Request to remove diminishing returns on loot.

Turkeysammich

It's ridiculous, you can farm as much ore, runes, hides, alchemy ingredients, and wood you want, but when it comes to provision recipes and ingredients, you're up crap creek without a paddle. I just did a run through a dungeon with a lot of crates and barrels, 1st run I got an amount 5-20 each of six provision ingredients, about 50 items in all, took 30 minutes, the next run I get 5 items in total from those same crates and barrels. Next run 1 item in total. I still can't make a meal with any of it. It's even worse when it comes to recipes, 80%+ of containers are empty no matter what. If they weren't gotten before the patch, you're out of luck.

ChairGraveyard

+1, I hate diminishing returns.

dawnhawk

You may want to change the title of this and rephrase yourself. "Petitions" are not allowed on this system. So unless your goal is to have this thread locked, deleted and/or ignored - turn it into a discussion.

Ospoon

A lot of people reviled against this change, but no official word's come out that it will ever return to what it was, until they figure out a way around people logging in/out constantly to re-loot the same containers for rares. Poor design choice, poorer reaction.

Essentially, you're right, you're not gonna get jack from here on out. I have gotten one blue recipe drop and one motif (crappy High Elves) since the change and i've made it a point to loot everything now due to the decrease.

Fewer people will complain though, since a lot of subs have been cancelled due to the constant missteps by ZOS, and they're only riding out the free extra five days.

wrlifeboil

Move on to another site or city for provisioning materials.

Catches_the_Sun

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Move on to another site or city for provisioning materials.

That's easier said than done. Once you get into VR content, you get ingredients that match the level of the zone you are in, rather than being level 50+ ingredients. What that means is that for Mudcrab Meat, for example, you have to go back to Coldharbour. That tier of ingredients isn't found in The Rift & doesn't exist in VR content, so it's Coldharbour or nothing.

I just did a loot run in Coldharbour, and the change is very noticeable. I like to classify containers as your "high" containers (dressers, nightstands, trunks, wardrobes, etc) and your "low" containers (crates, barrels, sacks, baskets, etc). The majority of the high containers were empty or had lockpicks. There were only 2 high containers in the whole town that had something else in it & I am now the proud owner of 1 Starmetal & 1 white drink from those 2 containers. Of all the low containers, I'd say 60-70% of them were empty. My search for Mudcrab Meat yielded 1 unit. ONE slice of mudcrab meat in the whole town.

The combination of the below factors makes Veteran Rank Provisioning very difficult:

• Veteran content contains lower level ingredients
• You have to go back to Coldharbour to loot Tier 5 ingredients
• In Coldharbour, Tier 4 Provisioning ingredients share loot tables with Tier 5
• Now the majority of low containers contain no loot

ZOS_TristanK

Hello, everyone. We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone.

In order to ensure continued constructive and meaningful discussion on our forums, we ask that you please refrain from creating petition and protest organization threads on our forums. Neither allows for open, constructive discussion or exchange of ideas since most posts consist of “/signed.” Instead, we ask that you offer recommendations, suggestions, or requests about topics you feel need change. In order to continue making improvements to our game, it's important that we get details from you regarding why you like or dislike something.

We are leaving this thread open for discussion, but we've removed the word “petition” from the title and first post and changed it to “request.” If you have any questions or concerns about this edit, or our community rules of conduct, please feel free to contact us. Thank you!

Soloeus

I despec'd out of Provisioning, was fun but I can't be investing ranks into something that gets nerfed this badly.

I just can't.

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

The combination of the below factors makes Veteran Rank Provisioning very difficult:

• Veteran content contains lower level ingredients
• You have to go back to Coldharbour to loot Tier 5 ingredients
• In Coldharbour, Tier 4 Provisioning ingredients share loot tables with Tier 5
• Now the majority of low containers contain no loot

This itself is the entire discussion.

Cornmuffin

This seriously needs to be looked at. ZOS completely nerfed getting provisioning mats and now it is near impossible to find recipes. On top of it, even if a container is lootable, you can now open it and it is "empty". This makes loot timer even more aggravating, because you don't know when you can even start looting again and actually receive anything.

babylon

Easy fix - make motif books common and easily found so people can't sell them for 40,000 gold like the Daedra books etc (this puts the goldsellers out of business as well as making people who log in and out less likely to do so, because there's no money in it for them), and fill all the containers again.

Cheers.

Turkeysammich

moving to a new site or area doesn't work, from what everyone has gathered, it's an account global cooldown, and I have tried that actually, it's the same results.

AlMcFly

This patch killed Provision crafting. Why should it even exist in the game now? ZOS is better off removing it from the skill tree. Hundreds of people are going to respec out of it immediately because of this. Even if it gets fixed, nobody will try speccing into it again after this incident. I guarantee it won't be fixed soon either. That would mean ZOS admits they made a mistake. I've yet to see ZOS post-launch come back and say they made a bad decision. Last time they came even close to recanting was pre-launch when they announced "no first-person". The most recent patch killed Provision crafting. Period.

Edit: I mean no ill-will toward ZOS and I still love the game. However you are on a BIG trend of making bad decisions. Stop listening to the loudest people on these forums. They cause you to make extreme reactions that hurt more than help.

YourNameHere

Wow. And this after finding out the blue and purple recipes are borked.

I don't have the money to respec out of Provisioning. Guess I'm staying with stuff that's barely usable.

Thanks for the info guys. And please look into this ZoS. I can understand trying to 'fix' those who are exploiting things, but so far, doing a lot more harm than good.

Turkeysammich

In order to give feedback, we'd need an official reason for the nerf, and as the nerf was done in secret, without any notification, it just makes it that much more difficult.

Was it done to stop bots and gold sellers? (they're going to do anything and everything to earn that buck, if you start nerfing things just because of them, then they have succeeded in punishing normal players.)

Was it done to limit the amount of motifs? (which is really un-needed as they have no significant strategic value, all they do is allow crafting of different styles.)

As of now (technically, as of when the circulation of ingredients gotten before the nerf ceases to be), provisioning is/will be pointless, no one will have enough ingredients or recipes to even craft for themselves before they out level the need for their current level of food buffs.

If the loot isn't changed, then I think the only thing to do would to add provisioning ingredients to NPC shops, but that would make me feel lazy, and I'd probably spec out of provisioning anyway.

ChairGraveyard

The constant reliance on diminishing returns to "fight bots" is not a good trend and can only end up in players leaving.

It's ineffective at doing anything but annoying and frustrating legit players, while bots laugh all the way to the bank.

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO

Farmers blow my mind.

Exploiting game design so you can continuously loot the same areas comes in many forms, & is inherently against the very essence these games are created with.

Loot something, & move ON.

Diminishing returns remove part of the incentive to sit in one area & continuously kill the same creatures, or loot the same chests after logging & relogging...

over & over & over... That's not playing a game, that's gaming the system.

I for one am for the changes made in a continuing effort to stop the gold farmers & motif farmers from eroding the financial basis of the game.

Sorry it's hurting the way you play. As for me, it's not affecting me in the least.

BenjaminKacher_ESO

-1 Love the diminishing returns.

Rantog

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

... constructive discussion or exchange of ideas since most posts consist of “/signed.” Instead,

Apparently only Zenimax employees consider a thread with the word Petition in it to be an actual "sign me" petition..
Not One response is "/signed"

tordr86b16_ESO

lol wtf? so many bad decisions...

Rantog

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO wrote: »

Farmers blow my mind.

Exploiting game design so you can continuously loot the same areas comes in many forms, & is inherently against the very essence these games are created with.

Loot something, & move ON.

Thank you for demonstrating that no one actually READS the content of these posts before responding.

Moving On does Nothing. The items in question only come from a Very small number of containers in a very limited area - and once looted on ANY character on your account, are Limited Return on all characters on that account.

If the number of containers being discussed here were constant all the way back to level 1 content...
It would mean that if you collected the materials from Every container you came across, from the moment you exit the tutorial, til you are Maxed Vet.
You would have accumulated the necessary ingredients to craft a Grand Total of about a dozen food items, and 3 or 4 drinks.

So please.. tell us more about how this is how the game is Intended to be and how relogging to find the ingredients (the ONLY way to get them) is cheating.

theyancey

Another thing I would like to see happen with provisioning is for our finished products to be name labelled in the same way that other crafted items are. I spend a lot of time prospecting and cooking. Even more time is spent on inventory management. Is it too much to ask to have "Crafted by Yancius" added?

ChairGraveyard

Rantog wrote: »

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO wrote: »

Farmers blow my mind.

Exploiting game design so you can continuously loot the same areas comes in many forms, & is inherently against the very essence these games are created with.

Loot something, & move ON.

Thank you for demonstrating that no one actually READS the content of these posts before responding.

God, this.

It's like reading before posting some inane response is the most difficult thing in the universe to some people on this forum.

AlMcFly

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO wrote: »

Farmers blow my mind.

Exploiting game design so you can continuously loot the same areas comes in many forms, & is inherently against the very essence these games are created with.

Loot something, & move ON.

Diminishing returns remove part of the incentive to sit in one area & continuously kill the same creatures, or loot the same chests after logging & relogging...

over & over & over... That's not playing a game, that's gaming the system.

I for one am for the changes made in a continuing effort to stop the gold farmers & motif farmers from eroding the financial basis of the game.

Sorry it's hurting the way you play. As for me, it's not affecting me in the least.

All I see from your post is:

"I have no experience in provisioning and it doesn't affect me at all but I still want to give my opinion."

If you have no desire ever to participate in provisioning or haven't spent a significant amount of time trying to provision, then whatever you say doesn't really add anything of value to the conversation. The experience doesn't relate to you so you can't really provide much of an informed opinion. No offense meant at all bro.

AlMcFly

Blah, double post.

Korozenn

A lot of you are posting very good claims that back-up both the positive and negative sides of having diminishing returns in-place for loot. To end on a positive note, I'll recount the largest negative points of this loot system:

Negatives:
1) Obviously, any crafters who spec'd into Provisioning feel they have been shafted as they can no longer loot enough Tier 5 ingredients needed for Veteran Rank recipes--they rely on getting those from Coldharbour, where they get diminished loot for them.

Possible Solution: ZeniMax can make those Tier 5 ingredients that are necessary for VR recipes also available in Veteran Rank zones. This could eliminate the need to farm Coldharbour.

2) Many containers in the game are not lootable any longer...period. This causes frustration in those of us who are fans of the interactivity that Elder Scrolls games usually offer, and it takes three steps backwards from the level of interactivity we saw at launch for this game. It's as if we're going backwards in time to the point where we all had trouble in the beta with containers not being lootable again, which is a major cause for concern.

Interactivity is what ZOS should be aiming for out of TESO, not limiting it. While I personally think there isn't much issues with having a diminishing loot system in-place, the first run of content should then guarantee you be able to loot most of these containers found in the game. On top of that, bosses and enemies should thusly have better loot drops (which I have noticed has already been implemented, so I don't take much qualms there with the current system in place for those).

3) Not only Provisioners are being hurt by this change as crafters (in general) as well have had a terrible time trying to find motifs now. It should be easier to find the motifs for all races, with the exception of the four rare motifs that could take longer to accumulate by being kept at its current drop-rate (whatever that is).

We're not asking for an absurd drop-rate like it was in the final beta stress tests. We're just asking for a drop-rate that is still relatively reasonable so the game's economy doesn't become eschewed by all those people who farmed motifs prior to this update.

----

Now, for the Postives of this change:
1) This change obviously encourages trade amongst players more so than ever before. I run a guild that has been using the Guild Bank solely for the storage of mats, and it's actually been an effective way of accumulating those mats needed for VR meals like Mudcrab Meat as everyone makes their runs.

This change encourages trade. It also strengthens that aspect of relying on the camaraderie only found in guilds, and pushes that more social aspect of the game in end-game.

Sure, someone who doesn't like associating themselves with others wouldn't like a change like that, but it's changes like this that really show how strong a supportive community of fellow mates in your guild can dramatically enhance your overall gaming experience. I'm not a person who thought I'd be associating myself with hordes of people in-game and even going as far as creating my own guild from the ground-up, but after doing so, I would have it no other way.

I feel that's part of what makes The Elder Scrolls Online an entertaining multiplayer experience. It's the way that you're gradually introduced and opened up into these aspects of gameplay and can stumble across entire communities of people that play similarly to your interests all in the game just by helping someone out along your travels.

2) In regards to the diminishing loot returns: it's not only on crates, barrels, and sacks. This is also in relation to all other areas of the game: bosses, enemies, urns, cupboards, dressers, desks, you name it.

Simply put, it discourages gold sellers, botting, and the illegal RMT business that has been going on since launch. On top of whatever measures they are currently taking in dungeons, it's clear that bots are no longer anywhere near as noticeable as they once were, or have as significant an impact on gameplay that it shifts the balance of the game. Whether we like it or not, something like this is a necessary short-term fix until ZeniMax can find a way to create a long-term fix to this issue.

3) Farming, hoarding, and other forms of gathering tons of loot from these areas in-game can cause high-leveled content in the game to sell for relatively cheap prices, forcing people to price-gouge their items to sell them for a below-average price. What if you crafted a legendary set of gear to only have it sell for a couple thousand gold coins as more people continue to farm the mats to make gear like that?

The same can be said about meals and drinks that you make in Provisioning, or even Alchemy with the different solvents you find to make potions (and eventually poisons). It's no good for an economy to have too much of one thing.

As said in the list of negatives, though, it's not a good sign when you're almost in your Veteran Ranks, looted almost every container you had in your Alliance's territory, and don't even have close to the amount of recipes and motifs you should already have by the time you reach end-game.

Now THAT'S a huge problem I hope ZeniMax works on fixing soon. Finding ingredients is one thing---that can easily be fixed by just joining a guild or creating your own, like I and many others have already. However, finding the recipes and motifs are a whole other story.

To those who say they don't get enough mats from their hirelings, it's usually because they have a lower-level alt and a high-level main. Mats are distributed from a range of your lowest-level character to your highest-level one on your account when you get hireling mail. In other words, it'd be harder to find purple and gold tempers with a lower-level alt on your account than it would if you had only one character who was already in end-game.

Gillysan

+1 diminishing returns
-1 account based

-10 why on earth did provisioning mats get put into the same mechanic?
another -1 white/normal drops shouldn't be on this list as well

Evergnar

All I know is I would prefer a "laughing" sound when opening a container that's empty. Tie it to the Daedric Lord of Consumables or something. I'd also settle for a "Did someone steal your sweet roll?" as well

Eris

Turkeysammich wrote: »

In order to give feedback, we'd need an official reason for the nerf, and as the nerf was done in secret, without any notification, it just makes it that much more difficult.

I'd be willing to bet that it was done because people were logging on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and always picking stuff up with each relog.

Korozenn

Evergnar wrote: »

All I know is I would prefer a "laughing" sound when opening a container that's empty. Tie it to the Daedric Lord of Consumables or something. I'd also settle for a "Did someone steal your sweet roll?" as well

"M'aiq wishes you well."

Turkeysammich

I don't know if I'm just bugged or what, but moving to a new area changes nothing. Lets say I loot a dungeon of it crates and barrels, then I go to the nearest town bank, those containers have the "diminishing returns" effect. The tavern has the "diminishing returns" effect, I use a waypoint and change areas completely, that area also has the "diminishing returns " effect.

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO wrote: »

Farmers blow my mind.

Exploiting game design so you can continuously loot the same areas comes in many forms, & is inherently against the very essence these games are created with.

Loot something, & move ON.

Diminishing returns remove part of the incentive to sit in one area & continuously kill the same creatures, or loot the same chests after logging & relogging...

over & over & over... That's not playing a game, that's gaming the system.

I for one am for the changes made in a continuing effort to stop the gold farmers & motif farmers from eroding the financial basis of the game.

Sorry it's hurting the way you play. As for me, it's not affecting me in the least.

What's the difference of taking advantage of the instanced containers by logging out and resetting them, versus choosing and area radius and harvesting nodes? It's basically the same thing, except you don't have to log out for the nodes to respawn. You can choose a route to harvest ore, and have a full stack of 100 in 10 to 20 minutes. You can do the same thing collecting hide, and have a full stack even faster. Yet, provisioning ingredient drop rate was nerfed. Provisioning is also the only trade skill that needs recipes.

I'm sorry that it's not affecting you in the least, I'm guessing you don't have provisioning, or are a level high enough to where you could really use good food effects. Let's say you're a Blacksmith, though, how would you react when ore node you collected gave you nothing at all, or a lock pick, 5 to 6 times, and node respawn time was drastically increased? Or are you a woodworker? so let's say every wood node you collected was also empty 5 out of 6 times. That's what we're getting.

Sure you could trade with other players, and you could use the guild store, but have you ever tried to look for provisioning ingredients in 5 guilds each with 500 people. When you search materials, it doesn't filter out weapons or accessories, so you literally have to spend an hour looking for them. You could get one of the search addons, but they also take a long time. How are you going to trade with others, though, when ingredients are limited due to everyone else also having diminishing returns? I've been searching for a specific recipe, but since the diminishing returns started, it's dropped for no one, I ask everyday for it, yet before, there were a few of them going around. In order to get specific recipes you have to loot containers within it's level range, which is limited, and now, with diminishing returns, it's even more limited, close to impossible to get.

Big_Bob

I suggest that make racial motifs easier to find by an individual, and once they got it in their backpack and/or use it, said racial motif would not drop for the person anymore.

This way, eradicating the ridiculous sales on motifs and everyone having an equal fair experience.