If we called it level 66....
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Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭Removing vet ranks isn't suddenly going to make content. In fact, I kind of feel that, instead, having the player level suddenly stop at 50 is going to make people feel like they hit the end game faster and have zero avenues to progress (even with the Champion system). It's like taking away 16 levels, and going "Well, you've done it! You're at the end!"
Now, I get the end goal is to have Level 50 coincide with defeating Molag Bal, but... yeah. Content will still be dead. Cadwell's Silver and Gold is going to be infinitely worse because you're going to have NO REASON to even bother trying to do it now. Silver and Gold exist to give a bit of a buffer. Remove VR, and Silver and Gold have no reason to exist. And that "lack of content" wall will feel like it's even closer.
The only reason people will go for it is to nab Skyshards.
that's why i call it a cloak/smoke screen for bigger problems which will bring bigger issues with them just watch ...0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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They are boring and tedious, full stop. Many people left the game because they saved the world with their character and were then told they had to do it again, twice, before they had actually beat the game. When you make a product and part of that product drives your customers away then it might be in the best interest of the company to remove that part of the product.
Imagine you produced the best soft drink in the world, but packaged it in a can that cut people's lips. Do you tell your customers "No pain no gain! You have to work for that awesome flavor!" or do you just start packaging in plastic bottles? Which one do you think keeps customers coming back and makes more money in the long run?
Why if they don't like silver and gold do they do it?
Im v16 over 120 CPs.... and have done 0 silver and gold. And IMO the only grind I have done was for TV stones.0 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Removing vet ranks isn't suddenly going to make content. In fact, I kind of feel that, instead, having the player level suddenly stop at 50 is going to make people feel like they hit the end game faster and have zero avenues to progress (even with the Champion system). It's like taking away 16 levels, and going "Well, you've done it! You're at the end!"
Now, I get the end goal is to have Level 50 coincide with defeating Molag Bal, but... yeah. Content will still be dead. Cadwell's Silver and Gold is going to be infinitely worse because you're going to have NO REASON to even bother trying to do it now. Silver and Gold exist to give a bit of a buffer. Remove VR, and Silver and Gold have no reason to exist. And that "lack of content" wall will feel like it's even closer.
The only reason people will go for it is to nab Skyshards.
I 100% agree with you and I'm surprised how some people try to argue that it won't be like that.
In practice, it will be nothing else like removing 16 levels! I treat CP only as a supplement/addition to the proper levelling system. If after 50 level there will be only that, the game will be so dull and extremely boring! We will be deprived of many aspects of the game that give us pleasure and left only with CP...1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Why if they don't like silver and gold do they do it?
Im v16 over 120 CPs.... and have done 0 silver and gold. And IMO the only grind I have done was for TV stones.
Admittedly, I did silver/gold 3 times over before IC/Wrothgar when there were basically no other options besides PvP, and I missed the bus for all the Craglorn grinding, so I'm a little over-sensitive about Caldwell's. Some of the vet zones I find enjoyable (Rivenspire comes to mind), others I would never go to again if I can help it (looking at you Shadowfen). If they were to keep the current vet levels, not add any more vet levels but continue to add new zones then the Caldwell's issue would slowly fade away. But in my opinion a world that fully opened up after Coldharbour would be much more enjoyable.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
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I 100% agree with you and I'm surprised how some people try to argue that it won't be like that.
In practice, it will be nothing else like removing 16 levels! I treat CP only as a supplement/addition to the proper levelling system. If after 50 level there will be only that, the game will be so dull and extremely boring! We will be deprived of many aspects of the game that give us pleasure and left only with CP...
Deprived of what? I'd really be interested to learn.
Other than a number going up once ever few hundred thousand exp, absolutely nothing will have changed for you. A number going up by 1 isn't progression. New gear, new experience and areas, interesting quests, capturing keeps... that's the real progression.
In fact, with a new lvl 50 toon, you'll have more options for what you want to spend time doing with your character because you're not gated by VRs.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges2 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »...would there still be such a big hooha about the veteran ranks?
I honestly do not understand what the fuss is with them. To me they are just level extensions past level 50, and for me there is no difference between level 49-50 as there is from VR1-VR2 (except maybe the difference in XP required but that is easily fixable - they already reduced it once).
Somebody please give me a good reason why the VR's have to go? i just dont understand it. This cant be the only MMO that adds levels when it adds new content? It just makes sense to me to add levels?
this is not a troll thread - i genuinely want to know what the fuss is about and why they cant stay.
Good honest question and very reasonable.
VR should have never existed outside of PvP in the first place....but it came about during closed BETA and as such Cadwell should have also never existed as it does so think of the VR1-VR10 being gone.
-VR11-12, VR13-14 existed for Craglorn and a later max level bump so perhaps levels 51 and 55 would exist but the game stops at 45-50 as far as the main story and back then VR exp was not normal exp you wouldn't level past 50 unless in Cadwell, Cyrodil zones until Craglorn was released
Also your skills and stuff, even crafting stop at 50 so it doesn't make sense to go past 50 unless everything goes past 50
*Cadwell content should exist but no different than how Orsinium exists today.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on November 20, 2015 8:27PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Speaking of Cadwell's silver / gold -- any theories how that going to work now? Will be open up or it be gated by CP? If it is gated by CP, then how much do one needs to go from silver to gold?0 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
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Deprived of what? I'd really be interested to learn.
Other than a number going up once ever few hundred thousand exp, absolutely nothing will have changed for you. A number going up by 1 isn't progression. New gear, new experience and areas, interesting quests, capturing keeps... that's the real progression.
In fact, with a new lvl 50 toon, you'll have more options for what you want to spend time doing with your character because you're not gated by VRs.
ESO is still RPG and levelling, by gaining levels, skill points and attribute points, is of the essence as in the other game of that type. By gaining CP's I don't feel like levelling and progressing since the extent of changes made by each CP is unnoticeable. Slower levelling is not a problem for me cause, as you said, I do quests, capture keeps, and after it all, I gain one VR which I feel that I deserve it.0 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭End game is here! I think they are trying to force us to leave Tamriel!
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)0 -
Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭reasons to remove vet ranks :
- lack of content
- lack of exp in pvp
- lack of exp in dungeons
- pvp community who feels entitled to be in endgame in 5 minutes
- cadwell's silver and gold breaking immersion
making it lvl 51, 52 ect. would feel strange for new players, lvl 49 -> 50 100k exp. lvl 50 -> 51 850k? wtf a increase of 8.5 times the exp is strange.
this comment is stupid, here is an explanation why:
lack of content: this is so untrue, everybody knows it, doing quests in other factions is a HUGE content, get a veteran 1 character with 0 exp, do EVERY QUEST in the other alliances zones,cyrodiil and craglorn, and come and tell us if you end up veteran rank 2 or 3 or 16 plz oh and guess what.. DLC quests give exp.
lack of exp in pvp? i dont remember leveling from PvP.. well i used to gain ranks in Battlefield 4 and BFH by kills, but ESO is an MMO,, not FPS,
lack of exp in dungeons: well placing a correct sentence between 4 wrong sentence doesnt make the whole paragraph correct.
.... whatever...
cadwell silver and gold are awesome. in an MMO.. they are awesome. in ESOTA story line.. they are more awesome.PC EU0 -
Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
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this comment is stupid, here is an explanation why:
lack of content: this is so untrue, everybody knows it, doing quests in other factions is a HUGE content, get a veteran 1 character with 0 exp, do EVERY QUEST in the other alliances zones,cyrodiil and craglorn, and come and tell us if you end up veteran rank 2 or 3 or 16 plz oh and guess what.. DLC quests give exp.
lack of exp in pvp? i dont remember leveling from PvP.. well i used to gain ranks in Battlefield 4 and BFH by kills, but ESO is an MMO,, not FPS,
lack of exp in dungeons: well placing a correct sentence between 4 wrong sentence doesnt make the whole paragraph correct.
.... whatever...
cadwell silver and gold are awesome. in an MMO.. they are awesome. in ESOTA story line.. they are more awesome.
i actually do the cadwell's in it's fullest on all my toons but before you are bitching about me not doing it this is what i read on the forum, don't beleave me check it yourself. and if you do level several toons doing the same thing over and over especially if you aren't a RPer i can get why it get's boring/
on lack of exp in pvp i will just qoute your own words " dont remember leveling from PvP"
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ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
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ESO is still RPG and levelling, by gaining levels, skill points and attribute points, is of the essence as in the other game of that type. By gaining CP's I don't feel like levelling and progressing since the extent of changes made by each CP is unnoticeable. Slower levelling is not a problem for me cause, as you said, I do quests, capture keeps, and after it all, I gain one VR which I feel that I deserve it.
Tradtionally RPGs do have levels, you're right. But that doesn't mean it always has to be so. Thing is, players are trained after years of those games, to expect levels, but it's just a mindset. It's just a number. Take that away and you're still getting new gear, you're still going on new adventures and exploring new lands and you're still achieving things by doing so.
Levels have become a crutch for the developer and a drug for the player, but they aren't needed for the game to work.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges0 -
Dear✭✭✭I... I would like to level to 69...
*sideglance*✉ DEAR | PC-NA | PVE | RP | BETA | NEWBIE | MAIN: MAROON |
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temjiu✭✭✭✭It's more then just VR. VR is one small part of a huge whole. re-optimizing stats on gear, creating new requirements for them, scaling tons of areas and dungeons...its all part of a bigger package they are trying to put together. It all boils down to one thing:
Revamping the elder game to get rid of the train rails they had before. the slap stick last minute job they threw in when they realized that their "MMO" didn't have an end game. so they recycled the other two stories and forced people into them. and Labeled your reward "VR".
then they forced people into Craiglorne. PvP wasn't even really an option due to lack of exp, and bad balance issues at the same time. then Imperial City came out...and again, you were forced into a mold.
I was one of those perps that left the game when i realized what VR was. Here's the thing: it's not just about the levels themselves...if they gave us lvls 51-80 it would probably be an upgrade from VR. but they're dropping them to move in a new direction, and to open up end game. they want a park for us to play in, not a hallway with no doors.
Personally, for me it's less about the VR levels, and more about Elder game. In all honesty, most people looking forward to the changes aren't focused on the VR levels themselves. They mean very little in the grand scheme of things. I think that's why so many people could care less if they go away. I personally do not like what they represent. if they changed them to regular levels I'd be cool with that too. But they're not...they're getting rid of them. leveling ends at 50. CP is elder game progression. the idea that VR levels are part of the leveling progression really was born from the VR levels themselves, as well as the narrow playstyles that they forced you into to suffer through them.
given that, it's not surprising that they are doing away with the VR levels. they're trying to change the elder game, and VR was a part of that. A very visible part of that with a reputation that was negative, to say the least. I'm sure there are some PR reasons behind the change as well (not the ONLY reason, but it's there). Add to it that there are very few mechanics reasons to keep VR, and its a logical conclusion.1 -
Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭doing cadwell silver takes 6 hours, you want the leveling system in the MMO TESO-TA change because of that 6 hours is bothering you?PC EU0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭doing cadwell silver takes 6 hours, you want the leveling system in the MMO TESO-TA change because of that 6 hours is bothering you?
It takes a lot longer to complete the skills quests, shards alone but then the other unlocks. No one is complaining about 6 hours (not sure how you came up with that) but they complain about the need to do silver n gold over and over again due to what's locked in those zones.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »
Lack of content - how is this a VR level issue? makes no sense
Lack ov XP in PVP - but you are battle levelled and can enter from lvl 10 - how is this a VR level issue?
Lack of Exp in Dungeons? Again you scale to the level you want - why is this a VR level issue?
pvp community - why is this different from point 2
Cadwells silver and gold - I agree that is pointless, but why is this a VR level issue? I havent done it on all my V16 chars - levelled in many other ways. How is this a VR level issue?
What this guy said.0 -
temjiu✭✭✭✭doing cadwell silver takes 6 hours, you want the leveling system in the MMO TESO-TA change because of that 6 hours is bothering you?
Far more then 6 hours for the average player. And it has nothing to do with want....it's happening. I didn't ask for them to remove VR levels per-se, but I think I already explained myself just fine in my speech above.0 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭reasons to remove vet ranks :
- lack of content
- lack of exp in pvp
- lack of exp in dungeons
- pvp community who feels entitled to be in endgame in 5 minutes
- cadwell's silver and gold breaking immersion
making it lvl 51, 52 ect. would feel strange for new players, lvl 49 -> 50 100k exp. lvl 50 -> 51 850k? wtf a increase of 8.5 times the exp is strange.
This^"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
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Now ask yourself the same question if you play 8 characters.
This^"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0