WORST Nightbade Heal Change: Malevolent Offering

JiChaMa · October 2021

Malevolent Offering:

This ability and its morphs now have an upfront Magicka cost of 3510 and a residual Health cost of 1080 over 3 seconds, rather than a Health cost based on a mixture of your Spell Damage and Max Magicka over 8 seconds.
These abilities can now target yourself and allies, rather than only allies.
Reworded the tooltip for these skills, now with 100% more edge factor, to help you get the blood dripping when using the skill.

Shrewd Offering (morph): This ability now ranks up in cost reduction rather than 1.1% healing done, and its base cost has been reduced to 3240. The residual Health cost also lasts 1 second less causing it to drain less Health, to ensure its total cost is reduced to the expected level.

Developer Comment:
For a long time, these abilities have had relatively low engagement due to the fact that they costed purely Health and hurt the user more the higher their stats were, making it both deadly and un-advantageous to run in situations where you needed to stay alive. In addition, the health cost had low interplay with mechanics - such as cost reduction - and made it difficult to play around, leaving its core concept unsatisfying and untapped.

We've decided to switch this ability over to a Dual Cost skill with the brunt of its cost being on the Magicka side of things, and the rest of it filled in with Health (it equals the base 4590 burst heal cost that skills such as Rushed Ceremony have when you add them up!). In addition, we've allowed the heal to be self-targetable so the healer can keep themselves up in a situation of need and giving the class a much-needed reactive self-heal. Overall, we hope this helps the skill stand out as something unique and thematic to the class, with less overall restrictions and punishment on the caster.

In my opinion this is by far the worst change for nighblade healers in a really long time.

The current offering has a really nice and unique design.
It gives the nightblade heal something to stand out from the other healer classes.
Sacrificing your own health to heal group members. The higher your heal output, the higher the health cost.

Giving this skill a magicka cost completly ruins the skill and just streamlines it with all the other burst heals from the other classes.
Using your health instead of magicka is one of the strongest concepts you can do. Not using magicka or stamina in an icd intervall means a huge boost in sustain.
It doesn't work with cost reduction, which is good. Stamina cost reduction also doesn't work for magicka skills.
The Health cost of this skills makes the nighblade heal the sustain beast it is. And giving it a magicka cost is a HUGE nerf in most situations.
It is a high risk / high reward skill, what i really love as a concept.
Not every skill needs to be 100% beginner friendly imo.

PvP:
THIS SKILL is on of the top reasson why nighblade healers are so good, to not say dominating, in an organized pvp group enviroment.
I guess, it is just highly undervalued by the generall pvp community.
I have raided highly progressive as a main nightblade heal in pvp for years now. I know what i am talking about.
The better the group the better this skill.

PvE:
In a pve situation I can see this as a good change in terms of survivabilty of newer and beginner healer players.
But endgame groups don't choose healers by their single target burst heals, but their support potential.
Keeping up one or two hots is already enough to heal most incoming damage anyway. And damage peaks are not healed by single target burst heals but aoe burst heals like combat prayer.
So it doesn't really matter.

My Suggestion:
Make one of the both mophs cost magicka and keep the other one costing health like it is right now.
That would combine the best of both worlds and make this skill a really versatile and good healing skill with two good morph options, where you really have to think about which to take.
Good options for beginner and expert healers in all possible circumstances.

divnyi · October 2021

Strongly agree.

Better cost vs More power is a bad morph choice.

Health cost vs Magica cost is great morph choice.

Jameson18 · October 2021

While I'm excited to see a solid heal for Magblade, I'm in agreement with both of the above.

Edit: Clarification - Solid Self Heal

Tommy_The_Gun · October 2021

In general, I think it is a very bad change for a simple reason:

Malevolent Offering gives NB an ability to cast skill without using magicka or stamina. You are basically using your health bar to cast a skill.

^ That is something unique to a class and something that makes "a class". That is something that NB tanks or healers bring to a table. An extra "almost" free heals, because you are not using your offensive resources to cast an an ability. As a result, you have more resources to spend on other things - that you or your group can benefit from.

Malevolent Offering on PTS now costs magicka. I have tested it and the self - dot penalty is pretty much irrelevant (with very tiny amount of health recovery it is basically negated). Tbh. I got the impression that dot dmg penalty is there only for lore & flavour reasons.

This skill on PTS feels pretty much like yet another generic healing ability. We have plenty of those in ESO, so imho a very bad thing had happened. A certain class uniqueness has been taken away...

dinokstrunz · October 2021

As others as suggested very bad change. Making Magblade healer look and feel less unique.

Langeston · October 2021

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Malevolent Offering on PTS now costs magicka. I have tested it and the self - dot penThis skill on PTS feels pretty much like yet another generic healing ability. We have plenty of those in ESO, so imho a very bad thing had happened. A certain class uniqueness has been taken away...

I usually agree with most of what you have to say re: NBs, but this is one area where I strongly disagree.

Magblades have always been "unique" in that a restoration staff was basically a hard requirement in PVP (and even then your "burst heal" was likely to heal someone else instead of you.) Now, finally, I can use S&B, an Ice staff, or go double destro. The number of options that have been opened to PVP magblades is truly game-changing.

There's a reason all the other classes were given those "generic healing abilities" in the first place — it's because they're super useful and important for survival.

This change is fantastic for PVP. Magblades have needed a boost like this for a long time.

Irisa37 · October 2021

I can understand why healers are not that happy about this. The trouble is that something at least similar to this needs to be done for damage dealer magicka Nightblades. The lack of a burst heal really hurts my main (magblade) in PvP, so I have to say that I am more in favour of this change than against it, but perhaps it could be implemented in such a way as to please both healers and damage dealers?

fred4 · October 2021

Jameson18 wrote: »

While I'm excited to see a solid heal for Magblade, I'm in agreement with both of the above.

Edit: Clarification - Solid Self Heal

Langeston wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Malevolent Offering on PTS now costs magicka. I have tested it and the self - dot penThis skill on PTS feels pretty much like yet another generic healing ability. We have plenty of those in ESO, so imho a very bad thing had happened. A certain class uniqueness has been taken away...

I usually agree with most of what you have to say re: NBs, but this is one area where I strongly disagree.

Magblades have always been "unique" in that a restoration staff was basically a hard requirement in PVP (and even then your "burst heal" was likely to heal someone else instead of you.) Now, finally, I can use S&B, an Ice staff, or go double destro. The number of options that have been opened to PVP magblades is truly game-changing.

There's a reason all the other classes were given those "generic healing abilities" in the first place — it's because they're super useful and important for survival.

This change is fantastic for PVP. Magblades have needed a boost like this for a long time.

Except from what I've seen in The Real Godzilla's video, the skill will be utter trash for a solo PvP magblade. I highly doubt it can replace a resto staff:

The tooltip was 7K for a 3.5K magicka cost plus a subsequent health cost. That is poor. Other healing skills with that kind of magicka cost heal for more like a 10K tooltip and don't have a health cost. I do not think this skill can replace Healing Ward (or Rapid Regen), which means it's gonna be even worse than it is now. With those insane costs (magicka plus health) I don't see it having any use for anyone.
It's still a targeted heal that can heal an ally. This means it will very likely uncloak you when you use it on yourself, because that's what all of those kind of skills do. We're still not drawing parity with the utility of Rally for solo play. The latter allows you to heal in cloak, one of the factors that makes stamblade better.
Supposing you cloak, but you have to heal. Maybe you have a Swallow Soul HOT running, maybe not. How are you going to offset the health cost, so you can come out of Cloak at full health? The skill is insanely stupid. A self-heal for a health cost makes no sense. If I'm going back into battle I have to be at full health, not full health - 3K.

fred4 · October 2021

OK, I am reading the other thread now and I'm confused how this actually scales. People are claiming much higher values.

LeonAkando · October 2021

It's perhaps the strongest single target burst heal in the game now (PTS), and the health penalty does ramp up. It's objectively designed to be more useful now, and the split cost retains some of the sustain and flavor of it's current use.

I understand your concerns regarding it, but I am under the impression it will be healthier overall, and maybe make Nightblade healers in PVE less of a meme pick, while toning down some of the crazy sustain of Nightblade healers in PVP.

WombatNipples65 · October 2021

LeonAkando wrote: »

and maybe make Nightblade healers in PVE less of a meme pick.

As long as NB heal doesn't provide as many decent group buffs as the other classes, it will sadly remain where it is.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2021

fred4 wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

While I'm excited to see a solid heal for Magblade, I'm in agreement with both of the above.

Edit: Clarification - Solid Self Heal

Langeston wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Malevolent Offering on PTS now costs magicka. I have tested it and the self - dot penThis skill on PTS feels pretty much like yet another generic healing ability. We have plenty of those in ESO, so imho a very bad thing had happened. A certain class uniqueness has been taken away...

I usually agree with most of what you have to say re: NBs, but this is one area where I strongly disagree.

Magblades have always been "unique" in that a restoration staff was basically a hard requirement in PVP (and even then your "burst heal" was likely to heal someone else instead of you.) Now, finally, I can use S&B, an Ice staff, or go double destro. The number of options that have been opened to PVP magblades is truly game-changing.

There's a reason all the other classes were given those "generic healing abilities" in the first place — it's because they're super useful and important for survival.

This change is fantastic for PVP. Magblades have needed a boost like this for a long time.

Except from what I've seen in The Real Godzilla's video, the skill will be utter trash for a solo PvP magblade. I highly doubt it can replace a resto staff:
The tooltip was 7K for a 3.5K magicka cost plus a subsequent health cost. That is poor. Other healing skills with that kind of magicka cost heal for more like a 10K tooltip and don't have a health cost. I do not think this skill can replace Healing Ward (or Rapid Regen), which means it's gonna be even worse than it is now. With those insane costs (magicka plus health) I don't see it having any use for anyone.

It's still a targeted heal that can heal an ally. This means it will very likely uncloak you when you use it on yourself, because that's what all of those kind of skills do. We're still not drawing parity with the utility of Rally for solo play. The latter allows you to heal in cloak, one of the factors that makes stamblade better.

Supposing you cloak, but you have to heal. Maybe you have a Swallow Soul HOT running, maybe not. How are you going to offset the health cost, so you can come out of Cloak at full health? The skill is insanely stupid. A self-heal for a health cost makes no sense. If I'm going back into battle I have to be at full health, not full health - 3K.

Honestly curious. The health cost is what? 300 hp/sec? How is that even relevant?

Foxtrot39 · October 2021

Yeah one morph should stay like the one we currently have, just for keeping that unique healing quik that make NB healer that unique, on top of that skill is effective even on non healers, as tank I always have it to help allies wich are in a bad spot

-Morph doesn't allow self targeting, keep the 8s minor reparation, cost less but is HP only => healer morph

As a tank I rarely been able to double as a healer with just a single skill sloted, being able to drop instant 11k heal crit on a ally was makign me feel all that much valuable to cope with the lack of tanking ability NB has (pls ZoS rework bolstering darkness to benefit the tank as much it benefits allies, there is nothing "bolstering" me if I just get a tad less damage but that for another thread)

Mayrael · October 2021

fred4 wrote: »

OK, I am reading the other thread now and I'm confused how this actually scales. People are claiming much higher values.

With pretty average stats ~4k spell damage and 30k magicka in PvE heal fires for something around 10k so it's pretty decent heal, especially for magblade which is forced to use restoration staff since ages in PvP.

When it goes to morphs I don't see a problem if morph with mending would stay as it is on live (also no self heal allowed) and shrewd offering would be changed to what we have on PTS. Everyone is happy.

Foxtrot39 · October 2021

That the thing, we just need a self heal capable morph not the entire skill to be ruined for the sake of saving magblade survivability, especialy on the scaling, make a magicka scaling morph for the self heal, just keep the HP scaling one for purely support healing for those who are alreayd more than fine with the current version

As a NB tank I don't want to loose the only real support ability I can offer due to limited magicka regen wich is also my backup block ressource, I already use it all the time to help myself self heal with that minor mending buff while saving friendlies so a 2 in 1 combo skill

Weapon scaling is going to ruin it compltely on support tank as it will turn it into a magicka dump that is barely healing

Healer rely on the hp only cost to give them a massive sustain boost without having to stop healing as they can't offer any group utility like other healer classes

Andre_Noir · October 2021

Mayrael wrote: »

I don't see a problem if morph with mending would stay as it is on live.

The problem is an infinity sustain with little no efforts. It's just not discussed much because the main benefactor of this clear balance hole are lovely ball groups. Blood for blood and frenzy both got nerfed hard exactly because it's so easy to overwhelm health cost with healing

Red_Feather · October 2021

Here is an idea. A unique mechanic.

It costs health to cast.
It gives a heal over time as well.
If you recast it before the heal over time duration expires, it refunds the health, lumps the remaining HoT into a heal and costs magicka.

LadySinflower · October 2021

They are doing it because it's not used as much as other NB skills, and they perceive that as a problem. Personally I main a DD Magblade and do not PvP. Whenever I've looked at respeccing my skills, I've always looked at that one and said "yeah, no." It costs me health and doesn't heal me? As a mostly solo player I had no use for it. The biggest challenge I had leveling my character was having enough health to stay alive (before I understood sustain). Why would I use a skill that took away the very resource I was having the hardest time maintaining? I'm not sure if I'll try it after the change goes into effect, but I do understand their perception of the situation. Players like me never used it. I'm sure I'm not the only player like me.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with what they're doing, only that I understand from the point of view of a player who never considered using the skill at all. They don't want a skill sitting there that a set of players refuse to use. They think it's a waste. I don't think they're considering the (probably larger) set of players who like the skill and use it often.

I don't mind having the skill there as it is, because there isn't enough room on my bars to slot every single skill. It's just ZOS perceiving what they think is a problem, and trying to fix it, whether it needs to be fixed or not.

Langeston · October 2021

I can't believe some of what I'm reading in this thread.

I understand that PVEers may not like the change, and perhaps one of the morphs should be altered to accommodate them. But saying it's the "WORST Nightblade Heal Change"? That's simply hyperbole. PVP magblades have been begging ZOS for self burst heal for literally YEARS — since before I even started playing the game in early 2019.

I was on the PTS playing around with the skill, and it's going to be game-changing for me, and in a very good way. For the first time ever I can run something other than a resto staff on my back bar, and I can completely do away with Healing Ward. I haven't figured out exactly what I want to do yet, which feels amazing because I actually have options now.

This is the first change ever to the magblade toolkit that I am unequivocally happy about — for the last 3 years I've watched my class get gutted because of certain people complaining about magblades being able to parse a bit higher on target dummies. It's about time PVP magblades got a tiny bit of love.

ZOS_Lunar · October 2021

Greetings everyone!

We've removed some posts from this thread as they violated our rules on baiting. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.

angelofdeath333 · October 2021

fred4 wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

While I'm excited to see a solid heal for Magblade, I'm in agreement with both of the above.

Edit: Clarification - Solid Self Heal

Langeston wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Malevolent Offering on PTS now costs magicka. I have tested it and the self - dot penThis skill on PTS feels pretty much like yet another generic healing ability. We have plenty of those in ESO, so imho a very bad thing had happened. A certain class uniqueness has been taken away...

I usually agree with most of what you have to say re: NBs, but this is one area where I strongly disagree.

Magblades have always been "unique" in that a restoration staff was basically a hard requirement in PVP (and even then your "burst heal" was likely to heal someone else instead of you.) Now, finally, I can use S&B, an Ice staff, or go double destro. The number of options that have been opened to PVP magblades is truly game-changing.

There's a reason all the other classes were given those "generic healing abilities" in the first place — it's because they're super useful and important for survival.

This change is fantastic for PVP. Magblades have needed a boost like this for a long time.

Except from what I've seen in The Real Godzilla's video, the skill will be utter trash for a solo PvP magblade. I highly doubt it can replace a resto staff:
The tooltip was 7K for a 3.5K magicka cost plus a subsequent health cost. That is poor. Other healing skills with that kind of magicka cost heal for more like a 10K tooltip and don't have a health cost. I do not think this skill can replace Healing Ward (or Rapid Regen), which means it's gonna be even worse than it is now. With those insane costs (magicka plus health) I don't see it having any use for anyone.

It's still a targeted heal that can heal an ally. This means it will very likely uncloak you when you use it on yourself, because that's what all of those kind of skills do. We're still not drawing parity with the utility of Rally for solo play. The latter allows you to heal in cloak, one of the factors that makes stamblade better.

Supposing you cloak, but you have to heal. Maybe you have a Swallow Soul HOT running, maybe not. How are you going to offset the health cost, so you can come out of Cloak at full health? The skill is insanely stupid. A self-heal for a health cost makes no sense. If I'm going back into battle I have to be at full health, not full health - 3K.

I watched that video too, and you clearly wasnt paying attention to his character! He had ZERO attributes and random gear.

Irisa37 · October 2021

LadySinflower wrote: »

They are doing it because it's not used as much as other NB skills, and they perceive that as a problem. Personally I main a DD Magblade and do not PvP. Whenever I've looked at respeccing my skills, I've always looked at that one and said "yeah, no." It costs me health and doesn't heal me? As a mostly solo player I had no use for it. The biggest challenge I had leveling my character was having enough health to stay alive (before I understood sustain). Why would I use a skill that took away the very resource I was having the hardest time maintaining? I'm not sure if I'll try it after the change goes into effect, but I do understand their perception of the situation. Players like me never used it. I'm sure I'm not the only player like me.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with what they're doing, only that I understand from the point of view of a player who never considered using the skill at all. They don't want a skill sitting there that a set of players refuse to use. They think it's a waste. I don't think they're considering the (probably larger) set of players who like the skill and use it often.

I don't mind having the skill there as it is, because there isn't enough room on my bars to slot every single skill. It's just ZOS perceiving what they think is a problem, and trying to fix it, whether it needs to be fixed or not.

I played a lot of solo PvE on my magicka Nightblade during my first year of ESO and I agree with you. I looked at this skill and never once considered taking it. Reading the developer notes regarding the proposed change, they are altering it for this very reason.

The problem, as always, seems to be getting the right balance between PvP and PvE. I don't think that it's possible to please everyone, so someone is bound to be disappointed. The issue for me though, as someone who does both PvE and PvP with their magicka Nightblade is that the burst heal is so badly needed for PvP and magicka Nightblade already has many really good abilities for PvE that I think that this change should prioritise PvP play in this instance.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · October 2021

Dark Cloak was a self-healing ability this whole time though....

You know it is possible to play a Nightblade who does not stealth.

Fhritz · October 2021

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Dark Cloak was a self-healing ability this whole time though....

You know it is possible to play a Nightblade who does not stealth.

Yes, but it's not a BURST self heal. It's a HoT, making it less reactive and less usable

Langeston · October 2021

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Dark Cloak was a self-healing ability this whole time though....

You know it is possible to play a Nightblade who does not stealth.

Yup. And ever since ZOS decided out of the blue to nerf it while at the same time increasing the amount of damage everyone does, it's straight up garbage on a magblade in no-CP PVP (especially if you're not wearing heavy armor.) TBH, it wasn't really that great even before that.

I've seen [a few] people make it work, but at that point I kinda feel like you're better off just playing another class. A heavy armor tank with so-so sustain, mediocre damage, and a low crit rate just doesn't feel like a nightblade to me (especially if you're playing mag.)

In PVE though, it's fine. Probably works OK on a stam rollerblade too.

SickDuck · October 2021

Fhritz wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Dark Cloak was a self-healing ability this whole time though....

You know it is possible to play a Nightblade who does not stealth.

Yes, but it's not a BURST self heal. It's a HoT, making it less reactive and less usable

Exactly. Also I personally never liked Dark Cloak, since you have to sacrifice your unique class ability to go invisible - which is very useful in some situations. Also NB has no burst healing option, so that part of the change is very welcome. Swallow Soul and Pale Order will give you no good as a solo player when a boss goes through an invincible phase or just shielded. I was shocked how fast one can die at some mini-bosses in a Deadlands portal.

Given it can only be used in a group scenario and only useful for a dedicated healer which is quite uncommon and also has several alternatives - it is not a surprise the skill is not being used at all. I welcome the change that (at least one morph) can be used as a burst, self-heal. Now when you consider it as a burst, self-heal - it really does not make any sense to cost HP upfront - that would only make the skill useless for self-healing again. So the change is purely logical.

Maybe one morph could be kept as is, for the current unique and niche use.