Heavy Attack Resource Return Values

spoqster

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Wow, that is surprising to me.

It is a good change, but again it seems like the game just can't stop favoring magicka builds, even in this. The magicka gain of staves is just so much higher than the stamina gain for weapons, even though stamina is also used for block/dodge/cc break sprint. Seriously, what is up with that?

Yeah, this is the part I don't understand. I thought they would enable ONLY stamina regeneration to compensate for spending the stamina pool for utilities. It came as a big surprise to me that heavy attacks can restore magicka as well.

spoqster

Kego wrote: »

I think it is part of the costs. Magicka skills costs more Magicka than Stamina Skills costs Stamina.

F.e.:

Bow - Venom Arrow - 252 Base Stamina - 148 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

Destru Staff - Crushing Shock - 280 Base Magicka - 221 Magicka with 21% Cost Reduction

Dual Wield - Flurry - 364 Base Stamina - 214 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

How do you get 41% stamina cost reduction?

MorHawk

spoqster wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

I think it is part of the costs. Magicka skills costs more Magicka than Stamina Skills costs Stamina.

F.e.:

Bow - Venom Arrow - 252 Base Stamina - 148 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

Destru Staff - Crushing Shock - 280 Base Magicka - 221 Magicka with 21% Cost Reduction

Dual Wield - Flurry - 364 Base Stamina - 214 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

How do you get 41% stamina cost reduction?

21% from Med armour's Wind Walker passive, 20% from weapon passives (Ranger for Bows, Controlled Fury for DW and Balance for 2H).
Also of note here is Fortress for S/S, though that only gives 10% off, compensated for by 30% off blocking cost.

spoqster

MorHawk wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

I think it is part of the costs. Magicka skills costs more Magicka than Stamina Skills costs Stamina.

F.e.:

Bow - Venom Arrow - 252 Base Stamina - 148 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

Destru Staff - Crushing Shock - 280 Base Magicka - 221 Magicka with 21% Cost Reduction

Dual Wield - Flurry - 364 Base Stamina - 214 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

How do you get 41% stamina cost reduction?

21% from Med armour's Wind Walker passive, 20% from weapon passives (Ranger for Bows, Controlled Fury for DW and Balance for 2H).
Also of note here is Fortress for S/S, though that only gives 10% off, compensated for by 30% off blocking cost.

Ah, that's right, Wind Walker was changed, wasn't it?

Tankqull

spoqster wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

I think it is part of the costs. Magicka skills costs more Magicka than Stamina Skills costs Stamina.

F.e.:

Bow - Venom Arrow - 252 Base Stamina - 148 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

Destru Staff - Crushing Shock - 280 Base Magicka - 221 Magicka with 21% Cost Reduction

Dual Wield - Flurry - 364 Base Stamina - 214 Stamina with 41% Cost Reduction

How do you get 41% stamina cost reduction?

21% from Med armour's Wind Walker passive, 20% from weapon passives (Ranger for Bows, Controlled Fury for DW and Balance for 2H).
Also of note here is Fortress for S/S, though that only gives 10% off, compensated for by 30% off blocking cost.

Ah, that's right, Wind Walker was changed, wasn't it?

jep increased from 14 to 21%

Circuitous

SpAEkus wrote: »

What addon are you using for data display and what is the basic test procedure.

Do I have to eliminate any buff-equipment variables before testing?

I use Combat Cloud, but anything would work (FTC, etc.).

The only thing you'd need to remove are things that restore stamina/magicka on hit, but even those can be kept if you can separate the two values.

MorHawk

Circuitous wrote: »

SpAEkus wrote: »

What addon are you using for data display and what is the basic test procedure.

Do I have to eliminate any buff-equipment variables before testing?

I use Combat Cloud, but anything would work (FTC, etc.).

The only thing you'd need to remove are things that restore stamina/magicka on hit, but even those can be kept if you can separate the two values.

Yeah, especially if you're running heavy armour.

Circuitous

MorHawk wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

SpAEkus wrote: »

What addon are you using for data display and what is the basic test procedure.

Do I have to eliminate any buff-equipment variables before testing?

I use Combat Cloud, but anything would work (FTC, etc.).

The only thing you'd need to remove are things that restore stamina/magicka on hit, but even those can be kept if you can separate the two values.

Yeah, especially if you're running heavy armour.

Well for example, I had an enchant that restored magicka on my weapons, but when two messages came up I could just pick the one that wasn't from the enchant by the number, so it's not really an issue.

SpAEkus

Circuitous wrote: »

I use Combat Cloud, but anything would work (FTC, etc.).

The only thing you'd need to remove are things that restore stamina/magicka on hit, but even those can be kept if you can separate the two values.

Well I have a VR1-L7-L8-L9-L10-L15-L16. Most are pure crafters that have already respec'd out of any class or weapon skills/passives.

I was thinking to run them all completely naked and the 2 PVE-PVP with absolutely no skills in the bar. Afraid I don't want to respec the 2 PVE-PVP to bare stats.

Do we need to gather data against what other equipment-buffs add or do you just need the baseline numbers with as many variables removed as possible.

If my numbers show the same gain-loss against all characters then you have what you need?

Circuitous

SpAEkus wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

I use Combat Cloud, but anything would work (FTC, etc.).

The only thing you'd need to remove are things that restore stamina/magicka on hit, but even those can be kept if you can separate the two values.

Well I have a VR1-L7-L8-L9-L10-L15-L16. Most are pure crafters that have already respec'd out of any class or weapon skills/passives.

I was thinking to run them all completely naked and the 2 PVE-PVP with absolutely no skills in the bar. Afraid I don't want to respec the 2 PVE-PVP to bare stats.

Do we need to gather data against what other equipment-buffs add or do you just need the baseline numbers with as many variables removed as possible.

If my numbers show the same gain-loss against all characters then you have what you need?

I didn't respec at all. They're flat numbers and they'll show up in your log distinct from any other regens you might have. Charge a power attack, write down the number, post it here. Don't overthink it.

AshySamurai

Maybe someone checked it, but if you missed (if target dodged) or your attack was reflected, you still have resource back or not?

spoqster

At VR7 I also got +142 on a HA with a 2H sword.

MorHawk

AshySamurai wrote: »

Maybe someone checked it, but if you missed (if target dodged) or your attack was reflected, you still have resource back or not?

Just rumour here, but I heard that staffs get it as soon as you fire, but bows have to hit.

Circuitous

MorHawk wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Maybe someone checked it, but if you missed (if target dodged) or your attack was reflected, you still have resource back or not?

Just rumour here, but I heard that staffs get it as soon as you fire, but bows have to hit.

All of them have to hit, but the resource return comes at different points in the animation.

DW/OH/TH: when the downward swing occurs (must hit enemy). You can cancel the downward swing with a skill/block and still get the stamina.
Bow/Ice/Fire: when projectile connects.
Lightning/Resto: when last tick of channeled attack hits.

Dodges are counted as whiffs and restore nothing.

MorHawk

Finally got round to this:
Level 17:
Dual Wield: 36 Stamina
One-Handed: 40 Stamina
Two-Handed: 48 Stamina
Bow: 60 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 64 Magicka
L Staff: 72 Magicka

So turns out there is something to be aware of when testing this- the combat log won't show the complete values if the bar is almost filled. For example, I got a value of 43 for my bow because that was all that was left to fill on my stamina. As such, folks need to get two successive values on their log to be sure.

EDIT: Level 18 values:
Dual Wield: 38 Stamina
One-Handed: 43 Stamina
Two-Handed: 51 Stamina
Bow: 64 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 69 Magicka
L Staff: 77 Magicka

Current averages per level are below:
Dual Wield: 2.08 Stamina
One-Handed: 2.45 Stamina
Two-Handed: 2.86 Stamina
Bow: 3.60 Stamina
I/F/R Staff: 3.96 Magicka
L Staff: 4.38 Magicka

There's a bit of variation, but it never goes outside below 2 or above 5 per level. Also, those figures are very close to the level 50 values divided by 50, so it's looking very much like the increases are flat-line incremental.

Circuitous

Thanks for the new numbers. Also yeah, forgot to mention that you need to have enough stamina/magicka missing to see the full amount.

Trihugger

I am terribly sorry to necro such an old thread but I can't find anything more recent relating to Magicka restoration upon heavy attacks.

Is this information still accurate?