Veteran Faction Zones Going To Easy-Mode

Innocente

While I certainly understand the hue and cry to make the faction veteran zones easier, I think it is a big mistake.

My static duo playing partner and I were looking forward to the increased difficulty of the veteran zones, since we pretty much decimate everything in the core 1-50 content. We will now have nothing to look forward to in ESO gameplay for a long time, if we last that long.

It is questionable as to whether we will stay on with ESO; this game is great as a single-player game. Not so great as a multiplayer game; and that is what we like to play.

I am sure lots of folks will be happy with the change (if they do not get mind numbingly bored from the easy-mode repetitive questing). To those folks, I wish you well.

Kind of sad. I suspect I know what my partner's response to this news is going to be.

OFC_it

Well thank you. I wish you well also.

Digiman

Innocente wrote: »

While I certainly understand the hue and cry to make the faction veteran zones easier, I think it is a big mistake.

My static duo playing partner and I were looking forward to the increased difficulty of the veteran zones, since we pretty much decimate everything in the core 1-50 content. We will now have nothing to look forward to in ESO gameplay for a long time, if we last that long.

It is questionable as to whether we will stay on with ESO; this game is great as a single-player game. Not so great as a multiplayer game; and that is what we like to play.

I am sure lots of folks will be happy with the change (if they do not get mind numbingly bored from the easy-mode repetitive questing). To those folks, I wish you well.

Kind of sad. I suspect I know what my partner's response to this news is going to be.

Sadley numbers matter more and you don't really matter when in the long scheme of things of getting subscribers to play this game. Honestly most go my the creed of reward being in time risk or difficulty. This games VR has failed to provide an enticing reward to keep those paying to play and them returning to their old MMO to keep investing in them.

If you think your money matters to you or your partner as you easily go through content together then think again as the main cross section of customers are single player ES franchise fans.

I am for nerfing the difficulty of VR content cause quite frankly this game is not alt friendly nor is it really rewarding to plow through it. Hell I would wish a slight breeze would kill most mobs to sate my rage at the constant bugs and lack of appreciation Zenimax has given its loyal customers and hope you find a group game both you and your partner will enjoy.

But at them moment your current thread to garner sympathy for loyal customers who pay premium for game that has two scheduled maintenance days I truly hope will fall on deaf ears. It's not that you are mean or even terrible in my eyes, but at this moment three 3 months after the launch of this game and its problem I just pray for something door opening easy.

Mud_Puppy

Casuals always win.

MKLS

If you are playing as a duo the content will obviously be easy for you - if this is the case it is hardly fair to ask all the players that play solo to put up with a difficulty level that is too hard for them so that 2 players doing it get a reasonable level of difficulty.

If you are not playing as a duo - simply playing as 2 solo players on different maps - then please reply as I have misread your post.

Btw I often play as a duo on the veteran levels (which judging by the last post by the devs suggests that was what the vet areas were tweaked for) and they are really good fun - personally I love the vet areas - but as a solo player they are a lot slower and less forgiving of mistakes and sub optimal builds so I can understand why many players wanted them made easier.

BTW If you are worried content is too easy - take some armor off / don't use pots or food / and keep healing spells off your skill bar to increase it - increasing difficulty is easy for an individual player to do.

Innocente

MKLS, a Static Duo is a pair of players that are doing the content together. We stay in sync on the quests and content so we are able to experience as much as possible as a team. In general, we do not play apart. Except, of course, when forced to do so by Zenimax's mind-boggling decision to force players to do certain content solo with NO grouping options at all.

It is now obvious the Zenimax is moving ESO more to a Single-Player game that you pay a monthly fee (plus the box price) to play. As an MMO player, that is actually moving in the wrong direction to retain my subscription, or my friend's.

Not saying it is a bad move, it just makes the game no longer a good one for us. Makes it a better one for Single Player gamers.

Corew

As a duo you would have facerolled it anyway, just saying.

Innocente

Perhaps. But, at least I may have had to use some of my heals every so often!

Partner is a Sorcerer Tank/DPS, I play Templar Healer/DPS.

KariTR

It isn't difficult solo.

Some things have me beat - random Daedra spawns of three usually, though I still have a go - but as I said in another thread, with so many skills at my fingertips I find the combat easier now than I did (do) at <L15.

I wasn't finished with my old MMO when ESO launched, but came here to experience it before the dumbing down. I have been lucky in that so far I have managed to stay just ahead of the steamroller that flattened Doshia et al, but it looks as if it may overtake me next week.

I had a three-month recurring and thought I had more time. I cancelled that sub last night and will wait till August to see if it is worth taking another month.

AlienSlof

As a player who plays solo, but also has a character I played paired with a friend, I both agree with you and don't at the same time. What's needed is a choice - not just for this, but also for forced group or forced solo content. Choices are a good thing and mean that more players get the things they want = everyone wins.

I'm not a programmer, though I have modded many games - what this needs is some kind of 'smart code' that can detect a group of players and ramp up the difficulty depending on the numbers in that group. I've played games at LAN parties that do this. Not sure how easy it would be in a game of this scale, but certainly would be better than just forced group, forced solo, forced difficulty.

Innocente

Alien, I agree that choice would be better. Sadly, Zenimax did not write the game engine code (it is Hero Engine; same as SWTOR), so they really have no skill onboard to make such in-depth changes. Modifying the difficulty is about the best they can do. I mean, look at their solution to phase excluded groups: notification that the instance is 'solo'?!?! What use is that to anyone.

Asawasa

Innocente wrote: »

While I certainly understand the hue and cry to make the faction veteran zones easier, I think it is a big mistake.

My static duo playing partner and I were looking forward to the increased difficulty of the veteran zones, since we pretty much decimate everything in the core 1-50 content. We will now have nothing to look forward to in ESO gameplay for a long time, if we last that long.

It is questionable as to whether we will stay on with ESO; this game is great as a single-player game. Not so great as a multiplayer game; and that is what we like to play.

I am sure lots of folks will be happy with the change (if they do not get mind numbingly bored from the easy-mode repetitive questing). To those folks, I wish you well.

Kind of sad. I suspect I know what my partner's response to this news is going to be.

until you have experienced how broken vet content is currently then don't make rash judgments. there are good reasons why many people would rather grind for hours in craglorn than have to put up with vet zones as they are now.

here are some reasons vet zones are just bad:

1) its soooooo slow to gain vet ranks. you have to complete everything in one zone just to get to the next rank. and that is just for the first 5 VR. starting from V5 onwards even doing everything would get you close to the next rank. i like to quest usually but Vet content made me hate it and love grinding instead.

2) you get much better rewards from the craglorn grind. its very similar to farming public dungeons in that i can get lot of blues and purples. very rarely would i get a blue from the vet quests and never any purples.

3) storm atronachs, gargoyles, and other mobs are just too powerful. hope you love dying because you will do that alot in vet. you go from decimating mobs to getting decimated. everything is faster, hits harder, and is tougher to kill.

4) because of 1-3 you don't see alot of people in vet zones. prepare to just accept the fact that group of mobs are going to kill you and try to avoid them or run thru them as far as you can before they kill you. again you are going to die alot. bring stacks of soul gems.

MKLS

1) its soooooo slow to gain vet ranks. you have to complete everything in one zone just to get to the next rank. and that is just for the first 5 VR. starting from V5 onwards even doing everything would get you close to the next rank. i like to quest usually but Vet content made me hate it and love grinding instead.

I will start by saying I am biased as I like the Vet zones as I enjoy questing - but I'm happy with 1 zone being 1 vet level - I have just dinged V3 and I've still got about half of the V1 quests for the total area ie I'm about 30/55 - I haven't done any in the V2 area quests apart from a 1 boss and a dungeon and I've completed the 4 V3 main quest lines that Cadwell needs you to do to finish the V3 area but no other quests at all.

So if you just wanted to do Cadwells quests ie the main story lines to each area to get the skill points you would definitely still need to do dungeon runs, Craglorn, the daily PVE quests in the PVP area or pure PVP to stay at the correct levels - but if you wanted to do the entire area and get the achievement I don't see much problem with that - certainly at the lower vet levels.

Higher vet levels I will probably go and do the PVE dailys in the PVP area and Craglorn as well as questing but for me thats no hardship as I get more places to pick stuff up

PVP area dungeons are great as a duo when you are V1 ish as you have a better chance and 2 pairs of eyes looking for threats even if you are not traditionally a keen PVP player - off peak times recommended.

Edit - Reread original quote

Phinix1

Digiman wrote: »

Sadley numbers matter more and you don't really matter when in the long scheme of things of getting subscribers to play this game. Honestly most go my the creed of reward being in time risk or difficulty. This games VR has failed to provide an enticing reward to keep those paying to play and them returning to their old MMO to keep investing in them.

While likely correct, you only serve to illustrate what an insanely BAD decision this was from a business standpoint. The problem was never the difficulty, which is perfect after they ALREADY nerfed it in an earlier patch. The problem has ALWAYS been just as you say, a lack of unique and rewarding content and loot drops.

They could have done a lot of things here. They COULD have added unique BIND ON PICKUP gear and vanity pets and items. They could have added new inter-faction NPC hubs you could gain rep with to get unique gear, housing, auction house access, etc. They COULD have sprinkled in some faction-unique content in the vet zones (PSIJIIC GUILD ANYONE), but no, what do the bean counters do?

They rush to knee-jerk ruining the fun of the challenging content (which is already too easy in most cases) which will lose them more subscribers than it will gain them without doing these other things.

It is like they ignored all the feedback and suggestions and just reacted with the easiest, cheapest, least creative option without any consideration for the damage it would do to the game.

The stupification of the MMO industry to cater to vocal fire-standers truly makes me sick.

Ojustaboo

MKLS wrote: »

BTW If you are worried content is too easy - take some armor off / don't use pots or food / and keep healing spells off your skill bar to increase it - increasing difficulty is easy for an individual player to do.

That suggestion has popped up numerous times in the past few hrs and I hate it.

I bought this game based in what Zenimax said, that included hard content. I should not be expected to play through level 1 to 49, learn skills, learn crafting, then not use half of it because Zenimax hasn't got the content to make use of it.

That suggestion is just as annoying to me and many others as you would find it if I said to you that if you find content too hard, respec or find a group.

Arsenic_Touch

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

Casuals always win.

Which is funny because when games hemorrhage subscribers, the leading cause of the bleed is "it's too easy"

Phinix1

Asawasa wrote: »

until you have experienced how broken vet content is currently then don't make rash judgments. there are good reasons why many people would rather grind for hours in craglorn than have to put up with vet zones as they are now.

here are some reasons vet zones are just bad:

1) its soooooo slow to gain vet ranks. you have to complete everything in one zone just to get to the next rank. and that is just for the first 5 VR. starting from V5 onwards even doing everything would get you close to the next rank. i like to quest usually but Vet content made me hate it and love grinding instead.

2) you get much better rewards from the craglorn grind. its very similar to farming public dungeons in that i can get lot of blues and purples. very rarely would i get a blue from the vet quests and never any purples.

Simply not true! Have you actually done vet content after they raised all the XP levels? I hit vet 6 just doing solo delves and dolmens while skyshard hunting in the first tier. You do NOT get more XP from craglorn. The anomalies and other group evens give an average 22k XP. You get an average 50k to 80k XP or more from doing a SINGLE solo dungeon boss achievement in vet content. ~50k the first time you do a dolmen. 50k to 80k for each world boss.

If anything I level too fast! I was going to make a new set of gear at vet 7 but just running around skyshard hunting I am already 2/3 to vet 8.

Asawasa wrote: »

3) storm atronachs, gargoyles, and other mobs are just too powerful. hope you love dying because you will do that alot in vet. you go from decimating mobs to getting decimated. everything is faster, hits harder, and is tougher to kill.

There are one or two types of mobs that you actually MIGHT have to get one or two other players to help with in an online game, and that is perceived as a DOWN side? Seriously, I solo veteran 10 world bosses at veteran level 7 using an ultimate and a crowd control ability. I can't believe this is really what the industry has come to, that if ANYTHING requires getting a couple people to help with in an ONLINE game, we have to remove the fun and challenging aspect of the entire game. But that's just me. I used to LIKE online games.

Asawasa wrote: »

4) because of 1-3 you don't see alot of people in vet zones. prepare to just accept the fact that group of mobs are going to kill you and try to avoid them or run thru them as far as you can before they kill you. again you are going to die alot. bring stacks of soul gems.

1) It is summer vacation.
2) Several long-anticipated rival games just released.
3) Craglorn is no more populated than the veteran zones.

nawlinzbilly

Innocente wrote: »

While I certainly understand the hue and cry to make the faction veteran zones easier, I think it is a big mistake.

My static duo playing partner and I were looking forward to the increased difficulty of the veteran zones, since we pretty much decimate everything in the core 1-50 content. We will now have nothing to look forward to in ESO gameplay for a long time, if we last that long.

It is questionable as to whether we will stay on with ESO; this game is great as a single-player game. Not so great as a multiplayer game; and that is what we like to play.

I am sure lots of folks will be happy with the change (if they do not get mind numbingly bored from the easy-mode repetitive questing). To those folks, I wish you well.

Kind of sad. I suspect I know what my partner's response to this news is going to be.

Jessica said, that "SOLO" play in veteran zones would be easier. If you're going to make post about how you don't like it, at least state all the facts!!

Ojustaboo

nawlinzbilly wrote: »

show previous quotes

Innocente wrote: »

While I certainly understand the hue and cry to make the faction veteran zones easier, I think it is a big mistake.

My static duo playing partner and I were looking forward to the increased difficulty of the veteran zones, since we pretty much decimate everything in the core 1-50 content. We will now have nothing to look forward to in ESO gameplay for a long time, if we last that long.

It is questionable as to whether we will stay on with ESO; this game is great as a single-player game. Not so great as a multiplayer game; and that is what we like to play.

I am sure lots of folks will be happy with the change (if they do not get mind numbingly bored from the easy-mode repetitive questing). To those folks, I wish you well.

Kind of sad. I suspect I know what my partner's response to this news is going to be.

Jessica said, that "SOLO" play in veteran zones would be easier. If you're going to make post about how you don't like it, at least state all the facts!!

I thought their post was fine.

I haven't read that vet levels scale to different difficulties depending on goup size, therefore if they are making it so that the masses can solo, its pretty obvious it will be a faceroll in a group.

Hence I share the OPs concerns

Phinix1

nawlinzbilly wrote: »

Jessica said, that "SOLO" play in veteran zones would be easier.

ZOS! HEAR ME!

Here is your out! Use this to correct this terrible mistake before you make it. Make SOLO content easier if you must, but let me define what solo content you should reserve this to:

QUEST-based solo content and progression content you cannot group for. That is the ONLY thing you should touch to avoid ruining what makes this game fun which will lose you more subscribers than it saves.

If people then can't be bothered to get some people together to do dolmens or world bosses in an ONLINE GAME, let them leave. They will be the minority that pay a subscription to do so.

flintstone

Innocente wrote: »

While I certainly understand the hue and cry to make the faction veteran zones easier, I think it is a big mistake.

My static duo playing partner and I were looking forward to the increased difficulty of the veteran zones, since we pretty much decimate everything in the core 1-50 content. We will now have nothing to look forward to in ESO gameplay for a long time, if we last that long.

It is questionable as to whether we will stay on with ESO; this game is great as a single-player game. Not so great as a multiplayer game; and that is what we like to play.

I am sure lots of folks will be happy with the change (if they do not get mind numbingly bored from the easy-mode repetitive questing). To those folks, I wish you well.

Kind of sad. I suspect I know what my partner's response to this news is going to be.

Key word "partner".........most people that are saying vet content is to hard don't have a partner. Funny how the game seems so easy for you guys that always have help.

Help is NOT just around the corner at vet level 5-10........the zones are nearly empty of other players. (of course it wouldn't be so bad for you).

In other words, right or wrong, they have to do something to get some people into these zones.

tordr86b16_ESO

let's just face it, the majority of players playing eso are casuals so why should they keep a brick wall up ? it's only bleeding subs and we have seen that. three of my trading guilds have gone almost inactive, there is practically only two left that are somewhat active but that might change anytime soon.

edit, pure speculation:

or they simply haven't figured out a way to solve the issue with medium and heavy armor so they are just going to nerf the content to accommodate "those other builds".

Cogo

its just now. on 1 month we gonan argue about OP nightblades in 2H weapon 7 pieces of heavy armor killing everyone in Cyro :-p

Cogo

I WAS worried about this easy mode BLAH! But I think....they tested the water with this post....and as you can read....quiter alot was against it.

those who where for it....had intersting reasons.

" I want faster lvl for my alts" ....... thatss thinking about the game right? heh

Ragekniv

Great news for the solo players! Thank you Zenimax!

flintstone

A hireling (follower) type of system would have fixed the whole mess for me. Stuck?.........tired of waiting a half hour for someone to come along (if your lucky).......go hire some cheap help!....send him away when your do with him.

Cogo

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

show previous quotes

Asawasa wrote: »

until you have experienced how broken vet content is currently then don't make rash judgments. there are good reasons why many people would rather grind for hours in craglorn than have to put up with vet zones as they are now.

here are some reasons vet zones are just bad:

1) its soooooo slow to gain vet ranks. you have to complete everything in one zone just to get to the next rank. and that is just for the first 5 VR. starting from V5 onwards even doing everything would get you close to the next rank. i like to quest usually but Vet content made me hate it and love grinding instead.

2) you get much better rewards from the craglorn grind. its very similar to farming public dungeons in that i can get lot of blues and purples. very rarely would i get a blue from the vet quests and never any purples.

Simply not true! Have you actually done vet content after they raised all the XP levels? I hit vet 6 just doing solo delves and dolmens while skyshard hunting in the first tier. You do NOT get more XP from craglorn. The anomalies and other group evens give an average 22k XP. You get an average 50k to 80k XP or more from doing a SINGLE solo dungeon boss achievement in vet content. ~50k the first time you do a dolmen. 50k to 80k for each world boss.

If anything I level too fast! I was going to make a new set of gear at vet 7 but just running around skyshard hunting I am already 2/3 to vet 8.

show previous quotes

Asawasa wrote: »

3) storm atronachs, gargoyles, and other mobs are just too powerful. hope you love dying because you will do that alot in vet. you go from decimating mobs to getting decimated. everything is faster, hits harder, and is tougher to kill.

There are one or two types of mobs that you actually MIGHT have to get one or two other players to help with in an online game, and that is perceived as a DOWN side? Seriously, I solo veteran 10 world bosses at veteran level 7 using an ultimate and a crowd control ability. I can't believe this is really what the industry has come to, that if ANYTHING requires getting a couple people to help with in an ONLINE game, we have to remove the fun and challenging aspect of the entire game. But that's just me. I used to LIKE online games.

show previous quotes

Asawasa wrote: »

4) because of 1-3 you don't see alot of people in vet zones. prepare to just accept the fact that group of mobs are going to kill you and try to avoid them or run thru them as far as you can before they kill you. again you are going to die alot. bring stacks of soul gems.

1) It is summer vacation.
2) Several long-anticipated rival games just released.
3) Craglorn is no more populated than the veteran zones.

Yep! you got it.

In fact...I its kinda more then exapected on.

August....cyro works..more stuff out.

ESO is on track again.

tordr86b16_ESO

Cogo wrote: »

I WAS worried about this easy mode BLAH! But I think....they tested the water with this post....and as you can read....quiter alot was against it.

those who where for it....had intersting reasons.

" I want faster lvl for my alts" ....... thatss thinking about the game right? heh

quests should be marked as "solo" and be "easy". quests or places like the open dungeons should be in the mixed category of "solo / group". they designed the entire VR content to be group oriented which is the most stupendous idea i've ever seen.

Laura

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

Casuals always win.

it isn't casuals. I'm casual and I got through fine.

BADS always win.

Svann

I think the majority of the playerbase currently skips vet zones so if you think this will result in a mass exodus you are mistaken.

Personally, Im a medium armor DW NB so its pretty much all easy mode.

Audigy

Laura wrote: »

show previous quotes

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

Casuals always win.

it isn't casuals. I'm casual and I got through fine.

BADS always win.

I agree with what you said. I am a Casual as well and get along just fine. Sure I have my encounters where I wait a minute or two before I engage them with a passer bye, but to actually be able to heal someone or tank for them is a welcome change to my role as a support class in an MMO.

It reminded me about the early days at WOW and SWTOR, where a support was actually a help and not a burden to questing people.

I am quite worried what the future will bring for my role now. Will I be again be told to screw off as a healer or tank, just because AOE bombing doesn't work so well with me?

Will I again not be able to actually learn how to heal or tank, but then be demanded to be a professional in my role upon my first dungeon or trial? The learning curve at ESO was great, I felt that I always got something back from a fight and I assure you my first dungeon was horrible at 15 ^^

In my case I still have the bonus of 15 years MMO experience, but what about those who don't? What will happen to them at VR dungeons and trials? How much blame will they get for just being poor?

I doubt that people will accept their poor performance and try to understand that they couldn't learn the game due the lack of challenges and groups in the open world. At least in WOW nobody respects or understand this, that's why it became such a mess over there and I am sadly very confident that the community at ESO will turn hostile as well to those that didn't had the chance to learn yet.


History repeats itself, a company does promise a different game and then pulls the Blizzard out of their heads and risks going F2P as it loses all the loyal customers over the nerfs. I hope it wont come to this, but I would lie if I said I am positive about the future of ESO now and this is coming from a person that defended ESO for 3 months and more since the Beta invite came.