New Changes Drastically Weakend crafted sets. Takes away from playability. Nerf Nerf and more Nerf

MrBeatDown

I finally got to see how bad the nerfing has become for crafted sets now that IC is here. At first, without having all the information at my finger tips, I figured I could live with the changes. NOW, I see that this is really a very harsh nerf that is intended to Hide the best slot gear behind the paywall. The only reason to trash the older sets, was not for balance, but to make you pull out your wallet and buy the IC. I will not do that. I refuse to pay for a broken game with horrific lag, and after watching them nerf everything in this game, I cant say when ill decide to spend money with these folks again. The only thing I can do at this moment, Is find a stealth grind zone and keep my mouth shut. Ill just grind CP's until next update and see if this design team can figure out how bad their ideas really are.

Read it and Weep

JD2013

How exactly is it a paywall? If you have ever played an mmo, you will know that big DLC's come with new gear and you don't get that for free. Would you, for example, ask for a WoW expansion for free? Either sub up and get the content or buy the new area like you have to with every major DLC for any game ever.

As for nerfs . . . You're surprised they made old gear weaker? Saw that coming. Sadly that's how they make new gear seem better a lot of the time, by making older gear redundant.

P3ZZL3

Not to mention, it's only 2500 crowns which I think most people who have ever subscribed had anyhows

Thecapeo

Actually I've never seen an MMO that made old gear weaker with an expansion. Put out new, stronger gear with an expansion? Sure. But nerf old gear? That's a pure cash grab. And it's a kick in the teeth to console players that just got the game a few months ago and have worked to get their gear up to legendary and find a build that works for them.

Master_Kas

Thecapeo wrote: »

Actually I've never seen an MMO that made old gear weaker with an expansion. Put out new, stronger gear with an expansion? Sure. But nerf old gear? That's a pure cash grab. And it's a kick in the teeth to console players that just got the game a few months ago and have worked to get their gear up to legendary and find a build that works for them.

This is so true . Anyone denying this is fanboying to hard.

No problem with bringing better sets in. But nerfing the old just so people want / are nearly forced to get the new ones to stay competetive? GG.

MrBeatDown

JD2013 wrote: »

How exactly is it a paywall? If you have ever played an mmo, you will know that big DLC's come with new gear and you don't get that for free. Would you, for example, ask for a WoW expansion for free? Either sub up and get the content or buy the new area like you have to with every major DLC for any game ever.

As for nerfs . . . You're surprised they made old gear weaker? Saw that coming. Sadly that's how they make new gear seem better a lot of the time, by making older gear redundant.

I wasn't the fool that dumped money on this DLC content because I have a brain. I didn't like the mechanics or the fail to fix the server lag for pvp. When people get excited about something because its new and they decide to blow money and SUPPORT a change without thinking about it, it really shows how ignorant they are. This is the same type of stunt blizzard entertainment did with Diablo 3, They Boasts about the 30 million plus sales, while about 30k people still play the game, and the company calls it a win. If you ever read there forums, you would see thousands of unhappy players that got sucked into those pay wall games and how UNHAPPY they are about it. I speak with my wallet... Im not a fool with my money. Thanks, and stay small with low aspirations for games like this and these tactics for generating sales. Make a good clean game with a better server performance and stop making the combat so boring and I might pay money for it.

ghostwise

Can anyone point out the gear differences from before and after?

Leandor

What is the difference between making the new sets stronger than the old ones, respectively increase the set bonuses for the new levels as opposed to retain maximum value and lower the old level set bonuses?

The effect is, at least to my understanding, the same - sets at the old maximum level are weaker than sets at the new maximum level. Boggles my mind to understand the complaint, I'm sorry.

But thanks for biting the bullet and pull together a comprehensive summary of crafted set bonuses, much appreciated.

MrBeatDown

ghostwise wrote: »

Can anyone point out the gear differences from before and after?

These guys have not updated it yet. But the did add the IC Sets. So it might change soon.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Set+Bonus+Crafting+Locations

Faulgor

What nerf? Most of them are better than before.
Hunding's is more amazing than it has ever been.
I'll go craft a new Kagrenac's Hope set later today.
I even have plans to use Oblivion's Foe on a new character.

In short, nonsense.

Molag_Crow

I fail to see the difference... on Magnus' set for example, it's still the same? from your picture, ofc

Is your picture showing the sets before the nerfs, or?

aco5712

tbh the only thing i have a problem with is making the new 3 piece jewel sets so strong that they are a must to have basically. I didnt notice any of the old sets getting nerfed too hard unless you look at something like archmage but thats only one out of many.

Flameheart

Thecapeo wrote: »

Actually I've never seen an MMO that made old gear weaker with an expansion. Put out new, stronger gear with an expansion? Sure. But nerf old gear? That's a pure cash grab. And it's a kick in the teeth to console players that just got the game a few months ago and have worked to get their gear up to legendary and find a build that works for them.

I have never seen a total gear nerf (just maybe a few special pieces) in other MMOs too, but still...it's hard to see according the above link, appears the same for me. We might need a before / after comparison for on par (all VR 14, all white) items.

Tavore1138

Problem is that in 3 months time when next DLC comes they introduce yet another new currency, nerf the IC sets and start again... One expects new gear to chase with expansions but if they have to nerf the old stuff and fundamentally change game mechanics to make it seem desirable then they have failed to design good gear....

BuggeX

Thecapeo wrote: »

Actually I've never seen an MMO that made old gear weaker with an expansion. Put out new, stronger gear with an expansion? Sure. But nerf old gear? That's a pure cash grab. And it's a kick in the teeth to console players that just got the game a few months ago and have worked to get their gear up to legendary and find a build that works for them.

i see some buffs and some nerfs, it was just some balanceing....

and btw, if you mean the flet numbers of max Stamina/magicka/hp, this got a Overall nerf also on v16 gear in compared to other stats

P3ZZL3

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I wasn't the fool that dumped money on this DLC content because I have a brain.

Ummm, said the guy who has been subscribed since Feb.2014 to when?? You've paid far more than any of these new people who have bought the game & the DLC - yet you accuse them of not "having a brain" ???

Leandor

I think OP's complaint refers to the fact that weapon and spell damage bonuses have been reduced significantly over the values of 1.6.

Basically, the fact that ZOS tries to curb power creep by limiting the numbers progression on item bonuses seems to be a bad thing in his opinion.

Now if the complaint is based on the issue that the new jewellery sets do grant higher set bonuses than any other set in comparison, thereby strongly discouraging the use of V14 sets for additional 5-piece bonuses (healer and footman being the examples that come to mind), then it would have merit.

Other than that, I concur with @Faulgor, I feel like more sets are now valid options (I will love kagrenac on my templar... instant revive ftw)

Tankqull

Thecapeo wrote: »

Actually I've never seen an MMO that made old gear weaker with an expansion. Put out new, stronger gear with an expansion? Sure. But nerf old gear? That's a pure cash grab. And it's a kick in the teeth to console players that just got the game a few months ago and have worked to get their gear up to legendary and find a build that works for them.

actually i prefer this approach as it significantly lessens the power creep effect by addons wich is one of the reasons i absolutly hate WOW.

MrBeatDown

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I wasn't the fool that dumped money on this DLC content because I have a brain.

Ummm, said the guy who has been subscribed since Feb.2014 to when?? You've paid far more than any of these new people who have bought the game & the DLC - yet you accuse them of not "having a brain" ???

I am no longer a subscriber of this game... I actually had ZOS issue me a 3 month credit (because they would not refund) for them lying to me about the game when it first came out. Without going to far into my compensation with you, since your just a random, They basically lied to me about the system requirements of this game upon release in order to secure a 6 month premium subscription with them. They then changed the system requirements of this game after 3 months of release of this game with the craglorn release and I was one of the ones that they had to do something for because I had saved my emails with these crooks. Ive since found out, that my hardware was not the issue with this game and that it is in fact ZOS server that is crappy (and that's just an observation I have with running with guildies that have optimized machines and suffer the same problems I do in cyrodiil). Anyways, and yes I still have those emails, You need to find something else to talk about since I do have to wait before jumping to spend money with this company because of their track record with me and several others (many of which have not come back!).

Thanks.

Runs

It would be a whole lot easier if we had something to compare to. Your hand crafted list can't compare to the list from the website you posted because most of their items have been upgraded to legendary while yours are still white. There is only one set where both the item level and quality are the same, Twice Born Star.




It would be interesting to see the rest of the set bonus'es side by side comparisons with same level same quality items.

MrBeatDown

Runs wrote: »

It would be a whole lot easier if we had something to compare to. Your hand crafted list can't compare to the list from the website you posted because most of their items have been upgraded to legendary while yours are still white. There is only one set where both the item level and quality are the same, Twice Born Star.




It would be interesting to see the rest of the set bonus'es side by side comparisons with same level same quality items.

Im not going to burn the mats or do the math for an in depth evaluation of the differences in these sets for a presentation. If you cant see what happened to this stuff and do your own math, than this list of items wont help you. Yes a few pieces got a "Buff" or had a more desirable 5 point bonuse added to them, but most suffered a nerf. Nerfs are in the form of lower life/magic/stamina totals and damage output. Some of the sets even had the bonuses removed or replaced to less than desirable bonuses IMO. It looks weaker to me now, (with the exception of like 2 sets) than it was before. And it also appears that these sets were re designed to only work well with IC sets combined. So they basically changed these sets to suite IC Gear meaning that it is a pay wall to maximize a character without buying IC update.

blackronin83x

So it's been what, like a year since we (on the pc [aka the paying testers]) have had new content right? And what were you expecting, that your gear would remain as good relative to new releases options? Whether they had left the values in place & buffed what is in IC or any other method, relatively speaking your gear is just as powerful... Yes the face values have changed but I would hope ppl are savvy enough to understand it impacted every1, not just u so we are all still on equal footing. Yeah ur DPS/HPS might not look as pretty but i still had guildies completeing VDSA with new world records yesterday (~22k)

Also don't know what your definition of optimized machine is, but with the exception of prime-time AZ, I never encounter lag issues in PvP. That is with country internet, no fancy city FIOs round here ... And when I do, I switch campaigns and pick a fight somewhere else. Problem solved.. but maybe that is too linear for folks...

Finally, I was in IC for a solid block post release and it was fun. At the end of the day, that is all i care about... 2500 crowns/a gillion hours = a good value to me in terms of what i actually pay per hr of entertainment.

MrBeatDown

blackronin83x wrote: »

So it's been what, like a year since we (on the pc [aka the paying testers]) have had new content right? And what were you expecting, that your gear would remain as good relative to new releases options? Whether they had left the values in place & buffed what is in IC or any other method, relatively speaking your gear is just as powerful... Yes the face values have changed but I would hope ppl are savvy enough to understand it impacted every1, not just u so we are all still on equal footing. Yeah ur DPS/HPS might not look as pretty but i still had guildies completeing VDSA with new world records yesterday (~22k)

Also don't know what your definition of optimized machine is, but with the exception of prime-time AZ, I never encounter lag issues in PvP. That is with country internet, no fancy city FIOs round here ... And when I do, I switch campaigns and pick a fight somewhere else. Problem solved.. but maybe that is too linear for folks...

Finally, I was in IC for a solid block post release and it was fun. At the end of the day, that is all i care about... 2500 crowns/a gillion hours = a good value to me in terms of what i actually pay per hr of entertainment.

Its obviously what you like, so keep small aspirations, find you a new zone to play in because its not lagging, pay for the gear to optimize your character, and keep paying for complete nerfs and re writes of values in this game to completely altar the combat in this game. Too many hassles for me to thrown money at. I learned to make better use of my money when it comes to entertainment. I have just been playing this to kill time, and it was almost fun (minus all the bugs they refused to fix, the horrible server lag, and a mound of other things) and waiting for the next game company to come out and make a game that starts out decent and becomes great. These folks got their quick dollar out of me already, so I will not toss cash at trash anymore. Thank you.

Zershar_Vemod

Thecapeo wrote: »

Actually I've never seen an MMO that made old gear weaker with an expansion. Put out new, stronger gear with an expansion? Sure. But nerf old gear? That's a pure cash grab. And it's a kick in the teeth to console players that just got the game a few months ago and have worked to get their gear up to legendary and find a build that works for them.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Thecapeo wrote: »

Actually I've never seen an MMO that made old gear weaker with an expansion. Put out new, stronger gear with an expansion? Sure. But nerf old gear? That's a pure cash grab. And it's a kick in the teeth to console players that just got the game a few months ago and have worked to get their gear up to legendary and find a build that works for them.

This is so true . Anyone denying this is fanboying to hard.

No problem with bringing better sets in. But nerfing the old just so people want / are nearly forced to get the new ones to stay competetive? GG.

This.

This so much.

CMDR_FACE

I think that they are reducing the bonuses for item sets that have less research trait requirements. So an 8 trait item set is more powerful than a 4 trait item set.

Rune_Relic

I have no problem with them adding new DIFFERENT sets.
I do have a problem with them bringing in BETTER sets.
I do have a problem with them making existing sets WORSE.
But I am a horizontal progression kind of guy.
Some people love the grind and wasted resource and generally be OP compared to other people for as long as they can get away with it.
/shrugs

Fruity_Ninja

Pretty sure the +Max Health and +Weapon/Spellpower bonuses for ALL sets were lowered. This is for new sets and old ones, and I'm sure I read this amongst the PTS patch notes at one stage. The other bonuses weren't touched iirc.

I haven't analysed in depth yet as I've been tied up away from the game and can't do any PTS testing atm though, but it was expected.

ragespell

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I finally got to see how bad the nerfing has become for crafted sets now that IC is here. At first, without having all the information at my finger tips, I figured I could live with the changes. NOW, I see that this is really a very harsh nerf that is intended to Hide the best slot gear behind the paywall. The only reason to trash the older sets, was not for balance, but to make you pull out your wallet and buy the IC. I will not do that. I refuse to pay for a broken game with horrific lag, and after watching them nerf everything in this game, I cant say when ill decide to spend money with these folks again. The only thing I can do at this moment, Is find a stealth grind zone and keep my mouth shut. Ill just grind CP's until next update and see if this design team can figure out how bad their ideas really are.

Read it and Weep

Mmmm, not so good to pay, but good enough to play for free?
How much is your /played ?

Fizzlewizzle

Regen rates on set seem to be lowered as well.

Troneon

They nerfed healing, damage and spell damage, weapon damage...like smacked to the ground and smacked it down again nerf.

They obviously did not like people having god like heals and god like damage.

Now the game is more about sustaining longer fights and less about burst one shot class cannons. I actually like that to be honest although they did take it way too far with the damage reductions.

They need to nerf the pvp builds that allow everything all in one with no sacrifices epecially with champion points as well, the builds that allow crazy survivability, crazy resources that never run out, crazy damage, crazy CC, crazy heals, crazy speed, crazy stealth all wrapped up in an all in one build without having to sacrifice anything...

Those are the type of things they should be nerfing, the stupidly I can do everything and sacrifice nothing builds...

I agree with everything else said by most though, buff the new sets but don't nerf the old...they already had a huge heal and damage nerf especially in pvp, they did not need to also nerf crafted set bonuses to weapon and spell damage, that was over the top, even some of the best pvpers agree the damage reduction was too much but feedback was ignored.

Crafting got made pointless and less important as well which completely goes against what they said at launch, that crafting gear would always be better even if by a small amount....now they just completely ignored that and said screw you crafters. It's not worth the time effort or cost leveling crafting now. They might as well remove armor and weapon crafting from the game especially with the insane grinding costs of the new sets.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Problem is that in 3 months time when next DLC comes they introduce yet another new currency, nerf the IC sets and start again... One expects new gear to chase with expansions but if they have to nerf the old stuff and fundamentally change game mechanics to make it seem desirable then they have failed to design good gear....

This ^^

I am not even going to rush to get to VR16 or get maxed out sets all legendary, there is no point when the next DLC they will just nerf them all again and rinse repeat new sets...

MrBeatDown

ragespell wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I finally got to see how bad the nerfing has become for crafted sets now that IC is here. At first, without having all the information at my finger tips, I figured I could live with the changes. NOW, I see that this is really a very harsh nerf that is intended to Hide the best slot gear behind the paywall. The only reason to trash the older sets, was not for balance, but to make you pull out your wallet and buy the IC. I will not do that. I refuse to pay for a broken game with horrific lag, and after watching them nerf everything in this game, I cant say when ill decide to spend money with these folks again. The only thing I can do at this moment, Is find a stealth grind zone and keep my mouth shut. Ill just grind CP's until next update and see if this design team can figure out how bad their ideas really are.

Read it and Weep

Mmmm, not so good to pay, but good enough to play for free?
How much is your /played ?

Plenty, They should put me on payroll for all the testing I do on live for this game.