If we called it level 66....
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hydrocynus
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...would there still be such a big hooha about the veteran ranks?
I honestly do not understand what the fuss is with them. To me they are just level extensions past level 50, and for me there is no difference between level 49-50 as there is from VR1-VR2 (except maybe the difference in XP required but that is easily fixable - they already reduced it once).
Somebody please give me a good reason why the VR's have to go? i just dont understand it. This cant be the only MMO that adds levels when it adds new content? It just makes sense to me to add levels?
this is not a troll thread - i genuinely want to know what the fuss is about and why they cant stay.
I honestly do not understand what the fuss is with them. To me they are just level extensions past level 50, and for me there is no difference between level 49-50 as there is from VR1-VR2 (except maybe the difference in XP required but that is easily fixable - they already reduced it once).
Somebody please give me a good reason why the VR's have to go? i just dont understand it. This cant be the only MMO that adds levels when it adds new content? It just makes sense to me to add levels?
this is not a troll thread - i genuinely want to know what the fuss is about and why they cant stay.
My internet is invalid
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BeanBagGamer✭✭You aren't the only one.
Instead it looks like we are now going to end up with some over complicated levelling system through champion points.
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Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭reasons to remove vet ranks :
- lack of content
- lack of exp in pvp
- lack of exp in dungeons
- pvp community who feels entitled to be in endgame in 5 minutes
- cadwell's silver and gold breaking immersion
making it lvl 51, 52 ect. would feel strange for new players, lvl 49 -> 50 100k exp. lvl 50 -> 51 850k? wtf a increase of 8.5 times the exp is strange.5 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You could use the search function to read the 100 threads that have come before asking the same question.
Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.0 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭reasons to remove vet ranks :
- lack of content
- lack of exp in pvp
- lack of exp in dungeons
- pvp community who feels entitled to be in endgame in 5 minutes
- cadwell's silver and gold breaking immersion
making it lvl 51, 52 ect. would feel strange for new players, lvl 49 -> 50 100k exp. lvl 50 -> 51 850k? wtf a increase of 8.5 times the exp is strange.
Lack of content - how is this a VR level issue? makes no sense
Lack ov XP in PVP - but you are battle levelled and can enter from lvl 10 - how is this a VR level issue?
Lack of Exp in Dungeons? Again you scale to the level you want - why is this a VR level issue?
pvp community - why is this different from point 2
Cadwells silver and gold - I agree that is pointless, but why is this a VR level issue? I havent done it on all my V16 chars - levelled in many other ways. How is this a VR level issue?My internet is invalid9 -
kupacmac✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »...would there still be such a big hooha about the veteran ranks?
I honestly do not understand what the fuss is with them. To me they are just level extensions past level 50, and for me there is no difference between level 49-50 as there is from VR1-VR2 (except maybe the difference in XP required but that is easily fixable - they already reduced it once).
Somebody please give me a good reason why the VR's have to go? i just dont understand it. This cant be the only MMO that adds levels when it adds new content? It just makes sense to me to add levels?
this is not a troll thread - i genuinely want to know what the fuss is about and why they cant stay.
Now ask yourself the same question if you play 8 characters.4 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
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Now ask yourself the same question if you play 8 characters.
This ^
Also, CP has a catchup mechanic, VR is just 13 million XP of blah.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion3 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭
Now ask yourself the same question if you play 8 characters.
So what is the difference between getting your 8 characters from 40 to 50, and from V1 to V16? Is it just the XP per level? Is that all? you are happy to have to grind yourself silly to get them all to 50 and accept it, but V1 to V16 you dont? what is the difference?
In fact what you are saying is that VR levels are not the problem - its the XP per level that is the problem. So VR levels can stay just make them have proportional XP requirements to those levels before them and the system then works?
My internet is invalid0 -
Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭hydrocynus wrote: »
Lack of content - how is this a VR level issue? makes no sense
Lack ov XP in PVP - but you are battle levelled and can enter from lvl 10 - how is this a VR level issue?
Lack of Exp in Dungeons? Again you scale to the level you want - why is this a VR level issue?
pvp community - why is this different from point 2
Cadwells silver and gold - I agree that is pointless, but why is this a VR level issue? I havent done it on all my V16 chars - levelled in many other ways. How is this a VR level issue?
lack of content makes the feeling of doing the same quests feel for certain people like a grind. making different paths with different quest will provide a good part of the community less of a feeling that vet 16 is a grind. just check the post it is always about leveling their alts to vet 16. you dont see many people talking about their main not getting vet 16.
so more content makes your time in the game feel less like doing the same for a good amount of people
lack of exp in pvp. unlike what i just mentioned there is a part of the community that just straight up doesn't like to do quests and do pve content. fine by me but the difference of the amount of exp you get from quests and pvp isn't in proportion. This part of the community mainly plays this game for the endgame. making the exp gains way higher here with an option to turn exp off (for the people who like both but don't want to get overleveled in their pve area) will be greatly appricianted.
Lack of exp in dungeons. this is kinda with the same point i just made of the exp at pvp. there is a group of competitive PvE players who want to level fast aswell making things like leaserboards for trials (which are now kinde useless but ok) and vMSA makes people want to have a character faster max level. so why block this people by achiefing this. they already nerfed exp gain from grinding mobs which i don't really get. let the players do what they want.
pvp community was crying about the vet system the hardest. part of this can be fixed by my 2nd point
ad the point you made at cadwell's they keep nerfing ginding mobs which you have probably done to get several chars to et 16 and how fun was that?1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »In fact what you are saying is that VR levels are not the problem - its the XP per level that is the problem. So VR levels can stay just make them have proportional XP requirements to those levels before them and the system then works?
The wall of XP is one issue, the need to repeat in on alts is another, and the need to grind-on-rails through Caldwell's is yet another. The hope is that removing VR addresses all three.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion4 -
Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
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The wall of XP is one issue, the need to repeat in on alts is another, and the need to grind-on-rails through Caldwell's is yet another. The hope is that removing VR addresses all three.
that is why i make my point. the levels themselfs aren't the problem the road to them ...1 -
kupacmac✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »
So what is the difference between getting your 8 characters from 40 to 50, and from V1 to V16? Is it just the XP per level? Is that all? you are happy to have to grind yourself silly to get them all to 50 and accept it, but V1 to V16 you dont? what is the difference?
In fact what you are saying is that VR levels are not the problem - its the XP per level that is the problem. So VR levels can stay just make them have proportional XP requirements to those levels before them and the system then works?
I'm not talking about getting 8 characters to level 50. I'm talking about getting 8 characters to VR16. Under the new system every character you have who's level 50 benefits from you leveling any other character. So if you want to shelve your healer and play your tank for 2 weeks, both characters are leveling at the same time. You don't have to go back to the healer and re-do all the content you just did on your tank.2 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not talking about getting 8 characters to level 50. I'm talking about getting 8 characters to VR16. Under the new system every character you have who's level 50 benefits from you leveling any other character. So if you want to shelve your healer and play your tank for 2 weeks, both characters are leveling at the same time. You don't have to go back to the healer and re-do all the content you just did on your tank.
YEah no for sure i understand but what i am saying, is what is the difference between getting your characters to level 50 compared to level V16. Its a grind both ways for a second character. It doesnt just become a grind at V1. its the whole way through.
Shouldnt people therefore be moaning to say that CP should be earned from level 1 and not from V1, because currently until they get their alts to V1 they do not earn CP. People are happy that they have to level to 50 for every character and thereafter they gain CP for all other characters. Shouldnt people be moaning about not gaining CP from lvl 1 onwards?
My opinion - if you add new content like Imperial City or Wrothgar, it is only natural to raise the level cap to give something to aim at. Its the way of an MMO.
Fair enough - the wall of XP i understand must come down, but i still feel it is important to have levels added when new coten is added. Seems like they have gone back to this now with CP, with the CP cap. Its now the same as adding VR levels just in much smaller increments.My internet is invalid0 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭
that is why i make my point. the levels themselfs aren't the problem the road to them ...
Yeah i understand - that seems to be the thing - the amount of XP requied.
If 49-50 needs 100k, then maybe it would be more accepted if V1-V2 is 120k, then V2-V3 is 150k, etc etc.
My internet is invalid0 -
Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭hydrocynus wrote: »
Yeah i understand - that seems to be the thing - the amount of XP requied.
If 49-50 needs 100k, then maybe it would be more accepted if V1-V2 is 120k, then V2-V3 is 150k, etc etc.
problem will occur when you want to do cadwell's though you get overleveld in the first area.
they could fix this with battle leveling though0 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »
Yeah i understand - that seems to be the thing - the amount of XP requied.
If 49-50 needs 100k, then maybe it would be more accepted if V1-V2 is 120k, then V2-V3 is 150k, etc etc.
There's also the whole "I just traveled to Oblivion, saved the world and but the beat down on the Lord of Domination, now I have to chase guar in Stonefalls" thing.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion2 -
Think the people whining are the ones who feel the need to play 8 different characters but dont want to level 8 different characters.
Theres a simple fix to this. Pick one character and play it. If you want another max character, then expect to have to level up another one. ZoS redesigning the entire vet leveling tier should have never even come up. Its a waste of time and resources. There really is nothing wrong with it.
If ZOS was smart they would just keep the vet levels and charge for race changes and even class changes in the crown store. They have reduced exp for vet levels and its really not that hard to reach vet 16. Yes, it takes a little while. The question should be, how bad do you want to be v16? And shouldnt be, how easy are they going to make it for me to level up my alts?
They are releasing new content at a steady pace now so the "lack of leveling content" arguement should be thrown out the window. There is alot to do and there is only going to be more in the near future. Keeping vet levels would actually form another reason for people to purchase the DLC. (if they get bored of leveling in the same old spots, buy the DLC!)
I feel like the only reason they are sticking with removing them is simply because they made the mistake of saying they would in past.3 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »If ZOS was smart they would just keep the vet levels and charge for race changes and even class changes in the crown store. They have reduced exp for vet levels and its really not that hard to reach vet 16. Yes, it takes a little while. The question should be, how bad do you want to be v16? And shouldnt be, how easy are they going to make it for me to level up my alts?
So, games are supposed to be fun. I pay a sub to have fun. Grinding 100 million XP across my alts is not fun. Why keep it?@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion3 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
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So, games are supposed to be fun. I pay a sub to have fun. Grinding 100 million XP across my alts is not fun. Why keep it?
You don't have to grind. Just play and have fun.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »
You don't have to grind. Just play and have fun.
Caldwell's was fun the first time through, kinda lame the second, and an outright chore the third. I can't bring myself to do it again. So now it's a grind, and thus not fun.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion5 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭I have 7 characters and i want them to stay. I'd make an 8th but not sure which way i want to go with it lol1 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭Im just giving agrees left and right, keep the discussion going. As for me they can do whatever the hell they want as long as I get the god damn bloodspawn helm ive been trying to farm for 2 weeks now. If I get one this week and it's with a bad traut I'll leave this game for a few months.0
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lets see here.
They introduced two catch up mechanics (enlightenment and the new xp system)
They reduced total xp requirements to level
They have introduced new content (IC and Wrothgar)
Now they will do away with VRs.
Ill be honest, im gonna guess after all this we will still hear, "the grind is too much" because nothing has stopped it yet.
I don't know how to feel about the proposed plan for the removal of vet ranks.
Logically it will reduce the amount of content for me. You may wonder why.
Right now I have... lets say 120 CPs. With the new change, ill be lvl 50 but gain 160 CPs. This will put me up to 280 CPs, leaving me 221 CPs till max. Roughly a couple of months worth of playing. Right now I was looking at... (with current system) roughly 160ish days of playing.
With universal CPs, my theoretical alt will have even less incentive to play past the first PvE content (the 1 thru 50 levels)
... however gaining 160 CPs... does sound pretty cool... talk about a catch up mechanic!!
Also, for all the lower levels, Thank You ZoS for trying!1 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭The "new max level" will be what the new CP cap will be and that will be raised for every new DLC, so ZOS is adding more char levels per DLC. If the proposed system is in place now, the new "level" will be 501 (the current CP cap).
I am not sure how I feel about the new proposed system, still looking at the data and thinking about the pro and cons of it.
For example, I have 6 VR16s, one almost to VR15, and one level 17. How would the skills and stats work once my level 17 char hit level 50 / VR1?0 -
Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭there will be another part aswell, one i haven't even thought up untill now. ok they implement the cp leveling system over the vet system. you make a new toon and want to continue to play through cadwell's. doesn't mater how they will change the new area they will screw it up:
option 1: they keep it like it is now, when you do want to play cadwells every tiny bit of challenge there is in it is gone. you are going from lvl to same strenght as you'r main.
option 2: they make cadwell's battle leveled: now ther eis such big level gap between it that you HAVE TO craft gear for this toon (which can become expensive if you prefer to play multiple toons) or buy gear which is even more expensive. so this will even discourge to make a new toon.
p.s. option 2 counts same for DLC and PVP0 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People seem to have no other problems...
I agree with this "but what's the deal" thing. What is the REAL (I repeat: REAL) difference between regular levels and VR? They both give you 1 skill point and 1 attribute point and enable to use higher levels items (corresponding to the level/VR gained), etc. Much slower acquisition of VR than of regular level? Yeah, that's why it's called VETERAN ranks!
The game has so many other issues waiting to be resolved that potential VR replacement is at the end of that queue. Don't you folks really have no other issues/wishes regarding the game improvement? Previously, the VR replacement was neutral to me, I really didn't care about whether it will be removed or not. I would be okay with their removal but it would depend on how they would do it. Now I am very worried since I've read the most recent hint from the devs on their plans regarding VR... If that is to be done like that, I am strongly against the VR removal.1 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭hydrocynus wrote: »...would there still be such a big hooha about the veteran ranks?
I honestly do not understand what the fuss is with them. To me they are just level extensions past level 50, and for me there is no difference between level 49-50 as there is from VR1-VR2 (except maybe the difference in XP required but that is easily fixable - they already reduced it once).
Somebody please give me a good reason why the VR's have to go? i just dont understand it. This cant be the only MMO that adds levels when it adds new content? It just makes sense to me to add levels?
this is not a troll thread - i genuinely want to know what the fuss is about and why they cant stay.
For my reasons (and there are many), please refer to the many other threads, posted by people asking the exact same question, using the search box above. Thank you.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges0 -
Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
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Removing vet ranks isn't suddenly going to make content. In fact, I kind of feel that, instead, having the player level suddenly stop at 50 is going to make people feel like they hit the end game faster and have zero avenues to progress (even with the Champion system). It's like taking away 16 levels, and going "Well, you've done it! You're at the end!"reasons to remove vet ranks :
- lack of content
Now, I get the end goal is to have Level 50 coincide with defeating Molag Bal, but... yeah. Content will still be dead. Cadwell's Silver and Gold is going to be infinitely worse because you're going to have NO REASON to even bother trying to do it now. Silver and Gold exist to give a bit of a buffer. Remove VR, and Silver and Gold have no reason to exist. And that "lack of content" wall will feel like it's even closer.
The only reason people will go for it is to nab Skyshards.
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ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Removing vet ranks isn't suddenly going to make content. In fact, I kind of feel that, instead, having the player level suddenly stop at 50 is going to make people feel like they hit the end game faster and have zero avenues to progress (even with the Champion system). It's like taking away 16 levels, and going "Well, you've done it! You're at the end!"
Now, I get the end goal is to have Level 50 coincide with defeating Molag Bal, but... yeah. Content will still be dead. Cadwell's Silver and Gold is going to be infinitely worse because you're going to have NO REASON to even bother trying to do it now. Silver and Gold exist to give a bit of a buffer. Remove VR, and Silver and Gold have no reason to exist. And that "lack of content" wall will feel like it's even closer.
The only reason people will go for it is to nab Skyshards.
Completely and respectfully disagree. You do for the experience, not for the number.
Instead of hitting 50 and having two options - grinding mobs and grinding quests in Cadwells - instead the player will have a MULTITUDE of options. Silver and Gold, end game PVP, veteran dungeons, pledges, Craglorn... all open at level 50 and there for you whenever you're in the mood.
So many options, so little time!
Edit: Forgot to add. These ALL give XP that contributes towards CP gain, so whatever you choose to do, you'll always be 'progressing through the numbers' with champion points.Edited by ItsGlaive on November 20, 2015 8:01PMAllow cross-platform transfers and merges2 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What is the REAL (I repeat: REAL) difference between regular levels and VR? They both give you 1 skill point and 1 attribute point and enable to use higher levels items (corresponding to the level/VR gained), etc. Much slower acquisition of VR than of regular level? Yeah, that's why it's called VETERAN ranks!
They are boring and tedious, full stop. Many people left the game because they saved the world with their character and were then told they had to do it again, twice, before they had actually beat the game. When you make a product and part of that product drives your customers away then it might be in the best interest of the company to remove that part of the product.
Imagine you produced the best soft drink in the world, but packaged it in a can that cut people's lips. Do you tell your customers "No pain no gain! You have to work for that awesome flavor!" or do you just start packaging in plastic bottles? Which one do you think keeps customers coming back and makes more money in the long run?@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1