3 months since launch! What do you think of crafting?

Rammi · June 2014

Hello All,

I wanted to start this discussion to get gamers impressions of crafting as a whole and its place in the game and as part of the economy. To be clear I want to define what crafting is in my context and I hope folks understand and can agree to talk to those elements of crafting I define.

Crafting is Blacksmithing, Clothing, Woodworking, Provisioning, Enchanting, and becoming an alchemist. The following are the activities that are seen as part of the crafting experience:

Creating items
Deconstructing items
Researching items
Upgrading items
Creating armor for yourself
Selling items you have created to others
Gathering resources/items/motifs

So with that said here are some of my thoughts and please bare in mind that my experience is focused on provisioning, clothing and woodworking. I have not tried the other profession in any real detail and I would love to get other thoughts as well.

As I went into this game, I was really excited about a crafting system that appeared to provide real value to the game, it felt different, useful and initially to me interesting. That feeling remained the same for the first month or so for me but as i started to level in the game I did start to find the experience to be a bit to simplistic in nature (lots of time syncs such as researching) and really lacked the depth that I crave in a crafting system (I like the idea of resources/items/ingredients etc having a quality aspect that impacts the quality of the item created as an example).

That aside I can get over that if I feel like there are ways to effectively engage in the economy and create items that people actually want. However as rimw went on I would create items, offer them up in chat, post them on trade guild stores I'm part of but kept finding little demand for items lower than blue level trait sets. The issue is that making full set of armor is not a low time/cost effort for the most part when you think about the amount of upgrade items, where you need to travel and the resources you need. If you simply look at the cost of acquiring the green/blue upgrade mats and the resources. A set can cost in excess of 7000g (Hennings 14*50 = 700g Embro = 21*300g = 6,300 resources= 800g) So I have to sell each piece at 1000g to make a profit. Yes i can get some of these myself form deconstructing for free but the reality is that it takes alot of time to a mass the above and the point is the reward is very small.

OK So what your point Rammi? Well I never sold that trait armor and the many others i have created and they are still sitting in the bank or got deconstructed. I'm simply not seeing any demand for crafted items I'm creating unless i give it away at prices that people will pay to deconstruct it for the RNG chance of getting a an upgrade mat.

What I actually see happen is players who are crafting, primarily craft for themselves. Others who do not care for crafting are finding gear that meets their needs through drops and may use someone for upgrading there items.

So I'm left with a system that feels rather simple to do, appears to not feel very needed and really only adds value for players by offering upgrade services or by crafters creating gear as for themselves.

Am i well off here? what do others thing? and is the above a bad thing?

I personally was hoping for more but perhaps my expectations were to high!

Mansome · June 2014

Everything is good except enchanting. That one is broken as hell. Leveling it is just way too slow even with swapping glyphs. They just need to fix it. I have just given up trying to keep it at the same level as my main character. Its just not possible. I won't be buying glyphs from other players because I need all the cash I can get for inventory space. I am so tired of playing inventory tetris every 1 hour so. This crap is getting old.

So TLDR version. I think crafting is awesome except enchanting. Inventory management sucks ass in this game.

Mansome · June 2014

Improvements to the system would be make it so the crafting level of the crafter has to match the item level of what your upgrading. Then it makes it worth leveling the craft. The next thing is they could sell inventory space for real $$$. I would pay for it definitely.

Lastly I would make it so there is at least a small chance for the item to proc on creation to at least green and on upgrade have a small chance to proc to the next level. For instance you make a white item it has a chance to proc green on creation. You could then take that green item and try to upgrade it to blue but instead of blue you proc it purple. In the same way you take the white item that didn't proc green but when you try to upgrade to green it prods to blue. You take the blue and try to go for purple but it procs to gold. That would be awesome.

Enchantments should have a chance to proc to the next level of aspect. So you use a TA and it goes to the green one. Or if you use the Green it procs to the blue one.

Moonchilde · June 2014

I think the only big MMO that did not ruin crafting or make it utterly useless as a profession within the first year was Lineage2. They restricted the key skills of the crafting profession to the Dwarf race, meaning that if you wanted to craft, you had to roll a Dwarf. But as a Dwarf, you had a valuable role others could not duplicate unless they ran a separate character just for that purpose.

Crafters are a type of player, just like PvPer or RPer. That means, they are part of a your market - that means your income. (looking at you, Zenimax).

The writing has been on the wally for years - when you alienate a big portion of your player base, not only do you lose money, you also start a domino effect.
1. Making a crafting player/character useless will cause the economy to eventually die.
2. This affects everyone, because then they have to farm harder and longer for mats or drops.
3. The game becomes a drag for casual players or RPers, and too much wasted time for PvPers.

So now you lose more and more of all your demographics, just by making one of them useless. Seriously, if you think the percentage of players who like to craft is low, check out Minecraft's success.

To address the OP:
Yes, I think they have marginalized crafting as a unique skill by catering to everyone's whining that stuff is too hard to find, or skills too hard to raise. But they delivered the lethal injection when they multiplied the drop rate for rares by 1000.

Now there is even less reason for anyone to craft anything, because unique is the new average.

killedbyping · June 2014

I think that crafting did become better. Fix for craft sets made them more valuable. I didnt saw any guild mate with out atleast 1 craft set.

However, they are still inferior to the droped sets and are focused on Spellcasters like everything in this game (there are indeed some good tanking sets, but they all require 8 traits so probably nobody can have it yet).

I mean honestly, there is only 2 viable sets for weapon users and they both require 5 set pieces beacuse first (3 item) bonus is a joke.
This not just put you into disadvantage when making choise beacuse you dont have any, but also put you into gear disadvantage because spellcasters may use 3x3 or even 4x3 (if they chose to go DW) sets while you only able to have 2.
Yes, i say 2 ! Because the dropped jewelry sets for weapon users do not have Neclase... They only have rings paired with weapon. This means you either cant use it, becase good sets require 2h weapon and this slot is alrdy taken by crafted weapon for crafted set or you use lousy 8 weapon damage set and have to stick with DW.

Look at the 8 traits sets. There is literaly not a single viable set for weapon users among them. I dont even know why do i keep researching above 6 traits -.-

So the short resume is: i do think that crafting become better, but it having same issue like everything in this game, only spellcasters gain most advantage from crafting.

Iluvrien · June 2014

I will say at the outset that I have very few problems with crafting.

I am a Crafter and RPer. I specialise in Enchanting, but I am also levelling Clothing and Woodworking on my main and Blacksmithing, Alchemy and Provisioning on my only playing alt.

I will say that my Main is a Sorceror and is part of a Guild named the Arcane Order that focuses, and has always focussed, on being a fellowship for magicka users such as Templars and Sorcerors.

Now, about the crafting...

Enchanting is tough, but is definitely useful. I get more requests and commissions through my Guild for glyphs or enchanted items than for any other craft. Or possibly all of the other crafts put together. My main character is level 40, yet I can craft glyphs up to VR3. As will be noticed by my character level I am in no hurry. I spend a great deal more time exploring the world than questing in it, although I enjoy the questing. As a result I am not short of crafting materials for any of my crafts and have no problems responding to commissions that come through guild chat or zone. The pressure on my inventory is present but it doesn't present a problem. If you are patient, and thoughtful about how you manage it then Enchanting works just fine.

The other crafts are easy by comparison. By exploring the edges of the map I find materials nodes that most people don't seem to bother with. I have stacks of on-level materials for Clothing, Woodworking, Blacksmithing and so on. However, as these crafts are so easy to gain materials for I find that the only place where the crafter stands out is in the production of traited sets.

Since I also craft an entirely new set of armour and weapons for myself every two levels I have had a chance to personally test how different set bonuses operate for characters like mine. So I can often offer my own insight to potential customers. It has also helped me level these crafts. Do I primarily craft for my own satisfaction? Yep. I see every commission or sale as a bonus, not as something that I either expect or feel entitled to.

There is a significant proviso on that though. Since I respond to direct queries or chat announcements I make very little use of the Guild Store (lack of) functionality. That aspect, I think, could do with being subject to significant amounts of additional work (searching, filters etc). If that happened I might be tempted to use it. As things are I am happy enough with the direct contact methods and tend not to think about it too much.

As such I am, generally, very happy with the way the game is going for me, especially with regards to crafts, and think that it is only likely to get stronger over time.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

Rammi wrote: »

Three months since launch

Actually, it's only two.

I don't play MMOs to sit and craft all day to make millions on the AH, I craft to be self-sufficient in terms of gear I need to level, not as a means of making cash, in that respect it's fine.

siuolly · June 2014

Enchanting is broken. Took too long. I am V2 but enchanting level 25. I have two person collect glyphs for me to DE as well giving me the mats when they pick up during questing... still, only level 25.. that's sad.

reggielee · June 2014

I've been working my crafting skills in hope that I would be using them one day. Haven't yet, almost to 50. (except for provisioning and alchemy) I have high hopes that all that work will come into play at vr levels. Till then, its been just a side game in eso. drops more than work for me, and also high repair bills make making your own sets not worth it as you just change out your gear too soon.

I am open to buying sets off crafters for those sets that I do not have all the traits for, but I never see them on guild store or people advertising for them. Perhaps Im in the wrong stores. I would think crafters would be able to sell those high lvl sets easily but would have to spam chat for long periods of time to do it. I do believe all the exploiters have ruined for a time crafting sales, as they all have enough upgrade materials to make their own or for their friends or pvp guilds. till that glut is addressed then sales will be suppressed

My biggest complaint with crafting is that its *** you make more exp from deconstructing others stuff... especially in enchanting. I have a closet alt that has almost the same level of enchant as my main, even tho she hasnt gathered, crafted or even left the starter zone, due to me shuffling glyphs to her from my main, who has worked the craft religiously. If I had bothered and got a vet to farm me glyphs I would have had my main fully leveled a month ago, instead of being at 20 now. there is something wrong with that. same with clothing,blacksm, and woodworking.

other than that, I like the animations, especially enchant, I like the teirs, I like the researching, they are working on the cosmetic appeal, provisioning is really useful, im waiting for alchemy to be useful as dropped potions seem to be enough pre vet

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Its cool that they added 3 and 5 set bonuses to pre 1.1.2 crafting sets that didnt have them, but they seem kinda meh and thrown in there. They still feel like filler items until you get dropped sets even tho it was advertized that crafters will "create" the best items. Upgrading is not creating.

Like, some of them got a 5 set for 5% spell critical, while other sets already had a 3 set for 5% spell critical. Its kind of a weak effect if you can get it as a 3 set.

I think 5 and 6 trait sets should have 4 set bonuses as well, while 8 trait sets, for as long as it takes to even craft a single 8 trait item, should have 3, 4, 5, and 7 set bonuses that aren't just thrown in there. Those one should be truly unique and obviously better than 6 set and below, and dropped.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · June 2014

What do I think of it? Seems to be a lot of clothiers and woodworkers around.......

HeroOfEvbof · June 2014

From the outset, Zenimax and Bethesda specified that they wanted guilds and groups. And in this respect, the crafting system has been a boon. I'm in a group of four friends that have been playing f2f and online together since the 80's. One of us is the clothier, another is the blacksmith and a third is the woodworker. The blacksmith doubles as the chef/alchemist and the woodworker is the enchanter. We loot everything and every useful thing get mailed to the appropriate crafter. Almost all of our gear from lvl 15 to vet1 has been crafted by our own group, on mains and on alts.
We are also part of a PvX guild and do significant amount of crafting for guildies. We once made a legendary fire resist ring on a lvl 10 ring someone picked up. 300 fire resist for a lvl 10 player. It was our solution to cheesemonger hollow for melee builds.
Our guild has many vets and our guild blacksmiths are still working towards all eight traits on every heavy armor piece (exploration is quite elusive). Unlocking those coldharbor craft sites is something to look forward to.
In light of this group dynamic, I have found crafting to be totally awesome. I dont "make" money but I save a ton. I dont have to hunt stores for set bonuses.
I do make money on provisioning. There are people in zone chat who are on their own and need lvl 40, lvl 45 and vr1 food. With 3/3 chef, i can turn 5 mudcrab into 1000g. Even beef can be profitable.

BirdUp · June 2014

Mansome wrote: »

Everything is good except enchanting. That one is broken as hell.

IKR. I saw one poor enchanter listing his top tier (vet 9 to 14) enchants. They were all yellow. And one was +stamina. I remember it was something like +95 stamina. Well that's pretty good, but considering that I can walk up to ye olde enchanting vendor and buy a Greater Glyph of Stamina (VR 3-5), +70 stamina, for mere pocket change, 232g... I would expect the top tier legendary to blow this one away. But no, not so much.

Seriously? A legendary glyph (legendary, bard's sing songs about the awesomeness of these things for generations to come) that is a full 6 or 7 vet ranks higher (a mighty tall climb for me at least) is only 25 more stamina?

wth?

Edit to say: I felt like saying something along those lines to him in guild chat... thought better of it, maybe I could whisper him... and say what to him? All I can say is "wth?"

Edit again to say: same guy just spammed guild again (after a length wait which I appreciate). It's actually +89 stamina. It's even worse than I thought.

Sasky · June 2014

Enchanting - pain to level, not much gain for most types of enchants. The difference between white and gold is negligible for most types. To further add insult, on dropped gear, the enchant magnitude goes up if you improve the item. For crafted enchats, it doesn't.

Need to have at least green enchants drop in world -- this would greatly speed up leveling of enchanting. As well, make custom enchants have more of a difference -- possibly even some sort of synergy bonus. You get variety over default vendors, but there's little to no reason to make armor enchants since you can get within a few points buying the plain old white from NPC vendors.

Clothing, Woodwork, Blacksmithing - easy enough to level just by deconstructing. Gold improvements are rare from combination of 1) No gold items to deconstruct, so no reliable way to obtain and 2) A full 8 golds needed to improve, even with maxed passives. Improvement is low on most, except for trait bonus you get.

The annoying part here is that most of the better sets are world drop, with no way to craft. Allow deconstruct these with a chance to get a set token to still make crafting relevant no matter what the world drops are.

Alchemy - fast to level, good boosts. Will only get better once poisons come into play. Only craft without a hireling perk, which is disappointing, but since mats are not level-specific, not that big of a deal.

Provisioning - Levels way too fast. They could cut leveling down to 10% of current rate and still have it easier to level than enchanting. I maxed this out with lv3 recipies very early on.

Utility is good, but would be nice if could have 1 food, 1 drink active. All the passives for craft are separated, why not the usage?

I haven't done much for selling, but mostly craft for personal use. As such, I've been easily ahead of curve for mats in that sense, except for hide scraps at times. From what I've seen, provisioning, alchemy, and enchanting seem to have good profits.

Gear crafting for profit seems a bit of a mixed bag. With the abundance of purple weapon drops and blue gear drops, it's not profitable to sell improved crafted items. Set bonus items are where the real value of crafting is, but it's an involved process. All the customization is nice, but it also means you can't just drop it in a guild store.

Digiman · June 2014

Mansome wrote: »

Everything is good except enchanting. That one is broken as hell. Leveling it is just way too slow even with swapping glyphs. They just need to fix it. I have just given up trying to keep it at the same level as my main character. Its just not possible. I won't be buying glyphs from other players because I need all the cash I can get for inventory space. I am so tired of playing inventory tetris every 1 hour so. This crap is getting old.

So TLDR version. I think crafting is awesome except enchanting. Inventory management sucks ass in this game.

Same, its really ridiculous to level especially considering how hard you have to search for materials out in the world to boot. I can spend a few minutes gathering materials for provisioning, blacksmithing, clothing even alchemy and right of the bat start making my armor, potions, weapons and food in a matter of minutes.

But with enchanting I have to go around the zone and look for three different types of runes and pray to god they are the ones I want to make an enchant I desire, then when I make that glyph my bar moves a tiny nanometer. How fair and balanced is that?

I honestly think they should fix this, the sad thing is it isn't difficult just a huge waste of time and materials, at least with clothing and blacksmiting I can deconstruction the quest rewards and loot to raise them, with this I am lucky to find glyphs to deconstruction.

Don't get me started on finding a deconstruction buddy for exchanging glyphs, if there is no point in doing it for blacksmithing, alchemy and clothing then it shouldn't be a god damn requirement for enchanting.

Get you damn act together Zenimax.

Curragraigue · June 2014

I have given them all ago. I enjoy blacksmithing, clothier and woodwork. They are all very similar so once you get used to the system of materials, crafting, deconstructing and researching they make a lot of sense and you get tangible benefits for your effort.

The enchanting craft is certainly the hardest to level and there seems to be only minor differences in the benefit of using the green, blue and gold which is disappointing.

Alchemy is a useful craft that levels appropriately and requires a bit of inventory space but not as much as provisioning.

Have only really just started using the provisioning skill but from what I have seen you seem to level very quickly compared to the other crafting skills and it requires a lot of inventory management to make sure you have the ingredients for not only the recipes you have but the recipes you may get in the future.