These drastic changes do cause players to quit, I have proof...

The_Undefined · September 2019

I'm one of those players. I've always had a fondness for ESO due to it's wild and crazy systems that were so loose and silly (Guild traders? Terrible idea, but fun for community. Open to all sorts of mods? Wow, way to exploit players for free work, but super fun to see the community ban together! You can use ANY weapon and have access to so many different skill lines? That must be a nightmare to balance but boy isn't it a blast to play!)

However, e.v.e.r.y. time I come back... it's always before a super huge nerf patch where there are ridiculous values of 50%+ damage reductions. I don't play endgame. I don't play PvP. I play PvE and I prefer to take content solo if at all possible. This totally wrecks that experience. So, I just quit playing. I actually feel comfortable spending money on premium monthly, costumes, mounts, etc. Yet, your team is losing out on my business due to these crazy back and forth changes.

Also, I brought 3 people in to play the game, they loved it and were really into it until a patch totally wrecked whatever builds they had began to enjoy.

I just thought I'd toss this opinion in here. Also, if you all keep thinking to yourself "Cool, quit, it's not your game" how many times do you have to say that until your studio / game shuts down? Just a thought from a potential subscriber... maybe cool it on changing your entire gameplay with 1 single patch

Vapirko · September 2019

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

The_Undefined · September 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

Questing and PvE was just one stage of the game, going into harder content is always the next step right? How do you justify continually sinking time and money into builds when they continually get nerfed? What confidence does someone have stepping upto the plate to really intimidating content with an equally intimidating community when just as you get a build down, the rug gets pulled out from under you as a new player with limited resources?

I'm not asking these questions rhetorically, I'm being serious. I know I"m not the target market for these changes, you're right, but I could be. Almost every person I know irl that plays MMO's has the exact same opinion I have of this game. Yeah it's great I really want to play it, but the patches always busts my build. I mean, is that the intent here?

GrimTheReaper45 · September 2019

Ive been a fan of eso a long time. If you asked me 2 years ago if id ever stop playing I would flat out be like no. Never imagined it at the time. Ive quit playing twice in the last year. Quit after nerfmire, came back to see if I liked magcro, was very disappointed and a patch later their back at it massively overhauling stuff again and Quit again. I only log on to help my 1 trader guild im an officer in, usually only if the gm messages me and asks.

Vapirko · September 2019

The_Undefined wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

Questing and PvE was just one stage of the game, going into harder content is always the next step right? How do you justify continually sinking time and money into builds when they continually get nerfed? What confidence does someone have stepping upto the plate to really intimidating content with an equally intimidating community when just as you get a build down, the rug gets pulled out from under you as a new player with limited resources?

I'm not asking these questions rhetorically, I'm being serious. I know I"m not the target market for these changes, you're right, but I could be. Almost every person I know irl that plays MMO's has the exact same opinion I have of this game. Yeah it's great I really want to play it, but the patches always busts my build. I mean, is that the intent here?

You accept that changes come, do what you can to provide constructive useful feedback and then just decide how much time if any you want to put into this game. That’s that. Over the years I’ve stopped subbing, resubbed and stopped again. Taken long breaks, played too much and stopped again. This patch really isn’t inspiring but unfortunately beyond providing an opinion there’s not much we can do. Some form of it will go live. Endgame PvE will always be available. This patch aside I think a lot of people get way too worked up over most of the changes. The difference now is the apparent carelessness with the changes as if they just want to be able to make mass changes to things. It’s not that we can’t adapt with relative ease it’s that it doesn’t seem like the combat team is even invested anymore. But I don’t sub anymore or purchase chapters or dlcs. I just use whatever I have access to. And so I think it’s fine. Idk how people justify putting more money into it.

The_Undefined · September 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

Questing and PvE was just one stage of the game, going into harder content is always the next step right? How do you justify continually sinking time and money into builds when they continually get nerfed? What confidence does someone have stepping upto the plate to really intimidating content with an equally intimidating community when just as you get a build down, the rug gets pulled out from under you as a new player with limited resources?

I'm not asking these questions rhetorically, I'm being serious. I know I"m not the target market for these changes, you're right, but I could be. Almost every person I know irl that plays MMO's has the exact same opinion I have of this game. Yeah it's great I really want to play it, but the patches always busts my build. I mean, is that the intent here?

You accept that changes come, do what you can to provide constructive useful feedback and then just decide how much time if any you want to put into this game. That’s that. Over the years I’ve stopped subbing, resubbed and stopped again. Taken long breaks, played too much and stopped again. This patch really isn’t inspiring but unfortunately beyond providing an opinion there’s not much we can do. Some form of it will go live. Endgame PvE will always be available. This patch aside I think a lot of people get way too worked up over most of the changes. The difference now is the apparent carelessness with the changes as if they just want to be able to make mass changes to things. It’s not that we can’t adapt with relative ease it’s that it doesn’t seem like the combat team is even invested anymore. But I don’t sub anymore or purchase chapters or dlcs. I just use whatever I have access to. And so I think it’s fine. Idk how people justify putting more money into it.

I guess I don't think that's an acceptable way to play an MMO I want to see succeed. Seeing the way GW2 is turning out and Wildstar among others is really sad. This MMO is really special in the field of its genre. It's a triple A title with an old school feel. I don't want to keep unsubbing then subbing. I want to sub and stay subbed with the confidence that my entire game won't change based on what the dev team is feeling that day. I want my sub to contribute to bigger better content... maybe polish up some of these rough animations.

I -want- to give this game money, but this keeps me from it. I don't see how that's not a big deal to a company among peers that have failed due to their stubborn attitudes of not listening to their players.

ChunkyCat · September 2019

Those are just alternative facts.

Davadin · September 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

that's *** and u know it. everybody's a noob once.

Zelos · September 2019

Davadin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

that's *** and u know it. everybody's a noob once.

Some people only play for casual questing. I've seen plenty of CP2000+ during the city event in cyrodiil that have no idea what to do other then light attack and maybe an ability. Everyone is a noob... that's true, some people like to evolve and go to endgame pvp or pve:) others like to just run around and quest in the 40+ zones of the game. Game does casual questing better then any other mmorpg on the market.

Idhendryon · September 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

According to the dev interview that's also their stance, but I think you and they might be wrong there. If you are a casual, you also set goals and try to challenge yourself to get better. This can be anything from soling dolmens/public dungeons to duoing monsters and easier dungeons with a friend or spouse. If that becomes more difficult all of a sudden, this can lead to people quitting.

I'm pretty sure for example that as a magDK I'll have more trouble with the content I'm doing if the changes going through mostly like they are now on the PTS. The self healing nerf alone is big. And I do things like LA weaving, keeping up with the changes, looking at websites, and trying to understand all the skills. My wife doesn't do any of these things, and if she all of sudden has much more trouble, she might just call it a day. She isn't subbed, but I am, and if she leaves, we both have to look for another game we can play together.

I don't know how all this pans out of course, it might be fine in the end, but thinking that such big changes every three months won't affect casuals because they do not care or are not affected somehow is misguided. Just one example, because of changes in the Scalebreaker patch, we ran around a lot for the mage guild books, although that is pretty boring stuff. Now just a few weeks later I find out we could have done more interesting things and do the books on the side. Feels like the devs are making fun of you, or just don't care.

Davadin · September 2019

Zelos wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

that's *** and u know it. everybody's a noob once.

Some people only play for casual questing. I've seen plenty of CP2000+ during the city event in cyrodiil that have no idea what to do other then light attack and maybe an ability. Everyone is a noob... that's true, some people like to evolve and go to endgame pvp or pve:) others like to just run around and quest in the 40+ zones of the game. Game does casual questing better then any other mmorpg on the market.

exactly.

so even those naysayers above a noob once. so they should know when ur barely lv50 and suddenly getting ur DoT 50% nerf or Dizzying doesn't stun or healing orb reduced, it does matter to casuals just as much as elite end-game raider.

different context of negative effect (ex. "aww i can't solo a mob of 3 anymore" vs "aww i just ruined my vSS HM title run"), but affects both nonetheless.

so yes, i'm with OP on this.

i'm with 5 guild, 2 trades, and 1 international/asian, 1 PvP, 1 end-game raider.

ALL of them have people leaving or taking a break because they're sick of ZOS keep changing the content.

not me tho, i already paid annually, so ill hang around and see the world burn lol

Sanctum74 · September 2019

I agree op, it gets extremely frustrating as a veteran player to have to keep changing your builds each patch. Out of 10 characters I have only adjusted 1 from the last patch and after looking at the pts I have no desire to adjust the rest

I can't imagine what it's like as a new player that only has 1 character just to have it completely changed, I would just move on if I wasn't so heavily invested already.

The performance issues are bad enough and greatly affect customer retention, but the constant changing back and forth with no vision at all just makes no sense.

I would gladly start subbing again if they got their act together, but looks like they are just trying to turn eso into a casual questing game and are ignoring any feedback.

idk · September 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

Questing and PvE was just one stage of the game, going into harder content is always the next step right? How do you justify continually sinking time and money into builds when they continually get nerfed? What confidence does someone have stepping upto the plate to really intimidating content with an equally intimidating community when just as you get a build down, the rug gets pulled out from under you as a new player with limited resources?

I'm not asking these questions rhetorically, I'm being serious. I know I"m not the target market for these changes, you're right, but I could be. Almost every person I know irl that plays MMO's has the exact same opinion I have of this game. Yeah it's great I really want to play it, but the patches always busts my build. I mean, is that the intent here?

You accept that changes come, do what you can to provide constructive useful feedback and then just decide how much time if any you want to put into this game. That’s that. Over the years I’ve stopped subbing, resubbed and stopped again. Taken long breaks, played too much and stopped again. This patch really isn’t inspiring but unfortunately beyond providing an opinion there’s not much we can do. Some form of it will go live. Endgame PvE will always be available. This patch aside I think a lot of people get way too worked up over most of the changes. The difference now is the apparent carelessness with the changes as if they just want to be able to make mass changes to things. It’s not that we can’t adapt with relative ease it’s that it doesn’t seem like the combat team is even invested anymore. But I don’t sub anymore or purchase chapters or dlcs. I just use whatever I have access to. And so I think it’s fine. Idk how people justify putting more money into it.

This is really it and that is not even getting into that OP has done nothing more than create an I quit thread complaining that Zos changes things.

First of all, Zos is finally trying to set the game so they have a better handle on it which if done right will lead to a reduction in the heavy handed changes going forward. But we still want to complain about it because we cannot see the trees for the forest.

Second, this game is not like the simplistic games such as WoW, FF and SWTOR where builds are extremely restricted. Balance is often just tweaking as there are fewer moving parts. So with that a more complex game will see greater changes. If you cannot handle it then there are other games that are more to your speed.

ManwithBeard9 · September 2019

These drastic changes do not cause players to quit, I have proof . . .

I'm still here.

Vapirko · September 2019

Davadin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

that's *** and u know it. everybody's a noob once.

It’s not bs at all. It’s the honest truth and what ZOS seems to be “balancing” around more and more. I just started a new account on EU for kicks. Just to see what it would be like with no CP, gear, money etc. and you know what? Overland is so *** easy with one or two skills. I can join in on world bosses even. The way the game is now starting out is not hard for people who just want to do quests. The grind to endgame is a different story but the OP said they’re mostly interested in solo content. While that can include vMA or soloing dungeons, the rest of the game is very easy. Nothing in the upcoming patch would be of overt concern to someone in this position and they will level in whatever meta comes of age at this time. Builds will be put out for them, content will be balanced around these changes and so on. If anything, the majority of the game is set to get easier for casuals who just want to enjoy PvE overland content.

@Idhendryon i see what you’re saying about the mages books but it’s incorrect. Mages guild skill line was integral before scalebreaker and it will be integral after dragon hold. Here’s another way to avoid too much upset between patches (and again this patch so far is an outlier) don’t chase the meta skills. Everyone who jumped on a magplar for PvP because of living dark and because it was so good with entropy and soul trap will feel it next patch and will likely switch out. Don’t be that guy. Pick a class because you like it and figure it out. I’ve seen people do well on all classes even when others said they were the absolute worst. I’ve mained stamina Templar for more than a year now and came into it when most people agreed they were bottom tier but that’s okay because I enjoy it. Now people are incorrectly yelling about them being OP and I’m still gonna play one and next patch when the Templar hype is gone (even though none of it applies to stamina Templar) I’ll still play it.

Idhendryon · September 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

that's *** and u know it. everybody's a noob once.

It’s not bs at all. It’s the honest truth and what ZOS seems to be “balancing” around more and more. I just started a new account on EU for kicks. Just to see what it would be like with no CP, gear, money etc. and you know what? Overland is so *** easy with one or two skills. I can join in on world bosses even. The way the game is now starting out is not hard for people who just want to do quests. The grind to endgame is a different story but the OP said they’re mostly interested in solo content. While that can include vMA or soloing dungeons, the rest of the game is very easy. Nothing in the upcoming patch would be of overt concern to someone in this position and they will level in whatever meta comes of age at this time. Builds will be put out for them, content will be balanced around these changes and so on. If anything, the majority of the game is set to get easier for casuals who just want to enjoy PvE overland content.

How many hours have you been playing? How good do you know the characters and skills? Of course it's easy for you. Most of the overland content is even easy for someone like me (who came back to the game a few months after a long hiatus). But if you really start new from scratch with no prior knowledge on how things work stuff can be difficult.

You can't compare a veteran like yourself with a new player, or a real casual player. And btw., things get more difficult the more you level up (which is good).

Now you can be of the opinion that stuff should be more difficult, and the devs should cater less to casual players, that's fine of course. But saying that sweeping changes and nerfs like this don't have an effect on casuals is misguided in my view.

Zelos · September 2019

Honestly I havent changed my build since horns of the reach:) except for the monster helmet and 1 trait with some attribute adjustments.

Drako_Ei · September 2019

Among the endgame community (Im talking about 1% of the population, maybe even less) at least among the people i know, around 20-30% of them stopped playing. My guild went from raiding everyday to dead, i joined yesterday to check what happened, and only 2 guys from my guild were online at prime time. My friends already went to WOW, so i followed them.

You know the devs are dumb when inferno staff becomes BiS for stamina DPS, you take my bow form me, i take my money, i already canceled my sub and got a WoW sub for 2 months, im liking it so far

Davadin · September 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If all you’re doing is questing overland content with no endgame PvP or PvE then you’re in luck because none of these changes really matter.

that's *** and u know it. everybody's a noob once.

It’s not bs at all. It’s the honest truth and what ZOS seems to be “balancing” around more and more. I just started a new account on EU for kicks. Just to see what it would be like with no CP, gear, money etc. and you know what? Overland is so *** easy with one or two skills. I can join in on world bosses even. The way the game is now starting out is not hard for people who just want to do quests. The grind to endgame is a different story but the OP said they’re mostly interested in solo content. While that can include vMA or soloing dungeons, the rest of the game is very easy. Nothing in the upcoming patch would be of overt concern to someone in this position and they will level in whatever meta comes of age at this time. Builds will be put out for them, content will be balanced around these changes and so on. If anything, the majority of the game is set to get easier for casuals who just want to enjoy PvE overland content.

i respectfully disagree. if i create a brand new account, its incomparable to someone who's starting the game from the very first time.

i have friends who are like that; both new in MMO or non-gamers who just want to explore Tamriel. people who spent 1 lv 50, or a couple lv30, or people who hit 50 after 2 years playing....

These changes affects them. My friends. I know these people.

But of course, there are LOTS of new playerscoming onboard as well, so naturally ZOS will deny it by saying "join 13 million registered players!"

ZOS_GregoryV · September 2019

Greetings all,

While it is unfortunate to find that a member of Tamriel will no longer be adventuring the lands, we must close this thread as goodbye/quitting threads are against the rules that we have in place. It is rather unfortunate it has come to this and wish the departing traveler well and safe travels. It there me be any question in regards to the rule, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-