I implore you, let me change my race!

Erock25

Long read so here is an extremely lazy summation.

TL;DR

- ZOS should allow us to buy race changes or racial passive changes (whole set, not pick and choose)
- Why I thought melee crit khajit sorc would work
- Why it didn't work
- It is a win-win for everyone. More money for ZOS. More happy players.
- Racial passives are not irrelevant

I have made a couple of topics about this before and I apologize for repeating them, but for me it is a huge issue and something that could be easily remedied by ZOS, that would give them extra cash flow to keep improving this awesome game.

A few days prior to the early access release of this game, I had the brilliant idea to make a melee crit based Sorcerer. I'm not sure if anyone here has played Age of Conan, but I was modeling my character after the post Khitai Dark Templar. This was a melee class that was dependent on critical rating (because of a certain skill, Void of Madness, that proc'd effects with crits) to do damage and to heal itself. So Critical Surge was going to be my Void of Madness and my character was going to dominate. I wanted to stack crit to the extreme so of course I rolled a Khajit. I was sure my plan would work out extremely well.

Things were looking great throughout the 1-50 experience. I was 2h/bows crit build and I was having a ton of fun. Then, pre-nerf VR levels happened and I was reading the never ending stream of stavess are OP comments on the forums so I decided to give it a whirl. My vision of a melee based crit build quickly vanished before my eyes. Everything was easier with staves. I begrudgingly used them while giving forlorn glances at my 6% melee crit, sneaking radius reduction + bonus dmg, and health regen racial traits.

Of course, I refused to give up on melee weapons. With Destruction and Restoration at level 50, I decided to try my hand at DW and Sword and Board, leveling them from the teens to the max while questing through pre-nerf VR content. Everything I could do with staves, I could do with melee (albeit with a much smaller margin for error) besides soloing dolmens, group delves, and world bosses. Things were looking up for my melee crit based Sorc, that is, until I got serious about group content and PVP and also installed a DPS meter add-on.

No matter what I tried, because of a combination of flat out more damaging skills, fight mechanics that favored range, and of course the all powerful Spell Symmetry, I was doing at least twice as much damage on average with my ranged magicka staff builds. I was disheartened, but at least I thought with a group PVE tank build I would benefit more from melee weapons. NOPE! Wrong again. Tanking with staves completely outperformed melee. My last hope was PVP. I just knew that I would excel with melee. Many, many hours later and there is literally no situation in PVP I can't handle better with staves. Not to mention crit builds in PVP are obsolete with the overpowered Impenetrable trait on armor.

So here I am, with a VR9 Khajit Sorcerer, using resto/destruction set up in Trials, PVP, and solo PVE. I didn't want to play this way, but I was forced to because I like to get every ounce of potential out of my character. I look at my racial passives and see 100% waste. I look at PTS server and see that they are upping magicka/stamina/hp soft caps. I look at high elf / breton / dark elf passives and think how I would not hesitate for a second to pay $20 to ZOS to be able to change my race and/or change my racial passives (aka still a Khajit, but a Khajit with 4% more elemental dmg, 10% more magicka, and 9% more magicka recovery).

I know from my previous topics that there are a lot of people very against what I suggest. I just don't understand why. Especially if they go the route of letting you pay for racial passive swaps, I just don't see any downside at all. ZOS gets more money and there are more happy people in the game. I know race changes aren't usually present in MMOs, but in the grand scheme of things, these racial passives are a large chunk of overall character potential. 4% damage, 10% magicka, and 9% magicka regen are HUGE compared to the big fat zero use I am getting out of Khajit passives. I also know people will suggest I reroll, but I'd quit before leveling another Sorc (I still have two classes I need to level), and I would hate to scrap a character I have spent over 300 hours on.

madangrypally

I would purchase a race change. I have so much more information today then I did when I first created my character that I am left with regret on the race I chose.

I am happy with my:
Nord Templar.
Orc Dragonknight.
Argonian Nightblade.

I am very unhappy with my:
Bosmer Sorcerer. The sad part is this has ended up being the character I play the most.

Awdwyn

I completely disagree from a RPG standpoint. Your character should have investment, not just as a set of skills but as a whole character. Your race is integral to who you are and using currency (ingame or real) to change that doesn't fit. Now, that being said, if there was a lore friendly method (quest line?) that could allow for a race change, then perhaps that could work.

Soloeus

Erock25 wrote: »

Long read so here is an extremely lazy summation.

TL;DR

- ZOS should allow us to buy race changes or racial passive changes (whole set, not pick and choose)
- Why I thought melee crit khajit sorc would work
- Why it didn't work
- It is a win-win for everyone. More money for ZOS. More happy players.
- Racial passives are not irrelevant

I have made a couple of topics about this before and I apologize for repeating them, but for me it is a huge issue and something that could be easily remedied by ZOS, that would give them extra cash flow to keep improving this awesome game.

A few days prior to the early access release of this game, I had the brilliant idea to make a melee crit based Sorcerer. I'm not sure if anyone here has played Age of Conan, but I was modeling my character after the post Khitai Dark Templar. This was a melee class that was dependent on critical rating (because of a certain skill, Void of Madness, that proc'd effects with crits) to do damage and to heal itself. So Critical Surge was going to be my Void of Madness and my character was going to dominate. I wanted to stack crit to the extreme so of course I rolled a Khajit. I was sure my plan would work out extremely well.

Things were looking great throughout the 1-50 experience. I was 2h/bows crit build and I was having a ton of fun. Then, pre-nerf VR levels happened and I was reading the never ending stream of stavess are OP comments on the forums so I decided to give it a whirl. My vision of a melee based crit build quickly vanished before my eyes. Everything was easier with staves. I begrudgingly used them while giving forlorn glances at my 6% melee crit, sneaking radius reduction + bonus dmg, and health regen racial traits.

Of course, I refused to give up on melee weapons. With Destruction and Restoration at level 50, I decided to try my hand at DW and Sword and Board, leveling them from the teens to the max while questing through pre-nerf VR content. Everything I could do with staves, I could do with melee (albeit with a much smaller margin for error) besides soloing dolmens, group delves, and world bosses. Things were looking up for my melee crit based Sorc, that is, until I got serious about group content and PVP and also installed a DPS meter add-on.

No matter what I tried, because of a combination of flat out more damaging skills, fight mechanics that favored range, and of course the all powerful Spell Symmetry, I was doing at least twice as much damage on average with my ranged magicka staff builds. I was disheartened, but at least I thought with a group PVE tank build I would benefit more from melee weapons. NOPE! Wrong again. Tanking with staves completely outperformed melee. My last hope was PVP. I just knew that I would excel with melee. Many, many hours later and there is literally no situation in PVP I can't handle better with staves. Not to mention crit builds in PVP are obsolete with the overpowered Impenetrable trait on armor.

So here I am, with a VR9 Khajit Sorcerer, using resto/destruction set up in Trials, PVP, and solo PVE. I didn't want to play this way, but I was forced to because I like to get every ounce of potential out of my character. I look at my racial passives and see 100% waste. I look at PTS server and see that they are upping magicka/stamina/hp soft caps. I look at high elf / breton / dark elf passives and think how I would not hesitate for a second to pay $20 to ZOS to be able to change my race and/or change my racial passives (aka still a Khajit, but a Khajit with 4% more elemental dmg, 10% more magicka, and 9% more magicka recovery).

I know from my previous topics that there are a lot of people very against what I suggest. I just don't understand why. Especially if they go the route of letting you pay for racial passive swaps, I just don't see any downside at all. ZOS gets more money and there are more happy people in the game. I know race changes aren't usually present in MMOs, but in the grand scheme of things, these racial passives are a large chunk of overall character potential. 4% damage, 10% magicka, and 9% magicka regen are HUGE compared to the big fat zero use I am getting out of Khajit passives. I also know people will suggest I reroll, but I'd quit before leveling another Sorc (I still have two classes I need to level), and I would hate to scrap a character I have spent over 300 hours on.

HOLY CRAP BATMAN TL;DR.

I almost agree with a Race Change option in the Cash Shop. How about $19.99 USD?

Nox_Aeterna

I support this idea also.

I dont see much point on my current char unless i could also change my class , cant get any better than breton on my templar i think , but for others like you OP , it might be a perk.

So i hope they add it for you in the cash shop.

Aeratus

I totally support a race change option.

I'm playing a NB and selected Khajiit in order to play a crit stamina build. Then I realized that stamina builds were poor, so I switched to an all caster build. The problem of course is that the Khajiit passives do nothing (ok, the physical crit does adds to impale, but that's almost nothing).

On the other hand, the advantage of altmer/breton (10% magicka) and dunmer (9% magicka) is enormous. 10% is twice the amount you get from replacing your white glyph enchants to legendary glyph enchants.

Erock25

See ZOS! $60 bucks waiting for you in this thread already after the first few replies.

kieso

I support this decision based on the fact that some racial types are just so much better than others in this stick/light armor world.

Wifeaggro13

Erock25 wrote: »

Long read so here is an extremely lazy summation.

TL;DR

- ZOS should allow us to buy race changes or racial passive changes (whole set, not pick and choose)
- Why I thought melee crit khajit sorc would work
- Why it didn't work
- It is a win-win for everyone. More money for ZOS. More happy players.
- Racial passives are not irrelevant

I have made a couple of topics about this before and I apologize for repeating them, but for me it is a huge issue and something that could be easily remedied by ZOS, that would give them extra cash flow to keep improving this awesome game.

A few days prior to the early access release of this game, I had the brilliant idea to make a melee crit based Sorcerer. I'm not sure if anyone here has played Age of Conan, but I was modeling my character after the post Khitai Dark Templar. This was a melee class that was dependent on critical rating (because of a certain skill, Void of Madness, that proc'd effects with crits) to do damage and to heal itself. So Critical Surge was going to be my Void of Madness and my character was going to dominate. I wanted to stack crit to the extreme so of course I rolled a Khajit. I was sure my plan would work out extremely well.

Things were looking great throughout the 1-50 experience. I was 2h/bows crit build and I was having a ton of fun. Then, pre-nerf VR levels happened and I was reading the never ending stream of stavess are OP comments on the forums so I decided to give it a whirl. My vision of a melee based crit build quickly vanished before my eyes. Everything was easier with staves. I begrudgingly used them while giving forlorn glances at my 6% melee crit, sneaking radius reduction + bonus dmg, and health regen racial traits.

Of course, I refused to give up on melee weapons. With Destruction and Restoration at level 50, I decided to try my hand at DW and Sword and Board, leveling them from the teens to the max while questing through pre-nerf VR content. Everything I could do with staves, I could do with melee (albeit with a much smaller margin for error) besides soloing dolmens, group delves, and world bosses. Things were looking up for my melee crit based Sorc, that is, until I got serious about group content and PVP and also installed a DPS meter add-on.

No matter what I tried, because of a combination of flat out more damaging skills, fight mechanics that favored range, and of course the all powerful Spell Symmetry, I was doing at least twice as much damage on average with my ranged magicka staff builds. I was disheartened, but at least I thought with a group PVE tank build I would benefit more from melee weapons. NOPE! Wrong again. Tanking with staves completely outperformed melee. My last hope was PVP. I just knew that I would excel with melee. Many, many hours later and there is literally no situation in PVP I can't handle better with staves. Not to mention crit builds in PVP are obsolete with the overpowered Impenetrable trait on armor.

So here I am, with a VR9 Khajit Sorcerer, using resto/destruction set up in Trials, PVP, and solo PVE. I didn't want to play this way, but I was forced to because I like to get every ounce of potential out of my character. I look at my racial passives and see 100% waste. I look at PTS server and see that they are upping magicka/stamina/hp soft caps. I look at high elf / breton / dark elf passives and think how I would not hesitate for a second to pay $20 to ZOS to be able to change my race and/or change my racial passives (aka still a Khajit, but a Khajit with 4% more elemental dmg, 10% more magicka, and 9% more magicka recovery).

I know from my previous topics that there are a lot of people very against what I suggest. I just don't understand why. Especially if they go the route of letting you pay for racial passive swaps, I just don't see any downside at all. ZOS gets more money and there are more happy people in the game. I know race changes aren't usually present in MMOs, but in the grand scheme of things, these racial passives are a large chunk of overall character potential. 4% damage, 10% magicka, and 9% magicka regen are HUGE compared to the big fat zero use I am getting out of Khajit passives. I also know people will suggest I reroll, but I'd quit before leveling another Sorc (I still have two classes I need to level), and I would hate to scrap a character I have spent over 300 hours on.

I agree totally. Mostly because every single build but a magica bonused race is completely useless. My build was a heavy armor wearing orc based on health and damage mitigation . neither of those are even viable in end game its useless and broken. Had we known that ZOS would make this imbalanced magica Light armor staved caster game,with a completely chaotic armor system . i would have definately chosen a different race. i bought the imperial edition so i could chose any race for my alliance in the end it turns out there is only two race choices Altmer, or Dunnmer.

Aeratus

Awdwyn wrote: »

I completely disagree from a RPG standpoint. Your character should have investment, not just as a set of skills but as a whole character. Your race is integral to who you are and using currency (ingame or real) to change that doesn't fit. Now, that being said, if there was a lore friendly method (quest line?) that could allow for a race change, then perhaps that could work.

Then give us the option to change the racial passives without changing race, or make all races equal at the endgame.

ebondeath

I would support:
Paid Race Change
Paid Faction Change
Paid Appearance/Name Change

I'm not sold on a racials change because they're called racials / racial passives for a reason, that being that they're tied to your character's race.
It might be interesting to see them as choosable secondary attributes in character creation. Like say, out of a pool of (random number) 15, you could choose any 3 for any race you chose. They would be separate from racials and slightly less potent. Just an idea off the top of my head.

hk11

I would pay for this just to be able to look at a different character whenever I get bored.

Aeratus

ebondeath wrote: »

I would support:
Paid Race Change
Paid Faction Change
Paid Appearance/Name Change

I'm not sold on a racials change because they're called racials / racial passives for a reason, that being that they're tied to your character's race.
It might be interesting to see them as choosable secondary attributes in character creation. Like say, out of a pool of (random number) 15, you could choose any 3 for any race you chose. They would be separate from racials and slightly less potent. Just an idea off the top of my head.

Obviously, if we can change race, then there would be no need to have a separate racials change. I was just saying that if the hardcore RP'ers object to being able to change race as too "unrealistic," then being able to change or equalize the racials would be an acceptable alternative to me.

Racials add more flavor, but gameplay comes first and it is plainly apparant that the racials are not balanced at the moment. Right now, it's basically a three tiered racial hierarchy

Top Tier (bonuses specialized for magicka)
- Altmer, Breton, Dunmer

Mid Tier (general purpose bonuses such as health, durability, potions)
- Imperial, Nord, Orc, Argonian

Bottom Tier (bonuses specialized for stamina builds)
- Khajiit, Bosmer, Redguard

poodlemasterb16_ESO

The racial passives are not that big a deal. Really. You have a Kajiit sorc you want to tank with. That's most of your problem.

I have em' all, well my Templars are crafters, but the 4 fighters I built are to find out what works best.

My Imperial DK is doing very well and although only level 21 is shaping up to be a fine "in your face " guy.

My Dunmer tough sorc is doing OK but as you have found out it's not ideal. He can go both ways and is a lot of fun with a big axe but I go all DPS when I group up. I'll pull the big axe out once in a while but frying stuff is what sorcs do best.

My Altmer vampire witch is my baby. Built as a 'glass canon' she shines, with an evil light of course, as a pure sorc. She lays down more smack than the Dunmer at 3 levels below him.

My Kajiit NB is a pure joy. He is only at level 18 now but I am having a lot of fun learning how to work an NB. Assassinating stuff is fun. My son has a VR2 Wood Elf NB he is very good with.

They are very different to fight and the small effects the passives have make very little difference.

Still I don't care. They sell the silly brown horse so selling you a racial change, which will help you very little, is no skin off my nose.

JessieColt

And what happens in 1-3 months down the road when Zenimax continues to address and tweak issues related to builds, like the Stamina issues some people are having, and you are unhappy again?

We have 6 Character slots for just such situations, were you can create, play, tweak, and learn what works for you as a player and what doesn't.

Personally, as a VR9 DW/NB/Vamp, I have no issues with stamina, and very rarely do I run out of stamina during a fight.

If you rely heavily on a Stamina build, then you should invest in the proper attributes, set gear, glyphs, and potions to ensure that you never drain your Stamina to the point where you cannot function.

Cody

idk about changing your characters race, but it would be cool to be able to get the racial passives of another race or 2(could be vet rank reward maybe? every rank you can pick a racial passive?)

Tonturri

I'd pay for a race/racials change. RP wise, what if my khajiit just has awful eyesight and can't crit on her life, but is a really strong swimmer?

Also, someone in the thread mentioned a lore reasons....In Greenshade, there's an Alchemist who (accidentally) turns himself - a dark elf or some such thing - into an Argonian. He was trying to become a khajiit, but got the potion wrong and ended up an Argonian instead. So, it's possible lore-wise I suppose.

Skyhawk462

An option to change race might possibly be beneficial...but to change racial Passives? This would basically make race selections meaningless and purely aesthetic. There should be a little planning and consequence involved in creating your character. If you really are unhappy with what you have created, why invest so much time with it in the first place? I am perfectly happy with the race and passives, but I sometimes wish I would have made a dragon knight instead of a night blade, but there were things that appealed to me about the class I chose to begin with.

yorzo

This would be a amazing cash shop item. Benefits some and harms no one, really hope to see this soon and other cash shop items like name changes.

Erock25

Skyhawk462 wrote: »

An option to change race might possibly be beneficial...but to change racial Passives? This would basically make race selections meaningless and purely aesthetic. There should be a little planning and consequence involved in creating your character. If you really are unhappy with what you have created, why invest so much time with it in the first place? I am perfectly happy with the race and passives, but I sometimes wish I would have made a dragon knight instead of a night blade, but there were things that appealed to me about the class I chose to begin with.

I know it was a long read but I think I address the 'why did I spend so much time on it in the first place' comment in the original post. Just to reiterate and expand upon it however, 1-50 was good times for my melee crit build. It wasn't until VR levels that I started branching out to look for alternatives. So then I leveled the staves up to 50 before then leveling up DW and 1h&s to try them out. This took me from about VR1 to VR5. It was around this point that I started jumping into competitive group PVE and getting serious about PVP, which was the final straw for me to decide that my race choice was wrong. So it took until VR5 (with all crafting maxed along the way) to really know that my build choice was wrong and that was around 300 hours that I do not want to scrap.

NerfEverything

I completely support anything that lets me change my race. Real money, in game currency, in game quest, customer support ticket. Just please let me change.

Like many others, I assumed the racial passives were all about equal and didn't give much thought. I picked the race I like the look of most. Unfortunately the passives absolutely do not synergize with my developed playstyle. At VR12, re-rolling is not an option.

claytonjhouserb14_ESO

Racial change? yes! Racial passive change? Ehh. This is highly unlikely for many a reason I am sure you are already aware of. It is called racial passive for a reason. It defines that race and to take it from that to add it to another makes an abomination

Evergnar

I hope we never see things like racial changes. What's next class changes? There has to be at least a little incentive to roll a new character. I don't want to see it taken further than the current respec system.

Fi'yra

Agree.. I want to change my DK tank to ORC rather than DE..

Erock25

claytonjhouserb14_ESO wrote: »

Racial change? yes! Racial passive change? Ehh. This is highly unlikely for many a reason I am sure you are already aware of. It is called racial passive for a reason. It defines that race and to take it from that to add it to another makes an abomination

I'd prefer full on race change as well but suggested the possibility of just passive changes because it seems like it would be easier to implement. With a full race change there needs to be a way to go back into the character creation appearance editor which seems awkward to me.

Evergnar wrote: »

I hope we never see things like racial changes. What's next class changes? There has to be at least a little incentive to roll a new character. I don't want to see it taken further than the current respec system.

Maybe I am a hypocrite for being against class changes (for the exact reason you mention), but I do not see how being able to change a race has anything to do with incentive to role a new character. Do you think people are expected to have multiple of each class with different races?

Evergnar

Erock25 wrote: »

Evergnar wrote: »

I hope we never see things like racial changes. What's next class changes? There has to be at least a little incentive to roll a new character. I don't want to see it taken further than the current respec system.

Maybe I am a hypocrite for being against class changes (for the exact reason you mention), but I do not see how being able to change a race has anything to do with incentive to role a new character. Do you think people are expected to have multiple of each class with different races?

No, only you
But yes, players are expected to reroll and try different class/race combinations.
If it makes you feel any better we all have characters that are maybe not perfect or choices we would have made differently (racial or otherwise) based on current broken stuff and imbalances.

OrangeTheCat

Why not just reroll? It's what I did.

Erock25

Evergnar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Evergnar wrote: »

I hope we never see things like racial changes. What's next class changes? There has to be at least a little incentive to roll a new character. I don't want to see it taken further than the current respec system.

Maybe I am a hypocrite for being against class changes (for the exact reason you mention), but I do not see how being able to change a race has anything to do with incentive to role a new character. Do you think people are expected to have multiple of each class with different races?

No, only you
But yes, players are expected to reroll and try different class/race combinations.
If it makes you feel any better we all have characters that are maybe not perfect or choices we would have made differently (racial or otherwise) based on current broken stuff and imbalances.

I do not think ZOS intended the races to be so different that they thought we would be rolling multiples of the same class.

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Why not just reroll? It's what I did.

Because I'm 300 hours in and I also want to level a templar and NB (DK is already in VR). I will not be spending any more time leveling a Sorc and am just sitting back, hoping for a race change option.

I would love a dev response. Even something as simple as acknowledging the fact that this is something they are thinking about adding.

Mondo

I really would like to play another Race but i have to use Khajit or Bosmer..... and i really really want to be a little blonde Aldmer Girl with a big bubble butt!

I support Race Change

Welka

The only thing I can see happening, is a possible appearance change upon finishing the thieves quest line. Pretty much like in Skyrim at the Cistern.

But race change doesn't make sense whatsoever

nerevarine1138

No.

You made a choice. Choices should be important. And most importantly, if you didn't pre-order the game to get the any-race-any-alliance bonus, changing your race changes your loyalties and creates a whole mess.