Heavy Attack Resource Return Values

Circuitous

Sorry if this information has been posted elsewhere, I figure a thread containing the info will be more useful than digging for it elsewhere.

So far I've only tested veteran-ranked characters, more numbers to come shortly. Tests were performed on a variety of characters, with varying points spent in each resource, skill levels in each weapon, and even weapon levels. Numbers were consistent across the board.

Level 50+
Dual-Wielded Weapons: 105 Stamina.
One-Handed Weapons: 118 Stamina.
Two-Handed Melee Weapons: 142 Stamina.
Bows: 177 Stamina.
Fire/Ice/Restoration Staves: 189 Magicka.
Lightning Staff: 212 Magicka.
Restoration Staff + Cycle of Life 2: 245 Magicka.

Level 4:
Dual Wield: 9 Stamina
One-Hand: 10 Stamina
Two-Hand: 12 Stamina
Bow: 15 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 16 Magicka
L Staff: 18 Magicka

Level 6:
Dual Wield: 13 Stamina
One-Hand: 15 Stamina
Two-Handed: 18 Stamina
Bow: 22 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 24 Magicka
L Staff: 27 Magicka

Level 13:
Dual Wield: 27 Stamina
One-Handed: 31 Stamina
Two-Handed: 37 Stamina
Bow: 46 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 49 Magicka
L Staff: 55 Magicka

Level 17:
Dual Wield: 36 Stamina
One-Handed: 40 Stamina
Two-Handed: 48 Stamina
Bow: 60 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 64 Magicka
L Staff: 72 Magicka

Level 18:
Dual Wield: 38 Stamina
One-Handed: 43 Stamina
Two-Handed: 51 Stamina
Bow: 64 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 69 Magicka
L Staff: 77 Magicka

Level 24:
Dual Wield: 51 Stamina
One-Handed: 57 Stamina
Two-Handed: 68 Stamina
Bow: 86 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 91 Magicka
L Staff: 103 Magicka

Need a lot more samples before I can really work out the math behind it.

Oolou

Thanks for the info!

Aenra

Thank you for the effort @Circuitous, nice to have some numbers to compare.
hope more get to contribute

niocwy

Nice numbers. Thanks a lot
One question though : does a partially charged heavy attack, say, for a 2H weapon, restore as much stamina as a fully charged one ?

Circuitous

niocwy wrote: »

Nice numbers. Thanks a lot
One question though : does a partially charged heavy attack, say, for a 2H weapon, restore as much stamina as a fully charged one ?

It restores none. You have to pull all the way back to get the stamina. (However, you don't have to finish the animation. Canceling at the peak of the charge still works.)

david.haypreub18_ESO

Wow, that is surprising to me.

It is a good change, but again it seems like the game just can't stop favoring magicka builds, even in this. The magicka gain of staves is just so much higher than the stamina gain for weapons, even though stamina is also used for block/dodge/cc break sprint. Seriously, what is up with that?

Circuitous

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Wow, that is surprising to me.

It is a good change, but again it seems like the game just can't stop favoring magicka builds, even in this. The magicka gain of staves is just so much higher than the stamina gain for weapons, even though stamina is also used for block/dodge/cc break sprint. Seriously, what is up with that?

Shrug.

There's a kind of balance in it, though. Staff power attacks need to be fully charged and hit the opponent to restore resources. Other weapons can simply be released or canceled at the peak of the windup and still get the benefit.

I absolutely agree that the values seem too low, though.

KenjiJU

Do you have any data with attack speeds? I'm curious if the full wind-up times are slightly different, causing the different values. 2-hander makes sense over DW, but Bow seems too high.

Stratti

Does it stack with the stamina return enchant that returns on hit ?

Circuitous

Stratti wrote: »

Does it stack with the stamina return enchant that returns on hit ?

I can't confirm the stamina enchant directly, but my magicka return enchantments worked.

Circuitous

I don't want this to get completely buried. Anybody have characters of other levels that can give their results?

thorspark

Great gathering of info thanks

AshySamurai

Why ZOS think that bow should restore more stamina than everything else? IMO 2H should be the most stamina-returning weapon, but not bow.
@Circuitous‌, did you know that you can edit your messages?

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

AshySamurai wrote: »

Why ZOS think that bow should restore more stamina than everything else? IMO 2H should be the most stamina-returning weapon, but not bow.
@Circuitous‌, did you know that you can edit your messages?

bow has to travel to land, 2h will hit faster cos its closer

thorspark

inspiral1 wrote: »

bow has to travel to land, 2h will hit faster cos its closer

Good conclusion.

Can anybody confirm that 1H/S restore stamina and magicka ? and not only on heavy attacks ? I'm curious about this

Rune_Relic

Is this resource discrepancy based on animation time or just another overall magicka buff ?

Rune_Relic

Dual-Wielded Weapons 105
One-Handed Weapons 118
Two-Handed Melee Weapons 142
Bows 177
Fire/Ice/Restoration Staves 189
Lightning Staff 212
Restoration Staff + Cycle of Life 2 245

Level 4 4/50th
Dual Wield 9 8.4
One-Hand 10 9.4
Two-Hand 12 11.4
Bow 15 14.2
I/F/R Staff 16 15.1
L Staff 18 17.0

Level 6 6/50th
Dual Wield 13 12.6
One-Hand 15 14.2
Two-Handed 18 17.0
Bow 22 21.2
I/F/R Staff 24 22.7
L Staff 27 25.4

Level 13 13/50th
Dual Wield 27 27.3
One-Handed 31 30.7
Two-Handed 37 36.9
Bow 46 46.0
I/F/R Staff 49 49.1
L Staff 55 55.1

Level 24 24/50th
Dual Wield 51 50.4
One-Handed 57 56.6
Two-Handed 68 68.2
Bow 86 85.0
I/F/R Staff 91 90.7
L Staff 103 101.8

1st number is observed. 2nd number is level vs level 50 values
Thank for digging by the way.

Kego

I think it is part of the costs. Magicka skills costs more Magicka than Stamina Skills costs Stamina.

F.e.:

Bow - Venom Arrow - 252 Base Stamina - 148 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

Destru Staff - Crushing Shock - 280 Base Magicka - 221 Magicka with 21% Cost Reduction

Dual Wield - Flurry - 364 Base Stamina - 214 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

AshySamurai

inspiral1 wrote: »

bow has to travel to land, 2h will hit faster cos its closer

True. But bows mostly used in range, and 2h only in melee. I want to tell, that if you're an archer and you let enemy close to you - it's your bad. But when you in distance, you can hit 2 or 3 times without any damage to you (exept DK wings). When you wield 2H you're always in the fight. So it's more dangerous, than bow. BTW if arrow(heavy attack) reflected, you get stamina or not? Anyone want to test it?

MorHawk

Well-earned bump. More folks need to see this.

Soulshine

If these numbers are even remotely correct, then for my Templar that seems more like a decrease in magicka return. At vr12 she was getting back at least 250 off a heavy attack last I checked... so that number above seems off to me.

MorHawk

Soulshine wrote: »

If these numbers are even remotely correct, then for my Templar that seems more like a decrease in magicka return. At vr12 she was getting back at least 250 off a heavy attack last I checked... so that number above seems off to me.

Nope, the numbers are good. Yes, if you had more than 2450 magicka pre-patch, this is indeed a nerf. Assuming you were rocking a Restro staff, of course.

Soulshine

MorHawk wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

If these numbers are even remotely correct, then for my Templar that seems more like a decrease in magicka return. At vr12 she was getting back at least 250 off a heavy attack last I checked... so that number above seems off to me.

Nope, the numbers are good. Yes, if you had more than 2450 magicka pre-patch, this is indeed a nerf. Assuming you were rocking a Restro staff, of course.

Hmm. So the diminishing returns take yet another bite *sigh*

david.haypreub18_ESO

The values just seem so out of whack. Why STILL favor magicka over stamina and ranged over melee? The game already has way more magicka builds than stamina builds and way more ranged than melee. This one makes no sense to me.

Mahogany

Not happy that this subtle nerf to well geared/designed healers comes in the form of a tooltip that appears to promise a 30% increase on the original return value. Sigh.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO

I'm not terribly familiar with the staves, but is the reason lightning staff gives higher return because the heavy attack is sort of a stream attack instead of a single projectile, or is there something else going on there?

Tankqull

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

I'm not terribly familiar with the staves, but is the reason lightning staff gives higher return because the heavy attack is sort of a stream attack instead of a single projectile, or is there something else going on there?

while stamina and fire/ice staffs can skip the very last part of the animation and still get the refill - channeld heavy attacks like healing- and lightningstaffs have to be channeled through the entire duration untill the client finishes it entirely.

thus i would say the casting duration is the only defining aspect.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

I'm not terribly familiar with the staves, but is the reason lightning staff gives higher return because the heavy attack is sort of a stream attack instead of a single projectile, or is there something else going on there?

while stamina and fire/ice staffs can skip the very last part of the animation and still get the refill - channeld heavy attacks like healing- and lightningstaffs have to be channeled through the entire duration untill the client finishes it entirely.

thus i would say the casting duration is the only defining aspect.

That makes sense, thanks

Circuitous

Circuitous wrote: »

I don't want this to get completely buried. Anybody have characters of other levels that can give their results?

Quoting myself. More examples would help us get an idea of how the returned value is calculated.

MorHawk

Circuitous wrote: »

I don't want this to get completely buried. Anybody have characters of other levels that can give their results?

Remind me tonight if I forget, I've got a L17 I can test on.

SpAEkus

What addon are you using for data display and what is the basic test procedure.

Do I have to eliminate any buff-equipment variables before testing?