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Change to sneak mechanics or change to Shadow Dancer's Raiment?
Since 1.3.3, the 5-piece bonus (Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking) only applies while fully hidden. This means that when you begin sneaking, there is a delay, and reduction in movement speed, until the "sneaky eye" closes all the way, at which point the speed reduction disappears as the set bonus kicks in.
I'd like to know if this difference is permanent or an unintended side-effect of a change in sneak mechanics. It's obvious (to me, anyway) that sneaking starts when you start to crouch, not necessarily after you're fully hidden. Shadow Dancer's is a lot less fun this new way as well.
I'd like to know if this difference is permanent or an unintended side-effect of a change in sneak mechanics. It's obvious (to me, anyway) that sneaking starts when you start to crouch, not necessarily after you're fully hidden. Shadow Dancer's is a lot less fun this new way as well.
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Iorail✭✭✭✭Working as intended because the bonus clearly says during sneak and you are not sneaking until the eye is fully close.0 -
Working as intended because the bonus clearly says during sneak and you are not sneaking until the eye is fully close.
Yes you are. You are sneaking any time you are crouching. What you are referring to is hiding, or being concealed, not sneaking.
Also, it does not appear to be "working as intended," as Nightblades report that using Shadowy Disguise also breaks the bonus effect, and that's clearly, unambiguously still in sneak mode. They have to completely un-stealth and re-stealth for the set bonus to kick in again. That can't possibly be working as intended.
This is a bug, or a change that should be mentioned in patch notes, at least, as it potentially affects all actions, bonuses, etc. that depend on hiding/sneaking.Edited by williamburr2001b14_ESO on August 8, 2014 4:42PM1 -
williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »Since 1.3.3, the 5-piece bonus (Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking) only applies while fully hidden. This means that when you begin sneaking, there is a delay, and reduction in movement speed, until the "sneaky eye" closes all the way, at which point the speed reduction disappears as the set bonus kicks in.
I'd like to know if this difference is permanent or an unintended side-effect of a change in sneak mechanics. It's obvious (to me, anyway) that sneaking starts when you start to crouch, not necessarily after you're fully hidden. Shadow Dancer's is a lot less fun this new way as well.
I want this addressed. Nothing in patch notes or otherwise addressed this. It is a bit of a lark, to me, as a Templar, but it seems like it would be a very important distinction (and a huge stealth nerf) to Nightblades.
Anyway. I was having fun. This change happened. The game is less fun. If it gets changed, I will renew my 6-mo. If not, I'm done. That's basically it.
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williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »Working as intended because the bonus clearly says during sneak and you are not sneaking until the eye is fully close.
Yes you are. You are sneaking any time you are crouching. What you are referring to is hiding, or being concealed, not sneaking.
Also, it does not appear to be "working as intended," as Nightblades report that using Shadowy Disguise also breaks the bonus effect, and that's clearly, unambiguously still in sneak mode. They have to completely un-stealth and re-stealth for the set bonus to kick in again. That can't possibly be working as intended.
This is a bug, or a change that should be mentioned in patch notes, at least, as it potentially affects all actions, bonuses, etc. that depend on hiding/sneaking.
Shadow Cloak (and both of it's morphs) says: Gives Player Invisibility for 2.5 second. Stealth and Invisibility are not synonymous. Veiled Strike says: "...if stealthed or invisible...". Both stealth speed increase armor sets (Night's Silence and Shadow Dancer) use the wordage "when sneaking". As you said yourself "You are sneaking any time you are crouching". While using Dark Cloak you can be either standing or crouching. The only difference between standing and crouching while invisible is that after the invisibility expires you are either stealthed or not stealthed.
I am fairly sure that you are not considered to be sneaking or stealthed until the eye closes. The passive Dark Stalker from the vampire line says "...allows player to enter stealth more quickly at night". This passive shortens the time it takes for the eye to close.0 -
ZOS_GaryA✭✭✭✭✭Hey @williamburr2001b14_ESO, we're currently speaking with some folks to see if this is by design. We'll be back with you once we have more info.0
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Hey @williamburr2001b14_ESO, we're currently speaking with some folks to see if this is by design. We'll be back with you once we have more info.
Thanks, that's very reassuring to hear. My next project is working on a Nightblade alt, and it would be very helpful to know the realities of the crouch/stealth/sneak system.
@0chaosconsumeus, I appreciate your interpretation, but don't you think you're really making a case for having this cleared up by the folks who build the mechanics? The best any of the rest of us, the players, can do is squint at the result, the effect and say "Gee I think it's working this way, and not that way." Shadow cloak breaks stealth even though you are still sneaking and if it's still working as it was back when I posted this, you have to hit a button to stop sneaking and hit another button to re-sneak from scratch to get it working again. That's not a difference between stealth and invisibility, that's just something wonky happening.
Personally I think it's weird to not be sneaking after hitting the crouch button, just from a common sense perspective. If you're not sneaking, what are you doing while "preparing to sneak?" Flexing? Stretching? Making a lot of air ninja kicks and psyching yourself up?
As it applies to Shadow Dancer's Raiment, the ability to change into sneak mode without breaking stride, without lowering your movement speed, was the only thing that made dedicating 5 armor slots to the set worth it. For 5 pieces, there are way more optimal bonuses to be had, but the PVE convenience of eliminating the hindrance was the quintessential benefit of Shadow Dancer. Since the change, the bonus is just an interesting artifact of an armor set nobody would ever want to use.Edited by williamburr2001b14_ESO on September 14, 2014 10:30PM0 -
I understand what you are saying and agree that a better explanation is needed so we can fully understand how the stealth and invisible mechanics actually work. I was simply attempting to show that with the information we do have via abilities and how they affect each other that invisibility and stealth are two different things. I do agree that stealth has some issues and is at times somewhat confusing.0
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FIIIIIIIXED! Hooooray! Huge quality of life improvement. Shadow Dancer is my favorite set, even though it's not really beneficial, stat-wise.
Thanks folks!0