So I Guess The Only Way For DC on Haderus To Win Is To Cheat

MAOofDC

So Today 8/2/15 at about 8pm EDT AD was retaking Alessia back from DC. Some guy who wasn't in any of the AD groups rushed in and grabbed the scroll just before it was flipped and proceeded to run it towards the blues. We followed asking him in zone chat and tells what the hell he was doing. He didn't respond to us, and the blues didn't attack him but did everything they could to slow us down. When he was finally too far away from us to pick it back up he stopped and they killed him and got the scroll. Only after I told him that I reported him did he respond by calling me names and admitted that indeed he was a DC player running an alt with the express purpose of helping DC recapture the scroll. He even bragged about being the best DC player on the NA server. One has to wonder how good someone really is if they need to cheat to achieve their goals. He then proceeded to tell me that it happens all the time and there wasn't a damn thing we could do about it but only after he heaped some more abusive language on me.

People who do this *** need to be banned!!! Griefing is not allowed according to the rule laid out by ZoS. But since ZoS couldn't be damned according to him he will escape punishment. But I'm sure is I named and shamed him on the forums my ass would feel the ban hammer double quick.

Zheg

Happens to all alliances, and has been happening since launch. You reported him, and that's all you can do, so move on and go back to the normal pvp mode of avoiding the lag.

InvictoNZ

The funny thing is, exploiters are allowed to taunt you. But you are not allowed to name or shame them.

And like he said, Zo$ does not do anything about exploiters.

Dekkameron

Maybe have "counter-insurgents" that are allied players of another faction that you can call in to kill some miscreant doing such a thing then do the exact same thing hehe.

Akinos

Although it's not cheating per say, it's a really dirty underhanded tactic though that people can get away with unfortunately.

Nothing in this game, nor anything that ZOS says or doesn't say, does or doesn't do, surprises me anymore at this stage in the game.

imredneckson

InvictoNZ wrote: »

The funny thing is, exploiters are allowed to taunt you. But you are not allowed to name or shame them.

And like he said, Zo$ does not do anything about exploiters.

If ZOS is not protecting their cliental from cheater, hackers, exploiters, etc. then they aren't doing their job. Because I don't like the service I'm getting from ZOS about lag, exploiters, and more I'm canceling my subscription hopefully if enough of players do the same ZOS will have to start listening to what we have to say and start fixing problems.

Kerioko

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself. I do think it is very poor sportsmanship, but unfortunately, unless they lock accounts to only one faction, things like this will continue.

It has gotten to a point, our pvp groups have quit allowing low level pugs to join us for fear they may be spies for the other faction. I find it odd when a level 20 pug joins your group, then the other faction starts to know exactly where and when you will attack something before you even start laying siege.

tordr86b16_ESO

One character per Campaign on your account would solve it, but it doesn't stop people from buying a second account.

CitraBenzoet_ESO

The best part was all us DC were really confused why the scroll was coming to us via some banana.

Honestly this stuff happends every so often. Sometimes just cause people get bored or it is a enemy behind the lines kinda thing. This kind of play no matter how annoying should not be considered cheating. It makes things interesting.

Vis

Kerioko wrote: »

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself.

It's been well established that using alts to hurt an enemy alliance falls under "griefing" which is against the TOS.

CitraBenzoet_ESO

Vis wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself.

It's been well established that using alts to hurt an enemy alliance falls under "griefing" which is against the TOS.

Citation needed.

SirAndy

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

It makes things interesting.

Really now? I was there on the AD side of things and from my point of view, there was absolutely nothing "interesting" about the whole thing.

He purposely ran the scroll into a huge zerg of DC players that was (very conveniently) waiting for him at the farm. Quelle coïncidence!

SirAndy

MAOofDC wrote: »

He even bragged about being the best DC player on the NA server.

CitraBenzoet_ESO

Yeah. Like the time DC brought AD a scroll as a kind gesture and also so EP would maybe not focus us all night. Which then turned into EP and AD dbl teaming us super hard and us losing everything. So yeah, interesting.

Dont worry AD. Your scrolls will be home soon enough when you Pvdoor haderus after NA is asleep. Which is fine. We want you to take stuff back so tomorrow night we have something to do.

Vis

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself.

It's been well established that using alts to hurt an enemy alliance falls under "griefing" which is against the TOS.

Citation needed.

Google: griefing

In almost every extended definition, purposefully sabotaging your own team is given as an example of griefing.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/griefing
Look under: "types of griefing"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Look under: "methods"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefing
Look under the first definition

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/griefer
See first definition

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Griefing
See: "Acts that are always considered griefing'

Hope all of these citations help. Also, see griefing in the ESO forum search where devs have commented on similar self-team sabotaging (I.e.the old dragon chain) as forms of griefing.

CitraBenzoet_ESO

Vis wrote: »

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself.

It's been well established that using alts to hurt an enemy alliance falls under "griefing" which is against the TOS.

Citation needed.

Google: griefing

In almost every extended definition, purposefully sabotaging your own team is given as an example of griefing.

No i mean show me where ZoS said getting on an alt to act as a spy to steal info or scrolls is against the tos.

Vis

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself.

It's been well established that using alts to hurt an enemy alliance falls under "griefing" which is against the TOS.

Citation needed.

Google: griefing

In almost every extended definition, purposefully sabotaging your own team is given as an example of griefing.

No i mean show me where ZoS said getting on an alt to act as a spy to steal info or scrolls is against the tos.

Already edited my prior response with more detailed citations. If you do not want to accept the entire Internet's definition of a word, that's on you mate.

But just in case you do not know how to use the search function, here is one of many examples where a moderator instructed players to report those they believed were "griefing" (in this case sabotaging the completion of a quest for their teammates):

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We are aware that some players are having difficulty completing the quest "The Prisoner of Jathsogur." As a temporary workaround, players must allow the enemies that appear upstairs to travel downstairs before they are attacked to complete the quest.

We are currently investigating this matter and hope to have an update as soon as possible.

If you feel someone is griefing you can report them, but bear in mind they may not realize they're causing a problem. Players may run upstairs because no one is coming down, and then inadvertently contribute to the problem.

Between the definitions given in my earlier post (and the many other mod examples you can find on your own) you can clearly see victims of the DC griefer have a recourse.

Ancile

Vis wrote: »

Between the definitions given in my earlier post (and the many other mod examples you can find on your own) you can clearly see victims of the DC griefer have a recourse.

Very well put together @Vis, thank you. I am really embrassed anyone from my own alliance would participate in cheating that is so detrimental to the game.

If anyone PMs me his name, I'll be sure to add him to our guild's blacklist for all pve and pvp activities.

Minnesinger

MAOofDC wrote: »

So Today 8/2/15 at about 8pm EDT AD was retaking Alessia back from DC. Some guy who wasn't in any of the AD groups rushed in and grabbed the scroll just before it was flipped and proceeded to run it towards the blues. We followed asking him in zone chat and tells what the hell he was doing. He didn't respond to us, and the blues didn't attack him but did everything they could to slow us down. When he was finally too far away from us to pick it back up he stopped and they killed him and got the scroll. Only after I told him that I reported him did he respond by calling me names and admitted that indeed he was a DC player running an alt with the express purpose of helping DC recapture the scroll. He even bragged about being the best DC player on the NA server. One has to wonder how good someone really is if they need to cheat to achieve their goals. He then proceeded to tell me that it happens all the time and there wasn't a damn thing we could do about it but only after he heaped some more abusive language on me.

People who do this *** need to be banned!!! Griefing is not allowed according to the rule laid out by ZoS. But since ZoS couldn't be damned according to him he will escape punishment. But I'm sure is I named and shamed him on the forums my ass would feel the ban hammer double quick.

DjCoin? That kinda behaviour should not be tolerated nor this stunt never done. Gives bad name to all DC. I am just wondering who is the best DC player? Self admitted title or did really one of the good players of DC make it....

Ov3rkiIL

Its a never ending war, its not the end result you should be looking at. Just enjoy the fight.

Nermy

Aye, I wouldn't worry about it. It's war. You have spies and undercover agents in war and we have them here. It's annoying but it happens and you should just pick up your weapon and get back in the fight... after putting the wee shite on ignore ofc...

MAOofDC

Ancile wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Between the definitions given in my earlier post (and the many other mod examples you can find on your own) you can clearly see victims of the DC griefer have a recourse.

Very well put together @Vis, thank you. I am really embrassed anyone from my own alliance would participate in cheating that is so detrimental to the game.

If anyone PMs me his name, I'll be sure to add him to our guild's blacklist for all pve and pvp activities.

I would love to but since I only have his AD toon's name I'm not sure how much good it would do you.

Rust_in_Peace

Vis wrote: »

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself.

It's been well established that using alts to hurt an enemy alliance falls under "griefing" which is against the TOS.

Citation needed.

Google: griefing

In almost every extended definition, purposefully sabotaging your own team is given as an example of griefing.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/griefing
Look under: "types of griefing"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Look under: "methods"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefing
Look under the first definition

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/griefer
See first definition

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Griefing
See: "Acts that are always considered griefing'

Hope all of these citations help. Also, see griefing in the ESO forum search where devs have commented on similar self-team sabotaging (I.e.the old dragon chain) as forms of griefing.

I like how none of your "citations" include the ESO terms of service.

MAOofDC

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself.

It's been well established that using alts to hurt an enemy alliance falls under "griefing" which is against the TOS.

Citation needed.

Google: griefing

In almost every extended definition, purposefully sabotaging your own team is given as an example of griefing.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/griefing
Look under: "types of griefing"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Look under: "methods"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefing
Look under the first definition

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/griefer
See first definition

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Griefing
See: "Acts that are always considered griefing'

Hope all of these citations help. Also, see griefing in the ESO forum search where devs have commented on similar self-team sabotaging (I.e.the old dragon chain) as forms of griefing.

I like how none of your "citations" include the ESO terms of service.

Here is a link to the ToS.

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service?_ga=1.114196231.1078160892.1430666346&q=4162e423-8715-40ca-b9fe-d1bb8da924cb&p=5519f689-9593-4587-8936-7895cb93c31e&ts=1438605823&c=zenimaxonline&e=live&rt=Safetynet&h=b8aebc08143232b6e898e22272263ebf#_EN_Toc_08

Under section 8 rules of conduct one of the rules reads as follows.

Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [i.e., all text in capitals] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [i.e., posting repetitive text], commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements, posting advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities;

That bit of legalese covers greifing along with a host of other behaviors, and if that particular bit doesn't the "but not limited to" part does. Since greifing is a disruptive behavior.

Weberda

Sorry but this issue is not going anywhere. The tactic has been used on rare occasions going way back into last year. It's just not considered a technical violation of the TOS by ZOS since the perpetrators have never suffered any penalty for it. Rather funny that the two times I saw it happen were both on Haderus and DC was the offending faction. It was planned and intentional by the DC group.

MAOofDC

Weberda wrote: »

Sorry but this issue is not going anywhere. The tactic has been used on rare occasions going way back into last year. It's just not considered a technical violation of the TOS by ZOS since the perpetrators have never suffered any penalty for it. Rather funny that the two times I saw it happen were both on Haderus and DC was the offending faction. It was planned and intentional by the DC group.

Just because a law isn't enforced dosn't mean it's not still a violation. For example most U.S.Federal State and Local Institutions are in violation of the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 it is not enforced dosn't mean the law isn't broken. Another example although not really spoken about by law enforcement if you are driving down the highway and the speed limit is 55 MPH they don't REALLY start to enforce that law until you pass 64 MPH. Mostly because fines don't start getting levied until someone exceeds 10 MPH over the limit. My point being just because something isn't enforced correctly doesn't make it permissible.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]

Vis

Not to mention you do not know if it has not been enforced. They could have enforced it without your knowing. Unless you are admitting having perpetrated this kind of action before.

Vis

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

This isn't cheating, exploiting, or hacking in anyway, as there is nothing in the terms of service that says you can'y play alts on other factions and make an ass of yourself.

It's been well established that using alts to hurt an enemy alliance falls under "griefing" which is against the TOS.

Citation needed.

Google: griefing

In almost every extended definition, purposefully sabotaging your own team is given as an example of griefing.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/griefing
Look under: "types of griefing"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Look under: "methods"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefing
Look under the first definition

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/griefer
See first definition

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Griefing
See: "Acts that are always considered griefing'

Hope all of these citations help. Also, see griefing in the ESO forum search where devs have commented on similar self-team sabotaging (I.e.the old dragon chain) as forms of griefing.

I like how none of your "citations" include the ESO terms of service.

Whoops, you spoke before reading on to the next comment where I demonstrated moderators encourage reports against those who participate in "griefing." No worries, happens to the best of us.

yodased

This is moot.The only way that they could do this after 2.1 goes live is to spend 300k AP and switch two characters around.

They will not be able to port to a player in cyrodil and have characters from different alliances in the same campaign again. Never again I say , never again.

Weberda

Vis wrote: »

Not to mention you do not know if it has not been enforced. They could have enforced it without your knowing. Unless you are admitting having perpetrated this kind of action before.

No, I wouldn't have had anything to do with something like that. I consider it a cheeseball tactic and it really made us all mad as hell. We reported the offending parties but they did it to us again several days later and I never heard any one mention that they suffered any kind of penalty.

The problem with being an "internet lawyer" here is that you're making a comparison between a on-line game and real life. I found out a long time ago that there's no real correlation between the two.

Laggus

All talk of laws and ToS aside its a really crappy thing to do, for shame.