VETERAN SYSTEM CHANGES PREVIEW

Alphashado

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117132/veteran-system-changes-preview

Bravo! A step in the right direction

Slash8915

Eh, all that says is they are making VR content easier. Nothing "new". It will be nice for the people that are just coming into veteran zones.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Itll be nice for all the players that quit and would come back for this.

Ohioastro

...and it'll remove a challenge for the people who like that. And it'll remove incentives for grouping. It is what it is, and MMO players have always really wanted extremely easy solo gameplay. I expected this, but it's still a loss for some of us.

Junkogen

Neato.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Ohioastro wrote: »

...and it'll remove a challenge for the people who like that. And it'll remove incentives for grouping. It is what it is, and MMO players have always really wanted extremely easy solo gameplay. I expected this, but it's still a loss for some of us.

Agreed. You want to talk about boring leveling? Take the amount of veteran xp you need and add in easy content. The only hope i have is the fact they said this is the first step. Otherwise im not exactly sure what i would have to look forward to.

Alphashado

Ohioastro wrote: »

...and it'll remove a challenge for the people who like that. And it'll remove incentives for grouping. It is what it is, and MMO players have always really wanted extremely easy solo gameplay. I expected this, but it's still a loss for some of us.

You will still need to group for map objectives, Dolmen, Zone Bosses, and VR dungeons. This may not be perfect, but I feel like it's a step in the right direction and offers a compromise that many people have been hoping for. If this brings a population to the VR zones similar to the 1-50 zones, then I am behind it 100%

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Alphashado wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

...and it'll remove a challenge for the people who like that. And it'll remove incentives for grouping. It is what it is, and MMO players have always really wanted extremely easy solo gameplay. I expected this, but it's still a loss for some of us.

You will still need to group for map objectives, Dolmen, Zone Bosses, and VR dungeons. This may not be perfect, but I feel like it's a step in the right direction and offers a compromise that many people have been hoping for. If this brings a population to the VR zones similar to the 1-50 zones, then I am behind it 100%

While i haven't hit the upper vr zones so you maybe right there, i strongly disagree with it at the lower VR levels. I normally play with 1 other person. We have 2 manned all content up to VR5, except obviously dungeons. If you make them easier, i don't see why you would need a group.

Akhratos

Whatever they do, having vr alliances content to be more challenging than the endgame content was not a good choice.

The next step they should make is buffing vet dungeons, craglorn content and trials (those 17mins trials are a shame imo for it being endgame).

And of course, buff the reward for dungeons (both normal and vr), so you can have your challenge in the proper places and where grouping is not that much of an issue like it is in vr1-10 zones due to phasing.

Oh, and dont just nerf vr1-10 all the same. Elite mobs like gargoyles being stronger and ccimmune than world bosses is a design flaw that wont fix a global nerf.

apostate9

Ohioastro wrote: »

...and it'll remove a challenge for the people who like that. And it'll remove incentives for grouping. It is what it is, and MMO players have always really wanted extremely easy solo gameplay. I expected this, but it's still a loss for some of us.

A loss of...randomly scaled trash mobs with 500,000 HP and white gear?

Alphashado

Archaon wrote: »

Whatever they do, having vr alliances content to be more challenging than the endgame content was not a good choice.

The next step they should make is buffing vet dungeons, craglorn content and trials (those 17mins trials are a shame imo for it being endgame).

And of course, buff the reward for dungeons (both normal and vr), so you can have your challenge in the proper places and where grouping is not that much of an issue like it is in vr1-10 zones due to phasing.

Oh, and dont just nerf vr1-10 all the same. Elite mobs like gargoyles being stronger and ccimmune than world bosses is a design flaw that wont fix a global nerf.

I agree with some of that. But while this change will offer a good foundation (bench) to work up from, I don't agree that VR dungeons need to be ramped up any. They are already more difficult that Craglorn 4 man dungeons, and aside from a skill point the first time through, offer very little in the way of rewards.

I believe they should make sure that group content is offering incentive to repeat it. Like a decent amount of XP for repeat dungeon runs and a wider variety of loot on dungeon bosses. Anything from unique gear sets to rare recipes or cosmetic costumes etc.

I also believe there should be some smaller areas that are designed for difficult solo play with decent rewards for those that enjoy very challenging solo play. But either way, I think this could go a very long ways towards rebuilding a portion of the lost population and it's a good foundation to re evaluate the future.

Shiroro

Ohioastro wrote: »

...and it'll remove a challenge for the people who like that. And it'll remove incentives for grouping. It is what it is, and MMO players have always really wanted extremely easy solo gameplay. I expected this, but it's still a loss for some of us.

Incentives for grouping in VR content? How long has it been since you've been to the VR zones? There's nobody there to group up with.

Normal solo questing should not be a struggle in an MMO.

Ohioastro

apostate9 wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

...and it'll remove a challenge for the people who like that. And it'll remove incentives for grouping. It is what it is, and MMO players have always really wanted extremely easy solo gameplay. I expected this, but it's still a loss for some of us.

A loss of...randomly scaled trash mobs with 500,000 HP and white gear?

A loss of fun puzzles for me to solve with my character, to be replaced with more things that are just mechanical tasks.

Madval

Nice !

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Archaon wrote: »

Whatever they do, having vr alliances content to be more challenging than the endgame content was not a good choice.

The next step they should make is buffing vet dungeons, craglorn content and trials (those 17mins trials are a shame imo for it being endgame).

And of course, buff the reward for dungeons (both normal and vr), so you can have your challenge in the proper places and where grouping is not that much of an issue like it is in vr1-10 zones due to phasing.

Oh, and dont just nerf vr1-10 all the same. Elite mobs like gargoyles being stronger and ccimmune than world bosses is a design flaw that wont fix a global nerf.

You actually have it backwards. All those things will need a nerfing. They are making VR content solo for everyone. Soon, every tom *** and Harry will be v12 not really having done anything other then spam AOE. And they will be bored. They will look around and say.... What can't i do yet... And the next wave of nerf this will begin.

VagabondAngel

I ran a half-marathon in Scotland once. Holy crap that was tough... felt mighty proud at the finish line though. (No idea how people manage a full marathon... running it anyway.)

Maybe if I'd waited a while, they would have reduced the distance to only 10 miles... or laid on a bus service or something. I mean, I'd have got to the finish line and that's all that matters, right?

Alphashado

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Whatever they do, having vr alliances content to be more challenging than the endgame content was not a good choice.

The next step they should make is buffing vet dungeons, craglorn content and trials (those 17mins trials are a shame imo for it being endgame).

And of course, buff the reward for dungeons (both normal and vr), so you can have your challenge in the proper places and where grouping is not that much of an issue like it is in vr1-10 zones due to phasing.

Oh, and dont just nerf vr1-10 all the same. Elite mobs like gargoyles being stronger and ccimmune than world bosses is a design flaw that wont fix a global nerf.

You actually have it backwards. All those things will need a nerfing. They are making VR content solo for everyone. Soon, every tom *** and Harry will be v12 not really having done anything other then spam AOE. And they will be bored. They will look around and say.... What can't i do yet... And the next wave of nerf this will begin.

They aren't making it that much faster, only making it less difficult. VR content is still 2/3s of the game before you even get to Craglorn which is another 2 VRs to attain. People may be more incentivised to push forward now, but it's still the same amount of content. 2/3s of the game.

DeLindsay

The comment here are a perfect example of how some people just will never be happy. There has been constant nerd raging over the difficulty of VR since 1.2 and the idea that players are being forced to group when they were able to solo before. ZoS gives a teeny tiny sliver of what's to come and already people are complaining it's just going to be a watered down, face roll VR zones.

Thank you ZoS for putting out a thread about coming VR changes that we all know you weren't ready for but did so out of pressure via the forums.

Akhratos

Alphashado wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Whatever they do, having vr alliances content to be more challenging than the endgame content was not a good choice.

The next step they should make is buffing vet dungeons, craglorn content and trials (those 17mins trials are a shame imo for it being endgame).

And of course, buff the reward for dungeons (both normal and vr), so you can have your challenge in the proper places and where grouping is not that much of an issue like it is in vr1-10 zones due to phasing.

Oh, and dont just nerf vr1-10 all the same. Elite mobs like gargoyles being stronger and ccimmune than world bosses is a design flaw that wont fix a global nerf.

I agree with some of that. But while this change will offer a good foundation (bench) to work up from, I don't agree that VR dungeons need to be ramped up any. They are already more difficult that Craglorn 4 man dungeons, and aside from a skill point the first time through, offer very little in the way of rewards.

I believe they should make sure that group content is offering incentive to repeat it. Like a decent amount of XP for repeat dungeon runs and a wider variety of loot on dungeon bosses. Anything from unique gear sets to rare recipes or cosmetic costumes etc.

I also believe there should be some smaller areas that are designed for difficult solo play with decent rewards for those that enjoy very challenging solo play. But either way, I think this could go a very long ways towards rebuilding a portion of the lost population and it's a good foundation to re evaluate the future.

Yeah I missed to add the need of better rewards for that content they should buff. It is garbage right now, so theres no doubt if they ever decide to buff it

You are right also about vr dungeons being harder than Craglorn ones (same for everything vr1-10vsCraglorn) but not all of the VR1-10 dungeons are that hard imho (there are great gaps between some). If they add better loot and replay value they would be in the good way. Trials, the difficulty is non-existant at best.

About the specific solo area, it would be wonderful if we could go back to Coldharbour with the Meridia still repopulated (so she can also congratulate us saving the world thrice) and have some daily quest for vr12 in there.

isengrimb16_ESO

Oh, thank all the gods and devils that sapient/sentient creatures ever made up anywhere in the universe for this.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

The comment here are a perfect example of how some people just will never be happy. There has been constant nerd raging over the difficulty of VR since 1.2 and the idea that players are being forced to group when they were able to solo before. ZoS gives a teeny tiny sliver of what's to come and already people are complaining it's just going to be a watered down, face roll VR zones.

Thank you ZoS for putting out a thread about coming VR changes that we all know you weren't ready for but did so out of pressure via the forums.

I'm not sure what you mean by some people. It is the same people, only now the sides have flipped. For example before @Alphashado‌ was complaining that VR was to hard. He is now posting he looks forward to the changes. Before I was posting I didn't want VR to change, now I am complaining it is. I mean, I was happy before?

The way you said it, is like you think this forum is all of one mind. It ain't.

DungeonGrind

Pressure via the forums...? People have been crying over the lack of communication, so a decision is made to throw us a tid bit of information... ZOS can't win...

I don't disagree with your post, it may be truthful, but calling them out (as a community) from both sides of the fence is seemingly unfair.

isengrimb16_ESO

Alphashado wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

...and it'll remove a challenge for the people who like that. And it'll remove incentives for grouping. It is what it is, and MMO players have always really wanted extremely easy solo gameplay. I expected this, but it's still a loss for some of us.

You will still need to group for map objectives, Dolmen, Zone Bosses, and VR dungeons. This may not be perfect, but I feel like it's a step in the right direction and offers a compromise that many people have been hoping for. If this brings a population to the VR zones similar to the 1-50 zones, then I am behind it 100%

You don't need to formally group for dolmens, etc, you just want to pack up.

I love packing, not so much grouping, because I'm shy and don't think I'm good enough for groups.

I'll be looking forward to playing my V1 nightbow again, though.

VagabondAngel

DeLindsay wrote: »

...but did so out of pressure via the forums.

Most active players don't come on the forums. Its risky to assume that feedback on this forum, which at best is from an extreme vocal minority, is in any way representative of the wider view.

I can only speak from my own experience of course, so I will... I soloed a VR 2 public dungeon 2 nights ago (Bonesnap - in DC VR zone) and only needed a bit of help from 1 other player to finish the boss. Yesterday I soloed a VR2 dolmen. With a NB wearing all medium armour.... and I am by no means a "pro".

But yeah, a lot of noise does get attention eventually.

Audigy

The issue with all nerfs is that the road and this is what matters in an MMO will be shorten while no new parts of it are build.

Right now VR 12 does take a few months, with the changes it might take a week or two - who knows. Every Casual and non Raider is now losing his or her content with the nerf, or what is there at VR 12 that isn't inside dungeons or trials?

People that cry about "too hard" "too long" never realize that they actually only hurt themselves with those nerfs. Ask yourself what you will do once you are VR 12?

There is nothing to do, the VR content is the max level content - nerfing it lowers your fun in the game, the long levity!

Did people learn nothing from Blizzards mistakes in the past 6 years? Do you honestly want an MMO where the only group content happens in raids and dungeons and solo players are forced to grind 5 or 10 daily quests for months and don't have anything else to do?

Seriously with your demands ESO is very close now to WOW and so far I have not heard any news about solo content in the works for ESO and I doubt there is anything coming soon. You need to realize that this isn't Skyrim where you an add a new mod once you are done with the content. You also cant increase the difficulty slider once you are through at easy...

This is an MMO and every content you dump down is content that you lose in the long run!

DeLindsay

Ok I will clarify. When the forums as a whole are blowing up since 1.2 about how hard VR content is and then ZoS puts a tidbit in about how it will be easier to solo soon, then players get upset because they think it'll be faceroll easy. ZoS can't win, they change something to make one half happy, then the other half gets upset. If they don't change something because one half is happy with it, the other half gets upset. Yes it's not a 50/50 split you can't seriously expect anyone to go through the forums and list every single player who has a voice against VR difficulty and for VR difficulty, besides the whole CoC issues with that.

Ohioastro

DeLindsay wrote: »

The comment here are a perfect example of how some people just will never be happy. There has been constant nerd raging over the difficulty of VR since 1.2 and the idea that players are being forced to group when they were able to solo before. ZoS gives a teeny tiny sliver of what's to come and already people are complaining it's just going to be a watered down, face roll VR zones.

Thank you ZoS for putting out a thread about coming VR changes that we all know you weren't ready for but did so out of pressure via the forums.

I don't want to be misunderstood here: I know why a lot of people want this. What I'm pointing out is that the desire to make the VR content easier is not universal. There will be a loss to some players and some play styles. That's very different from rage-quitting.

Alphashado

I don't think it's fair to assume this forum is the only means of feedback ZoS is getting or listening to. Every single player has a /feedback command, and ZoS encourages its use regularly.

VagabondAngel

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ok I will clarify. When the forums as a whole are blowing up since 1.2 about how hard VR content is and then ZoS puts a tidbit in about how it will be easier to solo soon, then players get upset because they think it'll be faceroll easy. ZoS can't win, they change something to make one half happy, then the other half gets upset. If they don't change something because one half is happy with it, the other half gets upset. Yes it's not a 50/50 split you can't seriously expect anyone to go through the forums and list every single player who has a voice against VR difficulty and for VR difficulty, besides the whole CoC issues with that.

I'm not upset, not at this point... call it a concern that they will nerf it to be too much like levels 1-50. This is VR - it should be representative of a certain level of skill, that being higher than the 'standard' levels. It should be hard....

I agree that a mud-crab shouldn't be harder to kill than Molag Bal but maybe Molag Bal was too easy...? If you get to VR1, you should feel proud of that. If you keep levelling to VR2 and beyond, you should earn that xp with your toon's virtual blood.

If it seems too hard or hectic, go spend some time in a busy alliance campaign, then return to your PvE zone; it may just seem like a cake-walk after that.

Dayv

Great news as far as I'm concerned and when I've tried it out I can hopefully persuade friends to rejoin.

Alphashado

VagabondAngel wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ok I will clarify. When the forums as a whole are blowing up since 1.2 about how hard VR content is and then ZoS puts a tidbit in about how it will be easier to solo soon, then players get upset because they think it'll be faceroll easy. ZoS can't win, they change something to make one half happy, then the other half gets upset. If they don't change something because one half is happy with it, the other half gets upset. Yes it's not a 50/50 split you can't seriously expect anyone to go through the forums and list every single player who has a voice against VR difficulty and for VR difficulty, besides the whole CoC issues with that.

I'm not upset, not at this point... call it a concern that they will nerf it to be too much like levels 1-50. This is VR - it should be representative of a certain level of skill, that being higher than the 'standard' levels. It should be hard....

I agree that a mud-crab shouldn't be harder to kill than Molag Bal but maybe Molag Bal was too easy...? If you get to VR1, you should feel proud of that. If you keep levelling to VR2 and beyond, you should earn that xp with your toon's virtual blood.

If it seems too hard or hectic, go spend some time in a busy alliance campaign, then return to your PvE zone; it may just seem like a cake-walk after that.

It very well may, and probably will for certain specs/builds. The most encouraging thing about it though is that people will be able to ditch those OP staff builds and go back to doing what they enjoy.

There is no doubt that the most powerful builds are going to make it seem easier. But at least we will get back to having some variety and maybe we will see something besides a staff on the backs of 90% of the VR player base. The stamina build disparity will still exist in meta content, but it will hopefully be a viable option again for questing.