Not everyone likes solo PvE, group PvE, PvP, Crafting, or RP

tinythinker · January 2015

Relaxing Intro

Soooo, how are you? Care for a cup of tea? Perhaps a jelly baby?

Now, let's see. What is on the calm and polite discussion list for today? Hmm.

Ahh! Of course.

Topic

Yes, so there seems to be an ongoing and long-running misapprehension that an MMORPG that launched with the unofficial slogan "Play how you want" means one or more of the following:

The game should preferentially cater to my specific interests and play style, even if other players want something else or if what I want causes an imbalance in some other part of the game.
It should so in a way that means I never have to participate in other parts of the game that I don't care for, and if I must participate in those part of the game I should only have to do so as briefly as possible.
I should be able to run any build I want for any role and be as effective as any other build, and no changes to game mechanics should ever alter my preferred build even if there are compensations for the alterations.

Now, for the trolls, here's a cookie for you while trying to rile people up after they've had a nice soothing cup of tea:

For those who want to object that they are entitled to some version of what was listed above, even if not quite to that extreme, and are feeling agitated or argumentative before reading the rest of this post, try a slow deep breath or two. High blood pressure and negative stress can damage your heart and blood vessels. In through your nose, out through your mouth.

So, this is a game that has many different players and player interests. Many enjoy multiple parts of the game, and some enjoy all of it. For those who enjoy only one part of it, there will simply be less for you to do that you enjoy. In order to unlock certain skill lines, skill points, achievements, and so on, participating more broadly in the game is a requirement. However, no one is "forced" to do the other content. People choose to do that content because they want the rewards the come with it.

Examples

Let us take a couple of examples:

"I want to get the Cyrodiil PvE achievements, or the AvA bonuses, or the AvA dyes, without having to risk engaging in PvP or spending lots of time actively participating in the Alliance War"

Sure, but, these are activities and rewards that are supposed to be more challenging precisely because they are located in Cyrodiil. They require extra effort and extra risk. And referring to the Cyrodiil PvE content, this allows those who prefer to do less solo and group PvE content in the three sets of Alliance quest zones and the end-game Adventure Zones to still have a chance for some PvE flavor and to have more ways to earn XP in Cyrodiil.

"I want to level quickly by doing PvE grinding outside of Cyrodiil without having spend a great deal of time doing solo and group PvE content in the three sets of Alliance quest zones and the end-game Adventure Zones."

Sure, some folks want to have their characters become as powerful as quickly as possible to be more competitive in PvP, yet character advancement is intended to be meaningful, whether it is your first character or your fifth. A major reason for the switch to the Championship System is to give players more options for meaningful advancement while reducing the time it will take to become competitive (i.e. to level 50).

Many people like exploring each Alliance, some don't. Some like Craglorn questing, some don't. So with the new system you can "choose your own adventure" (to acknowledge this reference, turn to page 53; if you don't get it, turn to page 71).

It will be much easier to choose your own path to advancement once that system is fully implemented. Nonetheless, simply wanting to do super-fast level grinding prior to that implementation doesn't trump the preparations for that system, bug fixes, nor the fact that this game is more than just PvP. (Perhaps if they upped the XP for quests such Figher's Guild Bounties or the Cyrodiil city/town daily quests that would help?)

There are still ways to grind relatively quickly and the XP needed for veteran ranks has already been reduced quite a bit from what it was before. Someone will always be impatient with how long it takes to earn veteran ranks for as long as that system of advancement is in place, even if someone else was just satisfied by a change in how long it takes, but such perpetual impatience isn't the primary measuring stick for game design.

Summary for the TL;DR folks

There will always be something that those who have a narrower interest in the game, either in character build-design or playable content, is dissatisfied with. ZOS is working to address a large portion of these concerns with new mechanics and metas, as evidenced by the Championship System. Still, there are ways even now to avoid the things you don't like *if* you are willing to invest the time and effort. And if doing/not doing certain things matters to you, why not make that investment in order to "play how you want "?

Your feedback on the forums is read and considered, even if the eventual result isn't what you wanted, so constructive suggestions and comments on topics of concern to you *do* have value in shaping the picture the developers get from players. "Play as you want" is a great goal for ZOS to have, and there is nothing at all wrong with trying to see how far that can go with your requests and wish lists, but such a goal will by necessity have limits.

Feedback

If you had a mind-raising experience reading this post, or were simply made aware that these issues are as old as the game itself, click "Insightful".

If you acknowledge something accurate or meaningful in this post, the pedestrian form of feedback is for you, so click "Agree".

If you wish everyone who as ever played this game would read this post, please throttle back your enthusiasm as it's kind of ordinary and forgettable, but while you are still stoked click "Awesome".

If you are amused for some reason by how "Play as you want" is sometimes construed, particularly as a major argument for adding/reversing some narrow or provisional change that is important some people, and have no qualms about how said people might take your rating, even those who feel they have a genuine or legitimate concern, then go on, we can't stop you, go ahead and click "LOL".

Sallington · January 2015

I want to buy you ale.

Devs please sticky.

Roechacca · January 2015

TL;DR

tinythinker · January 2015

roechacca wrote: »

TL;DR

And yet, a quick scan reveals two small paragraphs just for you

Antiquity · January 2015

Dear OP,

Marry me. Twice.

Love,
Antiquity

(Seriously though, I completely agree with you)

Gidorick · January 2015

I just want to DANCE

http://youtu.be/4CLb0VfSpIc

UrQuan · January 2015

Yeah, there are a lot of people on the forums who need to read this.

Play how you want doesn't mean that your particular way of playing will necessarily give you the same rewards as someone else's way of playing. It just means that you have options. You're not forced to quest. You're not forced to grind. You're not forced to PvP. You're not forced to PvE. You're not forced to group. You're not forced to solo. You're not forced to use a particular gear layout. If you choose not to do some of those things you may miss out on some content etc. That's fine. Not everything has to be equally effective or have the same rewards.

Personally I have no real interest in PvP, but I sure don't begrudge PvP players their particular Cyrodil rewards and content, and I don't feel cheated because I'm not benefiting from it. That's my choice.

AlnilamE · January 2015

Indeed.

Lord_Draevan · January 2015

Unfortunately, "play the way you want" has its limits, especially in an MMO. It'd be utterly ridiculous if ESO truly did allow you to do so. The game would be an unplayable mess.

Nestor · January 2015

Play as you want has never meant you will be successful at everything you do with any build you want to make. I know I never took it that way.

But, other than Trials which I have no experience with, there are many many ways to take a character through this game. In the pure PvE areas, you really can do just about any build and be successful. I have a DK in Heavy Armor and he does just fine in Leveling/Silver/Gold Content. I have a Sorcerer who only uses a Staff, has no second weapon defined (skilled but not used at the moment, I have speced out the skill points on the other weapon skills). But she does just fine too. My MA DW Destro NB cleans up, but he was HA and 2H for a while there, back when Stamina had no love.

From what I understand there are less successfully viable builds in PvP, but each class seems to have something they can bring to the battle. So, for the most part, you can be what you want in PvP too. Maybe just not as flexible as PvE.

Sotha_Sil · January 2015

interesting topic

Ahdora · January 2015

Yes. YES. YASSSSS.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · January 2015

the only asterisk i would put to this, is 1.6 MAY improve the "play as you like concept." i do agree, people take "play as you like" too literal sometimes. now that the CP issues have been addressed, im excited to see if there is a broader range of combat options that are coming up in 1.6.

Jitterbug · January 2015

roechacca wrote: »

TL;DR

good for you man

nerevarine1138 · January 2015

This should become part of the game manual.

SteveCampsOut · January 2015

Sad Panda Feels Trolled By OP. Sad Panda Must Whine Now!

But seriously? Why doesn't the damn forum editor give me the option to color my text with the click of a button? Now I know BBCode allows it and is used here, but the editor doesn't have a nice clicky button! I must there fore whine some more and be totally off topic while doing so!

tinythinker · January 2015

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

the only asterisk i would put to this, is 1.6 MAY improve the "play as you like concept." i do agree, people take "play as you like" too literal sometimes. now that the CP issues have been addressed, im excited to see if there is a broader range of combat options that are coming up in 1.6.

Sure. I think that it is their *intention* to make the game more in line with a broad player choice, but I have no idea 1.6 will make significant strides toward this without seeing it.

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Sad Panda Feels Trolled By OP. Sad Panda Must Whine Now!

But seriously? Why doesn't the damn forum editor give me the option to color my text with the click of a button? Now I know BBCode allows it and is used here, but the editor doesn't have a nice clicky button! I must there fore whine some more and be totally off topic while doing so!

Hah, no, indeed, not trolling, just trying to cast a kind of "troll-reflect" on the post to lessen the impact of actual trolls should they stop by for a visit. I do sympathize with those who don't want to do the other Alliance quests (even though I enjoy them), or who are completionists who don't like PvP, etc. I've written before that I am all for more PvP cotent and rewards for PvP people, more solo quests for solo quest people, and so on. Lots of options for whatever floats your boat.

As for coloring text, I guess maybe that could be requested for the forum redesign? Personally I would like to ability to see the first X lines of text (10? 20?) when hovering over a post's title so that I can have some idea of what it is about.

Nestor · January 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

I've written before that I am all for more PvP cotent and rewards for PvP people, more solo quests for solo quest people, and so on. Lots of options for whatever floats your boat.