[Suggestion] Alternative CP Advancement
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Zinaroth
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Hey there everyone!
As this is a suggestion post for an overhaul of a massive system it will be adressed to ZOS, though I do encourage everyone to post any thoughts they have on the system proposed here, I would more than love to hear responses from the community, as any system change is guaranteed to have a variety of feelings provoked by it from different people who are in different places during their game experience.
A little about us:
@Paulington and me are both members of <Hodor>, which is one of the more competitive PvE guilds on the EU megaserver. Paul is a newcomer to the guild and I recently came back to the game after 6 months, and was overtaken by the new content, and with Orsinium incoming I quickly got addicted again. Personally I am currently at 235 CP and Paul is at 3XX CP. While Paul did help me do some of the equation on my take on the CP system proposed here, we differ in opinions and if you want to see his suggestion, which is far more fletched out than mine, but still in favor of hard caps, go check it out at;
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2335912#Comment_2335912
The reason for my suggestion:
I, like most of the community, agree, that the CP system is due for an overhaul. It is segregating people to the point where skill is no longer a factor, we would like to get the skill factor back in the game while still maintaining the CP progression since we’re both fans of constant character growth, like in Diablo III. But if there’s one thing I myself despise more than being beaten by someone just because they grinded more than myself, it is to artificially having my progress haltered by developers to make up for a broken system. With the new system proposed, sure you can still progress past the 501 CP mark, but with a sudden increase in triple XP required it suddenly becomes an abomination of an obstacle to overcome, more so than I think is needed. The new system has so many different mechanics that it is becoming very hard to figure out; a hard cap at 501 after which XP needed is suddenly tripled, a “soft cap” at 338 after which you need more XP in the new iteration, rested XP, exponential growth for each CP (which I honestly think is a cool idea, but which again breaks at 501… And then there’s the point suggested by @Paulington in previous posts which basically substantiates that it is impossible to really “catch up” to people with XXXX amount of CP before a hard cap is introduced which actually surpasses their amount of CP, which in short means that every time a new DLC comes out and the cap is raised they will have an advantage, until they get surpassed by the cap, and we can’t catch up to them because we will be earning the CP they already earned three times as slow. It’s all really complicated, but there are bits of good ideas inbetween all the blurry badness… Which brings me to what I think would the best iteration for a new CP system, following the mantra of @Paulington; “simple is better”.
The system:
Current CP level * 1000 + 50000
This is the magic formula. It’s simple and it gets the job done. But let’s not leave it at that, allow me to explain it a bit.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iX6kRm9nkstp0R6hE_Pr3Tw69GHCtkOp68llHUeoZ_M/edit#gid=924680624
On the right you see the current system used on live, on the left you see the system I am advertising below.
What this formula does is about the same as Paragon Levels do in Diablo III, if anyone played that game. For each CP you earn, the next CP will cost a tiny bit more. This might not seem like a big change, but in the long run it’s a lot of XP needed when you get into the higher CP levels.
As we can see from the sheet @Paulington constructed in all his geniousness, the current system evens up with this new system around the 700 CP mark, which would basically mean that everyone currently below 700 CP would get more, and everyone above would get less, after the convertion, and yes there would need to be a convertion, which should be easy to do for ZOS considering they can just take a persons amount of CP and multiply it by 400.000 (the current rate) and then translate it into the new system. Sure any leftover XP might get lost in this transition but it would be minor and not worth mentioning in my opinion. As we can also see from the sheet this system does basically the same as the new system provided by ZOS; the XP needed for 501 is almost the same as with the new system.
So why is this system better?
It doesn’t hinder anyones progress using an absurd and artificial 3x XP needed multiplier to try and keep the grinders from grinding and getting ahead.
But how does this system allow for people to catch up?
It doesn’t per say, but what it does is it gives people with lower CP a lot more power for the same amount of XP as it takes a person with a high amount of CP to get a single level.
Let’s use an example:
We have all heard how some people have around 2000 CP now already. With this new system those players would firstly be bumped down to 1215 CP. But wait that’s a lot of CP lost! Yes it is, but it comes with the benefit of that person being able to continuously grind not fearing that the CP he gains today, won’t be ten times as fast gaining in a month or two, a pretty nice trade off for a hardcore player I would think. But let’s get back to the player who is now at 1215 CP; to make his next CP he would have to get 1.266.000 XP, to compare that would take a new player from 0-20, or a steady player from 200-205. And they wouldn’t just be earning 20 or 5 times the power the hardcore player would earn, because as we all have to remember, the passives in the champion trees are still made in such a way that the more points we put into a passive, the less increase we get with each point. Plus for each CP we earn, we get less and less stat bonuses aswell.
I could post more examples like this, but the numbers kind of speak for themselves, everyones welcome to go through them and compare scenarios.
With the system I propose the gap between players would naturally decrease over time, and pretty fast at that too.
Now some might think that they wouldn’t be getting CPs fast enough with this or that when you get higher the CP progress will be too heavy and slow; this could easily be adjusted by changing the multiplier, which obviously and ultimately would be a decision for the developers, since they’re sitting with all the data.
I believe that with this system, we will have a system that will both benefit people who play less, but also the people who want to keep growing their characters strength, even if it means farming for 10 hours for that 0.1% extra fire resist or whatever, compared to new players getting a lot more power in the same amount of time using the same farming method.
This system will also be very simple and easy to understand for everyone, which is something that is very important for new players, and people who play the game in a more lightly manner, something which the system ZOS is currently planning on introducing does not accomplish at all, in my opinion.
It is my hopes that this suggestion will be taken into consideration and we hope there is still time to tweak the numbers if it comes to the point where ZOS decides to use it. It goes without saying that me and @Paulington only spend our time on this because we are very passionate about the game and don’t agree with the direction taken with the CP system. That being said we both look very much forward to Orsinium, it looks awesome, and obviously, being Hodor members, we have our fingers crossed for some new Trials in the coming future.
Please don’t kill the game for your very passionate players in an attempt to cater to people who aren’t able to play as much when an option exists that could benefit both!
Regards
@Paulington and @Zinaroth
@ZOS_RyanRuzich @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Feel free to post a comment if any of you see this so I know it's reached the people I wanted to at least check it out, thank you!
NB:
Rested XP would obviously still be a thing with this system to alleviate players who can only log in once every week or whatever, and help them keep up.
As an added bonus to this system the system would last a longer time into the future, and not be something someone would have completed in a year or something like that at the current rate.
To go with this system I would like to suggest that ZOS introduce achievements at every 100 mark, and not just at the 300, 600 and 1200 marks, as a means to verify your CP level by linking the achievement.
Even Shia LaBeouf agrees with us and thinks you should just; “Do it!”:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-VsDk7SIXa8
As this is a suggestion post for an overhaul of a massive system it will be adressed to ZOS, though I do encourage everyone to post any thoughts they have on the system proposed here, I would more than love to hear responses from the community, as any system change is guaranteed to have a variety of feelings provoked by it from different people who are in different places during their game experience.
A little about us:
@Paulington and me are both members of <Hodor>, which is one of the more competitive PvE guilds on the EU megaserver. Paul is a newcomer to the guild and I recently came back to the game after 6 months, and was overtaken by the new content, and with Orsinium incoming I quickly got addicted again. Personally I am currently at 235 CP and Paul is at 3XX CP. While Paul did help me do some of the equation on my take on the CP system proposed here, we differ in opinions and if you want to see his suggestion, which is far more fletched out than mine, but still in favor of hard caps, go check it out at;
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2335912#Comment_2335912
The reason for my suggestion:
I, like most of the community, agree, that the CP system is due for an overhaul. It is segregating people to the point where skill is no longer a factor, we would like to get the skill factor back in the game while still maintaining the CP progression since we’re both fans of constant character growth, like in Diablo III. But if there’s one thing I myself despise more than being beaten by someone just because they grinded more than myself, it is to artificially having my progress haltered by developers to make up for a broken system. With the new system proposed, sure you can still progress past the 501 CP mark, but with a sudden increase in triple XP required it suddenly becomes an abomination of an obstacle to overcome, more so than I think is needed. The new system has so many different mechanics that it is becoming very hard to figure out; a hard cap at 501 after which XP needed is suddenly tripled, a “soft cap” at 338 after which you need more XP in the new iteration, rested XP, exponential growth for each CP (which I honestly think is a cool idea, but which again breaks at 501… And then there’s the point suggested by @Paulington in previous posts which basically substantiates that it is impossible to really “catch up” to people with XXXX amount of CP before a hard cap is introduced which actually surpasses their amount of CP, which in short means that every time a new DLC comes out and the cap is raised they will have an advantage, until they get surpassed by the cap, and we can’t catch up to them because we will be earning the CP they already earned three times as slow. It’s all really complicated, but there are bits of good ideas inbetween all the blurry badness… Which brings me to what I think would the best iteration for a new CP system, following the mantra of @Paulington; “simple is better”.
The system:
Current CP level * 1000 + 50000
This is the magic formula. It’s simple and it gets the job done. But let’s not leave it at that, allow me to explain it a bit.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iX6kRm9nkstp0R6hE_Pr3Tw69GHCtkOp68llHUeoZ_M/edit#gid=924680624
On the right you see the current system used on live, on the left you see the system I am advertising below.
What this formula does is about the same as Paragon Levels do in Diablo III, if anyone played that game. For each CP you earn, the next CP will cost a tiny bit more. This might not seem like a big change, but in the long run it’s a lot of XP needed when you get into the higher CP levels.
As we can see from the sheet @Paulington constructed in all his geniousness, the current system evens up with this new system around the 700 CP mark, which would basically mean that everyone currently below 700 CP would get more, and everyone above would get less, after the convertion, and yes there would need to be a convertion, which should be easy to do for ZOS considering they can just take a persons amount of CP and multiply it by 400.000 (the current rate) and then translate it into the new system. Sure any leftover XP might get lost in this transition but it would be minor and not worth mentioning in my opinion. As we can also see from the sheet this system does basically the same as the new system provided by ZOS; the XP needed for 501 is almost the same as with the new system.
So why is this system better?
It doesn’t hinder anyones progress using an absurd and artificial 3x XP needed multiplier to try and keep the grinders from grinding and getting ahead.
But how does this system allow for people to catch up?
It doesn’t per say, but what it does is it gives people with lower CP a lot more power for the same amount of XP as it takes a person with a high amount of CP to get a single level.
Let’s use an example:
We have all heard how some people have around 2000 CP now already. With this new system those players would firstly be bumped down to 1215 CP. But wait that’s a lot of CP lost! Yes it is, but it comes with the benefit of that person being able to continuously grind not fearing that the CP he gains today, won’t be ten times as fast gaining in a month or two, a pretty nice trade off for a hardcore player I would think. But let’s get back to the player who is now at 1215 CP; to make his next CP he would have to get 1.266.000 XP, to compare that would take a new player from 0-20, or a steady player from 200-205. And they wouldn’t just be earning 20 or 5 times the power the hardcore player would earn, because as we all have to remember, the passives in the champion trees are still made in such a way that the more points we put into a passive, the less increase we get with each point. Plus for each CP we earn, we get less and less stat bonuses aswell.
I could post more examples like this, but the numbers kind of speak for themselves, everyones welcome to go through them and compare scenarios.
With the system I propose the gap between players would naturally decrease over time, and pretty fast at that too.
Now some might think that they wouldn’t be getting CPs fast enough with this or that when you get higher the CP progress will be too heavy and slow; this could easily be adjusted by changing the multiplier, which obviously and ultimately would be a decision for the developers, since they’re sitting with all the data.
I believe that with this system, we will have a system that will both benefit people who play less, but also the people who want to keep growing their characters strength, even if it means farming for 10 hours for that 0.1% extra fire resist or whatever, compared to new players getting a lot more power in the same amount of time using the same farming method.
This system will also be very simple and easy to understand for everyone, which is something that is very important for new players, and people who play the game in a more lightly manner, something which the system ZOS is currently planning on introducing does not accomplish at all, in my opinion.
It is my hopes that this suggestion will be taken into consideration and we hope there is still time to tweak the numbers if it comes to the point where ZOS decides to use it. It goes without saying that me and @Paulington only spend our time on this because we are very passionate about the game and don’t agree with the direction taken with the CP system. That being said we both look very much forward to Orsinium, it looks awesome, and obviously, being Hodor members, we have our fingers crossed for some new Trials in the coming future.
Please don’t kill the game for your very passionate players in an attempt to cater to people who aren’t able to play as much when an option exists that could benefit both!
Regards
@Paulington and @Zinaroth
@ZOS_RyanRuzich @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Feel free to post a comment if any of you see this so I know it's reached the people I wanted to at least check it out, thank you!
NB:
Rested XP would obviously still be a thing with this system to alleviate players who can only log in once every week or whatever, and help them keep up.
As an added bonus to this system the system would last a longer time into the future, and not be something someone would have completed in a year or something like that at the current rate.
To go with this system I would like to suggest that ZOS introduce achievements at every 100 mark, and not just at the 300, 600 and 1200 marks, as a means to verify your CP level by linking the achievement.
Even Shia LaBeouf agrees with us and thinks you should just; “Do it!”:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-VsDk7SIXa8
2
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TheLaw✭✭✭✭Interesting read but I doubt it's not something they've considered. I will agree that the champion system is broken as a whole and does not make up for lack of content.-= Shahrzad the Great |Sorc| =-1 -
Interesting read but I doubt it's not something they've considered. I will agree that the champion system is broken as a whole and does not make up for lack of content.
the lack of content, has been a big issue. when all to do is to grind, what are players going to do...? without scaling the current content's experience, and not adding new content while revamping the game to depend on the champion system (not the other way around as should have been). there's little to do. i don't blame player not wanting to grind and i don't blame players that did grind.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Interesting read but I doubt it's not something they've considered. I will agree that the champion system is broken as a whole and does not make up for lack of content.
In that case I think they need to reconsider it.
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »the lack of content, has been a big issue. when all to do is to grind, what are players going to do...? without scaling the current content's experience, and not adding new content while revamping the game to depend on the champion system (not the other way around as should have been). there's little to do. i don't blame player not wanting to grind and i don't blame players that did grind.
Exactly, which is why I think my solution is better. It offers a better solution to both casuals and hardcore players.
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Johngo0036✭✭✭✭✭Hi,
At 699 CP you are even with the current system,
Then i like what happens from there,
CP become exponentially harder/Higher XP to get the next level..
Good Job, hope ZOS picks this up as it may not be the total solution however it is considerably better that current..
PC EU Megaserver
@Johngo0036
CP900+
Altmer Magicka Sorcerer |The-Irritable-Witch(DC)
Orc Stamina Dragonknight | Gru-Bolar(DC)
Dunmer Magicka Nightblade | Chewbucca(DC)
Khajit Stamina Nightblade | Gleaming Daggers(DC)
Altmer Magicka Nightblade | Miss Chewbucca(EP)
Argonian Magicka Templar | Walks-With-Friends(EP)
Argonian Templar Healer | Dr Toxic(EP)
Orc Stamina Sorc | Lady Streaks-Alot(DC)
Dunmer Magicka DK | Whips-n-Chains(DC)
Nord Warden | Demi Tank(DC)
Dunmer Magicka Warden | Crafter-O-Crafts(DC)
Bosmer Stamplar | Forest-Plump(DC)
Argonian Hybrid Nb | Men-O-Paws(DC)
Bosmer Stamblade | 'Maui(AD)
Altmer Magicka Sorcerer | Mid-Life-Crisis(AD)0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Johngo0036 wrote: »Hi,
At 699 CP you are even with the current system,
Then i like what happens from there,
CP become exponentially harder/Higher XP to get the next level..
Good Job, hope ZOS picks this up as it may not be the total solution however it is considerably better that current..
Yeah me too, thanks. 0 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its not 338 its at about 180 that you will then need more exp to reach cap than previously... for instance at 190 cp's I will now need an additional 1 million exp to reach 501.I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4500 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭nimander99 wrote: »Its not 338 its at about 180 that you will then need more exp to reach cap than previously... for instance at 190 cp's I will now need an additional 1 million exp to reach 501.
Sorry but I think you're reading my spreadsheet wrong then. Every CP up to 700 will be faster then now, at 700 they will start costing more than 400k.0 -
In that case I think they need to reconsider it.
Exactly, which is why I think my solution is better. It offers a better solution to both casuals and hardcore players.
not saying your solution is wrong or bad, but i really think the solution is to fix the problem. clearly PVP and grinding mobs is at a spot that works for CPs. quests and dungeons are not. just fix these two areas and we would be fine for new/returning players, and keep people diverse in how they acquire CPs. maintain that direction, and ensure DLCs render a minimum amount of CPs
the whole math to catch-up/bundle up/limit power... i just don't see it working, at this point.Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 6:48PMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
not saying your solution is wrong or bad, but i really think the solution is to fix the problem. clearly PVP and grinding mobs is at a spot that works for CPs. quests and dungeons are not. just fix these two areas and we would be fine for new/returning players, and keep people diverse in how they acquire CPs. maintain that direction, and ensure DLCs render a minimum amount of CPs
the whole math to catch-up/bundle up/limit power... i just don't see it working, at this point.
I totally agree. More difficult content should net better XP rewards.
I still think a change to the current CP system is also needed though.
Don't see why the two wouldn't be able to go hand in hand though. 0 -
I totally agree. More difficult content should net better XP rewards.
I still think a change to the current CP system is also needed though.
Don't see why the two wouldn't be able to go hand in hand though.
and people have proposed some really great ideas. i mean the creativity the player base has had for solutions, makes me feel they are paying to be creative consultants.
if you step back, and look at the next DLC, its gear grind, 20hours of story, and a bad readjustment to the champion system. this wreaks of NGE-like destruction. that pack really did a number on the player base, we may end up seeing it here as well. SWG died and was shut down, EQ which has the same current system on live, just released another expansion. as it stands, i wouldn't recommend the new DLC or eso in general (and i already have turned away new players)I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »and people have proposed some really great ideas. i mean the creativity the player base has had for solutions, makes me feel they are paying to be creative consultants.
if you step back, and look at the next DLC, its gear grind, 20hours of story, and a bad readjustment to the champion system. this wreaks of NGE-like destruction. that pack really did a number on the player base, we may end up seeing it here as well. SWG died and was shut down, EQ which has the same current system on live, just released another expansion. as it stands, i wouldn't recommend the new DLC or eso in general (and i already have turned away new players)
Well I hope this won't happen to ESO, I still have faith in this game.
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i don't. the totality of the next DLC has made progress in ESO moot. i have my game discs being shipped to me, and i updated Rift, and my wife and i are talking alternative MMOs. theres a 99% chance ZoS will stick to their guns with their changes; and thus theres a 99% chance we are gonna go else where. this would be the 3rd time hosing the top 25%, theres no incentive just there, to be anywhere near the top 25% if they continually and habitually cut the top. eventually, just by accident we will be that top 25%, and we won't want to be caught up in this *** storm again. its just economically sound to cut ties and our losses now, than to wait for a sinking ship to strike the bottom of the sea, before hopping on a life raft...
they will ultimately purge the wrong players, and the game will become unsustainable economically...Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 7:27PMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
i don't. the totality of the next DLC has made progress in ESO moot. i have my game discs being shipped to me, and i updated Rift, and my wife and i are talking alternative MMOs. theres a 99% chance ZoS will stick to their guns with their changes; and thus theres a 99% chance we are gonna go else where. this would be the 3rd time hosing the top 25%, theres no incentive just there, to be anywhere near the top 25% if they continually and habitually cut the top. eventually, just by accident we will be that top 25%, and we won't want to be caught up in this *** storm again. its just economically sound to cut ties and our losses now, than to wait for a sinking ship to strike the bottom of the sea, before hopping on a life raft...
they will ultimately purge the wrong players, and the game will become unsustainable economically...
I understand your concerns and share some of them, but let's take it one fight at a time.
This topic is dedicated to the fight for a better CP system. 0 -
I understand your concerns and share some of them, but let's take it one fight at a time.
This topic is dedicated to the fight for a better CP system.
TLDR its about the TOTAL environment, that these equations WONT work
which is my intent. i think my proposal may net the best customer experience. not saying this is a concrete right or wrong, its just a philosophical debate.
my proposal encourages a positive game play experience for most, for the way the system is currently built, and the environment in total, without hindering or slowing progress in any way.
mathematically, without changing the systems there is no incentive to PAY to play. i have gold and craglorn left to do; my wife has silver and gold, and is at the same point in crag as me. by the time we finish both we will hit diminished returns on a system with diminished returns, so the reward to continue is less.
our plan was to subscribe, net the 10% to experience, test out IC and orsinium, and decide which to buy. based on the math, we will hit the soft cap, just finishing the game that we have left, so all we get is a 20 hour questing experience (done in a weekend), and a gear grind, that by the time we finish, the new VRs will be out.
if they adjust quest experience to add and enhance progression, they reduce the load for VRs, push players to an expected minimum CPs for just playing the game, incentives new content purchases for more "easy CPs", and the game gets the income to sustain itself on the way buy-to-play/free-to-play is based on- a balance of burst and consistent income. the top 25% is typically the sustained income, where the bottom 25% is burst. the middle 50% is a combination of both. cut the top 25% 100% of the time, and you eventually are left with only burst income.
ill also point out, the new system has already built a rift between those "gifted billions of experience" and those that must "endure the grind" the below suggestion, should be more to the middle ground of reducing "grinding" while boosting returns. the equation in the upcoming DLC is based on rift's system, but the current system is built on the same design as the EQ AA system. rift has HUGE amounts of quests and EQ has HUGE amounts of grind. ESO is the middle, so they must play to that middle.
**the bottom attached was my suggestion in case its not been read/seen based on my experience with the EQ alternate ability and Rifts planar attunement system **
if the first 120 are the most significant points, then divide that into silver and gold so they each render 60 CPs each from one-time quests.
gold = 60cp
silver =60cp
total = 120cp
with this in mind, using my wife and i as an example, my wife would have a total of 120CP pocketed; i would have 60cp pocketed. my wife is currently sitting around 70ish CP, so that means after completing silver and gold she would have a MINIMUM of 190ish points.i however, am sitting around 220ish points, there for once i complete gold, ill have a minimum of 280cps. without modifying current mechanics of the champion system to address the issue, addressing the net gains for play time, has put me near the 340, while putting my wife above the important 120. this is roughly based on a casual player's style of game play. if a player does more than just quest, they stand a chance to ensure they get more than just the expected.
if a new player comes, they would be expected to have a MINIMUM of 120cps by the time they complete silver and gold. this would plus/minus some, based on how they go about completing the 1-50 content. i would gotten more than the alloted 120 because i was VR5 before completing 1-50 content. however, my wife would have netted slightly above 120, since she was around VR2 on completing, 1-50 content. someone who slams through 1-50, would probably net the alloted 120cps from silver and gold, IF they complete silver and gold.
if ic/orsinium is geared for people 120CPs (finishing gold+silver) and the net expectation is that the goal is meet 160CPs just make the quests equate to 40CPs. this incentives continued progress, and to purchase the new DLC, or at least subscribe for the sake of progression
a diverse play-style will produce better results, as the experience gains increase, to cover the increase of level caps.
if you don't like people grinding, then ensure they quest to gain their expected CPs.
the comment i put in bold is why, ultimately, this new system is going to do more harm than good. its mathematics are correct, but not proper for the >total< environment. that environment is based hugely on diversity of game-play experience. my 4 hours will not be my wife's 4 hours, which won't be your 4 hours, and their 4 hours.
so i broke expected minimum gains down:
silver= 60cps
gold=60cps
crag=30cps
IC=20cps
Orsinium= 20cps
total= 190cps
or
silver= 60cps
gold=60cps
crag=30cps
IC=25cps
Orsinium= 25cps
total= 200cps
or for those without the DLC:
silver= 60cp
gold=60cp
crag=30cp
total= 150cp
those are the expected minimum gains if you do all the one-time quests ONLY, under my purposal. (not including enlightenment because that is to remain intact as is now, along with the rest of the system). this would produce an environment, that also reduces the workload for VRs, so it strikes two blows, with one swing of the fist...
this also produces an environment that better ables content to be balanced. the DLC after orsinium, can be geared around the 190/200CP minimum expectation. it should produce another "X" CPs that the next DLC will be based around. it also helps dictate when an update to the system, in the form of more passives and purchasable benefits are needed.
enlightenment must changed from a universal component and be applied ONLY to offline players. enlightenment will aid players with less time in the game to "catch up" by enhancing their returns while questing.Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 8:33PMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
adding to my proposal, consider the following:
the average playing (supposedly) sits are 96CPs. for the sake of simple math lets call it 100
under my proposal, if they bought orsinium they would acquire 20/25CPs from quests minimum. if they spent 100% of that time under enlightenment bonus (i think its 4x multiplier) they would receive 80/100 CPs. that would bring the "average player base" to 180/200 CPs total. that's just from quests in orsinium. that number would steadily rise with the more content that they have that still has quests (gold, silver, craglorn, IC).
it gives new players a chance, and brings up the average player, with minimal grinding; while not hindering and stopping the upper 50% that is important for sustained growth. it will also bring the equally critical burst income, from players that DLC hop, as they stand some chance to catch up, but not equal those with more time (and money potential).I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think they should raise the CP XP on quests, but it shouldn't be the best source of CP XP in the game, that should be the harder content like dungeons and trials.0 -
I think they should raise the CP XP on quests, but it shouldn't be the best source of CP XP in the game, that should be the harder content like dungeons and trials.
dungeons could certainly use a boost (a fair amount of content could use a boost). i always wished dungeons would be like the group form of experience grind locations, but the point is a means of players to "catch up" and solo is the best means and easiest to manage. keep in mind, these are only one time quests. one and done.
trails/raids have never been a good source of anything but gear. its too niche, to be a solid source of experienceEdited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 14, 2015 8:35AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
dungeons could certainly use a boost (a fair amount of content could use a boost). i always wished dungeons would be like the group form of experience grind locations, but the point is a means of players to "catch up" and solo is the best means and easiest to manage. keep in mind, these are only one time quests. one and done.
trails/raids have never been a good source of anything but gear. its too niche, to be a solid source of experience
I certainly don't mind quests giving a good chunk of CP, aslong as it's not so much that leveling alts and completing quests become the fastest way to get them.
Trials would probably become less niche and worth farming if they upped the XP gain in there.
But I am also biased since I am in a top end raiding guild.0 -
I certainly don't mind quests giving a good chunk of CP, aslong as it's not so much that leveling alts and completing quests become the fastest way to get them.
Trials would probably become less niche and worth farming if they upped the XP gain in there.
But I am also biased since I am in a top end raiding guild.
i had a really bad headache so i was brief last night...
the reason i went with the numbers i did (and keep in mind its to give an expected MINIMUM so they can be adjusted), was in hopes to bring the total current environment, up to a needed point. it will raise a players CP to 200, but they will still have to grind, farm, do world bosses etc. but for those that don't have to time to grind, will still have a means to catch up a bit easier. the alt-aholics may be an issue, they will have greater access to CPs, but then on the flip-side, they only really alt... its the same with grinders-a grinders gotta grind. i would not at all be against removing the account bound status to CPs regardless of the system. with my proposal, people still sub, still buy experience pots/scrolls, and buy DLC for CPs if not for content. its the best business decision in my opinion.
in the future they could also add quests that give CPs just the same as they do skill points. for the overall financial health of the game this is the best course of action, for both CPs AND VRs, while allowing casuals to hardcores, gain and progress while also still feeling relevant.
dungeons could use a boost which would help with offsetting quest experience as the "best" experience. the only reason it would be "lower" than questing with my proposed change is its repeatability. so it should indeed be a moderate increase per boss. it also takes more time than solo just getting a group, so i do share the "i don't want quests to be too good". but over time quests could be less and less valuable with the increase of over all mob experience, for the increase in level/VR cap.
i was a long time hardecore raider as well, and raids can be tricky, they tend to drop the best loot in the game, but never really the experience. i always felt the philosophy was a trade for gear over experience. but on the flip side, this game seems more geared to a combination of grind+quest to get somewhere, and trails could be more of the grind side of things enough to get people in them. but then if too many get in and too many that just aren't good at the game, complain they will nerf the difficulty and it could be the next CWC. i could see it feasible of doing a raid version for the undaunted, which could produce this based on the extreme challenge yields extreme rewards.
sorry if some of this is incoherent, its a side effect i get from migrainesEdited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 14, 2015 7:56PMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
MrTtheDK✭✭✭This is exactly the type of system that I would like to see put into place. Hopefully someone at ZoS takes note of this. The system they are proposing is not at all adequate to address the cp system nor fair given the sheer lack of content since SO/VDSA for dedicated players.Main:
DC- Diablo Azul , Mr T
Alts: Nerf Something or Another
Guild: - Imperial City Police
RIP Guilds: Purple, WKB, Eight Divines, Rage, What Mechanics, Entropy Rising
Game: @TalosSeptim0 -
FeaR TurboClass RepresentativeYES. Its all about helping the new players. Who cares if we did 70-71 and it cost us 400k xp. We played and still play. There will be no more new players that stick with the game if they don't get help catching up. I would love nothing more than having more people in the game to join guilds and become friends. My friends quit the game back when it was so hard to level to vet 10 through every zone. Having them come back and getting CP and seeing the content would make me so happy.
It about helping the game grow. The cap is meh. I could see how it would affect PVP. but in PVE its not that big of a deal honestly.. Once you hit a certain amount you could max your main damage tree and be set. Except for sorcs who do magic and shock. I mean True DPS. I know Stamina templars have burning light and if you could have 100 points into magic plus mighty and blah blah. But its not needed. So I mean Help The players get the a comfort point and maybe only cap CP in PVP???
I'm not here to be rude or say my way is the best but I mean really.. Why not help the new players don't cap CP in PVE (maybe or maybe not) . Only truly Cap it in PVP and make it scale as the cap changes like this post says.
All in all just help the new players don't hinder the players that played since beta and balance PVP and PVE separate IMO.
OFF TOPIC Put some damn battle arenas in !!! ^_^ and re do another VDSA from a daedric lord or something. Trial of course. all in good time though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBwEoj14_68
Here is a video I was messing around with and back in that PTS 1.6 we could use 3200 CP and I didn't mean to use those clips while editing but it stands now as a point of reference. 3200 CP was doing around 20k DPS (obviously im not the best player) people were out raged. Haha it was because i was using ALL the CP and I apologized but like months later with like 300 CP you can do the same DPS. Now obviously the gear has increased and such but the fact still remains does CP in PVE doesn't really gain you MASSIVE damage after a certain point? So helping the new players catch up is honestly one of the best things that could happen....
Edited by FeaR Turbo on October 15, 2015 4:52AM0