Blanco wrote: »

Diggitydug wrote: »

So I have an honest question. Is the 18k minimum health before or after drink buff? I can get there with food, but have to put points in health to get there un buffed.

After, and you don't need any more than 18k as a dps.

If you're an aspiring DPS, do not put any points into health. It's not necessary. I'm at 18.4k without any points into health, and in all fairness I don't die very much.

You can really get by with 17k but 18k is nice to have.

A good way to increase your health without putting points into it is unlocking the Undaunted Mettle passive and running a 5-1-1 setup. That's one of the reasons why my health is so high.

Every one of my DDs has at least two points in health. Middling scrubs like me do better to get extra power from our gear than to rely on it for any part of our health, and I do a lot of things where I may have no healer to back me.

I think telling actual newbs with no CP and a lot of soloing ahead of them to put zero points in health is terrible advice. I've scraped a lot of those guys off the floor in normal dungeon PUGs, and their DPS sucks too because they spend too much time dead. That learning curve is frustrating not just for them but for everyone around them, and it doesn't need to be that steep. Plenty of time to respec to full glass cannon after they know what they're doing.

As far as I've noticed, streamers who provide builds usually point out themselves that their numbers are recommendations and people should add health or regen enchants or draining poisons or a piece of HA or whatever until they get something that works well for them. That piece of their advice shouldn't get lost, it's not a minor detail.

No-one has heard of the phrase 'fake it, til you make it' then?

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Streamers are a good source of information but not the end all of information . Their contributions should be taken with this common sense in mind that everyone plays different . Good luck everyone and try to stay alive in HoTR

True. And also...

Many of those who publish builds are not as good with their own builds as some people think they are...

Sometimes something gets popular when a streamer or podcaster or whatever who themselves is popular advocates it, even if they themselves are just an average or simply decently good player.

Far better to use a build that you can handle, and have worked to suit the ways you yourself play well and don't play well - build for your own strengths and weaknesses rather than those of the guy on the stream or podcast you like uses.

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've removed a few posts for being a little too heated. We understand there will always be two sides to a discussion but please be sure to refrain from flaming and baiting as that kind of content is against the Forum Rules. For further discussion please be sure to keep things civil and constructive to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.

I agree I have been bad . I will apologize and see my self to the corner corner now .




Still stand by my op tho ...

+1
agree with all that. had a guy come into the game- just started who said he was copying his pve guild from andy s and fengrush - a stam sorc- that had no vigor and 16k health. tbs and vo- that he had farmed / carried thru at cp200. he d gotten all that gear- before doing a single normal dungeon and jumped straight from that to vet dungeons. thats like never learning to dreive and jumping into a ferrari cos hamilton did it. obviously we struggled and he got defensive- saying this is the build the best players use.

its not his fault - the game needs to help new players transition into content- there needs to be guidance into trial groups, etc.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

If you have ever been in a pug group with a guy that just copied a streamer build but keeps falling down on every boss despite the healer being fantastic then you would understand this post better .

Have you tried group finder recently? For every one of those players, you'll meet 50 light attack spammers, sword and board "dds" etc.

Id rather see people using streamers/content creators builds compared to dweebs In dungeons doing nothing but light attacking with bows. This even happens in vet.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I'm sorry, but given I've seen enough people get kicked for 'making they're own build' and not being good enough and being outright told to look one up, this is a classic case of the forum elite not having a handle on reality.

Reality check to you- These are perfectly fine reasons to kick people. In fact, I cannot think of a better reason to kick someone than their build being bad or them being bad at the game.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The reason people copy builds is a workable setup isn't really *** easy to come by. Or people just are not good enough to -create- something. Or, god forbid, they're style is light attacking because they like the original games.

There is nothing worse than a dps who only spams light attacks. Nothing. I can't think of anyone who I'd rather be in a party with less. I'd even prefer a tank who doesn't know how to taunt over a dps who only spams light attacks.

Assuming this isn't a troll, are you posting this, because this is in fact, your play style? lol

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I'm sorry, but given I've seen enough people get kicked for 'making they're own build' and not being good enough and being outright told to look one up, this is a classic case of the forum elite not having a handle on reality.

Reality check to you- These are perfectly fine reasons to kick people. In fact, I cannot think of a better reason to kick someone than their build being bad or them being bad at the game.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The reason people copy builds is a workable setup isn't really *** easy to come by. Or people just are not good enough to -create- something. Or, god forbid, they're style is light attacking because they like the original games.

There is nothing worse than a dps who only spams light attacks. Nothing. I can't think of anyone who I'd rather be in a party with less. I'd even prefer a tank who doesn't know how to taunt over a dps who only spams light attacks.

Assuming this isn't a troll, are you posting this, because this is in fact, your play style? lol

...Considering I'm a tank no.

I posted this because of all the entitled pseudo theorycrafters who allways *** about how people are copying others instead of puting in the world. Just another kind of elitist.

I'd -like- for people to at least copy a blueprint before setting foot in a dungeon thanks. Either you just wanted a witchhunt or you need to learn to read.

ok, maybe the wording in your first post was just not to my liking

If you agree that apamming light attacks is not acceptable, then we agree.

If you believe that modeling your build after builds posted online is correct, then we agree.

Good luck out there.

Bogus premise.

Most streamers acknowledge non-streamers for builds or portions of builds.

Most streamers post in situ videos with their build videos that, if you actually pay attention, aren't using the build from the build videos...

Plenty of full time professionals know the mechanics but don't have time to integrate builds, but adapt and perfect playstyle within a couple of days.

Some mechanics have been over performing for years (shields, dodge) and most new meta builds simply provide the stats you need to keep doing the same old, same old. Builds like blobsky's 2h ulti build, gottbeard's blazing build and alcast's one shot builds are rare, go against conventional wisdom and are the only innovative approaches.

If you are talking to the average pug, carry on.

You're right, I am not as good as that streamer I copied my build from.

I'm better.

Sixsixsix161 wrote: »

I do a lot of research before I build a character, but I must say that I learned a lot tonight reading this post.

Back to the drawing board (I never had a character with a lot of health - i.e., 30K - mine was on the far opposite end lol).

I finished the game in early 2015 with a magsorc that had less than 13k health. Of course, there wasn't a lot of information back then and I played mainly solo, and finished the game and beat the big boss not even wearing a set.

But, I've learned stuff since then in every MMO I played, and now I have some more info that I wasn't aware of, before.

Thanks.

6

If trolling, 8/10 simply because not sure.

Alchemical wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

In fact, I cannot think of a better reason to kick someone than their build being bad or them being bad at the game.

Having a terrible attitude is a much better reason to kick someone. I don't care how good you are, if you're a d-hole I don't want to run anything with you. I'd rather carry the bad players than put up with it.

While this is a nice idea and all. It's not practical when it comes to actually playing the game. Being nice will get you exactly no where in vet dungeons if you suck.

When I first tried them I had no idea they were such a huge step up from regular dungeons. So I went in wearing blue/purple CP 160 gear that I'd picked up in the world, not really any sets and went in with my questing build. I tried, I was nice, but my damage was terrible. I'd say I as doing maybe 8k dps. And people knew exactly who it was that was holding the group back because I was a 25k health sorc with Clanfear and Matriarch out.

I got carried in my very first vet dungeon and then kicked form the next five. Two of them at the entrance. If a group can tell from the start that you're not optimal, be it health, certain spell effects, they'll remove you. Doesn't matter how nice you are.

So telling new players to check out builds, read guides, etc instead of just being the one in a bunch that doesn't care enough to kick is hurting them more than helping. The people who kicked me weren't even jerks about it. No one mocked me or anything. And then in the last group a guy actually sent me to a guide I could use. I swapped things around and haven't been kicked since because I can pull my own weight.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Since we have a new meta with Hotr , it is time to remind people of a difficult truth about copying builds .

The popular people that make build videos have a lot of time playing ESO and have learned to min/ max very well .They have PvP'd , ran trials and Dungeons so much they can almost do it asleep . The builds they post reflect that experience . Don't fool yourself this patch thinking you will just be able to copy and preform just as well .

Running zero health is a bad idea if you are not an expert at ESO game play . Do not be afraid to put points into health as a dead player does zero dps . So many people running zero health and expecting max damage to stay alive die all the time in trials and PVP . Put points in health until your survival skills improve . 30k is a better starting point then 20k unless you are highly experienced . Players that stay alive longer contribute more to a fight in the long run then a burst player that dies in the first couple minutes . Stop believing zero points in health is necessary to be good in ESO .

Mundus . Choose a mundus that compliments your play and not just your dps . If you are good with dps but bad at staying alive then go for a survival mundus over more dps . It is smarted to build yourself up towards your weaknesses then to compliment your strengths even further . If you are tanky and have good survivability then go for a damage mundus .

Streamers are a good source of information but not the end all of information . Their contributions should be taken with this common sense in mind that everyone plays different . Good luck everyone and try to stay alive in HoTR

All good points.

I have no way to make my point without sounding rude, but I guess I'll just say it: If a player was good enough to do the same as the streamer, then they probably would have figured the build out for themselves already. I've rarely seen one of these build videos that most of the top players I've come across in pve trial groups or top pvpers aren't already running.

They are often the best for nitpicking things when they drill down into numbers and test specifics like nirnhoned vs precise vs infused for example.

If you have to watch the video to get a build, you should just expect to practice a lot to pull off what you see them do in testing. I usually tank, so even on my dps builds (even if I've figured out what to wear myself) I'm still not as practiced at that role as what I've seen in some of the testing vids.

It's also worth noting that the game itself is a game of inches. Sometimes you'll see someone like Alcast say "it might not matter much if you run this vs that, you'll only give up 1% or something small" and they are right. But keep that in mind if you make that choice four or five times to go with the smaller damage option it will add up. BUT, as OP said, maybe that's best for you, maybe you need the defense, or the healing, or the resource management that a particular morph provides instead of just taking the straight high damage option. Nothing wrong with that (I often do as well) but you should realize you won't pull the numbers you see them pull and sometimes if a given attribute changes significantly, then the whole build will be thrown off (for example a high crit build and running shadow for extra crit damage won't be as good if that crit chance is too low, no matter how good you do your rotation).

You should definitely find players in game that pull off builds you like and bounce ideas off of them and seek advice. As I first said, most build videos I've seen are builds many players have come up with already, the streamer is just getting them out for mass consumption. So advice is out there, it doesn't have to be on video to be good (and just because it is on video doesn't mean it is).

I do not agree with the OP because of one mechanic: shields. Shields exist and are easy to use. When I was a newbie I spammed it mid rotation to make absolutely sure I didn't die. If you are a newbie that follows a build to the best of your ability but shields TOO MUCH, to the point that it hurts your rotation, that's still better than being dead. Or running around with 30k health.