Hard facts: You are probably not as good as that streamer you copied a build from

Rohamad_Ali

Since we have a new meta with Hotr , it is time to remind people of a difficult truth about copying builds .

The popular people that make build videos have a lot of time playing ESO and have learned to min/ max very well .They have PvP'd , ran trials and Dungeons so much they can almost do it asleep . The builds they post reflect that experience . Don't fool yourself this patch thinking you will just be able to copy and preform just as well .

Running zero health is a bad idea if you are not an expert at ESO game play . Do not be afraid to put points into health as a dead player does zero dps . So many people running zero health and expecting max damage to stay alive die all the time in trials and PVP . Put points in health until your survival skills improve . 30k is a better starting point then 20k unless you are highly experienced . Players that stay alive longer contribute more to a fight in the long run then a burst player that dies in the first couple minutes . Stop believing zero points in health is necessary to be good in ESO .

Mundus . Choose a mundus that compliments your play and not just your dps . If you are good with dps but bad at staying alive then go for a survival mundus over more dps . It is smarted to build yourself up towards your weaknesses then to compliment your strengths even further . If you are tanky and have good survivability then go for a damage mundus .

Streamers are a good source of information but not the end all of information . Their contributions should be taken with this common sense in mind that everyone plays different . Good luck everyone and try to stay alive in HoTR

Judas Helviaryn

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Since we have a new meta with Hotr , it is time to remind people of a difficult truth about copying builds .

The popular people that make build videos have a lot of time playing ESO and have learned to min/ max very well .They have PvP'd , ran trials and Dungeons so much they can almost do it asleep . The builds they post reflect that experience . Don't fool yourself this patch thinking you will just be able to copy and preform just as well .

Running zero health is a bad idea if you are not an expert at ESO game play . Do not be afraid to put points into health as a dead player does zero dps . So many people running zero health and expecting max damage to stay alive die all the time in trials and PVP . Put points in health until your survival skills improve . 30k is a better starting point then 20k unless you are highly experienced . Players that stay alive longer contribute more to a fight in the long run then a burst player that dies in the first couple minutes . Stop believing zero points in health is necessary to be good in ESO .

Mundus . Choose a mundus that compliments your play and not just your dps . If you are good with dps but bad at staying alive then go for a survival mundus over more dps . It is smarted to build yourself up towards your weaknesses then to compliment your strengths even further . If you are tanky and have good survivability then go for a damage mundus .

Streamers are a good source of information but not the end all of information . Their contributions should be taken with this common sense in mind that everyone plays different . Good luck everyone and try to stay alive in HoTR

My whole point when I tell people to invest fully into their resource of choice, is that it's easier to tweak your stats through enchantments on your small equipment pieces, rather than respeccing each time you change your sets.

People should always take build guides with a grain of salt, and use them as a baseline upon which to build their own personalized iterations. Learn from the method that gave you the build, not the resulting build itself.

Meld777

http://www.thenthan.com

casparian

+1; this needs to be said more.

For players looking to improve their performance, build matters, but only to a certain extent.

It's true that a bad build can ruin your chances of success. No matter how skillful you are, there's only so far you're going to get if you're running random mismatched pieces or Morkuldin on a magsorc. But once you have a decent build, the difference between what you currently have and the gear that streamers promote as BIS will be relatively small.

What will really improve your DPS (and survivability) is
- (a) practice a steady rotation
- (b) become familiar with the content

Both of these take a fair amount of time. But they will improve your performance by miles more than just slapping on this month's BIS gear will, and if you don't do these, this month's BIS won't do very much for you.

Vipstaakki

All i have to do to be better than anyone else is to play some ESO on twitch?

ookami007

I think you misstated your title:

"Hard facts: You are probably not as good as that streamer you copied a build from"

It should be:

Hard facts: You are definitely not as good as that streamer you copied a build from... otherwise you would make your own build"

templesus

So you want people in Cyrodiil to run around with 30k+ HP? -1

CavalryPK

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Since we have a new meta with Hotr , it is time to remind people of a difficult truth about copying builds .

The popular people that make build videos have a lot of time playing ESO and have learned to min/ max very well .They have PvP'd , ran trials and Dungeons so much they can almost do it asleep . The builds they post reflect that experience . Don't fool yourself this patch thinking you will just be able to copy and preform just as well .

Running zero health is a bad idea if you are not an expert at ESO game play . Do not be afraid to put points into health as a dead player does zero dps . So many people running zero health and expecting max damage to stay alive die all the time in trials and PVP . Put points in health until your survival skills improve . 30k is a better starting point then 20k unless you are highly experienced . Players that stay alive longer contribute more to a fight in the long run then a burst player that dies in the first couple minutes . Stop believing zero points in health is necessary to be good in ESO .

Mundus . Choose a mundus that compliments your play and not just your dps . If you are good with dps but bad at staying alive then go for a survival mundus over more dps . It is smarted to build yourself up towards your weaknesses then to compliment your strengths even further . If you are tanky and have good survivability then go for a damage mundus .

Streamers are a good source of information but not the end all of information . Their contributions should be taken with this common sense in mind that everyone plays different . Good luck everyone and try to stay alive in HoTR

My whole point when I tell people to invest fully into their resource of choice, is that it's easier to tweak your stats through enchantments on your small equipment pieces, rather than respeccing each time you change your sets.

People should always take build guides with a grain of salt, and use them as a baseline upon which to build their own personalized iterations. Learn from the method that gave you the build, not the resulting build itself.

I once tried running zero health. I died.

Jokes aside.. good post. I agree. listen to this guy please.

Bowser

Hard Fact: This is ZOS' reaction every time they get to nerf the meta

Qbiken

I will be the one defending copy/paste other players builds. If I see something I like I copy it and try it out for a few days/weeks. If I don´t like that version I change it. Don´t make it a bigger deal than it is.

LadyNalcarya

Well, honestly, copying streamers is a lesser evil. There are far worse superstitions, like "one must grind cp630 and then their dps magically raises to 40k" or "only magicka sorcs can join our nTrial run!".
This game lacks learning curve and doesnt really explain how to play it, so youtube build guides are pretty useful for people who dont have enough time or dedication to test for themselves.

As for "zero health", any semi-decent trial guide inlcudes some survivability tools, like shields, blade cloak, etc. They make those "zero health" characters quite sturdy. Pvp builds also range from full tanks to glass cannons so evryone can pick something that suits their playstyle.

DPShiro

30k health?!
I hope this is directed at tanks only

Tandor

If you can only play well by watching someone else's approach rather than pursuing your own exploration and trial and error approach then the chances are that you aren't going to do too well. It isn't just that the streamers are better players, they had the will to try different things out and find out what worked best for them. Simply copying them is no substitute for trying out stuff for yourself and finding out what works for you.

bebynnag

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, honestly, copying streamers is a lesser evil. There are far worse superstitions, like "one must grind cp630 and then their dps magically raises to 40k" or "only magicka sorcs can join our nTrial run!".
This game lacks learning curve and doesnt really explain how to play it, so youtube build guides are pretty useful for people who dont have enough time or dedication to test for themselves.

As for "zero health", any semi-decent trial guide inlcudes some survivability tools, like shields, blade cloak, etc. They make those "zero health" characters quite sturdy. Pvp builds also range from full tanks to glass cannons so evryone can pick something that suits their playstyle.

this

and also i would cry if i was trying to run a normal dundgeon or trial (training session) and all my DD's had 30K health!
20K is more than adequate!

Shardan4968

Some people just can't think for themselves and they need to copy others. I have a lot of fun with creating my own build and I don't need anyone to create MY character.

bebynnag

DPShiro wrote: »

30k health?!
I hope this is directed at tanks only

as usual - you post put a smile on my face!

LadyNalcarya

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Some people just can't think for themselves and they need to copy others. I have a lot of fun with creating my own build and I don't need anyone to create MY character.

Well, imo those build guides are like convenience food. Of course, if you cook your own food, it would be better than frozen pizza from supermarket, but if someone cant cook or doesnt have time, it provides an easy solution for them.
Also, they can just use premade builds as a starting point and them adjust them to their own playstyle. No one says that you must copy their build to the letter, you can always tweak it.

Danksta

It's pretty obvious that you should be aiming for a HP threshold that you feel comfortable with. For me, that's 17k health, for someone else it might be 20k health. It should never be 30k health unless we're talking about PvP or PvE tanking.

Rohamad_Ali

Everyone will have different opinions because of differences in experience . This post is aimed at those copying builds but still die very quickly . I see them in PVE and PVP and someone needs to let them know that reducing the dependence on higher health is a gradual learning experience . The goal maybe to get so good 17K health is sufficient but the starting point with some players needs to be raised .

Apologies if this post leads to less AP farming of pug piñatas in Cyrodiil but this one wishes more people to learn .

Tonnopesce

Yeah... Well... Ok.
But a dd with 25-30 k health probably have the same damage as one with 16k dead.

ZERO (or close to)

20-22 k is okish but only if you have the habit to stand in stupid all the day

ofSunhold

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Since we have a new meta with Hotr , it is time to remind people of a difficult truth about copying builds .

The popular people that make build videos have a lot of time playing ESO and have learned to min/ max very well .They have PvP'd , ran trials and Dungeons so much they can almost do it asleep . The builds they post reflect that experience . Don't fool yourself this patch thinking you will just be able to copy and preform just as well .

Running zero health is a bad idea if you are not an expert at ESO game play . Do not be afraid to put points into health as a dead player does zero dps . So many people running zero health and expecting max damage to stay alive die all the time in trials and PVP . Put points in health until your survival skills improve . 30k is a better starting point then 20k unless you are highly experienced . Players that stay alive longer contribute more to a fight in the long run then a burst player that dies in the first couple minutes . Stop believing zero points in health is necessary to be good in ESO .

Thirty thousand is a lot. Fights are going to take a while if people lower their own power that much.

I'd be pleased though if any single person who was planning to port into Cyro with a 14k health PvE trials build (with no self-heal) pauses to reflect on whether that's a great idea. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen with people who read this kind of thread on the forum though.

LadyNalcarya

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Everyone will have different opinions because of differences in experience . This post is aimed at those copying builds but still die very quickly . I see them in PVE and PVP and someone needs to let them know that reducing the dependence on higher health is a gradual learning experience . The goal maybe to get so good 17K health is sufficient but the starting point with some players needs to be raised .

Apologies if this post leads to less AP farming of pug piñatas in Cyrodiil but this one wishes more people to learn .

Lets be honest here... If theyre that bad in the game that they die all the time and cant do much damage in BiS gear, they wouldnt even be able to do anything with random mismatched gear and skills.

rhapsodious

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Yeah... Well... Ok.
But a dd with 25-30 k health probably have the same damage as one with 16k dead.

ZERO (or close to)

20-22 k is okish but only if you have the habit to stand in stupid all the day

Eh, not really. It gives you a cushion to practice your rotation and then once you're comfortable with mechanics and your rotation, you can put on the squishier-yet-harder-hitting gear and badabing badaboom, you got DPS baybee.

While you're learning, more health is usually a good idea, because a mistake isn't always the difference between life and death. I'd rather take an extra minute to kill the boss than constantly have a guy flopping over like a sack of wet sand while learning. Once you have the mechanics down, then you can work on optimization.

(Sorry, your last line wasn't there when I hit quote, I agree that's more reasonable of a number to aim for while learning - but it's not like if you have 25k health you're automatically struggling to push 20k.)

Waffennacht

He just wants easier kills, don't listen to him...

Run very low health in PvP...

Come on, do it!

LadyNalcarya

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Yeah... Well... Ok.
But a dd with 25-30 k health probably have the same damage as one with 16k dead.

ZERO (or close to)

20-22 k is okish but only if you have the habit to stand in stupid all the day

If the one with 16k actually read the guide hes using, he would have a shield or vigor+blade cloak...
And if he cant even copy a build properly, he would be very much dead with 20-25k as well.

Merlin13KAGL

You're talking about a 4 man bad group here. You shouldn't need an extra 10k cushion on most content, even if your tank, dps, and heals are making the occasional mistake.

You are correct, though, you will have lots more time to practice your rotation with your lowered damage output.

17k will keep you from one-shots. If you need double that, you're still going to die. It's just going to take twice as long.

You'll improve by developing better situational awareness. Having that extra extra cushion will simply reinforce that the mistakes you're making (that would otherwise kill you) are perfectly acceptable to make.

Nyghthowler

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

pug piñatas

I vote this as the Phrase of the day!

Rohamad_Ali

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Yeah... Well... Ok.
But a dd with 25-30 k health probably have the same damage as one with 16k dead.

ZERO (or close to)

20-22 k is okish but only if you have the habit to stand in stupid all the day

If the one with 16k actually read the guide hes using, he would have a shield or vigor+blade cloak...
And if he cant even copy a build properly, he would be very much dead with 20-25k as well.

This is the most common misconception in this community . That "reading" a build equates to experience . It does not . The variables of every stun , off balance , silenced , rooted petrified , zerged down , chained , ganked and many more can never be fully covered in a tutorial build video .

This is where giving yourself a buffer to learn how the new build operates in every condition comes in handy . This is a New Meta and New Metas are where people are learning . Hence the reason for this post .

gard

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Some people just can't think for themselves and they need to copy others. I have a lot of fun with creating my own build and I don't need anyone to create MY character.

Well, imo those build guides are like convenience food. Of course, if you cook your own food, it would be better than frozen pizza from supermarket, but if someone cant cook or doesnt have time, it provides an easy solution for them.
Also, they can just use premade builds as a starting point and them adjust them to their own playstyle. No one says that you must copy their build to the letter, you can always tweak it.

You vastly overestimate my cooking skills.

LadyNalcarya

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Yeah... Well... Ok.
But a dd with 25-30 k health probably have the same damage as one with 16k dead.

ZERO (or close to)

20-22 k is okish but only if you have the habit to stand in stupid all the day

If the one with 16k actually read the guide hes using, he would have a shield or vigor+blade cloak...
And if he cant even copy a build properly, he would be very much dead with 20-25k as well.

This is the most common misconception in this community . That "reading" a build equates to experience . It does not . The variables of every stun , off balance , silenced , rooted petrified , zerged down , chained , ganked and many more can never be fully covered in a tutorial build video .

This is where giving yourself a buffer to learn how the new build operates in every condition comes in handy . This is a New Meta and New Metas are where people are learning . Hence the reason for this post .

I'm not trying to say that a build video can replace players experience.
But the thing is, starting with something is better than starting from scratch. And if a player has at least a basic understanding of dps rotations, buffs etc, he would be still better than a light attacking guy who equipped heavy armor because it used to be effective in Skyrim.
Thats especially important in pvp. Obviously its more situational and reaction-based than pve, but a person who doesnt have a clue about their skills and stats can only be cannon fodder. The ones whose builds make sense at least have a chance to defeat other average players.
Of course, this is not the best solution. But the game doesnt teach players, and youtubers (like Alcast, for example) do.

That said, I find the cults around some of the streamers quite ridiculous.

Jamini

Is this directed at PvP or PvE? Because if you have 30k health in PvE as a DPS or Healer... you are going to be seriously be doing garbage damage. Like, 10k tops.

Going much over 20k is far overkill for pretty much all content, even 20k is fairly high unless you are running a healer (who are ideally in the 18-22k range) or a tank (which should be in the 28-40k range)

In PvP you need to add 5k to everyone's health unless you are in no-CP, and 25k is perfectly acceptable as you can expect more damage thrown your way. Going over 32-35k is still ill-advised for non-tank builds however.