Dear Zenimax, could you please improve the Forum polls?

DinoZavr · February 2023

Dear @ZOS_Kevin,
is this possible to make Forum engine to automatically add the "OTHER" option to the polls, posted by our dear fellow players?

Like posting a poll: Which direction a car can turn? - Left - Right
Would result in

Which direction a car can turn?
○ Left
○ Right
○ Other

Thanks.

ZOS_Kevin · February 2023

Hey there! Sorry, just want to clarify to make sure we understand the request. You do want it to add the "option" field automatically? So the idea is that there would always be an "other" field available?

Dr_Con · February 2023

Polls lose their validity for many reasons, but polls are not made invalid because they don't have an "Other" option.

examples:

this poll
vs
that poll

these polls evaluate the same thing and don't need an "other" option, the scale of yes, no, with an inclusion of indifferent is sufficient to share the idea, as is a simple yes/no.

I also do a series of topics where I have people nominate the sets they think are the worst, and then in a followup topic I post the sets that were nominated in the previous week. An "Other" option would make no sense here, the choices are selected from the previous topic and people need to write in their answer if the number of choices exceed 10.

Most polls themselves are corrupted by the OP, including an "Other" option won't stop people from making polls like:

Should Mara's balm be nerfed?

○Yes because I am sane

○No because I am a toxic set abuser who has no friends

Procedurally adding an "Other" option here doesn't make this poll any better- it would be best to make a guide/help topic for people read and refer to that can strengthen their polls rather than have it so an "Other" is an option in all posts. While it can strengthen some polls that are out there, not all polls need it.

DinoZavr · February 2023

Oh, thank you for responding, @ZOS_Kevin

My very idea is that during recent year the number of biased polls on this Forum had increased, i'd say, noticeably (while earlier the situation was fine, imho)
By presenting theirs biased variants (for example: Are Vampires evil? - Yes, very much - Yes, of course.) and leaving no "other" option, allowing to somehow disagree with OP, authors evade discussions, and, sometimes, deserved criticism.
There are no "disagree" button on the Forums (and i am sure this is for better), but polls with no alternatives, offering only OP biased points of view are not much healthy.
If "Other" could be attached automatically as the option this might be for good. Or am i missing something evident?
That's it.

Thanks Kevin. It's great you show such a great example of communication.

ZOS_Kevin · February 2023

Thanks for the feedback, DinoZavr. So with that clarification, we'll say this. We understand where you are coming from with how some forum polls are being presented. However, just as there are cases to add an other category, there are cases where not having that option is just as important. With that being said, we do think there is an opportunity to have some poll guidelines to better information everyone of polling choice options and how they can maximize the efficiency of their polls to get better feedback.

We'll take this to the team and work on something that address the need for helping others to produce more effective polling options.

DinoZavr · February 2023

@ZOS_Kevin
Many thanks, Kevin

Androrix · February 2023

@Dr_Con and @DinoZavr both have good points. If there was a poll that said choose between DC and DZ, I could not do it. I would like the "other" option. But I could also just say that in a comment.

I too have been frustrated at the slew of recent polls with biased phrasing. Folk have pointed out the lack of utility of those polls in comments, but as polls they were meaningless.

Hamfast · February 2023

I think I agree with Androrix for the most part... both have good points, and the biased polls are a waste...

I would point out to Dr_Con that the two polls you listed are not identical, one has an indifferent entry that could correspond to "Other"

I would say that there should be a default "Other" entry added to the polls, but it can be deleted of the creator of the poll chooses to do so, this way those making the biased polls would have to do the extra work of removing it, at which time ridicule would be in order.

ForzaRammer · February 2023

The responsibility for a fair poll should be on the guy who post the poll, not zos

TaSheen · February 2023

ForzaRammer wrote: »

The responsibility for a fair poll should be on the guy who post the poll, not zos

Yeah, that works so well, doesn't it?

phaneub17_ESO · February 2023

The polls I make, if I wanted an "other" I would put it in. While I can't speak for everyone else, I try to keep all my poll options unbiased and informed.

spartaxoxo · February 2023

There are very few poll types that shouldn't have a "other" option. Leaving it off in the vast majority of cases leads to a biased survey, significantly lowering its legitimacy. It is often left off by survey makers because they want to lead people to answer in the manner that they'd prefer, but when creating surveys as a general rule, one should do their best to avoid leading respondents to any answers as it biases the poll.

To make a good survey

Almost always include an "other" type response
Use neutral and clear wording.
Save the explanation of one's own answer for after the poll (leave it in the comments)

etc

Tandor · February 2023

Personally I'd rather see polls disabled altogether. I can't offhand think of one that served any better purpose than a simple thread begun by a poster expressing his own view on something and inviting others to comment would have done.

Agenericname · February 2023

Tandor wrote: »

Personally I'd rather see polls disabled altogether. I can't offhand think of one that served any better purpose than a simple thread begun by a poster expressing his own view on something and inviting others to comment would have done.

In the few cases where a poster asks the question in the form of a poll to be used for their own purposes, I think that theyre fine. When theyre asked in a such a manner that the information isn't for their own purposes, then they lose a lot of their utility.

Stx · February 2023

I think the perfect example of this was the recent poll posted about changing the Trifecta achievements to be easier. The poll had no option for “Don’t change them, or leave them as is”.

I don’t think adding other as an option automatically is the right solution. I think whenever a poll is posted like that, players either don’t respond to it so that it fades quickly, or just don’t vote at all and leave their comments in the thread like they have done with the Trifecta topic.

DinoZavr · February 2023

@Stx not only "leave it "as is"" is a valid option, but "increase difficulty" is also (imho) a quite reasonable option.
3 years ago after Elsweyr TehAsianGod and Liko pulled 85K..90K DPS. Nowadays SkinnyCheeks and RY do 130K DPS
also there are esologs.

ForzaRammer · February 2023

TaSheen wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

The responsibility for a fair poll should be on the guy who post the poll, not zos

Yeah, that works so well, doesn't it?

From my observation, about half the polls on forum are fair. So it’s not all bad.

You can also leave a comment to call out bias.

Carcamongus · February 2023

I believe it's better to focus on the validity of polls. If a poll has clearly biased options, the results should be understood as useless, or at best of questionable use. Having an "other" option won't save an awful poll. What players can do is simply comment but refrain from voting on polls like that: it'll be obvious the biased effort failed when there are way more (mostly negative) comments than votes.

On the other hand, polls are also an expression of one's voice, so mandating an "other" option would be forcing someone to say something they might not want. However, guidelines for good polls would indeed be very useful.

VaranisArano · February 2023

I've made a couple polls, and I'm not entirely sure I'd take them so seriously that we need guidelines on how to use them. To my mind, forum polls are about the same as regular posts when it comes to providing feedback, just with some added interactivity of voting to make it easier to quantify the numbers.

If it's a genuine question where ZOS wants the unbiased answer, they have the means to ask, either in their email surveys or in their own forum poll such as this one: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/600401/do-you-like-having-surprise-in-game-events/p1

I mean, my most recent poll was asking Rich Lambert's question about more/easier earnable cosmetics. But at the same time, if Mr. Lambert wants an answer to that, he can presumably ask his people to put the question in an email survey to the playerbase and get a whole lot of detailed feedback from way more people than my little forum poll will. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/627390/do-you-want-more-earnable-cosmetics-or-easier-earnable-cosmetics

On the flip side, my earlier polls were fun, little "Bah Humbug, which New Life/Jester's festival quest do you hate the most?" polls. Again, if the Devs want an answer to that question, they've got the data to answer which quest players run the least.

emilyhyoyeon · February 2023

Honestly I'm not sure why the forum polls are taken so seriously that people are bothered by some random person's poll having dumb options. They aren't official ZOS polls, so I don't see why it matters if someone wants to make a trolly poll.