelling and giving resources to the party.

So whoever you're talking about who just heals and doesn't give resources is not playing the role to it's full potential.

I'm not complaining because as healer you can help your group gaining ressource; I'm complaining because that's what you are reduced to do: providing ressource, doing damage, and a bit of heal on the side;

That's not what I enjoy! What I enjoy to do is to save my team from immenent dead. Choose the correct healing spell that will protect them or heal them or dispell them. I like to have a strategic healing gameplay. I don't mind occasionaly providing some buffs to my party, or helping DPSing a bit. But what I enjoy the most is saving people from dead.

That's why I enjoy long fights, with squishy tanks, where you have the time to see the different boss attacks, deal with them and react appropriately.

Hence, having more fun with my lowbie group and my lowbie DK healer at the moment than my Templar healer Vet16, which is never being played anymore. And why is it fun? Because my lowbie Dpsers don't do much DPS. They don't have the experience, and the Champion point to kill the bosses in 45 sec. Fight last longer. I can run out of magika if I don't pay attention! OMG!!!

Yeah I agree with you with the damage bit. I think as a healer your priorities should be

1) Heal (obviously)
2) Dispell
3) Give resources

Dealing damage shouldn't even come into it in groups. It makes no sense to queue as a healer and be expected to only heal when it's necessary (pretty much just boss fights). What's the point in wearing a pretty dress if you're gonna be up close in the fight smashing the hell out of stuff. It simply looks wrong.

Refuse2GrowUp

Vox wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

Vox wrote: »

GeertKarel wrote: »

healing is way more rewarding if you can keep your damage dealers up with resources.. its really not that hard. I find it frustrating that healers only want to heal because most of the time you don't even need to heal and maybe 1 healing spring per 30 seconds, that is quite boring to be honest.

I don't think this is a valid point because in pretty much all MMO's I have ever played, keeping the other party members resources up (spear, orbs) is common sense for the healing role. 'Healing' doesn't just mean restoring health, it includes dispelling and giving resources to the party.

So whoever you're talking about who just heals and doesn't give resources is not playing the role to it's full potential.

I'm not complaining because as healer you can help your group gaining ressource; I'm complaining because that's what you are reduced to do: providing ressource, doing damage, and a bit of heal on the side;

That's not what I enjoy! What I enjoy to do is to save my team from immenent dead. Choose the correct healing spell that will protect them or heal them or dispell them. I like to have a strategic healing gameplay. I don't mind occasionaly providing some buffs to my party, or helping DPSing a bit. But what I enjoy the most is saving people from dead.

That's why I enjoy long fights, with squishy tanks, where you have the time to see the different boss attacks, deal with them and react appropriately.

Hence, having more fun with my lowbie group and my lowbie DK healer at the moment than my Templar healer Vet16, which is never being played anymore. And why is it fun? Because my lowbie Dpsers don't do much DPS. They don't have the experience, and the Champion point to kill the bosses in 45 sec. Fight last longer. I can run out of magika if I don't pay attention! OMG!!!

Yeah I agree with you with the damage bit. I think as a healer your priorities should be

1) Heal (obviously)
2) Dispell
3) Give resources

Dealing damage shouldn't even come into it in groups. It makes no sense to queue as a healer and be expected to only heal when it's necessary (pretty much just boss fights). What's the point in wearing a pretty dress if you're gonna be up close in the fight smashing the hell out of stuff. It simply looks wrong.

On my healer, which is set up more as a Trials healer than a dungeon healer, I keep DPS in mind, but would prefer buff my teams DPS than use DPS skills of my own. I.e. Spell Power Cure, Aggressive Warhorn in rotation, Combat Prayer, Purifying Light, Shards DoT as useful as Shards for resources, Orbs when they will have the most DPS impact on top of a resource gain, and execute when convenient and able.

I think of healers, myself included, as responsible for heals and utility. Keeping everyone alive is priority one, but is basic as a healer. Healers really set themselves apart by how well they can buff damage and contribute utility while still keeping everyone alive. And, in a DPS centric meta, being able to contribute to buffing everyone else's damage to the point that their damage increases surpass what would be your DPS parse means you are more of an asset and therefore more essential.

yake82

When i take the healing duty, i have no problem being stamina/magicka resource pool.

I keep throwing Shards and Orb/Siphon from my main bar.
From my off bar i cast Sun fire to grant Minor Sorcery, also Repentance and Ele drain.

Thats what healers do in Elder Scrolls.

Maybe we should stop using the word "healer" and use "support" instead.

Voxicity

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Vox wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

Vox wrote: »

GeertKarel wrote: »

healing is way more rewarding if you can keep your damage dealers up with resources.. its really not that hard. I find it frustrating that healers only want to heal because most of the time you don't even need to heal and maybe 1 healing spring per 30 seconds, that is quite boring to be honest.

I don't think this is a valid point because in pretty much all MMO's I have ever played, keeping the other party members resources up (spear, orbs) is common sense for the healing role. 'Healing' doesn't just mean restoring health, it includes dispelling and giving resources to the party.

So whoever you're talking about who just heals and doesn't give resources is not playing the role to it's full potential.

I'm not complaining because as healer you can help your group gaining ressource; I'm complaining because that's what you are reduced to do: providing ressource, doing damage, and a bit of heal on the side;

That's not what I enjoy! What I enjoy to do is to save my team from immenent dead. Choose the correct healing spell that will protect them or heal them or dispell them. I like to have a strategic healing gameplay. I don't mind occasionaly providing some buffs to my party, or helping DPSing a bit. But what I enjoy the most is saving people from dead.

That's why I enjoy long fights, with squishy tanks, where you have the time to see the different boss attacks, deal with them and react appropriately.

Hence, having more fun with my lowbie group and my lowbie DK healer at the moment than my Templar healer Vet16, which is never being played anymore. And why is it fun? Because my lowbie Dpsers don't do much DPS. They don't have the experience, and the Champion point to kill the bosses in 45 sec. Fight last longer. I can run out of magika if I don't pay attention! OMG!!!

Yeah I agree with you with the damage bit. I think as a healer your priorities should be

1) Heal (obviously)
2) Dispell
3) Give resources

Dealing damage shouldn't even come into it in groups. It makes no sense to queue as a healer and be expected to only heal when it's necessary (pretty much just boss fights). What's the point in wearing a pretty dress if you're gonna be up close in the fight smashing the hell out of stuff. It simply looks wrong.

On my healer, which is set up more as a Trials healer than a dungeon healer, I keep DPS in mind, but would prefer buff my teams DPS than use DPS skills of my own. I.e. Spell Power Cure, Aggressive Warhorn in rotation, Combat Prayer, Purifying Light, Shards DoT as useful as Shards for resources, Orbs when they will have the most DPS impact on top of a resource gain, and execute when convenient and able.

I think of healers, myself included, as responsible for heals and utility. Keeping everyone alive is priority one, but is basic as a healer. Healers really set themselves apart by how well they can buff damage and contribute utility while still keeping everyone alive. And, in a DPS centric meta, being able to contribute to buffing everyone else's damage to the point that their damage increases surpass what would be your DPS parse means you are more of an asset and therefore more essential.

You just hit the nail on the head thread

oibam

40k LA by Sorcs in Overload ... why?

Elloa

@Refuse2GrowUp @yake82 @Vox

In a game where the DPS outpout is already too high (Boss dies before they can't even do their special attack), I find that providing ressource or buffing the DPS output of other players feel rather insignificant and pointeless.

If the fight were challenging enough, and if the DPSer actually really needed a DPS increase, that could be interesting, in some case. (not every fight please, we need variety)


Basically I'm hoping to find again fight that last long, that offer different tactics, with wall that ensure high DPS can't be enought o go through it and ignore most mechanics

Refuse2GrowUp

Elloa wrote: »

@Refuse2GrowUp @yake82 @Vox

In a game where the DPS outpout is already too high (Boss dies before they can't even do their special attack), I find that providing ressource or buffing the DPS output of other players feel rather insignificant and pointeless.

If the fight were challenging enough, and if the DPSer actually really needed a DPS increase, that could be interesting, in some case. (not every fight please, we need variety)

While I certainly do not disagree, I really think your statement is situational. In my post above, I mentioned my healer is more of a Trials healer than a dungeon healer. Simply, she is overkill in dungeons. A Magicka Nightblade could heal a 4-man group just as well but provide more DPS.

My Healer is more set-up for Trials and vDSA where leaderboard entries matter, and thus the DPS buffs, enemy debuffs, resource management, team utility, stacking of HoTs etc all matter and are of much more relevance. In a 12-man group setting, such buffs really shine as they can effect 8-10 DDs vice 2-3. That is a much more substantial DPS buff big picture.

pretzl

Is there a specific reason as to why you're ALWAYS whispering in your videos?

Decent points taken up, but you present the issue in a negligent way.
Speak up next time, kthx.

DHale

Well they say there is a first time for everything. But for once in the two years I have played this game I have to disagree with you Elloa. I made my first toon a Templar not knowing the roles. The Initial dungeon groups said your a Templar your the healer I was like wtf. I learned to be a pretty good healer but that said I had my fair share of wipes. Groups that didn't dps enough always wiped no matter what I did to heal them quick shot for 20 k and essence drain for 30 k when not even the tank had 30 k. Back then it was 5 k quick shots when we all had 2 k health. Point is no healer can out heal many of the hits that bosses and many mobs put out. If you don't kill them they will kill you. I know you run with guildies most of the time pug groups don't put out a lot of damage they run out of magic constantly, they don't know boss mechanics. Healers can't keep up with the demand. Spending 2 hours running a dungeon that I can run with my guildies in 20 minutes is NOT fun. Getting hit with 30 k hits when I have 15 k health is not fun. There is no healer in our game that can heal that. Pug tanks don't grab everyone. When I heal I can get so much aggro I literally run around in circles healing with pug tanks. Pugs stand in red pugs don't dodge roll and now don't block. Wiping on bosses 5 6 7 tines is not fun. That doesn't happen with guildies or ppl in team speak. The avg ESO player doesn't have that. I have met dozens of player who have not successfully completed one veteran dungeon. You say it's to fast too much damage but it's the opposite for a lot of ppl.

Aside from that I have run literally more than a hundred dungeons and have gotten zero helms and two shoulder with well fitted.. Wow. Why on earth should I bother running dungeons? Even if you run dungeon repeatedly you get no credit for it. I ran crypt of hearts 30 plus times over a week period, no undaunted credit no shoulder no helm. If Ieveling undaunted was not sooo painfully slow. The drop rates for helms and shoulder make it ridiculously tedious to actually enjoy the experience. Why would you not burn it as fast as possible with elite players when the chance of getting something useful or good is so very small. I am only there to get that undaunted. I am not going to run a dungeon multiple times to help friends out as I have already done it for the day and won't get any credit to do it. Outside of an undaunted pledge I won't run a dungeon. There are lots of changes that need to be made to the dungeons. Making them harder or longer or making it so I need to find unicorn tanks and the rare healer that hasn't already done their pledge for the day is not it.

Personofsecrets

DPS has gotten so high that @Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @ZOS_RichLambert had to severely nerf damage in PVP as though there STILL ARE soft caps. They reintroduced soft caps, in a sense, with the battle spirit debuff.

It turns out that tanky players would be benefited in a greater way and disproportionately to the more DPS focused players in PVP if the battle spirit debuff happened by itself with no changes to tanky players and that, in my opinion, is why we ended up with the stamina regeneration nerf. Of course now that we have had time to grow again, people are back to getting one and two shot in Cyrodiil.

Power creep and the champion point system have had tremendous consequences on the game. Tanks, healers, PVP, and especially PVE are paying the price for these advances in DPS power.