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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
magwarden is too strong in pts
Flaaklypa
✭✭✭✭
i tested lots of duels and magdens still has insane pressure and healing even after the artic nerf. i feel like to properly set this class in line with the others we need to nerf their healing more, or make it purely a healer with little damage. fissure shouldnt give major fractuer but maybe minor defile. and maybe take away major mending passive, or make it minor mending instead. stamden is also very strong and deserve more nerfs.
northern wind needs snare removed, or damage reduced.
northern wind needs snare removed, or damage reduced.
2
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Marcus_Aurelius✭✭✭✭✭Can you please stop asking to nerf polar wind healing?
i would like to continue play my tank warden in PvE.
Just remove that useless stun and call it a day.
Plenty of sorcs streaking everyone, enough stun already.
5 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
8 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I agree, nerfs are bad. Better way would be to buff every other class instead... Pretty much all base game classes are behind paid / DLC ones...JanTanhide wrote: »Stop asking for nerfs.
Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 25, 2021 1:36PM3 -
Marcus_Aurelius✭✭✭✭✭Can you also stop with this paid/dlc nonsense ?
Warden and Necro are 1500 crown, one month of eso+ , soooo expensive right?
I would rather gift those classes to everyone so as not to have to read once more this whining about paid classes
5 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ffs what is wrong with people asking to nerf a class because they don't like the class. Ridiculous2 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »i would like to continue play my tank warden in PvE.
No problem. Then go to PVE as a TANK with a HEALER1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Andre_Noir wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »i would like to continue play my tank warden in PvE.
No problem. Then go to PVE as a TANK with a HEALER
Yeah, obviously that warden tank should change his playstyle and bring a pocket healer everywhere so that OP can win more duels against wardens. /s2 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
Edited by Veg on May 26, 2021 7:03AMᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ7 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dueling only tells one side of a story.
Like mag DK is way stronger than a Stam NB in duels. But take them both into solo open world and it couldn't be more different.0 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
3 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones because they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
As for the HEAL/STUN/AOE damage, the heal is at best 2-3k and realistically at <1k (total). The stun only stuns targets that are channeling an ability and if you don't hit anyone on the initial cast then the entire ability is wasted and you just lost 4k magic. All in all, inhale and both of it's morphs are absolute garbage.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.Edited by Veg on May 26, 2021 7:37AMᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ6 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones as they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.
How is the statement "magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes" = "you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class?" Are your foe real?
Deep Breath and deep fissure are not comparable at all. It was even recognized by ZOS when they removed CC effects from burst skills outside of the ulties. And as you can see, Deep Breath is mainly an AOE delayed stun, this is the only reason you would you use skill. If anything its comparable to artic blast, which is also AOE delayed stun that does some damage and heals.
But even it this case, most of the time you can't compare 2 similar skills from different classes.
Edited by Lughlongarm on May 26, 2021 8:05AM3 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭thread screams "i don't want magden to exist anymore" and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone. arguments made here for magicka warden being too strong don't have strong foundations and don't look into the design of the class whatsoever.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on May 26, 2021 8:06AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX6 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones as they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.
How is the statement "magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes" = "you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class?" Are your foe real?
Deep Breath and deep fissure are not comparable at all. It was even recognized by ZOS when they removed CC effects from burst skills outside of the ulties. And as you can see, Deep Breath is mainly an AOE delayed stun, this is the only reason you would you use skill. If anything its comparable to artic blast, which is also AOE delayed stun that do some damage and heals.
But even it this case, most of the time you can't compare 2 similar skills from different classes.
The stun from Deep Breath is not time delayed. It will activate if you hit someone that is channeling an ability within 8 meters of you the moment you activate the ability. If you don't hit anyone when you activate the ability then it will do nothing. No stun, heal or delayed burst.
When you say that Mag Wardens have the weakest burst potential among all class, that includes Mag DK's. I'm making sure everyone knows that Mag DK's have worse burst potential then Mag Wardens.
And yes Deep Breath, Deep Fissure and Stalking Blast Bones are all directly comparable. They are almost identical skills. They vary in radius, damage, cost and additional effect. Warden gets major breach, necro gets up to 50% extra damage and DK gets a possible stun that will give you a small heal. Other then those additional effects the only real difference is that Deep Breath costs twice as much and does half the damage of the other 2.
All 3 of these skills are time delayed burst damage. It just so happens that the DK's skill is really bad and therefor your statement that Mag Wardens having the worst burst potential is wrong.ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ1 -
Pauwer✭✭✭✭✭Omg, there us someone talking about dk skills who clearly has never played one. This kind of stuff really makes me wonder how many of the nerf threads are really made by the uninformed or thr downright trolls.
Op, if you say now magden is good for solo, that would be a welcome change. Or did you duel potatoes?1 -
Flaaklypa✭✭✭✭Omg, there us someone talking about dk skills who clearly has never played one. This kind of stuff really makes me wonder how many of the nerf threads are really made by the uninformed or thr downright trolls.
Op, if you say now magden is good for solo, that would be a welcome change. Or did you duel potatoes?
dk is way worse than magdden on pts i kill every dk but not warden, they are too tanky and just burst me down before i can react. thing is that i know people love defending broken sht that they abuse, but i speak for the majority of players that want a fair pvp environment. i'd welcome magdk buffs/ cheaper skills.Edited by Flaaklypa on May 26, 2021 8:46AM0 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones as they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.
How is the statement "magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes" = "you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class?" Are your foe real?
Deep Breath and deep fissure are not comparable at all. It was even recognized by ZOS when they removed CC effects from burst skills outside of the ulties. And as you can see, Deep Breath is mainly an AOE delayed stun, this is the only reason you would you use skill. If anything its comparable to artic blast, which is also AOE delayed stun that do some damage and heals.
But even it this case, most of the time you can't compare 2 similar skills from different classes.
The stun from Deep Breath is not time delayed. It will activate if you hit someone that is channeling an ability within 8 meters of you the moment you activate the ability. If you don't hit anyone when you activate the ability then it will do nothing. No stun, heal or delayed burst.
When you say that Mag Wardens have the weakest burst potential among all class, that includes Mag DK's. I'm making sure everyone knows that Mag DK's have worse burst potential then Mag Wardens.
And yes Deep Breath, Deep Fissure and Stalking Blast Bones are all directly comparable. They are almost identical skills. They vary in radius, damage, cost and additional effect. Warden gets major breach, necro gets up to 50% extra damage and DK gets a possible stun that will give you a small heal. Other then those additional effects the only real difference is that Deep Breath costs twice as much and does half the damage of the other 2.
All 3 of these skills are time delayed burst damage. It just so happens that the DK's skill is really bad and therefor your statement that Mag Wardens having the worst burst potential is wrong.
Burst potential meaning is the composition of several skills and factors aligning together is a short time frame to create massive damage. Magdens got Deep Fissure , which is OK by itself and indeed part of any burst rotation for a magden, but it got nothing behind it. a meha dot(Fetcher Infection)and a standard spammable. IN order to increase burst potential a Magden will have to use a stamina ultimate(Dawnbreaker of Smiting) which is not very ideal.
MagDK don't have a pure delayed burst like t Deep Fissure, but they do have very strong dots, very strong CC skill, very strong spammable with a Sammy burst skill capabilities and a bursty ultimate. The overall burst combo of MagDK is much stronger compared to Magdens.
Edited by Lughlongarm on May 26, 2021 9:16AM3 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭[snip]
I know enough of DK to know that deep breath is not the skill that you will use in most situations as part of of your burst rotation on a MagDK. [snip]
[edited to remove quote and baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on May 26, 2021 12:17PM1 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones as they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.
How is the statement "magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes" = "you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class?" Are your foe real?
Deep Breath and deep fissure are not comparable at all. It was even recognized by ZOS when they removed CC effects from burst skills outside of the ulties. And as you can see, Deep Breath is mainly an AOE delayed stun, this is the only reason you would you use skill. If anything its comparable to artic blast, which is also AOE delayed stun that do some damage and heals.
But even it this case, most of the time you can't compare 2 similar skills from different classes.
The stun from Deep Breath is not time delayed. It will activate if you hit someone that is channeling an ability within 8 meters of you the moment you activate the ability. If you don't hit anyone when you activate the ability then it will do nothing. No stun, heal or delayed burst.
When you say that Mag Wardens have the weakest burst potential among all class, that includes Mag DK's. I'm making sure everyone knows that Mag DK's have worse burst potential then Mag Wardens.
And yes Deep Breath, Deep Fissure and Stalking Blast Bones are all directly comparable. They are almost identical skills. They vary in radius, damage, cost and additional effect. Warden gets major breach, necro gets up to 50% extra damage and DK gets a possible stun that will give you a small heal. Other then those additional effects the only real difference is that Deep Breath costs twice as much and does half the damage of the other 2.
All 3 of these skills are time delayed burst damage. It just so happens that the DK's skill is really bad and therefor your statement that Mag Wardens having the worst burst potential is wrong.
Burst potential meaning is the composition of several skills and factors aligning together is a short time frame to create massive damage. Magdens got Deep Fissure , which is OK by itself and indeed part of any burst rotation for a magden, but it got nothing behind it. a meha dot(Fetcher Infection)and a standard spammable. IN order to increase burst potential a Magden will have to use a stamina ultimate(Dawnbreaker of Smiting) which is not very ideal.
MagDK don't have a pure delayed burst like t Deep Fissure, but they do have very strong dots, very strong CC skill, very strong spammable with a Sammy burst skill capabilities and a bursty ultimate. The overall burst combo of MagDK is much stronger compared to Magdens.
No we have garbo DoTs that can only be effective in PVE. Our only reliable high damaging ability is leap. that's it. Unless eso goes back to the 25% damage reduction on battle spirit then mag DK's will never have good burst without major changes to skills.
I know enough of DK to know that deep breath is not the skill that you will use in most situations as part of of your burst rotation on a MagDK. [snip]
Ya its crazy how no one uses deep breath for burst damage. It's like its garbage at everything it does or something. Thats my entire argument. Deep Breath should get the 50% damage increase and give the stun/heal to draw essence (the actual utility skill).
https://i.imgur.com/1ov1OOD.mp4
Here's my mad skillz going maximum possible burst damage from a mag DK (this build has 7k armor and will die if someone pokes it) and still getting out damaged by tanky stamwardensEdited by ZOS_Lunar on May 26, 2021 12:18PMᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones as they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.
How is the statement "magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes" = "you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class?" Are your foe real?
Deep Breath and deep fissure are not comparable at all. It was even recognized by ZOS when they removed CC effects from burst skills outside of the ulties. And as you can see, Deep Breath is mainly an AOE delayed stun, this is the only reason you would you use skill. If anything its comparable to artic blast, which is also AOE delayed stun that do some damage and heals.
But even it this case, most of the time you can't compare 2 similar skills from different classes.
The stun from Deep Breath is not time delayed. It will activate if you hit someone that is channeling an ability within 8 meters of you the moment you activate the ability. If you don't hit anyone when you activate the ability then it will do nothing. No stun, heal or delayed burst.
When you say that Mag Wardens have the weakest burst potential among all class, that includes Mag DK's. I'm making sure everyone knows that Mag DK's have worse burst potential then Mag Wardens.
And yes Deep Breath, Deep Fissure and Stalking Blast Bones are all directly comparable. They are almost identical skills. They vary in radius, damage, cost and additional effect. Warden gets major breach, necro gets up to 50% extra damage and DK gets a possible stun that will give you a small heal. Other then those additional effects the only real difference is that Deep Breath costs twice as much and does half the damage of the other 2.
All 3 of these skills are time delayed burst damage. It just so happens that the DK's skill is really bad and therefor your statement that Mag Wardens having the worst burst potential is wrong.
Burst potential meaning is the composition of several skills and factors aligning together is a short time frame to create massive damage. Magdens got Deep Fissure , which is OK by itself and indeed part of any burst rotation for a magden, but it got nothing behind it. a meha dot(Fetcher Infection)and a standard spammable. IN order to increase burst potential a Magden will have to use a stamina ultimate(Dawnbreaker of Smiting) which is not very ideal.
MagDK don't have a pure delayed burst like t Deep Fissure, but they do have very strong dots, very strong CC skill, very strong spammable with a Sammy burst skill capabilities and a bursty ultimate. The overall burst combo of MagDK is much stronger compared to Magdens.
No we have garbo DoTs that can only be effective in PVE. Our only reliable high damaging ability is leap. that's it. Unless eso goes back to the 25% damage reduction on battle spirit then mag DK's will never have good burst without major changes to skills.
I know enough of DK to know that deep breath is not the skill that you will use in most situations as part of of your burst rotation on a MagDK. [snip]
Ya its crazy how no one uses deep breath for burst damage. It's like its garbage at everything it does or something. Thats my entire argument. Deep Breath should get the 50% damage increase and give the stun/heal to draw essence (the actual utility skill).
https://i.imgur.com/1ov1OOD.mp4
Here's my mad skillz going maximum possible burst damage from a mag DK (this build has 7k armor and will die if someone pokes it) and still getting out damaged by tanky stamwardens
"Thats my entire argument. Deep Breath should get the 50% damage increase and give the stun/heal to draw essence (the actual utility skill)."
If that's your entire argument, what business do you have commenting on the "magwarden is too strong in pts " thread?
Open a new thread, perhaps I will even support it. I do agree with the notions of magDK is lacking group utility and AOE damage. This got nothing to do with this thread topic.Edited by ZOS_Lunar on May 26, 2021 12:19PM0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Id like for nbs and sorcs to get much better class-defences and class-healing. (Petsorcs excluded)
PC EU
PvP only1 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones as they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.
How is the statement "magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes" = "you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class?" Are your foe real?
Deep Breath and deep fissure are not comparable at all. It was even recognized by ZOS when they removed CC effects from burst skills outside of the ulties. And as you can see, Deep Breath is mainly an AOE delayed stun, this is the only reason you would you use skill. If anything its comparable to artic blast, which is also AOE delayed stun that do some damage and heals.
But even it this case, most of the time you can't compare 2 similar skills from different classes.
The stun from Deep Breath is not time delayed. It will activate if you hit someone that is channeling an ability within 8 meters of you the moment you activate the ability. If you don't hit anyone when you activate the ability then it will do nothing. No stun, heal or delayed burst.
When you say that Mag Wardens have the weakest burst potential among all class, that includes Mag DK's. I'm making sure everyone knows that Mag DK's have worse burst potential then Mag Wardens.
And yes Deep Breath, Deep Fissure and Stalking Blast Bones are all directly comparable. They are almost identical skills. They vary in radius, damage, cost and additional effect. Warden gets major breach, necro gets up to 50% extra damage and DK gets a possible stun that will give you a small heal. Other then those additional effects the only real difference is that Deep Breath costs twice as much and does half the damage of the other 2.
All 3 of these skills are time delayed burst damage. It just so happens that the DK's skill is really bad and therefor your statement that Mag Wardens having the worst burst potential is wrong.
Burst potential meaning is the composition of several skills and factors aligning together is a short time frame to create massive damage. Magdens got Deep Fissure , which is OK by itself and indeed part of any burst rotation for a magden, but it got nothing behind it. a meha dot(Fetcher Infection)and a standard spammable. IN order to increase burst potential a Magden will have to use a stamina ultimate(Dawnbreaker of Smiting) which is not very ideal.
MagDK don't have a pure delayed burst like t Deep Fissure, but they do have very strong dots, very strong CC skill, very strong spammable with a Sammy burst skill capabilities and a bursty ultimate. The overall burst combo of MagDK is much stronger compared to Magdens.
No we have garbo DoTs that can only be effective in PVE. Our only reliable high damaging ability is leap. that's it. Unless eso goes back to the 25% damage reduction on battle spirit then mag DK's will never have good burst without major changes to skills.
I know enough of DK to know that deep breath is not the skill that you will use in most situations as part of of your burst rotation on a MagDK. [snip]
Ya its crazy how no one uses deep breath for burst damage. It's like its garbage at everything it does or something. Thats my entire argument. Deep Breath should get the 50% damage increase and give the stun/heal to draw essence (the actual utility skill).
https://i.imgur.com/1ov1OOD.mp4
Here's my mad skillz going maximum possible burst damage from a mag DK (this build has 7k armor and will die if someone pokes it) and still getting out damaged by tanky stamwardens
"Thats my entire argument. Deep Breath should get the 50% damage increase and give the stun/heal to draw essence (the actual utility skill)."
If that's your entire argument, what business do you have commenting on the "magwarden is too strong in pts " thread?
Open a new thread, perhaps I will even support it. I do agree with the notions of magDK is lacking group utility and AOE damage. This got nothing to do with this thread topic.
I had to go off because someone tried claiming the throne of worst class for pvp burst damage. Gotta make sure any information regarding the worst class for pvp that the devs ever access lets them know whats up. Clearly they missed this as nothing changed this cycle.Edited by ZOS_Lunar on May 26, 2021 12:20PMᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ0 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones as they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.
How is the statement "magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes" = "you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class?" Are your foe real?
Deep Breath and deep fissure are not comparable at all. It was even recognized by ZOS when they removed CC effects from burst skills outside of the ulties. And as you can see, Deep Breath is mainly an AOE delayed stun, this is the only reason you would you use skill. If anything its comparable to artic blast, which is also AOE delayed stun that do some damage and heals.
But even it this case, most of the time you can't compare 2 similar skills from different classes.
The stun from Deep Breath is not time delayed. It will activate if you hit someone that is channeling an ability within 8 meters of you the moment you activate the ability. If you don't hit anyone when you activate the ability then it will do nothing. No stun, heal or delayed burst.
When you say that Mag Wardens have the weakest burst potential among all class, that includes Mag DK's. I'm making sure everyone knows that Mag DK's have worse burst potential then Mag Wardens.
And yes Deep Breath, Deep Fissure and Stalking Blast Bones are all directly comparable. They are almost identical skills. They vary in radius, damage, cost and additional effect. Warden gets major breach, necro gets up to 50% extra damage and DK gets a possible stun that will give you a small heal. Other then those additional effects the only real difference is that Deep Breath costs twice as much and does half the damage of the other 2.
All 3 of these skills are time delayed burst damage. It just so happens that the DK's skill is really bad and therefor your statement that Mag Wardens having the worst burst potential is wrong.
So buff magdk's, stop being pissed at other classes.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Magden very mediocre, you lost some duels so you come here for nerfs. Build yourself a Warden and let me know how OP you feel.
Magden healing is one of the weakest burst healers ATM, artic blast tool tip is like 8k on a 37k HP build. Only magickaNB got weaker healing.
Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. even Magcros got grave robber/harmony combo.
Stamina Warden is good but so are most of the stamina toons as they all use exactly the same sets, weapon skills and vigor.
(stamina NB is different but also good).
Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? Please continue, i'd love to hear about how mag wardens are totally out classed by mag DK's and aren't just a stronger version of the mag DK class.
Just imagine your projectile absorption ability stopped absorbing projectiles and no longer gave you major heroism... and your shalks damage got nerfed by 50%... and your AoE damage over time ability stopped doing AoE damage...
That would be totally crazy and never ever happen to any class right....
"Oh im sorry, you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class? "
Where did I say anything about DK'S?
And how can you can you even compare Deep Breath to Deep Fissure? Deep Fissure is a damage skill, and the only burst damage skill Warden has. Deep Breath is a AOE stun + Heal+AOE damage, mostly used in group play. Most DK builds don't even use it, Not the magicka version and not the stamina version.
"Magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes. "
Also deep breath is literally a burst damage skill. The morph from inhale is increased damage. It's just a flat out garbage skill.
It is directly comparable to both deep fissure and stalking blast bones as they are all time delayed AoE burst damage abilities. Deep Breath just costs twice as much and does half as much damage because why the hell not, screw DK's. Also there is no stamina version of deep breath, the other morph "Draw Essence" just heals for more.
I think that covers all your points. In summary, Mag wardens do not have the worst burst potential.
How is the statement "magden got the weakest burst potential among all classes" = "you were saying something about mag DK's having better burst damage than literally any other class?" Are your foe real?
Deep Breath and deep fissure are not comparable at all. It was even recognized by ZOS when they removed CC effects from burst skills outside of the ulties. And as you can see, Deep Breath is mainly an AOE delayed stun, this is the only reason you would you use skill. If anything its comparable to artic blast, which is also AOE delayed stun that do some damage and heals.
But even it this case, most of the time you can't compare 2 similar skills from different classes.
The stun from Deep Breath is not time delayed. It will activate if you hit someone that is channeling an ability within 8 meters of you the moment you activate the ability. If you don't hit anyone when you activate the ability then it will do nothing. No stun, heal or delayed burst.
When you say that Mag Wardens have the weakest burst potential among all class, that includes Mag DK's. I'm making sure everyone knows that Mag DK's have worse burst potential then Mag Wardens.
And yes Deep Breath, Deep Fissure and Stalking Blast Bones are all directly comparable. They are almost identical skills. They vary in radius, damage, cost and additional effect. Warden gets major breach, necro gets up to 50% extra damage and DK gets a possible stun that will give you a small heal. Other then those additional effects the only real difference is that Deep Breath costs twice as much and does half the damage of the other 2.
All 3 of these skills are time delayed burst damage. It just so happens that the DK's skill is really bad and therefor your statement that Mag Wardens having the worst burst potential is wrong.
Burst potential meaning is the composition of several skills and factors aligning together is a short time frame to create massive damage. Magdens got Deep Fissure , which is OK by itself and indeed part of any burst rotation for a magden, but it got nothing behind it. a meha dot(Fetcher Infection)and a standard spammable. IN order to increase burst potential a Magden will have to use a stamina ultimate(Dawnbreaker of Smiting) which is not very ideal.
MagDK don't have a pure delayed burst like t Deep Fissure, but they do have very strong dots, very strong CC skill, very strong spammable with a Sammy burst skill capabilities and a bursty ultimate. The overall burst combo of MagDK is much stronger compared to Magdens.
No we have garbo DoTs that can only be effective in PVE. Our only reliable high damaging ability is leap. that's it. Unless eso goes back to the 25% damage reduction on battle spirit then mag DK's will never have good burst without major changes to skills.
I know enough of DK to know that deep breath is not the skill that you will use in most situations as part of of your burst rotation on a MagDK. [snip]
Ya its crazy how no one uses deep breath for burst damage. It's like its garbage at everything it does or something. Thats my entire argument. Deep Breath should get the 50% damage increase and give the stun/heal to draw essence (the actual utility skill).
https://i.imgur.com/1ov1OOD.mp4
Here's my mad skillz going maximum possible burst damage from a mag DK (this build has 7k armor and will die if someone pokes it) and still getting out damaged by tanky stamwardens
"Thats my entire argument. Deep Breath should get the 50% damage increase and give the stun/heal to draw essence (the actual utility skill)."
If that's your entire argument, what business do you have commenting on the "magwarden is too strong in pts " thread?
Open a new thread, perhaps I will even support it. I do agree with the notions of magDK is lacking group utility and AOE damage. This got nothing to do with this thread topic.
I had to go off because someone tried claiming the throne of worst class for pvp burst damage. Gotta make sure any information regarding the worst class for pvp that the devs ever access lets them know whats up. Clearly they missed this as nothing changed this cycle.
Magden got Worst burst damage, I stand behind this claim. Never said Worst, class. Warden excel everywhere MagDKS fails. AOE damage and group utility. When it comes to burst and single target damage, Magden is the weakest.
Now this is not a buff Warden thread, this is a nerf Warden thread, so I have no fear about devs getting the wrong impression.
And regardless, I don't think MagDK is the weakest, weakest class is probably Magblade.Edited by ZOS_Lunar on May 26, 2021 12:21PM0 -
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Scallan✭✭✭✭Towering, stern Gandalf voice: STOP ASKING FOR NERFS
Calm, friendly Gandalf voice: Instead, please ask for buffs for the other classes.
We've been beaten over the head with nerfs so much recently, and it's not really making the game any better.
3 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭About this MagDK vs MagDen Burst Potential, according to my perception:
In overall effectiveness, Meteor is closer to Leap than Proxy Det is to Deep Fissure, even if only because of Proxy's 8 second delay. So, a Warden with Meteor + Deep Fissure has probably more Burst Potential than a MagDK with Leap + Proxy.
It appears the intent of Deep Breath was mostly as a heal for "tanks", ala Crimson, Leeching, Bahara's, Glorious Defender.
Nothing could increase the relative strength of DK over Warden more than a nerf to Dawny and Meteor.
Still, when it comes to MagDK vs MagDen Burst, we're talking about Burst on the two most "Pressure" oriented classes. In this case, I find Northern Storm to be a bit more Pressure-inducing than Standard in most cases - but maybe less than Corrosive, if we bring Stam into the picture. We tend not to wait around for Corrosive on StamDK, in favor of Leap, whereas most MagDens seem to spend most of their Ult on Northern Storm, so the latter is responsible for more actual pressure in-game, even if maybe slightly weaker at inducing it.
Anyhow, if I could make just one change to Warden to try and tone it down without ruining it, I would just make Netch cost around 2k Health, like Necro's Expunge. This provides a nice check on Necro's ability to repeatedly purge under pressure.
Edited by Urzigurumash on May 26, 2021 6:15PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1
