Tanking With The LT - Black Rose Boom or Bust?

Personofsecrets

Greetings everyone. There has been quite a bit of discussion about the stamina regeneration nerf and finding ways that tanks will still be able to continuously hold block despite that nerf. One of those ways has been to incorporate the Black Rose set into tank builds. I therefore put together a few images and thoughts for everyone to consider when deciding the right times to use the Black Rose set.

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We have 2 challengers. Which one will survive the competition and which one's blood will decorate the floor of our grand arena?



Lining these up let's us see how we can compare how both sets can function at returning stamina. Histbark has a 20% chance of dodging an attack and a dodged attack does not cost stamina to block. Black Rose has a 20% chance of gaining a player stamina.

How much stamina does Histbark save or "gain?" Well, it only ever saves as much stamina when the set does proc as the stamina that is used when the set does not proc. Since that means stamina "gained" from Histbark is only ever equal to the stamina that it costs to block, we can easily form an equation which shows that fact.

---

Stamina "Gained" = Cost to Block

Cost to Block = Raw Block Cost - (Raw Block Cost * Block Cost Mitigation)

or

Cost to Block = 2160 - 2160x

Stamina "Gained" = 2160 - 2160x

Let's briefly move on. How much stamina does the Black Rose set gain? Well, it gains a flat number of 817 stamina and doesn't depend on any other factors. Let us show the simple equation for this like we did before. In other words, Stamina Gained = 817.

So when does Histbark become better than Black Rose and vice versa? We can tell by finding the time that the stamina gained from both sets is equal to each other. Let's do some trivial math.

817 = 2160 - 2160x

-1343 = -2160*x

.62 = x

---

That means that when a player is using .62 worth of block cost mitigation that both sets give the player the same stamina. When block cost mitigation goes below that .62 number, then the stamina "gained" by Histbark is larger than stamina gained by Black Rose. When block cost mitigation goes above that .62 number, then the stamina gained by Black Rose is larger than the stamina "gained" by Histbark.

I went ahead and plotted some of the block cost mitigation values so that we can visualize this.



There is a decent size area, when considering all of the possible amounts of block cost mitigation that can be used, where Histbark is the better stamina "gainer" than Black Rose. There is also a large area, when considering all of the possible amounts of block cost mitigation that can be used, where the Black Rose set is the better stamina gainer than the Hist Bark set.

The analysis doesn't just end here. Clearly one has to invest into block cost reduction in order to get a better return from Black Rose over Histbark. That means that we should look at that investment. I therefore present the idea of block cost reduction diminishing returns.



As you see, the more block cost mitigation one uses, the more the returns of said mitigation are diminished. Even with what would be over 100% block cost mitigation, the lowest block cost I have ever been able to achieve is 431 out of 2160. That is a hard cap of 80% block cost mitigation.

If you look at champion point block cost mitigation, imaged below, then you will see that the value of block cost mitigation champion points not only diminishes with respect to the number of champion points required for an additional percent of effect, but also diminish with regard to their inherent reduction to block cost. In other words, there are diminished returns on top of diminished returns and these specific champion points are very inefficient at achieving their tool tip effect.



This is the same case for the effect of block cost reduction enchantments. That effect is imaged below with enchantments that have the "200," "400," and "600." These enchants give 8%-9% of effect at low levels of block cost mitigation, but at block cost mitigation values above 50%, these enchantments give returns in a soft-cap diminished style. That is, you are getting half of the effect for block cost mitigation enchantments. Look at what happens to the percent of bock cost mitigation, highlighted in green, when block cost reduction enchants are stacked.

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Here is the resulting ideas and questions from the above testing.

Idea: The Histbark set and Black rose set both have advantages over each other depending on the play style of the tank.

Idea: The play style that gives the best returns for the Black Rose set requires heavily investing into a stat that has large diminishing returns per investment.

Idea: There are more reasons than just stamina preservation that make the Histbark set good.

Question: What fights do you think each set will be more successful at than the other set?

Question: Is the Black Rose set a true panacea to the stamina regeneration nerf?

Question: If the Black Rose set is a panacea to the nerf and should be used, then does the addition of the Black Rose set justify the nerf against all of the other ways of tanking?

Question: Does it matter how tanks are shoehorned into using a stat with large diminishing returns in order to get the best effect from the Black Rose Set?

Question: Even if the Black Rose set can lead to better stamina returns than the Histbark set, does it matter that in order to use the Black Rose set one has to give up the 20% damage reduction from Histbark?

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With those last points I conclude my review of the Black Rose set. I hope that this post helps you tanks out there! Please do post your own ideas about the Black Rose set, the Histbark set, diminished returns of block cost mitigation, and the stamina regeneration nerf. I'm interested in what you have to say!

@Tabre @MaximusDargus @zomnomnombie @Nifty2g @ettenmoor @olemanwinter @Aluapfant

Special thank you to @Tabre for helping me test block cost values.

SkylarkAU

Excellent post

Wing

thanks for the hard work ^_^

is black rose a replacement for histbark?

nope, histbark not only by your calculation saves more or less the same stamina from blocking it also mitigates damage, and secondary effects. you could run evasion and black rose, but evasion costs a lot of stamina, a slot on your bar, and requires micro managing to keep it up. its still an option though so not ruling it out.

not only is histbarks final set bonus arguably better, but I would argue its set bonuses leading up to that point would be better as well. perhaps with the absolute GARBAGE gutting of stamina regen while blocking raw stamina will be more important, but regen still is a better stat for prolonged fights.

does black rose make up for the absolute GARBAGE gutting of stamina regen? of course not, and its both a smack in mouth and a mixed message. the first because they removed something vital then tried to present pitiful compensation in the form of an armor bonus (instead of I don't know a built in mechanic for everyone not at cap that tanks?) and the latter because if its such a "problem" and "not fun" then why try to allow it?

so inept and confusing. what a great design direction.

Personofsecrets

Wing wrote: »

thanks for the hard work ^_^

is black rose a replacement for histbark?

nope, histbark not only by your calculation saves more or less the same stamina from blocking it also mitigates damage, and secondary effects. you could run evasion and black rose, but evasion costs a lot of stamina, a slot on your bar, and requires micro managing to keep it up. its still an option though so not ruling it out.

not only is histbarks final set bonus arguably better, but I would argue its set bonuses leading up to that point would be better as well. perhaps with the absolute GARBAGE gutting of stamina regen while blocking raw stamina will be more important, but regen still is a better stat for prolonged fights.

does black rose make up for the absolute GARBAGE gutting of stamina regen? of course not, and its both a smack in mouth and a mixed message. the first because they removed something vital then tried to present pitiful compensation in the form of an armor bonus (instead of I don't know a built in mechanic for everyone not at cap that tanks?) and the latter because if its such a "problem" and "not fun" then why try to allow it?

so inept and confusing. what a great design direction.

That is an interesting point.

What should we think about the stamina regeneration nerf when the tank set introduced to counteract the nerf leads to the same play style that the nerf is meant to prevent?

DDuke

You forget to mention that there are other ways of getting the 5-set of Hist Bark (Major Evasion)

You can use Mirage as a Nightblade (likely a must have for a NB tank not just for the Major Evasion, but for the Minor Resolve & Minor Ward as well), or you can use Shuffle if you're not a NB.

So yes, you can get the best of both worlds: Major Evasion and Black Rose.

Also, the VR16 version of Black Rose which comes from the boxes has random traits, unlike the pieces bought directly from trader, which all come in Impenetrable.


That said, Black Rose is likely not going to bring back permablock. It simply "negates" the cost of 20% of your blocks (and brings a little bit of stamina back, depending on your block cost). It does nothing for the remaining 80%.
Maybe if you combine this with things like Helping Hands, you'll be able to block almost infinitely. Remains to be seen.

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

You forget to mention that there are other ways of getting the 5-set of Hist Bark (Major Evasion)

You can use Mirage as a Nightblade (likely a must have for a NB tank not just for the Major Evasion, but for the Minor Resolve & Minor Ward as well), or you can use Shuffle if you're not a NB.

So yes, you can get the best of both worlds: Major Evasion and Black Rose.

Also, the VR16 version of Black Rose which comes from the boxes has random traits, unlike the pieces bought directly from trader, which all come in Impenetrable.


That said, Black Rose is likely not going to bring back permablock. It simply "negates" the cost of 20% of your blocks (and brings a little bit of stamina back, depending on your block cost). It does nothing for the remaining 80%.
Maybe if you combine this with things like Helping Hands, you'll be able to block almost infinitely. Remains to be seen.

Actually, major evasion isn't necessarily a synergy with Black Rose.

Please link a random trait black rose.

Stalwart385

Excellent post. I've thought histbark was supior to black rose because it mitigates the damage and stamina. Its good to see numbers worked out. Black Rose may be viable but it also doesnt fit with sets like bloodspawn. Histback being customizable makes it a win in my book.

All this aside, I find it silly that stam regen is a worthless stats to tanks now. While DKs will be relying on reduced mana cost and mana regen to spam shields for stam.

Personofsecrets

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Excellent post. I've thought histbark was supior to black rose because it mitigates the damage and stamina. Its good to see numbers worked out. Black Rose may be viable but it also doesnt fit with sets like bloodspawn. Histback being customizable makes it a win in my book.

All this aside, I find it silly that stam regen is a worthless stats to tanks now. While DKs will be relying on reduced mana cost and mana regen to spam shields for stam.

Thanks for the post. I saw, I believe, on a thread about the Shalidor's Curse set a similar comment about regeneration based tanks no longer being as good.

An above commenter said that Black Rose does come in other traits then impenetrable, but I did not find them when searching the item codes. Is it possible? Yes, but I haven't seen one up to this point.

MrBeatDown

Hist bark is the better set here. You can make hist bark for any slot on your toon except jewelry. So that leaves you open to the Other build variations. I also would almost argue that the New Crafted Set Armor Master is also superior to Black Rose.

For PvP I will be running 5 piece hist bark, 5 piece Warlock, 2 piece V16 Engine Guardian, But I also run a Magic Dk Tank for PvP. Sustain is the only way to go now and it is absolutely imperative for survivability. I may also "Test" Armor Master for PvP in place of Hist Bark, But im not able to do that on Pts currently. I haven't Played to much Pts but from what I can gather, All I need to do is change up CP point distribution to fix my toon. I currently run on live 5 hist, 5 warlock, 2 engine guardian. Game is very simple.

Fissh

Great Post! Showing how much they either really don't understand their own game, or make bandaid changes for pvp problem purposes and call it "fun".
LT is the man.

Personofsecrets

Fissh wrote: »

Great Post! Showing how much they either really don't understand their own game, or make bandaid changes for pvp problem purposes and call it "fun".
LT is the man.

Thank you @Fissh

It really is a predicament. Another issue is the numbers of people that think tanking in ESO should be the way that tanking is in every other video game except for ESO.

Stalwart385

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Excellent post. I've thought histbark was supior to black rose because it mitigates the damage and stamina. Its good to see numbers worked out. Black Rose may be viable but it also doesnt fit with sets like bloodspawn. Histback being customizable makes it a win in my book.

All this aside, I find it silly that stam regen is a worthless stats to tanks now. While DKs will be relying on reduced mana cost and mana regen to spam shields for stam.

Thanks for the post. I saw, I believe, on a thread about the Shalidor's Curse set a similar comment about regeneration based tanks no longer being as good.

An above commenter said that Black Rose does come in other traits then impenetrable, but I did not find them when searching the item codes. Is it possible? Yes, but I haven't seen one up to this point.

I have some Black Rose peices with reinforcd and well-fitted. Its from the bag.

Personofsecrets

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Excellent post. I've thought histbark was supior to black rose because it mitigates the damage and stamina. Its good to see numbers worked out. Black Rose may be viable but it also doesnt fit with sets like bloodspawn. Histback being customizable makes it a win in my book.

All this aside, I find it silly that stam regen is a worthless stats to tanks now. While DKs will be relying on reduced mana cost and mana regen to spam shields for stam.

Thanks for the post. I saw, I believe, on a thread about the Shalidor's Curse set a similar comment about regeneration based tanks no longer being as good.

An above commenter said that Black Rose does come in other traits then impenetrable, but I did not find them when searching the item codes. Is it possible? Yes, but I haven't seen one up to this point.

I have some Black Rose peices with reinforcd and well-fitted. Its from the bag.

Thank you. I'll go ahead and update the thread.

Can you please link one of the item codes for those? You can do so my linking the item to your chat box, but before entering it into chat, copying the item and then pasting the resulting code.

Ezareth

Why would you want to mix sets that include dodge chance and a 20% proc chance when your char is *hit* (While holding block). That seems counter intuitive to me.

Personofsecrets

Ezareth wrote: »

Why would you want to mix sets that include dodge chance and a 20% proc chance when your char is *hit* (While holding block). That seems counter intuitive to me.

Yes, that plan is probably an inefficient way of preserving stamina.

Tankqull

Ezareth wrote: »

Why would you want to mix sets that include dodge chance and a 20% proc chance when your char is *hit* (While holding block). That seems counter intuitive to me.

well if you are hit you regain stamina if you evade you do not spend stamina so eitherway your stamina pool aint deplete as fast as without them.

Personofsecrets

Additionally, if you evade, then you lose a chance to gain stamina from a Black Rose proc.

Also the times when evasion is optimal at preserving stamina, as the original post points out, are opposite in requirements of the times that make Black Rose optimal.

Finally, the only way to have both evasion and Black rose is to run the Evasion skill. Even if it can save stamina, it also costs stamina to cast, takes up a skill slot, and must be refreshed every 20 seconds or so.

Maulkin

First off, hats off to the OP for a hugely informative post.

Not much into PvE, let alone tanking, but is Hist Bark even a decent set? I mean it has a 5-set bonus which you can get from a skill available to anyone Evasion/Shuffle.

I would have thought, especially in 1.6 where you could stack stam regen up the kazoo, that using Footman + any other tank set (like Whitestrake) would have been a better option. Since you have enough stamina to both perma-block and to keep up Evasion.

In my eyes Black Rose has de facto the better 5-set bonus of the two since it can't be replicated with skill choice. However I'm not sure it's the best tank set purely because it does not come with jewlry.

That basically means that if you chooose to wear it, it'll be the only 5-piece set you'll get to wear. Whereas if you had jewlry then I think it would replace Footman as the dropped set of choice and would be paired with an Undaunted Set (Engine or Bloodspawn) and a crafted set (Histbark or Whitestrake).

Like I said I'm not into tanking at all, but I think with the current choices available I would have gone for Footman + Whitestrake while getting my dodge chance from Evasion (or Mirage).

Fecius

Some Black Rose in action:

https://youtu.be/0ji22xBjEt4

Maulkin

Fecius wrote: »

Some Black Rose in action:

https://youtu.be/0ji22xBjEt4

Looks like with engine guardian, black rose and evasion you can tank almost forever. So much for the "woe is me, tanking is dead" reaction threads. And you didn't even have any templars for spears, or any allies in general to activate synergies and get resources that way.

It does look like you'll need a 3rd source of resources other than black rose, pots & engine guardian though. So DKs will most certainly be fine with Battle Roar. NBs will surely be fine too with some tweaks to Siphoning Attacks. Templars are a bit trickier with Repetance, you'll need adds to kill to keep going.

As for Sorcs... well... surely you can cast some dark deal while tanking 10 enemies, no? (sarcasm)

andy_s

Intresting post, but speaking of PVE at it's current state, none of these sets is really needed to complete old/new dungeons, if a group is good and tank dosn't need to survive all packs for 10 mins alone

I'm looking forward to experiment with NB in Black Rose with Siphoning Attacks & Blur on tho

asteldian

Histbark is a superior set in most cases over Black Rose. That said, I would use neither anyway as there are more interesting sets to use.
Without both sets the DK can block pretty much indefinitely anyway, Nightblade too has little issue. Sorc is a bit trickier as he would need to time his blocks between Dark Deals if he wants a perma block type. Templar has probably been hit hardest by the nerf and may consider either of the two sets useful for keeping stamina during fights.

Maulkin

asteldian wrote: »

Histbark is a superior set in most cases over Black Rose. That said, I would use neither anyway as there are more interesting sets to use.
Without both sets the DK can block pretty much indefinitely anyway, Nightblade too has little issue. Sorc is a bit trickier as he would need to time his blocks between Dark Deals if he wants a perma block type. Templar has probably been hit hardest by the nerf and may consider either of the two sets useful for keeping stamina during fights.

Templar might have been hit hard but it's still a superior option to Sorc.

If I was tanking Repentance would seem a far better option than Dark Deal which a) is not free but costs a resource, magicka and b) has a cast time that makes you drop block and become vulnerable to big hits and CC.

Not to mention that if you're a magic Templar tank you have emergency block-casted heals should you need them (Breath of Life). And skills like Restoring Aura that can also increase the healing you receive. And better group support skills (BoL heals others too, Repentance helps everyone, Spears can offer DPSers stamina etc)

None of the above are the case with sorc. I know which class I'd rather take tanking, it's not even a contest.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

> now play using NB blur AND black rose with block cost reduction at ~ 60%.

Cinbri

Tbh i think for PvP Reactive Armor is better than Black Rose, you literally can forget about waste stamina for break free.

asteldian

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

asteldian wrote: »

Histbark is a superior set in most cases over Black Rose. That said, I would use neither anyway as there are more interesting sets to use.
Without both sets the DK can block pretty much indefinitely anyway, Nightblade too has little issue. Sorc is a bit trickier as he would need to time his blocks between Dark Deals if he wants a perma block type. Templar has probably been hit hardest by the nerf and may consider either of the two sets useful for keeping stamina during fights.

Templar might have been hit hard but it's still a superior option to Sorc.

If I was tanking Repentance would seem a far better option than Dark Deal which a) is not free but costs a resource, magicka and b) has a cast time that makes you drop block and become vulnerable to big hits and CC.

Not to mention that if you're a magic Templar tank you have emergency block-casted heals should you need them (Breath of Life). And skills like Restoring Aura that can also increase the healing you receive. And better group support skills (BoL heals others too, Repentance helps everyone, Spears can offer DPSers stamina etc)

None of the above are the case with sorc. I know which class I'd rather take tanking, it's not even a contest.

Overall utility, yes Templar is my preferred option. But in terms of block potential, Sorc comes out ahead - timing a Dark Deal is less non block than waiting on a regen tick or attempting a heavy attack. Repentance is handy if you have dead mobs but otherwise no good.
I am not saying that it is enough to say Sorc is a better tank, just that it has more potential in terms of returning stamina during a fight...there are still the same overall weaknesses. Templar and sorc are definitely behind the curve

Maulkin

Cinbri wrote: »

Tbh i think for PvP Reactive Armor is better than Black Rose, you literally can forget about waste stamina for break free.

Depends how many people are beating on you, with what and for how long. If you have been Feared and you have 3-4 stamblades beating on you with their 100% armor penetrating dual maces, then you absolutely want to break free before the 4" are up.

If it's a 1.5" stun from Biting Jabs or Streak and there's only 1 opponent then ofc you wouldn't care at all about CC breaking. Just wait for the free immunity.

AhPook_Is_Here

And the obvious, impen; who wants to lose 16% of the physical resistance across 5p of gear? Doesn't mean much in PVP but as far as PVE tank sets go stacking physical resistance is far more useful than reduction in crits from NPCs that can't crit.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Great post OP and great discussion in this thread.

As an Argonian NB tank, I'm waiting to see how they tweak Siphoning Attacks before I settle on set choices. I also am able to use Mirage instead of Histbark set, because it (a) costs magicka, (b) provides minor armor (and now minor spell resist) buff, and (c) since its dodge chance while not blocking can be very important (eg when kiting or rezzing).

I currently run 5pc Footman, 5pc Shalidor, and 2pc Malubeth, which has been really great for 4-man group content (often PUGs). Stacking healing received and various forms of emergency heals from set bonuses has been a nice workaround to NBs lack of burst healing (and the vagaries of random groups!). Given the huge nerf to Shalidor's Curse, I am drawn to the new Leeching set, which appears to not have a cooldown and be able to stack on multiple enemies at the same time for some big healing (especially if Malubeth procs, which boosts healing received by 30%). Combined with either Malubeth, Engine Guardian, or Blood Spawn sets, and Footman's set, the Leeaching set seems to have a lot of potential in PvP and general PvE (I'd probably change it to something crafted for Trials though).

gimpdrb14_ESO

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Greetings everyone. There has been quite a bit of discussion about the stamina regeneration nerf and finding ways that tanks will still be able to continuously hold block despite that nerf. One of those ways has been to incorporate the Black Rose set into tank builds. I therefore put together a few images and thoughts for everyone to consider when deciding the right times to use the Black Rose set.

---

We have 2 challengers. Which one will survive the competition and which one's blood will decorate the floor of our grand arena?



Lining these up let's us see how we can compare how both sets can function at returning stamina. Histbark has a 20% chance of dodging an attack and a dodged attack does not cost stamina to block. Black Rose has a 20% chance of gaining a player stamina.

How much stamina does Histbark save or "gain?" Well, it only ever saves as much stamina when the set does proc as the stamina that is used when the set does not proc. Since that means stamina "gained" from Histbark is only ever equal to the stamina that it costs to block, we can easily form an equation which shows that fact.

---

Stamina "Gained" = Cost to Block

Cost to Block = Raw Block Cost - (Raw Block Cost * Block Cost Mitigation)

or

Cost to Block = 2160 - 2160x

Stamina "Gained" = 2160 - 2160x

Let's briefly move on. How much stamina does the Black Rose set gain? Well, it gains a flat number of 817 stamina and doesn't depend on any other factors. Let us show the simple equation for this like we did before. In other words, Stamina Gained = 817.

So when does Histbark become better than Black Rose and vice versa? We can tell by finding the time that the stamina gained from both sets is equal to each other. Let's do some trivial math.

817 = 2160 - 2160x

-1343 = -2160*x

.62 = x

---

That means that when a player is using .62 worth of block cost mitigation that both sets give the player the same stamina. When block cost mitigation goes below that .62 number, then the stamina "gained" by Histbark is larger than stamina gained by Black Rose. When block cost mitigation goes above that .62 number, then the stamina gained by Black Rose is larger than the stamina "gained" by Histbark.

I went ahead and plotted some of the block cost mitigation values so that we can visualize this.



There is a decent size area, when considering all of the possible amounts of block cost mitigation that can be used, where Histbark is the better stamina "gainer" than Black Rose. There is also a large area, when considering all of the possible amounts of block cost mitigation that can be used, where the Black Rose set is the better stamina gainer than the Hist Bark set.

The analysis doesn't just end here. Clearly one has to invest into block cost reduction in order to get a better return from Black Rose over Histbark. That means that we should look at that investment. I therefore present the idea of block cost reduction diminishing returns.



As you see, the more block cost mitigation one uses, the more the returns of said mitigation are diminished. Even with what would be over 100% block cost mitigation, the lowest block cost I have ever been able to achieve is 431 out of 2160. That is a hard cap of 80% block cost mitigation.

If you look at champion point block cost mitigation, imaged below, then you will see that the value of block cost mitigation champion points not only diminishes with respect to the number of champion points required for an additional percent of effect, but also diminish with regard to their inherent reduction to block cost. In other words, there are diminished returns on top of diminished returns and these specific champion points are very inefficient at achieving their tool tip effect.



This is the same case for the effect of block cost reduction enchantments. That effect is imaged below with enchantments that have the "200," "400," and "600." These enchants give 8%-9% of effect at low levels of block cost mitigation, but at block cost mitigation values above 50%, these enchantments give returns in a soft-cap diminished style. That is, you are getting half of the effect for block cost mitigation enchantments. Look at what happens to the percent of bock cost mitigation, highlighted in green, when block cost reduction enchants are stacked.

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Here is the resulting ideas and questions from the above testing.

Idea: The Histbark set and Black rose set both have advantages over each other depending on the play style of the tank.

Idea: The play style that gives the best returns for the Black Rose set requires heavily investing into a stat that has large diminishing returns per investment.

Idea: There are more reasons than just stamina preservation that make the Histbark set good.

Question: What fights do you think each set will be more successful at than the other set?

Question: Is the Black Rose set a true panacea to the stamina regeneration nerf?

Question: If the Black Rose set is a panacea to the nerf and should be used, then does the addition of the Black Rose set justify the nerf against all of the other ways of tanking?

Question: Does it matter how tanks are shoehorned into using a stat with large diminishing returns in order to get the best effect from the Black Rose Set?

Question: Even if the Black Rose set can lead to better stamina returns than the Histbark set, does it matter that in order to use the Black Rose set one has to give up the 20% damage reduction from Histbark?

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With those last points I conclude my review of the Black Rose set. I hope that this post helps you tanks out there! Please do post your own ideas about the Black Rose set, the Histbark set, diminished returns of block cost mitigation, and the stamina regeneration nerf. I'm interested in what you have to say!

@Tabre @MaximusDargus @zomnomnombie @Nifty2g @ettenmoor @olemanwinter @Aluapfant

K

Stalwart385

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

First off, hats off to the OP for a hugely informative post.

Not much into PvE, let alone tanking, but is Hist Bark even a decent set? I mean it has a 5-set bonus which you can get from a skill available to anyone Evasion/Shuffle.

I would have thought, especially in 1.6 where you could stack stam regen up the kazoo, that using Footman + any other tank set (like Whitestrake) would have been a better option. Since you have enough stamina to both perma-block and to keep up Evasion.

In my eyes Black Rose has de facto the better 5-set bonus of the two since it can't be replicated with skill choice. However I'm not sure it's the best tank set purely because it does not come with jewlry.

That basically means that if you chooose to wear it, it'll be the only 5-piece set you'll get to wear. Whereas if you had jewlry then I think it would replace Footman as the dropped set of choice and would be paired with an Undaunted Set (Engine or Bloodspawn) and a crafted set (Histbark or Whitestrake).

Like I said I'm not into tanking at all, but I think with the current choices available I would have gone for Footman + Whitestrake while getting my dodge chance from Evasion (or Mirage).

Evasion costs stamina to upkeep. You dont want to run that when you are trying to preserve stamina. Whitestrike is a bad PvE set, if you have a halfway decent healer it will rarely proc.