The Problem Isn't BoL

tinythinker

As I wrote in my review for the Official Feedback Thread For Templars...

Healing Ritual still has that cast time, so, lowering the cast time a little but also lowering the healing done doesn't make it more attractive. I get having something that snares you as a penalty for how good the healing is, but, this game isn't forgiving of a lack of mobility. This ability could be: made into a great choice for healer/tanks (it was almost there in it's current version on live, i.e. 2.2x), have protection/mitigation added for regular healers so they don't die casting it, or turned into a mobile AoE HoT but with some debuff to damage for a certain period of time after casting.

As for the most controversial change, I can understand there are balance and gameplay concerns. If Templars have an easy button on healing and also get some damage buffs, maybe some of you devs think something has to give. OK, let's go with that for the sake of argument. Yet, Breath of Life still beats both Healing Ritual and morphs as well as its twin Honor the Dead. Its instant cast and lack of snare make it hands down a better choice than Healing Ritual, and the fact that it still hits more targets than HoD means that A.) it's more likely to heal the caster and B.) it helps the group more. Unless a player is having serious sustain issue, there is no reason to slot HoD.

If you are going to keep the changes to BoL, which I can live with if it comes to that, you still need to do something good and something clever with HR and HoD. Maybe if HoD gives back 80%-90% of its cost, or gives back 60% in half the time it currently takes to do so, it would be more attractive since either change makes it super cheap to cast. Or, maybe HoD keeps the current rebate size and recovery time but tosses bigger heals. Those are simplistic ideas with no real attempt at being creative (I'm in a hurry to get back to the PTS). I am sure you devs can do better. But as things stand, why would anyone want to trade more/faster healing for less/slower healing?

Many people are upset that Breath of Life heals one less target, yet that ability is *still* really strong. When used with Cleansing Ritual, if you stand somewhere inside that big circle, you do a LOT of heals. Plus there are good restoration staff skills to supplement with for additional HoTs. But the important thing isn't that you can still do a great job healing. It's this...

"Breath of Life heals one less target, yet that ability is *still* really strong."

In fact, it's still superior to Lingering Ritual & morphs and Honor the Dead. BoL has had to carry that whole skill line since launch. Yes, the two buff circles are nice and so is Repentance, but for actual healing in a fight, it's BoL or nothing for most Templar healers when it comes to the Restoring Light skill line. And that is one of the big reasons so many people are so upset that it went from healing three targets to healing two targets.

If you want to criticize the combat team or light a fire under their arses about Templar healing, getting out your pitchforks over BoL is tempting but misses the mark. Have them come up with changes to HR & morphs and to HoD that make them competitive and useful. As stated in the quote above, BoL's instant cast and lack of self-snare make it hands down a better choice than Healing Ritual, and the fact that it still hits more targets than HoD means that A.) it's more likely to heal the caster and B.) it helps the group more. Why would anyone want to trade more/faster healing for less/slower healing?

Healers will get by with the new BoL, but it's about time the other big heals in the skill line step up now that BoL is less of a crutch. That is where Templars are and have always been weak when it comes to Restoring Light.

tinythinker

Thanks to the person who clicked "Agree". I don't blame you for not commenting given the forum environment over the past 24 hours

Preyfar

I think BOL's changes will make Templars have to actually pay more attention. Not only that, but the people who are fighting with them. As it is, on live, I can pretty much spam BOL non-stop in a dungeon and hit everybody in the group. I really don't have to put much effort into it, and my BOLs (with crits) can heal for upwards of 20K.

I think the biggest problem is that it's viewed as a huge nerf when the rest of Templar's skillsets didn't get an eqv. buff.

I may be one of the few who don't view the nerf as that devastating. Not to say I'm happy with it, but I can adapt.

Lightninvash

this makes me want to reroll because healers tend to be able to heal too hard from the dedicated heal tree so something must be wrong with it. so ima do like everyone else and roll a magicka sorc >.>

Talyena

My suggestions to temper the BoL nerf. Make both heals hit for full instead of the second one hitting for 50% less. Or, cut the cost by 25% to make up the the 25% reduction in healing.

Healing Ritual just sucks. Still has a cast time, still has a very limited range, and now it heals less at the same cost. Revamp it entirely, almost anything would be better.

And why does 40% of the restoring light line want us to stand still when so many of the encounters require you to move around. I like Rune Focus, but the circle is so small and you don't get it's full benefits unless you stand still.

I'll adapt just fine. I'm guessing it will be those telling templar healers they need to learn to play who will be whining about their DPS suffering while they take more dirt naps.

Artjuh90

Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

this is pissing me off more then BoL. you can learn to addapt without BoL many non-templar healers already did. but i think templars should be a tad beter healers because they have a whole treeline dedicated to it. so the healing/support skills should be usefull and not to forget there are 4 passives that come with it aswell. the 4 passives should make it more powerful healer then other classes. just like a dk is a bit beter in crowd control while tanking and a sorcerer is at dps.

NewBlacksmurf

So I understand your thread and played a little bit of PTS yesterday and today.

There are other healing changes that seem to negate the effectiveness of healing multiple targets.
That's the concern and all the benefits to healing don't replace this change.

I'd have much rather it heal one more than before but 50% less but add the positive updates.

Just me perspective

Artjuh90

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I understand your thread and played a little bit of PTS yesterday and today.

There are other healing changes that seem to negate the effectiveness of healing multiple targets.
That's the concern and all the benefits to healing don't replace this change.

I'd have much rather it heal one more than before but 50% less but add the positive updates.

Just me perspective

yes that's what i mean with the post above you 30% less healing like WH0T. just try to see ZOS nerf DPS by 30% and see what will happen.

AfkNinja

They didn't need to nerf BOL, it will not stop people from complaining in PVP because the issue was never about the heal being too strong imo. There are already ways to handle strong heals, namely Defile or just focused burst.

This issue was smart healing not requiring a line of sight check, which it STILL doesn't. That pvp target you are about to kill? Yea the Templar can STILL heal him from the other room, this changes nothing and resolves nothing.

Artjuh90

AfkNinja wrote: »

They didn't need to nerf BOL, it will not stop people from complaining in PVP because the issue was never about the heal being too strong imo. There are already ways to handle strong heals, namely Defile or just focused burst.

This issue was smart healing not requiring a line of sight check, which it STILL doesn't. That pvp target you are about to kill? Yea the Templar can STILL heal him from the other room, this changes nothing and resolves nothing.

effects PvE mutch more.....
again......

Bossdonut

The problem is we got changes and nerfs and the other 3 got changes and buffs at the behest of a bunch of whiners on twitch.

That is a summary of this patch and why we are pissed. It's more to the principle of it and not the nerf itself.

tinythinker

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

this is pissing me off more then BoL. you can learn to addapt without BoL many non-templar healers already did. but i think templars should be a tad beter healers because they have a whole treeline dedicated to it. so the healing/support skills should be usefull and not to forget there are 4 passives that come with it aswell. the 4 passives should make it more powerful healer then other classes. just like a dk is a bit beter in crowd control while tanking and a sorcerer is at dps.

Maybe I can top that...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245483/stealth-nerf-to-puncturing-sweep

Artjuh90

tinythinker wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

this is pissing me off more then BoL. you can learn to addapt without BoL many non-templar healers already did. but i think templars should be a tad beter healers because they have a whole treeline dedicated to it. so the healing/support skills should be usefull and not to forget there are 4 passives that come with it aswell. the 4 passives should make it more powerful healer then other classes. just like a dk is a bit beter in crowd control while tanking and a sorcerer is at dps.

Maybe I can top that...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245483/stealth-nerf-to-puncturing-sweep

story of the life of the templar

sekou_trayvond

I applaud OP for bringing forth an argument absent overwrought tirades, name-calling and childish pouting.

This is like the unicorn of threads right now on these forums.

Essiaga

The problem with Breath of Life and the nerf to it is the complete lack of damage mitigation in the Templar class ...

*Sun Shield Battle spirit nerfed to ineffective and inefficient.

*Blinding Flashes removed leaving us with out Miss Chance and nothing to replace it.

Other abilities such as Eclipse are weaker and more limited then skill versions. Cleansing Ritual was being used to absorb/negate spell projectile and this Update that will be remove as well.

So they nerfed Healing (5% really isn't much but) after nerfing our mitigation with out giving us another option to survive. Here is what I think the class needs to help both magicka and stamina builds.

- Add Maim debuff Solar Barrage

- Add Evasion to Rune Focus (but let it STAY with the templar outside the run)

- Nerf Harden Ward (since its not really used out side PVP) down to its PVP size and remove the nerf to Shields from Battle Spirit. Sun Shield (GDB and Igneous Shield) becomes useful again.

Stam Build could use, at the very least, the last two to help their survival even if they cost magicka. Though the do need some stamina love (Jabs should have Brutality buff instead of Savagery and a Stam Charge morph at the least.)

Then talk to us about removing Healing and nerfing BOL. Right now its the only in class skill that keeps us alive. That's why Templars go Vamp. We don't really need more DPS. We need to be able to survive long enough to DPS you down. We don't need Mobility to run away. We need the mitigation to "stand our ground."

This update will only further identify us as the "stand your groud class" with "fixes" to Rune Focus so that the effects are sure to wear off immediately upon leaving the Rune. It also nerfed Puncturing Strikes(jabs) healing by 5% claiming that the Mending buff applied when standing in Rune or Cleansing Ritual will make up for it, which means it will need to be recast over and over for either a net magicka loss or a net healing loss. Its impractical to stand inside Rune in PVP and increasing more impractical in PVE content.

ZOS changed buffed useless skills to be slightly less useless, but still not worth using. The failed to improve our Passives which provide no regen or stat increase and are lame by the other 3 classes standards.

Short of some added mitigation and passive regen this balance update is an absolute flop for the templar and does nothing to balance the classes. Giving everyone the same DPS statistically in PVE does not equate to balance in classes.

PVE healers will not be killed by this update. PVP won't be that much worse off.But when your worse off then you were which was tied for last in PVP and the class/build you shared that spot with got some solid work down to them and no really negatives it becomes increasingly frustrating. Especially when you look at what the NB class became with the last balance update that came out. We spelled it out for them in a 20 page thread and we got very little to go with the stuff the took away leaving us with the feeling that we're going to be at the bottom for another year before ZOS looks at class "Balance" again.

This goes far beyond BOL and is far older then the day this patch notes were posted or PTS went live with TG.

Iove

This thread has so many good points, I agree with all of the above.
I don't even think I have anything constructive to add, except Healing Ritual really didn't get the change it needed.

Artjuh90

you are forgetting the great ultimate templars have acces to

BRogueNZ

Also not concerned.

I never really like the fact I can't guarantee it to heal me for as much as I need it too in a group especially if you are the only healer. Healing Ritual was good in that regard in fact it heals you more than anyone else but yeah.. that cast time though, it's designed for predictable damage so timing is more important

I've been healing without BoL anyway for some time now because I knew it would happen. There is enough healing over time abilities for healers to ultilise and are probably more effective if you think prevention rather than desperate cure and really, if one person misses out on a BoL heal they will just have to get the next cast. People x many will still spam it.

Destruent

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

this is pissing me off more then BoL. you can learn to addapt without BoL many non-templar healers already did. but i think templars should be a tad beter healers because they have a whole treeline dedicated to it. so the healing/support skills should be usefull and not to forget there are 4 passives that come with it aswell. the 4 passives should make it more powerful healer then other classes. just like a dk is a bit beter in crowd control while tanking and a sorcerer is at dps.

This is not a nerf, it's a buff...on live-server you got 30% more healing from restoring light skills for people in your healing ritual/purifying ritual. Now you increase your healing while standing in healing ritual, doesn't matter which healing or where your allies stand. It's a buff for me...but not for those who just want to spam BoL...