Seroczynski wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

The ONLY game I have ever played where LOOT was "EPIC" was EQLive. That MIGHT be because you DID hold onto item for basically EVER. You really didn't get much gear in that game till toward the end when you started raiding and even then getting new gear was a blessing as 1 item would drop for 40+ people. AND gawd help you should your raid wipe EXPENSIVE in either money or time.

These days everybody feels entitled to have the best items in-game, whether they play 'hardcore' or not. That's a serious problem for MMO developers, as they will get a lot of hate from the majority if they start making things 'unique'.

I don't feel entitled to anything, other than getting my money's worth. I expect to feel a level of accomplishment when I get a legendary or a purple. In this game, I don't, and I don't even have to work particularly hard for them either, which is another issue. You need some semblance of a carrot. Something. What they have right now is a a great story...everything else is either lazy or a struggle.

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Seroczynski wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

The ONLY game I have ever played where LOOT was "EPIC" was EQLive. That MIGHT be because you DID hold onto item for basically EVER. You really didn't get much gear in that game till toward the end when you started raiding and even then getting new gear was a blessing as 1 item would drop for 40+ people. AND gawd help you should your raid wipe EXPENSIVE in either money or time.

These days everybody feels entitled to have the best items in-game, whether they play 'hardcore' or not. That's a serious problem for MMO developers, as they will get a lot of hate from the majority if they start making things 'unique'.

I don't feel entitled to anything, other than getting my money's worth. I expect to feel a level of accomplishment when I get a legendary or a purple. In this game, I don't, and I don't even have to work particularly hard for them either, which is another issue. You need some semblance of a carrot. Something. What they have right now is a a great story...everything else is either lazy or a struggle.

I agree, got a little off-topic there perhaps. Either way, purples these days don't mean (...). When I craft my gear I make it purple by default, or uncommon when I just want to try something out. I don't even use arcane equipment anymore. I don't even have a suggestion as to how they can improve this, as I don't see this will ever change. Perhaps with artifact items, but IIRC they said they will never have those drop (and only make them available through crafting).

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Players want to attach themselves to their characters and immerse themselves in the game. They want to feel that they've accomplished something...in some way or another. If I can wear greens from normal levels and still accomplish the same task at VR levels with relative ease, what's the incentive for me to even attempt to get anything new if it's all relative?

Seriously gear does NOT make your character. YOU make your character. The biggest reward of VR level is the improvement in you as a player!

Nothing is more satisfying than knowing that you and your group can do things today that you weren't able to yesterday. And in this game this happens because you have become a better player, not because your toon has gotten a new shiny.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Players want to attach themselves to their characters and immerse themselves in the game. They want to feel that they've accomplished something...in some way or another. If I can wear greens from normal levels and still accomplish the same task at VR levels with relative ease, what's the incentive for me to even attempt to get anything new if it's all relative?

Seriously gear does make your character. YOU make your character. The biggest reward of VR level is the improvement in you as a player!

Nothing is more satisfying than knowing that you and your group can do things today that you weren't able to yesterday. And in this game this happens because you have become a better player, not because your toon has gotten a new shiny.

This is very true. I am presently levelling my second NB and it is so much easier than it was first time round. Not because I have better weapons or armour. But because I KNOW more. Applying skill is much more effective than having a bigger sword in this game

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Players want to attach themselves to their characters and immerse themselves in the game. They want to feel that they've accomplished something...in some way or another. If I can wear greens from normal levels and still accomplish the same task at VR levels with relative ease, what's the incentive for me to even attempt to get anything new if it's all relative?

Seriously gear does NOT make your character. YOU make your character. The biggest reward of VR level is the improvement in you as a player!

Nothing is more satisfying than knowing that you and your group can do things today that you weren't able to yesterday. And in this game this happens because you have become a better player, not because your toon has gotten a new shiny.

This is the biggest load I've seen since the fan boy team descended upon the NB nerf thread. Look, you may be okay with 'just the experience' but I'm not okay with linear progression. I need to feel there's a purpose for me doing dungeons, trials, delves, and dolmens. It's not about the shiny. It's about the fact that I have never played an mmo where every 'gain' I get is non-existent. There should be a huge difference between VR12 gear and level 1 gear. Saying I did that is not enough. So did hundreds of other people. Big effing deal. My character should not feel like and look like it hits like a wet noodle when I get higher quality equipment. I shouldn't be able to go out in level 49 gear or VR1 gear in a VR 3/4 zone and still wipe mobs with ease. If there's no incentive to do the content, people will leave and have. I'm clearly not the only one dissatisfied and the main complaint about VR content...is VR content.

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Epic and Legendary grade gear does not feel that very awesome maybe because... in ESO actual gear has a limited impact compared to skills and synergies.

So, I believe, those 5 or 10 extra damage points from a Legendary grade weapon, or those extra 20 points of armour, is pretty small fish when you compare them to what you actually get from skills and ultimates, coupled with criticals too.

Sure, everything adds up, but I just don't think a full set of Legendary gear, compared to a lowly Common set (whites), would suddenly allow you to waste those toughies out there (say, VR mobs?) with ease. It is the skills that do that.

So much so, in some cases, that gear becomes almost "cosmetic", and I would not be surprised if someone demonstrated they could still do great with the absolute minimum of gear, even "lowbie level" gear.

In that sense, it is indeed rather disappointing that the feeling of "epicness" from gear is rather limited. I guess, ESO was designed like that, hence also the horrible imbalances everywhere (yes, the usual story, magicka, stamina, melee, "Harry Potters", and so on).

Bare in mind that if you are using the synergies between active and passive abilities that you dramatically increase your damage output and that also applies to the small improvements between different quality weapons. Sure just hitting a mob with a legendary sword wont give much more damage that an epic one but worked into an effective rotation that maximises all the synergies of your other abilities it will be significantly more. The game requires you to think to succeed not just whack the mob with a big sword.

Hilgara wrote: »

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Epic and Legendary grade gear does not feel that very awesome maybe because... in ESO actual gear has a limited impact compared to skills and synergies.

So, I believe, those 5 or 10 extra damage points from a Legendary grade weapon, or those extra 20 points of armour, is pretty small fish when you compare them to what you actually get from skills and ultimates, coupled with criticals too.

Sure, everything adds up, but I just don't think a full set of Legendary gear, compared to a lowly Common set (whites), would suddenly allow you to waste those toughies out there (say, VR mobs?) with ease. It is the skills that do that.

So much so, in some cases, that gear becomes almost "cosmetic", and I would not be surprised if someone demonstrated they could still do great with the absolute minimum of gear, even "lowbie level" gear.

In that sense, it is indeed rather disappointing that the feeling of "epicness" from gear is rather limited. I guess, ESO was designed like that, hence also the horrible imbalances everywhere (yes, the usual story, magicka, stamina, melee, "Harry Potters", and so on).

Bare in mind that if you are using the synergies between active and passive abilities that you dramatically increase your damage output and that also applies to the small improvements between different quality weapons. Sure just hitting a mob with a legendary sword wont give much more damage that an epic one but worked into an effective rotation that maximises all the synergies of your other abilities it will be significantly more. The game requires you to think to succeed not just whack the mob with a big sword.

Not about getting the bonuses of having legendary equipment either. Though, as previously stated, there should be huge differences as you progress and there isn't.
There's a sense of accomplishment be able to say, "Hey I got this title here," or "Look at muh epic lootz." With the classes as imbalanced and in some cases broken, many passives not applying properly or at all, and even set bonuses not working coherently, skill is not necessarily enough. Unless you want to keep being pigeon holed into this fotm or that fotm. Which is a whole other issue entirely.

I read about that someone V12 wanted to one shoot V5 players, and seriously made me chuckle.

First of all that ain't going to happen.

The initial game was designed to level 50 as end. And you could visit all other areas while all of them scaled at Level 50.

The "extra" veteran ranks, were an afterthought, since some QQ about "progress".

For me should have stopped at 50. And anything more, was down to resources, exploration and the Skill Points.

They made a mess of the content, classes and powercreep on that area. Trying to apply the same logic to PvP it will even make a bigger mess, to the rest who didn't bother with the VR areas.


Weapons.
I do not see the issue. It was stated very early, before release, that the best items made will be crafted and not drops.

As for the price of those items, is down to player base. On V5 started crafting blue items. Until then, I had crafted white items, maybe some odd weapon green.

I have hold enough purple & gold mats to make 2 full sets of armour & glyphs, without having bought anything. Salvaging and refining.

I am close to get to the 2nd Veteran area and that is the closure for my Templar.
I will rush through the content to get the skyshards, main line quest skill points and head to Cyrodiil permanetly. (around V8)

My current build is good enough to demolish any V12 player at Cyrodiil, especially in 1 v 1 content (yes I play a Khajiit Templar melee tank), while my "old" rag tag build at V1 was able to kick the buts of V8 DKs while I was using white items!!!!

And is down to my skill as player. Not the gear, and should stay as such if ZoS wants to have people playing the game few years down the road.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

I spent 32,000 gold making an artifact 2-handed sword for VR4 and the next day there was an equal-stat VR6 epic weapon for sale for for 900 gold. I thank the god damn anomaly farming that ruined the game economy for that.

That sounds like you may have wasted a lot of money on the upgrade mats, because they weren't that expensive before the farming started.

In general, making full artifact-quality gear before you hit VR12 is a little pointless at this stage in the game. You're going to replace your gear many times between VR4 and VR12. No point in wasting the rarest upgrade mats on those in-between stages.

And when the next update comes out and the level cap rises to VR14, as it seems highly likely, VR12 'epic' gear will become hugely wasted.

Fact is, ZOS' intention seems to be a never-ending raising of the level cap so forget any idea of being able to get BIS and e-peen on that for umpteen months before the cap rises again.

Thats what snipping me most.
Im.fine with a 5VR level raise every 6-12 months. But raising the VR every 2 months is just utter bullsnip.

Its just for real life loser who need progress in a game cause they dont get it in their jobs,school and so on.

Guild Wars did it totally right and it was absolutely enjoyable cause everything we need is just new content and new skins, but not new levels.

So someone can decide if he keeps his current max level equip and upgrades it to legendary and/or gathers the new skins.

The progamers will always have the newest skins first and can show how awesome they are and the nnormalgamers can stick to their hard earned not so fancy looking not so rare gear

Star Trek Online, I believe, also did it right. The leveling stops at 50, and that's it. You're a Vice Admiral, and congratulations, you're done leveling. After that, it's all just new end-game content (episodes) and challenges, and different gear sets and combos, rare stuff, etc. I actually look at 1-50 over there as "pre-game" and level 50 as "game", rather than ESO where you have "game" from 1-50 and "end-game" in the V ranks. I have yet to be "bored" playing content in that game, and I've been "stopped" at level 50 for months now.

The great part, as has been mentioned here, is that I don't have to worry about "out-leveling" my gear anymore, and thus can put in the time and effort to acquire or make rare level 50 stuff, knowing it won't be obsoleted next month as the grind re-commences for a new level cap.

Hilgara wrote: »

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Epic and Legendary grade gear does not feel that very awesome maybe because... in ESO actual gear has a limited impact compared to skills and synergies.

So, I believe, those 5 or 10 extra damage points from a Legendary grade weapon, or those extra 20 points of armour, is pretty small fish when you compare them to what you actually get from skills and ultimates, coupled with criticals too.

Sure, everything adds up, but I just don't think a full set of Legendary gear, compared to a lowly Common set (whites), would suddenly allow you to waste those toughies out there (say, VR mobs?) with ease. It is the skills that do that.

So much so, in some cases, that gear becomes almost "cosmetic", and I would not be surprised if someone demonstrated they could still do great with the absolute minimum of gear, even "lowbie level" gear.

In that sense, it is indeed rather disappointing that the feeling of "epicness" from gear is rather limited. I guess, ESO was designed like that, hence also the horrible imbalances everywhere (yes, the usual story, magicka, stamina, melee, "Harry Potters", and so on).

Bare in mind that if you are using the synergies between active and passive abilities that you dramatically increase your damage output and that also applies to the small improvements between different quality weapons. Sure just hitting a mob with a legendary sword wont give much more damage that an epic one but worked into an effective rotation that maximises all the synergies of your other abilities it will be significantly more. The game requires you to think to succeed not just whack the mob with a big sword.

Bingo, just getting better gear to beat bigger mobs is pointless. If with your better gear the bigger mob just stay as easy as the smaller mob were with the lesser sword then you have just replaced a key press with a keypress. YOU haven't achieved anything.

Honestly, I'd much rather have "epic" gear mostly LOOK "epic" w/ a slight stat point upgrade than simply be far and away better than anything else you can wear.

The power creep that was introduced through the gear treadmill over the past decade simply isn't very appealing. Feels better to me to remain at a competitive level w/ everyone else and let the way that I play my class be the reason I stand out, not the fact that I have a much higher stat budget than the guy beside me.

Why would you want anyone to look at your accomplishments and say "sure, but you only did that because you were wearing _____ OP items"?

Its pointless to spend time and money craft anything beyond blue. They just gonna keep upping the VR levels and anything you though you will use forever simply become crap after that.

Thats why they should have a leveling system for the equipments, and allow other changes to be made to them.

If I make an epic staff, I can up its ranks by doing xxx or yyy, and I can make changes to its trait, shape, etc.

this issue is more that a +1 and a +5 are too similar, not that you have to grind to get one............

stumpy999 wrote: »

mmmm

Clever people seem to be talking about balance etc.

But to return to the question;

Epic should = Epic

Gear there is uber over other gear has no place in a game like this. I have no problem with gear giving special skins for special rewards so people can see you beat the content but it should never ever be the gear that give power over the environment or other players in pvp!

Power should only come from being a good player.