Imperial City on PTS: What Tools Do We Need to Test?

HeroOfNone

For those not going to PTS, what would you like tested
Streamers on the PTS for Imperial City

Imperial City will be coming to PTS soon, so let's start asking for what tools we need to test with now.

Imperial City is going to have a lot of changes to builds, new dungeons, and new challenges which will require a lot of testing. Given our experience from the 1.6 and issues since then, there has to be a bit more than a few presets, gear coffers, and several thousand gold that can't really be spent on much. Think about what you want to test, but what might be difficult to do with the current setup and the short time frame

Also we're already working on a List of streamers that will be testing Imperial City on PTS, check it out if you don't plan to test but still are curious.


My List

Vendors or research for all trait locked gear for new presets. Being a master crafter doesn't help with waiting a month + to get arena set or something else.
Nirnhoned gear or materials most of us won't be able to farm, and if you want to see if this patch balances it, we'll need the mats.
A vendor for various gear sets if gear sets are being changed then we should have a way to easily access it. If needed you may also want to include some of the current over used sets for major dps builds, like martial knowledge, Valkyn Skoria, etc.
Champion Point tiers we should test champion points, but it shouldn't be a full 3600 to start out, 500, 1000, 1500, etc. Should be given for a few days to make things seem like they are progressing.
fully skill leveled templates just like last time, also remember to level the vampire & werewolf lines.
days to test out the new gear bought with tel Var stones while we should try to earn the gear, there should still be days to get the tel Var gear cheap so we can check if there is an absurd imbalance.

Sallington

The only thing I want to see is server performance in large fights.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Thanks @HeroOfNone! We'll also be publishing a list of suggestions and specific feedback that our developers are looking for when the Imperial City update hits the PTS.

Fetaro

Don't forget to test old content again.

It is VERY important.

Some people will have to go through the 3 factions up to VR10.

I'm ready to create an Ebonheart character (but I'll only do the quests, since I won't have enough time to test the rest 'till the 31st). Who will be testing the rest ?

Attorneyatlawl

Just to mention, the PTS currently has NA character copies from around a month ago. I have, and imagine many do, a good fleet of set gear and such that I've tested with between then and now on various characters both real and template. Unless they wipe those when the Imperial City PTS hits, a lot of people will be able to check all of it out.

I'd eventually love to see them put in a basic test vendor as I've seen in some past games that will sell you everything and anything for a gold each over on PTS, including respec scrolls, the best crafted potions, glyphs, every dropped or otherwise looted item set in the game, crafting materials, full research, etc.

Enodoc

A couple of things that I would like to request for PTS templates:

• A fully-levelled horse (or enough Crowns to buy all the Riding Lessons, or no cooldown on the Stablemaster training) so you can get to places quickly
• More readily-accessible Wayshrines - including at least the capital city of each zone (getting to Elden Root was a pain in the 1.6 PTS, with a slow horse to boot)
• A Level 10 template, to test PvP battle-levelling

Snit

A character copy will handle most of the above concerns. We already have leveled horses, nirn gear, Alliance Points, etc. More important, we know how our current characters play, so we have a good baseline for comparison.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

We are planning on doing a character copy based on current live characters, when the Imperial City DLC game pack and patch hit the PTS. We'll do a copy of North American megaserver characters first, then European megaserver characters about halfway through testing. We have passed along your requests to the team setting up templates (some are doable, some aren't, but we'll do everything we can!)

HeroOfNone

Snit wrote: »

A character copy will handle most of the above concerns. We already have leveled horses, nirn gear, Alliance Points, etc. More important, we know how our current characters play, so we have a good baseline for comparison.

Some do, not all do, and there was concern someone may test something and report it back to keep an advantage. Giving a wider audience would help with this. Imagine if there was enough nirnhoned out there last PTS round to show how OP it was.

additional item
Alliance rank 5 to 10 to test out skills Alliance rank is one of the longest things to grind and things like vigor + roll dodge have become something of a requirement in PVP.

Enodoc

Snit wrote: »

A character copy will handle most of the above concerns. We already have leveled horses, nirn gear, Alliance Points, etc. More important, we know how our current characters play, so we have a good baseline for comparison.

That's great and all, but no use for the players whose characters aren't copied, or for those players who actually want to use the templates.

Merlin13KAGL

I'm half hopeful the IC access restrictions will not be in place, or there will at least be a temporary 'cease fire' in regard to keeps so the IC can be properly tested without the normal keep defense.

The no-other-alliance-alt in the same campaign restriction should be waived, too, so we can test it from all three side without hunting for other characters.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I'd eventually love to see them put in a basic test vendor as I've seen in some past games that will sell you everything and anything for a gold each over on PTS, including respec scrolls, the best crafted potions, glyphs, every dropped or otherwise looted item set in the game, crafting materials, full research, etc.

That would be sheer genius, poetic even.

Make it a true test environment allowing one to do and undo changes without complete resets or character wipes. This would go a long way towards testing more efficiently.

HeroOfNone

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Just to mention, the PTS currently has NA character copies from around a month ago. I have, and imagine many do, a good fleet of set gear and such that I've tested with between then and now on various characters both real and template. Unless they wipe those when the Imperial City PTS hits, a lot of people will be able to check all of it out.

I'd eventually love to see them put in a basic test vendor as I've seen in some past games that will sell you everything and anything for a gold each over on PTS, including respec scrolls, the best crafted potions, glyphs, every dropped or otherwise looted item set in the game, crafting materials, full research, etc.

I'd like somethings, my concern is with offering too much, folks won't test things as a lower level and will automatically go to an endgame build

Epona222

I couldn't test fully last time, because I have characters on both servers, but Vet Rank characters ONLY on the NA server. My characters on the PTS kept getting switched out. I know I could create a template, but I am used to playing just a few characters and would have preferred it if my higher level ones had stayed on the PTS for the duration. I expect this would be too much faff to implement however!

Rinmaethodain

What to test? End game PVE content to test incoming "0 stamina regen while blocking" nerf

Also, correct me if im wrong, but last template character for 1.6PTS was it daggerfal convenant only? If yes then this PTS we need templates for all 3 factions because if everyone will pick the template and it will be in only one faction then it will be not possible to test how good/bad is the planned way of obtaining IC access (because one faction will be always overpopulated).

Rinmaethodain

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm half hopeful the IC access restrictions will not be in place, or there will at least be a temporary 'cease fire' in regard to keeps so the IC can be properly tested without the normal keep defense.

The no-other-alliance-alt in the same campaign restriction should be waived, too, so we can test it from all three side without hunting for other characters.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I'd eventually love to see them put in a basic test vendor as I've seen in some past games that will sell you everything and anything for a gold each over on PTS, including respec scrolls, the best crafted potions, glyphs, every dropped or otherwise looted item set in the game, crafting materials, full research, etc.

That would be sheer genius, poetic even.

Make it a true test environment allowing one to do and undo changes without complete resets or character wipes. This would go a long way towards testing more efficiently.

That would completly miss the point of PTS. We are there to test, in example how good or bad is current plan regarding allowing players to access IC

RedTalon

Think of yourself has a hammer and try to break everything by using all there is to offer, and reporting if something breaks, or is broken already.

Attorneyatlawl

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

A character copy will handle most of the above concerns. We already have leveled horses, nirn gear, Alliance Points, etc. More important, we know how our current characters play, so we have a good baseline for comparison.

Some do, not all do, and there was concern someone may test something and report it back to keep an advantage. Giving a wider audience would help with this. Imagine if there was enough nirnhoned out there last PTS round to show how OP it was.

additional item
Alliance rank 5 to 10 to test out skills Alliance rank is one of the longest things to grind and things like vigor + roll dodge have become something of a requirement in PVP.

It's not that long a grind if you're an active PVP'er. And in any case, nirn wasn't OP. Reinforced was just underpowered . They could have pretty much accomplished the same change as the new battle spirit by not nerfing nirn much (20% but having it be all spell resistance as it is on live now) and then making reinforced work the same way with a percentage bump to 24% (to compensate as caster builds typically wear light armor with 1 or 2 heavy and/or medium mixed in, and it has 1/4th the base rating as heavy does (medium has 3/4th the base of heavy)), then just changed battle spirit to a 30% heal debuff with shields left as they are now.

Two ways to the same goal, utlimately. Changing battle spirit to the 50% debuff as they are now essentially is a more global way of what buffing reinforced up would have done mechanics-wise. By doing it globally, there's no longer a need for nirn to be a balancing mechanic (physical users had a joyride of a patch cycle, though, once they realized Nirnhoned was good, even though it had been the same mechanic for a very long time just at a slightly lower percentage that still was powerful), and it is a better long-term solution. There are and weren't any equivalent ways to mitigate physical damage that weren't available to use against spell damage in the same ways (block, dodge, etc.).

Magicka still will be notably behind unless item sets are balanced out, though, and there still remains the gap in damage shields available as Harness Magicka/Dampen Magic are extremely powerful against casters (including by other casters), while there's zero equivalent long duration damage shield against physical attacks for us to use in those builds.

The gear gap is an even bigger issue, though, but I'm hopeful that will be addressed in the next patch (any hints you can drop on that, @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ? ). There are an incredible number of great physical/weapon power set bonuses from 2-5 pieces available that slot together well in combinations, while there are very few decent spell power ones, and nothing comparable at all to the powerhouses like Hawk Eye, Morag Tong, Ravaging, or Shadow Walker.

MissBizz

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm half hopeful the IC access restrictions will not be in place, or there will at least be a temporary 'cease fire' in regard to keeps so the IC can be properly tested without the normal keep defense.

The no-other-alliance-alt in the same campaign restriction should be waived, too, so we can test it from all three side without hunting for other characters.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I'd eventually love to see them put in a basic test vendor as I've seen in some past games that will sell you everything and anything for a gold each over on PTS, including respec scrolls, the best crafted potions, glyphs, every dropped or otherwise looted item set in the game, crafting materials, full research, etc.

That would be sheer genius, poetic even.

Make it a true test environment allowing one to do and undo changes without complete resets or character wipes. This would go a long way towards testing more efficiently.

That would completly miss the point of PTS. We are there to test, in example how good or bad is current plan regarding allowing players to access IC

@Merlin13KAGL AND @MaximusDargus They are testing what ways to give access (which keeps etc.) which also includes testing everyone has access all the time.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024746/#Comment_2024746

Rinmaethodain

Im not sure how populated was last PTS when 1.6 was about to go live but wont splitting cyriodiil into 4 camps will make it that there will be barely anyone in each camp or everyone will just crowd in one and stay there?

If this happens then there is risk only one scenario will be properly tested with 'real' competition to gain access while rest of cases will remain untested or results will be false due to low population of campaign?

Maybe better idea would be to have only one campaign where rules regarding access would change periodically

Enodoc

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Im not sure how populated was last PTS when 1.6 was about to go live but wont splitting cyriodiil into 4 camps will make it that there will be barely anyone in each camp or everyone will just crowd in one and stay there?

If this happens then there is risk only one scenario will be properly tested with 'real' competition to gain access while rest of cases will remain untested or results will be false due to low population of campaign?

Maybe better idea would be to have only one campaign where rules regarding access would change periodically

I expect it'll be that, where there will be one, maybe two, campaigns, testing the same access rules for consistency, and then they will change the access rules together at the next PTS patch.

Xendyn

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Im not sure how populated was last PTS when 1.6 was about to go live but wont splitting cyriodiil into 4 camps will make it that there will be barely anyone in each camp or everyone will just crowd in one and stay there?

If this happens then there is risk only one scenario will be properly tested with 'real' competition to gain access while rest of cases will remain untested or results will be false due to low population of campaign?

Maybe better idea would be to have only one campaign where rules regarding access would change periodically

I actually like that idea. We'll need as many players on one campaign as possible to test not only IC, but the LOS changes that will (hopefully) decrease lag.

Preyfar

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We are planning on doing a character copy based on current live characters, when the Imperial City DLC game pack and patch hit the PTS. We'll do a copy of North American megaserver characters first, then European megaserver characters about halfway through testing. We have passed along your requests to the team setting up templates (some are doable, some aren't, but we'll do everything we can!)

Jessica,

Rather than templates, I think the easiest thing to do would be to add vendors to certain areas which sell containers. In those containers are resources, end game gear, money, etc. Set the prices at 0 gold, 1 gold, whatever's needed. This will make it easier for players to test, help inventory control a bit and let players better custom tune what they need.

I imagine if we can program XP scrolls that, for test purposes, a scroll of "instant godification" can be made. Gives, say, 100,000,000 mil XP. The venders can just be disabled before going live, and will make the need fro templates a bit more outmoded.

RazzPitazz

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We are planning on doing a character copy based on current live characters, when the Imperial City DLC game pack and patch hit the PTS. We'll do a copy of North American megaserver characters first, then European megaserver characters about halfway through testing. We have passed along your requests to the team setting up templates (some are doable, some aren't, but we'll do everything we can!)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom, Will the city itself be released in phases on the PTS(ie; sewers, pvp sewers 2days later, city released 4 days later etc)? This would seem to be the best way to debug most of the content in such a short window.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

RazzPitazz wrote: »

Will the city itself be released in phases on the PTS(ie; sewers, pvp sewers 2days later, city released 4 days later etc)? This would seem to be the best way to debug most of the content in such a short window.

That's not currently the plan, no. We are going to be holding some testing events that put the focus on certain areas and systems, but beyond that the entirety of the DLC content and base-game patch will be available on PTS at the same time.

RazzPitazz

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

RazzPitazz wrote: »

Will the city itself be released in phases on the PTS(ie; sewers, pvp sewers 2days later, city released 4 days later etc)? This would seem to be the best way to debug most of the content in such a short window.

That's not currently the plan, no. We are going to be holding some testing events that put the focus on certain areas and systems, but beyond that the entirety of the DLC content and base-game patch will be available on PTS at the same time.

Ty for the reply

PBpsy

You don't need any tools. just make a 3.6CP character and go in the IC. Play there and give feedback about what the dynamics of the game will be on live . Because we all know that there is no difference between the PTS and live or that in the end any bugs reported on the PTS are fixed.

Merlin13KAGL

MissBizz wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm half hopeful the IC access restrictions will not be in place, or there will at least be a temporary 'cease fire' in regard to keeps so the IC can be properly tested without the normal keep defense.

The no-other-alliance-alt in the same campaign restriction should be waived, too, so we can test it from all three side without hunting for other characters.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I'd eventually love to see them put in a basic test vendor as I've seen in some past games that will sell you everything and anything for a gold each over on PTS, including respec scrolls, the best crafted potions, glyphs, every dropped or otherwise looted item set in the game, crafting materials, full research, etc.

That would be sheer genius, poetic even.

Make it a true test environment allowing one to do and undo changes without complete resets or character wipes. This would go a long way towards testing more efficiently.

That would completly miss the point of PTS. We are there to test, in example how good or bad is current plan regarding allowing players to access IC

@Merlin13KAGL AND @MaximusDargus They are testing what ways to give access (which keeps etc.) which also includes testing everyone has access all the time.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024746/#Comment_2024746

@MissBizz, while I understand they are entertaining various requirements to gain access, that check should be fairly simple to implement correctly (*Crosses fingers and toes, clicks heals together*)

What my interest is here, for most of the PTS time is that we spend time actually testing IC, not continuously securing access to IC, given the relatively limited timeframe for what amounts to a whole new zone.

@MaximusDargus , while I understand your concern, and think there should at least be a certain portion of the testing requiring that, I do not think it will give accurate results, as the people on PTS are not going to be an accurate subset of those on live.

Thus, the results from access/no access will be of limited use. As such, I'd rather find the brokenness in IC before finding out how much of it we can and cannot get to on live.

Attorneyatlawl

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm half hopeful the IC access restrictions will not be in place, or there will at least be a temporary 'cease fire' in regard to keeps so the IC can be properly tested without the normal keep defense.

The no-other-alliance-alt in the same campaign restriction should be waived, too, so we can test it from all three side without hunting for other characters.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I'd eventually love to see them put in a basic test vendor as I've seen in some past games that will sell you everything and anything for a gold each over on PTS, including respec scrolls, the best crafted potions, glyphs, every dropped or otherwise looted item set in the game, crafting materials, full research, etc.

That would be sheer genius, poetic even.

Make it a true test environment allowing one to do and undo changes without complete resets or character wipes. This would go a long way towards testing more efficiently.

Dark Age of Camelot (DAOC) truly was a game ahead of its time in so many ways . I saw a post-mortem written by Mark Jacobs in an interview collection around a year ago, which was done somewhere in late 2002 to early 2003. It was fascinating to hear the story of its development, especially captured at that particular point.

HeroOfNone

Since addons may or may not work and we may not have DPS meters, would we be able to see the famed target dummies? This would only be for testing on the PTS, so there shouldn't be any immersion breaking. If possible it would be good to have a dummy with different resistances enemies have (high armor, high spell resistance, specific elemental resistance) to see what effects champion point build have as well.

GTech_1

Here are some testing tools and modifications I have needed for over a year:
First, let me say, on the Live client, I am not a combat UI junky. I prefer the base UI. This is not a "gimme-buff-timerZ" post.
However, for testing purposes, we *need* damage, mitigation, ability cost, and regain / regen numbers.
We need this, even if the feature is only available on the PTS.

When testing, add ons can be unreliable, inaccurate, or just plain broken. The in-game tooltips don't always reflect the actual numbers, and checking tooltips for updates in combat is a mini-game all in itself.
Please give us a tool that makes testing these changes more reasonable.

The Most Important Modification I Need: The /bug UI is a pain in the tail to navigate, even for someone as experienced with it as I am. It needs an organizational update, which allows for convenient, and efficient reporting, with attention focused on the New User. Make this easy, intuitive, and user friendly. You'll get more reports, and the feedback will be easier to use.

/bug categories needed for the new content:

Imperial City:
- Content Access
- TelVar Stones (Currency)
- - - Banking
- - - Gain / Loss
- - - UI
- - - TelVar Vendors
- - - - - - Consumables
- - - - - - Gear
- - - - - - Other
- - - Other
- Zones
- - - Districts / Sewers
- - - Dungeons
- - - Events
- - - Travel
- - - Other
(Please note the important, and prolific "Other" categories)

/bug categories needed for prior content.
All of these need full category treatment. Of course, this is not all of them, but it would be a start:

Champion System
Justice System
Crown Store
Game Stability

Additional /bug modification needed:
Quests Category: Currently, the /bug UI only allows you to select incomplete quests from your quest log.
Please allow quests that have been completed this session to be reported, without the manual quest name entry.
User error, and decisions not to report a bug, are likely very high due to this issue.

Here are a few things I would like to have available for all future testing:

Full Mount Training on Template Characters: This will speed up the testing process (ba-dum-tis).

The New Mundus Stone Buff Values: Please expose these values in the "Current Active Effects" tooltip on the character sheet, *and* on the alert window that pops up when you activate a new Mundus Stone.

Full Availability of Crafted Sets: All traits learned, set station wayshrines explored, and materials ... Tons of materials (no time to farm on the PTS). Give us a load of materials, including enchant mats, herbs, trait stones and tempers, up to legendary, rather than just giving us non-ideal drop gear.

Undaunted gear sets: ... by The Divines ... please let me help you break the game with these, so we can all get the justified fix we really need.

And finally, here's something I've wanted for a very long time:

A Maxed, VR Vampire Template, so I can finally help you fix this life sucking monstrosity of "BatZ", passives, and nothing else really useful.

In the end, just give us good tools, easy reporting, and let us test this goodness using as much Meta-game as we can on live.
Let me break our game the *right* way ... trust me, it's for the best.

I hope this helps,
~GTech_1

SahrotRein

I'm sorry if this has been answered but as I've been reading through the forum I couldn't find an answer so when is Imperial City coming to PTS?