Harassment. Is there anything to be done about it?

DaveMoeDee · January 2016

Cuyler wrote: »

Glaiceana wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

There are many players who use the report features, but far more who do not - which is why we take opportunities like this to promote them. Similarly, it's quite common for people to be unaware of the ignore feature, especially here on the forums where they were not initially available. We understand that some players would like to see more options, and as always welcome this feedback and discussion.

@ZOS_AlanG I have noticed that for in game reports, your details and message gets cut short. I have made several reports (not on harassment though), that describe in depth the problem. However, when I go to see my list of tickets, only a fraction of the start of my report is listed. Therefore anyone viewing this report would get very little information. What this means is that every ticket in my overview in my support account is nearly invalid, since only part of the subject is shown. I then have to retype the rest of my message from memory that I had typed in game into the browser instead. Can you expand on this?

EDIT: Adding this image to show what I mean as example:

This report was made about a graphical glitch that everyone could see. I had written down everything about the location etc. BUT, as you can see, only part of the report is visible, only the start of the message got through to the system from in game. Therefore making it a useless report. There is no other information. This was the first report I made, and have since forgotten the location, therefore cannot add the missing information now.

IIRC the report dialogs are truncated to 140 characters. I think a lot of bugs and harassment reports go un-reported simply because of this reason. The info gets cut-off. ZOS should include a statement in the dialog box that clearly states 140 characters.

Does the info get cut off in the report, or does it just get cut off in the confirmation that is displayed? It makes sense to not show the entire text in a verification UI because it complicates presentation. That doesn't mean that all the content isn't in a ticket somewhere.

Lysette · January 2016

Göttermutter wrote: »

I think you are not a strong woman with power, so a reaction of disharmony and pervertion will bring every women in rage and to react on it.
I say my meanings since i am existe in MMO`s and get my respects. For that i also get banned, but this is the problem of makers, not mys.
In my meanings and reconstruction on this, so less than 2% -let it be 5% today- play MMO`s as real womens. Think about it and than you can write me back your solutions to a woman, who played trough over 2o years.

Seriously?- What could an immature boy say to me what would make me react in such a way. And what can he do in a game like this - make a little visual noise, but that's it - I can just ignore that as well and read the forums meanwhile, he will stop at some point, because boys are not persistent in their doings and get bored rather quickly. I just don't let it get to me. And with this I end my contribution to this thread, because I think you are trying to annoy me with your comments, and I won't let you.

MornaBaine · January 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Göttermutter wrote: »

I think you are not a strong woman with power, so a reaction of disharmony and pervertion will bring every women in rage and to react on it.
I say my meanings since i am existe in MMO`s and get my respects. For that i also get banned, but this is the problem of makers, not mys.
In my meanings and reconstruction on this, so less than 2% -let it be 5% today- play MMO`s as real womens. Think about it and than you can write me back your solutions to a woman, who played trough over 2o years.

Seriously?- What could an immature boy say to me what would make me react in such a way. And what can he do in a game like this - make a little visual noise, but that's it - I can just ignore that as well and read the forums meanwhile, he will stop at some point, because boys are not persistent in their doings and get bored rather quickly. I just don't let it get to me. And with this I end my contribution to this thread, because I think you are trying to annoy me with your comments, and I won't let you.

I don't think Göttermutter is trying to annoy you but I think there's a bit of a language barrier though Divines know she's better at English than many another who claims it as their mother tongue. LOL I do think (and she can correct me if I'm wrong) that what she's trying to get across is that women (or ANY player for that matter) shouldn't have to "take it" when they are being abused and should be permitted to "fight back" against their harassers without fear of censure. While your own response to such shenanigans is certainly level headed and I'd not tell you to change since it works for you and you're comfortable with it, I have to agree that it really shouldn't be the only thing that "works." The tools to combat harassment need to be put into the hands of players and a visual ignore function would do exactly that with zero potential of "unfairness" to anyone, harassed and harassers alike.

Lysette · January 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Göttermutter wrote: »

I think you are not a strong woman with power, so a reaction of disharmony and pervertion will bring every women in rage and to react on it.
I say my meanings since i am existe in MMO`s and get my respects. For that i also get banned, but this is the problem of makers, not mys.
In my meanings and reconstruction on this, so less than 2% -let it be 5% today- play MMO`s as real womens. Think about it and than you can write me back your solutions to a woman, who played trough over 2o years.

Seriously?- What could an immature boy say to me what would make me react in such a way. And what can he do in a game like this - make a little visual noise, but that's it - I can just ignore that as well and read the forums meanwhile, he will stop at some point, because boys are not persistent in their doings and get bored rather quickly. I just don't let it get to me. And with this I end my contribution to this thread, because I think you are trying to annoy me with your comments, and I won't let you.

I don't think Göttermutter is trying to annoy you but I think there's a bit of a language barrier though Divines know she's better at English than many another who claims it as their mother tongue. LOL I do think (and she can correct me if I'm wrong) that what she's trying to get across is that women (or ANY player for that matter) shouldn't have to "take it" when they are being abused and should be permitted to "fight back" against their harassers without fear of censure. While your own response to such shenanigans is certainly level headed and I'd not tell you to change since it works for you and you're comfortable with it, I have to agree that it really shouldn't be the only thing that "works." The tools to combat harassment need to be put into the hands of players and a visual ignore function would do exactly that with zero potential of "unfairness" to anyone, harassed and harassers alike.

I am as well for such a visual ignore button, I stated that several times - but I am not for the current mentality of especially women in england to cry "abuse" anytime for anything. I am just not willing to put myself in the shoes of a victim, I am not a victim, I am perfectly able to handle this like an adult and I do not need men to protect me - I can handle this on my own.

Göttermutter · January 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Göttermutter wrote: »

I think you are not a strong woman with power, so a reaction of disharmony and pervertion will bring every women in rage and to react on it.
I say my meanings since i am existe in MMO`s and get my respects. For that i also get banned, but this is the problem of makers, not mys.
In my meanings and reconstruction on this, so less than 2% -let it be 5% today- play MMO`s as real womens. Think about it and than you can write me back your solutions to a woman, who played trough over 2o years.

Seriously?- What could an immature boy say to me what would make me react in such a way. And what can he do in a game like this - make a little visual noise, but that's it - I can just ignore that as well and read the forums meanwhile, he will stop at some point, because boys are not persistent in their doings and get bored rather quickly. I just don't let it get to me. And with this I end my contribution to this thread, because I think you are trying to annoy me with your comments, and I won't let you.

I discripted it before, learn to read!

Lysette · January 2016

Ok, I will write it in german, maybe then you will get it - wenn du darauf reagierst in einer Weise, die ihn angreift (was du "fight back" nennst), dann tust du genau das, was er erreichen wollte, und du gibst ihm Genugtuung. Es ist falsch so zu reagieren. Es einfach zu ignorieren und damit ihm diese Genugtuung zu verweigern ist wie man es angehen sollte. Stolz ist hier fehl am Platze, und zu kämpfen ist sinnlos, weil du änderst ihn damit nicht, er hat nur erreicht, was er wollte, eine ärgerliche Reaktion von dir zu erzielen.

Göttermutter · January 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Göttermutter wrote: »

I think you are not a strong woman with power, so a reaction of disharmony and pervertion will bring every women in rage and to react on it.
I say my meanings since i am existe in MMO`s and get my respects. For that i also get banned, but this is the problem of makers, not mys.
In my meanings and reconstruction on this, so less than 2% -let it be 5% today- play MMO`s as real womens. Think about it and than you can write me back your solutions to a woman, who played trough over 2o years.

Seriously?- What could an immature boy say to me what would make me react in such a way. And what can he do in a game like this - make a little visual noise, but that's it - I can just ignore that as well and read the forums meanwhile, he will stop at some point, because boys are not persistent in their doings and get bored rather quickly. I just don't let it get to me. And with this I end my contribution to this thread, because I think you are trying to annoy me with your comments, and I won't let you.

I don't think Göttermutter is trying to annoy you but I think there's a bit of a language barrier though Divines know she's better at English than many another who claims it as their mother tongue. LOL I do think (and she can correct me if I'm wrong) that what she's trying to get across is that women (or ANY player for that matter) shouldn't have to "take it" when they are being abused and should be permitted to "fight back" against their harassers without fear of censure. While your own response to such shenanigans is certainly level headed and I'd not tell you to change since it works for you and you're comfortable with it, I have to agree that it really shouldn't be the only thing that "works." The tools to combat harassment need to be put into the hands of players and a visual ignore function would do exactly that with zero potential of "unfairness" to anyone, harassed and harassers alike.

This is not the point and the solution, because itwill not work. Every boy or man, who mean to harasse me, get his points back by my overreacting or lets say by my own business and he comes never again on the idear to follow me, or to reakt like a pupertäre guy, asking me nonsens abot my sexual live and so on, this are my standards and i gave some examples of it and can fill 1oo pages here with it, how it works, but the game culture changed and the users get more pervertet than in other existing games before wow, so the top of undisqualified MMO players of the new generation are still hanging on.
Edit: I like i sayed before, the problems come not over by a birdy flys over the sky, they come from the makers!

MornaBaine · January 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

First let me state emphatically that I also am a Libertarian, but how you managed to twist my words into victim blaming and a massive story about sexual assault I'll never know.

I posited the scenario I did because it seemed clear to me that you were not considering the wider issue and did not understand just how vile this behavior is and can be.

nimander99 wrote: »

I haven't victim blamed at all, and now I urge you to actually read what I wrote.

If the harassment is against the ROC then report it for sure!

You can only be harmed by trolls and bullies and people online if you let them have power over you!

You think that you have not victim blamed but by putting the onus of dealing with the problem ON the victim rather than on the perpetrator, and it does not matter if we are talking real world physical assault or the psychological assault common to video games, that really is exactly what you are doing. I doubt you realize it and I don't think for a minute that you are a malicious jerk. It just seems to me that you haven't thought this through to its logical conclusion. The real world has very little actual justice. But the tools exist to have it here in our virtual reality...if only the powers that be will put them in the hands of the players. That's all most of us are asking for. We shouldn't HAVE to run away and "not let it get to us."

nimander99 wrote: »

When I say err on the side of caution of free speech I DO NOT include in that speech of threats or suggestion of threats and all that entails.

And all I'm saying is that I don't think we should concern ourselves with specific types of "bad behavior" so that we have to judge whether or not we're potentially violating the principle pf "free speech." Free speech is absolutely not at issue here. If I pop into chat and wish everyone a wonderful shiny day full of unicorns and rainbows and that annoys the sweet bejesus out of someone, they absolutely have the "right" to put me on ignore and not be bothered by my excessive cheerfulness ever again.

nimander99 wrote: »

I'll go back to my original point, if we, the people who do not act like jerks band together and not only ignore but actively work together as a community to ostracize those in the community acting horridly by completely ignoring them (and report away if what they are doing is against ZoS RoC) then we improve the atmosphere ourselves and do not have to rely solely on ZoS to be the police.

Its all about the Golden Rule.

These people doing these hurtful things will never stop unless they are completely ignored, so, unfortunately the onus is on the more mature party to ignore said horrid behavior which is not victim blaming. And I am ONLY speaking of interaction in the digital world, that's it! I am not at all speaking to anything irl.

And two people who agree with each other shouldn't be in contention with each other...

What you're still failing to understand though is that situations exist where "just ignoring them" doesn't work because we don't have the ability to ACTUALLY ignore them. When ZOS finally gives us that it'll be a completely different ballgame. You won't even NEED to report the TOS-breaking idiots and ZOS won't NEED to do anything about them. As it stands now though, the current system of reporting is woefully ineffective and insufficient. And that's really why this thread exists in the first place.

I agree that we should not be in contention but I would encourage you to urge ZOS to take ownership of this problem and fix it (because they CAN) rather than telling the player community what they should do according to you. Assume there's an event going on with a bunch of players in attendance. Some toolbag happens upon it and starts spamming all the flashy and noisy abilities at their disposal, completely distracting everyone and wrecking their enjoyment and participation. And they do this for anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour. Even if they never type out a single thing in chat, they have ruined the experience of several players which is a clear violation of the TOS. And I do not think it is reasonable to tell ALL those people that they need to go have a cup of coffee and read the forums for 15 minutes or port to a different location. After our exchange, do you still think that's a reasonable answer to the problem?

Cherryblossom · January 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

I really do hope that Zeni is going to start taking this issue seriously and that they will finally admit that their current "system" is wholly inadequate. And then actually do something about it.

you mean ignoring a person so they can never contact you again is not enough? What exactly do you propose, may be a test before people are allowed to buy the game!

Lysette · January 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I really do hope that Zeni is going to start taking this issue seriously and that they will finally admit that their current "system" is wholly inadequate. And then actually do something about it.

you mean ignoring a person so they can never contact you again is not enough? What exactly do you propose, may be a test before people are allowed to buy the game!

I think a feature like the console command "disable" in single-player TES games is wanted - where you can just make that person disappear from your screen, never to be seen again. This of course will just work in PvE zones, in PvP zones you would still have to live with it.

MornaBaine · January 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I really do hope that Zeni is going to start taking this issue seriously and that they will finally admit that their current "system" is wholly inadequate. And then actually do something about it.

you mean ignoring a person so they can never contact you again is not enough? What exactly do you propose, may be a test before people are allowed to buy the game!

Hello newcomer who has obviously not read through the thread and does not understand the problem. Yes, we have the chat /ignore option and that's excellent and important. What we DON'T have is a visual ignore option and that is what is needed. Because harassment is just as likely to take the form of someone following you around and spamming all their loudest and most flashy abilities, disrupting your gameplay and experience, not to mention your enjoyment of a product you've paid for just like them. That's the issue I am asking ZOS to address. Not only do we need the ability to never see their chat again, we need the ability to never SEE THEM again.

Cherryblossom · January 2016

BabeestorGor wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

istateres wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

Nilmot wrote: »

Run to nearest wayshrine, which are within a minute or 2 from basically everywhere, and port to anywhere else. Do your banking, selling, repairing, then go back. Pram solved.

Cant do that, they wont have a reason to get upset then...cmon now.

You are the problem, not the solution. Suggesting the solution is to leave, IS feeding the troll. ==

What?

No, its not. it is solving the problem yourself, without making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If it bothers YOU, then YOU solve it.

What is with this generation of hand holders? Got a problem that you can SOLVE YOURSELF? (and yes, all these people have the means to solve it themselves) then put on your big boy/girl pants and DO IT.

But no...lets blame ZOS....so crazy and immature....

Sorry, but "I" am the problem? Could not disagree with you more, but to each their own.

How do you suggest we solve it?
Leave the area is a victory for the harrasser
Ignoring them doesn't work very well if they are interfering with what you're trying to do
Being abusive back to them or naming and shaming aren't options, they just risk the victim being the one who gets banned
The only solution open to us is report the matter to ZOS and hope they take action

I think it's been explained how to solve the issue yourself, quite simply, by all means report the player, then put them on ignore, move away (use a transit to anywhere). Before you say moving away means they win, no it doesn't you have just taken away their fun! By moving away they have lost their enjoyment.
More importantly you are not going to get a resolution from ZOS in a couple of minutes, they have to investigate the matter, how do they know the person reporting hasn't already engaged the person they are reporting in a similar conversation before and they are just continuing think it's ok.
Reporting can also be used to harrass, how about if someone takes offense to one person somewhere then gets all their friends to report that person! Is it fair that the person gets banned for nothing?

People if they feel they are being harassed should firstly report if they want, then take actions themselves to remove the harassment with the tools available to them, there many posts explaining what to do..

Göttermutter · January 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I really do hope that Zeni is going to start taking this issue seriously and that they will finally admit that their current "system" is wholly inadequate. And then actually do something about it.

you mean ignoring a person so they can never contact you again is not enough? What exactly do you propose, may be a test before people are allowed to buy the game!

Hello newcomer who has obviously not read through the thread and does not understand the problem. Yes, we have the chat /ignore option and that's excellent and important. What we DON'T have is a visual ignore option and that is what is needed. Because harassment is just as likely to take the form of someone following you around and spamming all their loudest and most flashy abilities, disrupting your gameplay and experience, not to mention your enjoyment of a product you've paid for just like them. That's the issue I am asking ZOS to address. Not only do we need the ability to never see their chat again, we need the ability to never SEE THEM again.

What is the different between a visual ignore and a ignore by chat, you run over in mistakes who doesnt bring the ballon to the top. For me its the same and i say before in this thread, dont let to play user to much sherifs.
A mmo doesent work on the principles, you cant see me, so you cant harass me or other thinks. a MMo exists on players, who knew how to play an mmo, others should get kicked out, like a wow manager said, an ex one, he is ashamed. This says more than 1ooo words here and brings the nail back in the wall of exusings and wrong missunderstandings.
The fault lies also in the forum politics who get the wrong therms since the beginning, this is sayed also before the game starts realy, but the clever peoples who have always the light on on problems get better banned because some manager can not handle with it, that some peoples are cleverer than they and bring on therms, they want not to hear. They performed you to loveboys and create you to a unspeactulary community since a forum of mmo exists.

Jaybe_Mawfaka · January 2016

Rofl, I know that feeling. One pretty famous guy on eu ( will not share the name though ) said that Нitler should have killed all of my ancestry in the Second World War for being russians and that he wants to kill my family by himself and stuff like this because I earned more alliance points then his friend to get emperor once.So guess what? After 1 month, more than 20 reports from different players including screenshots and "We will take approciate action" reply spam he is still playing like nothing wrong happened and it is a normal practice.
Do not misunderstand me though lol, I'm just saying about feeling how hard are they working to "take approciate action".
Draw conclusions.

Göttermutter · January 2016

Yes, right. I heared from him but this story is long ago and he doesent land on my ignore list, because he was a flattering fly with no backrounds and laughable.
My ignore list is empty, because no one whispering me, i dont allow and if i tell you what words are falling down against me, so i make it public and all laugh and the end of the story is, become a old school and "loveboys" are out!

MornaBaine · January 2016

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

Rofl, I know that feeling. One pretty famous guy on eu ( will not share the name though ) said that Нitler should have killed all of my ancestry in the Second World War for being russians and that he wants to kill my family by himself and stuff like this because I earned more alliance points then his friend to get emperor once.So guess what? After 1 month, more then 20 reports from different players including screenshots and "We will take approciate action" reply spam he is still playing like nothing wrong happened and it is a normal practice.
Do not misunderstand me though lol, I'm just saying about feeling how hard are they working to "take approciate action".
Draw conclusions.

Yeah this also points out why the "please report to us and we'll take appropriate action" line is insufficient. Too often it appears that "appropriate action" on the part of ZOS is no action at all and that their policy against telling you what, if any, action was taken against players who break TOS is just an excuse to hide the fact that, far more often than not, they aren't doing anything. Even a self report of, "Hey players, we banned X number of players in 2015 for violations of TOS harassment rules/code of conduct so please be aware that such behavior is actionable," would go a long way towards establishing some credibility. And might actually give the perpetrators of abuse some pause.

CherryCake · January 2016

Well I am a bit confused, because I also do the thing where I put my flashiest abilities together with other players at wayshrines, just *showing off* what spells we have etc

and I have a Fat Khajiit that loves dancing naked (well with his pants on) around people xD... Sure when a wood elf chick does it is sexy but when I do it its creepy and immoral ;__;.
Could that get me banned? Because then I will stop doing it ;__;...

MornaBaine · January 2016

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

Well I am a bit confused, because I also do the thing where I put my flashiest abilities together with other players at wayshrines, just *showing off* what spells we have etc and I have a Fat Khajiit that loves dancing naked (well with his pants on) around people xD... Sure when a wood elf chick does it is sexy but when I do it its creepy and immoral ;__;.
Could that get me banned? Because then I will stop doing it ;__;...

Are you following people around and do it to annoy them or disrupt their play? Do you run over and do it whenever you see a group of players gathered somewhere? If the answer is yes, then yeah, you need to stop that.

CherryCake · January 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

Are you following people around and do it to annoy them or disrupt their play? Do you run over and do it whenever you see a group of players gathered somewhere? If the answer is yes, then yeah, you need to stop that.

No of course not xD, I do it with other players at wayshrines, but people can get offended from anything nowdays so yeah... xD

MornaBaine · January 2016

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Are you following people around and do it to annoy them or disrupt their play? Do you run over and do it whenever you see a group of players gathered somewhere? If the answer is yes, then yeah, you need to stop that.

No of course not xD, I do it with other players at wayshrines, but people can get offended from anything nowdays so yeah... xD

If someone is at a wayshine I'd think it's safe to say they aren't going to be there long. So in that case I wouldn't worry about it.

istateres · January 2016

Sunah wrote: »

Sadly this is the internet and 80% of people will be like this for no apparent reason. What makes them get off is your responses, so best thing to do is ignore them and port somewhere else and get a snack or use the bathroom. Once you get back to that spot they should be gone.

If your solution is to have the victim do something else, you are wrong. It's NOT their fault. I'm not saying it isn't effective in ending some issues (doesn't always work); but its wrong headed.

Will women get fewer cat calls if they wear 'Puritan" cloths? Sure. Is that what you would suggest to your wife? Daughter? Mother? NO, they are not the problem. Nor is the solution to just leave the area!

We've asked for a Visual Ignore, so we can continue to play the game with less harrasment/bulling. Many posters aren't supportive because:

A) Think this is no big deal, it's just a game.

Think the victim should just deal with it (leave the area, etc.).
C) Aren't bothered by similar events, so the OP shouldn't be.

Ask yourself, would you say the same thing to a family member in an RL situation?

CherryCake · January 2016

I also do sometimes that I go near people where they fight and heal them without fighting, but I guess that is ok as well? However it is quite flashy ;__;...

Lysette · January 2016

My personal experience with GMs of MMOs - given that I know just a few MMOs - is, that they won't do anything really against it, because the amount of people reporting is just too high and there is too less staff to investigate the issue properly. What might happen is a temporary ban, which might or might not hit the wrong person as well. So this is not really a solution.

Having a visual ignore would solve the main issue for many and would not require GM activity. So this is reasonable to suggest to ZOS. And ZOS could show by implementing it, that they take the issue seriously and that it is not just a statement in their TOS to be legally on the safe side. But as long as they have not done anything to enforce it, the best is really to ignore it and go away or just play static doll for a while. To get angry about it and argue with or fight the harasser is not a solution.

So, please, ZOS, take this more seriously - it cannot be that hard to implement a visual ignore as well.

Göttermutter · January 2016

I am sure you will find a game with MMO contents who will doing that, maybe called "phantomas"!

MrDerrikk · January 2016

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

I also do sometimes that I go near people where they fight and heal them without fighting, but I guess that is ok as well? However it is quite flashy ;__;...

Don't worry, we can tell that you're not the sort of person who would do this. We're referring to the people who are obviously going out of their way to ruin your day through proper harassment; what you're describing are things some people find annoying, but everyone does them

one of my favorite pastimes whilst waiting for a dailies group is to spam Eruption on as many people at the Stormhaven Wayshrine as possible

Glaiceana · January 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Glaiceana wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

There are many players who use the report features, but far more who do not - which is why we take opportunities like this to promote them. Similarly, it's quite common for people to be unaware of the ignore feature, especially here on the forums where they were not initially available. We understand that some players would like to see more options, and as always welcome this feedback and discussion.

@ZOS_AlanG I have noticed that for in game reports, your details and message gets cut short. I have made several reports (not on harassment though), that describe in depth the problem. However, when I go to see my list of tickets, only a fraction of the start of my report is listed. Therefore anyone viewing this report would get very little information. What this means is that every ticket in my overview in my support account is nearly invalid, since only part of the subject is shown. I then have to retype the rest of my message from memory that I had typed in game into the browser instead. Can you expand on this?

EDIT: Adding this image to show what I mean as example:

This report was made about a graphical glitch that everyone could see. I had written down everything about the location etc. BUT, as you can see, only part of the report is visible, only the start of the message got through to the system from in game. Therefore making it a useless report. There is no other information. This was the first report I made, and have since forgotten the location, therefore cannot add the missing information now.

IIRC the report dialogs are truncated to 140 characters. I think a lot of bugs and harassment reports go un-reported simply because of this reason. The info gets cut-off. ZOS should include a statement in the dialog box that clearly states 140 characters.

Does the info get cut off in the report, or does it just get cut off in the confirmation that is displayed? It makes sense to not show the entire text in a verification UI because it complicates presentation. That doesn't mean that all the content isn't in a ticket somewhere.

Well this is why I asked for @ZOS_AlanG 's input. He wants feedback about the reporting system. It seems odd to me that it would only display part of the report you made. So until confirmed otherwise, I'll assume that the system is losing most of the information. It would be nice if it really is storing it somewhere but I'd need to know for sure.

Göttermutter · January 2016

Resumee is (by my opinion):
That you should not make players invisible, the ignore buttom is in the most details and the best option to cure a missunderstanding cooperations between players with different meanings.
Getting up players to sheriffs and so called ploitical correctness assumed players is the wrong way, because many of them reports all they could found out for themselfs as an incorrect action, because they have nether learned to play a MMO in its way and dont knew the rules.
To understand this right, also older games had problems with harassments but in other ways like here and this is in my opinion a wrong developping of a MMO after WoW comes out and "kids" get resumed to farcial players, who only press some buttoms to get a hero!
No thinking in playings reduce the brain to a smaller one like an insect and reduce the playing mechanics to a minimum ends in the effect of greater harassments against each others, because to press 2 buttoms is not the effective playstyle by the old school.
In other words, than the mind is low and keept low, the agressive option rise up ... if the mind get trimmed by a complicated system of playing a MMO, they have not the time to spuke around like pseudo insekts, because they have to think what is going on.
A inteligent structured MMO-Game helps all out to reduce their agressive hormones to a level of a minimum, because they must think in game and that makes a real MMO, not a pseudo one.
Saying that the Creator is in the most case the miserable one, is right and shows up how low developped games are and it shows also up, that to earn money is more important, than to bring out a clever game.
The structure here shows up this spirits at beginning and sailed the ship in the wrong direction at the beginning by less minded solutions in the management functions and in malefunctions by hearing to the older ones, who have more experiance in it than a softball.
The political correctness in a modern world finds today their answers by searching for the true and discuss the lies, getting build on it by peoples who get decorated for it.

ZOS_MollyH · January 2016

Hello all,

Multiple comments have had to be removed and edited in this thread again. We encourage lively discussion regarding in-game issues like this and as such wish to leave this thread open.

We encourage everyone participating to please review the Code of Conduct for the forums as continued trolling, baiting, and intentionally disruptive comments will not be tolerated. Continuing to disrupt the discussion may result in your account being actioned and the thread being closed.

nimander99 · January 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

First let me state emphatically that I also am a Libertarian, but how you managed to twist my words into victim blaming and a massive story about sexual assault I'll never know.

I posited the scenario I did because it seemed clear to me that you were not considering the wider issue and did not understand just how vile this behavior is and can be.

nimander99 wrote: »

I haven't victim blamed at all, and now I urge you to actually read what I wrote.

If the harassment is against the ROC then report it for sure!

You can only be harmed by trolls and bullies and people online if you let them have power over you!

You think that you have not victim blamed but by putting the onus of dealing with the problem ON the victim rather than on the perpetrator, and it does not matter if we are talking real world physical assault or the psychological assault common to video games, that really is exactly what you are doing. I doubt you realize it and I don't think for a minute that you are a malicious jerk. It just seems to me that you haven't thought this through to its logical conclusion. The real world has very little actual justice. But the tools exist to have it here in our virtual reality...if only the powers that be will put them in the hands of the players. That's all most of us are asking for. We shouldn't HAVE to run away and "not let it get to us."

nimander99 wrote: »

When I say err on the side of caution of free speech I DO NOT include in that speech of threats or suggestion of threats and all that entails.

And all I'm saying is that I don't think we should concern ourselves with specific types of "bad behavior" so that we have to judge whether or not we're potentially violating the principle pf "free speech." Free speech is absolutely not at issue here. If I pop into chat and wish everyone a wonderful shiny day full of unicorns and rainbows and that annoys the sweet bejesus out of someone, they absolutely have the "right" to put me on ignore and not be bothered by my excessive cheerfulness ever again.

nimander99 wrote: »

I'll go back to my original point, if we, the people who do not act like jerks band together and not only ignore but actively work together as a community to ostracize those in the community acting horridly by completely ignoring them (and report away if what they are doing is against ZoS RoC) then we improve the atmosphere ourselves and do not have to rely solely on ZoS to be the police.

Its all about the Golden Rule.

These people doing these hurtful things will never stop unless they are completely ignored, so, unfortunately the onus is on the more mature party to ignore said horrid behavior which is not victim blaming. And I am ONLY speaking of interaction in the digital world, that's it! I am not at all speaking to anything irl.

And two people who agree with each other shouldn't be in contention with each other...

What you're still failing to understand though is that situations exist where "just ignoring them" doesn't work because we don't have the ability to ACTUALLY ignore them. When ZOS finally gives us that it'll be a completely different ballgame. You won't even NEED to report the TOS-breaking idiots and ZOS won't NEED to do anything about them. As it stands now though, the current system of reporting is woefully ineffective and insufficient. And that's really why this thread exists in the first place.

I agree that we should not be in contention but I would encourage you to urge ZOS to take ownership of this problem and fix it (because they CAN) rather than telling the player community what they should do according to you. Assume there's an event going on with a bunch of players in attendance. Some toolbag happens upon it and starts spamming all the flashy and noisy abilities at their disposal, completely distracting everyone and wrecking their enjoyment and participation. And they do this for anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour. Even if they never type out a single thing in chat, they have ruined the experience of several players which is a clear violation of the TOS. And I do not think it is reasonable to tell ALL those people that they need to go have a cup of coffee and read the forums for 15 minutes or port to a different location. After our exchange, do you still think that's a reasonable answer to the problem?

You've given me something to think about today. I agree with your points and like I said, I'll bumble this around my brain as I'm out and about today and see if I can't come up with something helpful.

MornaBaine · January 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

First let me state emphatically that I also am a Libertarian, but how you managed to twist my words into victim blaming and a massive story about sexual assault I'll never know.

I posited the scenario I did because it seemed clear to me that you were not considering the wider issue and did not understand just how vile this behavior is and can be.

nimander99 wrote: »

I haven't victim blamed at all, and now I urge you to actually read what I wrote.

If the harassment is against the ROC then report it for sure!

You can only be harmed by trolls and bullies and people online if you let them have power over you!

You think that you have not victim blamed but by putting the onus of dealing with the problem ON the victim rather than on the perpetrator, and it does not matter if we are talking real world physical assault or the psychological assault common to video games, that really is exactly what you are doing. I doubt you realize it and I don't think for a minute that you are a malicious jerk. It just seems to me that you haven't thought this through to its logical conclusion. The real world has very little actual justice. But the tools exist to have it here in our virtual reality...if only the powers that be will put them in the hands of the players. That's all most of us are asking for. We shouldn't HAVE to run away and "not let it get to us."

nimander99 wrote: »

When I say err on the side of caution of free speech I DO NOT include in that speech of threats or suggestion of threats and all that entails.

And all I'm saying is that I don't think we should concern ourselves with specific types of "bad behavior" so that we have to judge whether or not we're potentially violating the principle pf "free speech." Free speech is absolutely not at issue here. If I pop into chat and wish everyone a wonderful shiny day full of unicorns and rainbows and that annoys the sweet bejesus out of someone, they absolutely have the "right" to put me on ignore and not be bothered by my excessive cheerfulness ever again.

nimander99 wrote: »

I'll go back to my original point, if we, the people who do not act like jerks band together and not only ignore but actively work together as a community to ostracize those in the community acting horridly by completely ignoring them (and report away if what they are doing is against ZoS RoC) then we improve the atmosphere ourselves and do not have to rely solely on ZoS to be the police.

Its all about the Golden Rule.

These people doing these hurtful things will never stop unless they are completely ignored, so, unfortunately the onus is on the more mature party to ignore said horrid behavior which is not victim blaming. And I am ONLY speaking of interaction in the digital world, that's it! I am not at all speaking to anything irl.

And two people who agree with each other shouldn't be in contention with each other...

What you're still failing to understand though is that situations exist where "just ignoring them" doesn't work because we don't have the ability to ACTUALLY ignore them. When ZOS finally gives us that it'll be a completely different ballgame. You won't even NEED to report the TOS-breaking idiots and ZOS won't NEED to do anything about them. As it stands now though, the current system of reporting is woefully ineffective and insufficient. And that's really why this thread exists in the first place.

I agree that we should not be in contention but I would encourage you to urge ZOS to take ownership of this problem and fix it (because they CAN) rather than telling the player community what they should do according to you. Assume there's an event going on with a bunch of players in attendance. Some toolbag happens upon it and starts spamming all the flashy and noisy abilities at their disposal, completely distracting everyone and wrecking their enjoyment and participation. And they do this for anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour. Even if they never type out a single thing in chat, they have ruined the experience of several players which is a clear violation of the TOS. And I do not think it is reasonable to tell ALL those people that they need to go have a cup of coffee and read the forums for 15 minutes or port to a different location. After our exchange, do you still think that's a reasonable answer to the problem?

You've given me something to think about today. I agree with your points and like I said, I'll bumble this around my brain as I'm out and about today and see if I can't come up with something helpful.

I appreciate your consideration. My #1 favorite solution to the problem of player harassment is the added ability to visually ignore any player you want along with the chat ignore function. And unless and until ZOS comes out and tells me flat out that they lack the know how or ability to supply this solution it is the one I am going to keep advocating for. And if they CANNOT (as opposed to WILL NOT) implement this solution then I will continue to advocate for more GMs and harsher penalties like permanent bans for a first offense that includes a screen shot of the offending speech OR a video of the offending behavior. This coupled with greater transparency of the process to include reports of number of players banned or otherwise sanctioned and a strong public statement FROM ZOS that this behavior breaks TOS and will result in permanent bans from the game. Because I'm really just OVER watching all the abuse, from the mild irritation types to some of the truly sickening and appalling things I have seen in this game.