Thinking outside the (class) box...

lecarcajou_ESO · June 2014

I must admit I have difficulties with this. Aside from a fairly successful dual-wielding DK in medium armor, I just can't seem to push myself to do something really unconventional, like, say, a sorcerer in heavy armor—especially as a Breton, the light armor proficiency bonuses are just too seductive.

My question is, am I just too used to doing things they way they're usually done in this genre—or does "playing as we want" lead to novel but underpowered builds?

As you can probably guess from the above, it's especially the idea of a heavy armor magic user that intrigues me. But is it worth the experiment—and the skill points?

Thanks for any insightful comments!

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO · June 2014

I also started a very conventional 1h and shield DK, then switched to 2-h build, then got bored with that and went to DW, after that I went to first run around mainly with resto staff and finally into the current resto/destro combo. I think it's very worth experimenting with, I really did have a lot of fun with all these builds and most of them were pretty good at what I used them for.

And as with skill points I've done a first respec at level 42, after I've already had experimented with 1h/shield, 2h, DW and resto staff. And yet I had enough points for all class skills, some weapon skills, most passives and two crafting professions. It did require couple trips to Cyrodiil for shards though

I've done heavy armor resto staff build with my DK and it's extremely viable in PvE. Most damage would still come from your magicka based class skills, you don't need to waste a skill slot on spiked armor as you'll normally be at armor cap and you can restore both magicka (with heavy staff attacks) and health (with heavy armor passives) at a great rate. I like this build, it was a lot of fun.

Soloeus · June 2014

Just min/max and look for synergies. Get some Armor Sets from loot, guild stores or crafting that give bonuses with good traits for your build. Don't take entire skill lines, take only the 1-2 actives you might need and the passives which support it.

You actually have a lot of freedom because of the different ways armor sets can factor in. 3-3-5 is one type of Armor Sets combination. 2 sets for the +3 Pieces bonus and one set with all 5. The bonuses on some of these sets can really change the game for you. Enchant them.

Put all your attribute points into Hit Points. Or do a 40hp-9mana split. Put Crushing Glyphs on your weapon. If you Dual Wield or One Hand/Shield, you can overcome all of someones armor or almost all of it.

You have a lot more freedom you want, but you need items that support what you are doing. Get the right blue food/drink you need. Get the right potions. Everything has to work together.

GrimlockSaves · June 2014

In PvE, I think you can do any content with a creative build that is your own. With that being said, I don't think you can do it FAST.

For example, in the case of AA, top guilds compete to do it FAST, which requires builds that will deliver. That all seems to trickle down, because even if you are not on a speed run, you'll have someone telling the DKs they should be destro/resto, and preach the only "viable" builds for speed.

That's just my two cents... Making things a race reduces diversity.

lecarcajou_ESO · June 2014

Thanks guys! Let the good times—and toons—be rolled!

Soloeus · June 2014

Vet Content is a little different because of the power gap between your ability caps and rising difficulty of even average mobs. So you summon Twilight and Clannefar. Put ward on them. The ward will be broken in 2 light or 1 heavy attack, each summon will live about 3 hits and the Twilight will always get sacked by the AI.

Of course, you can get a Resto Staff and use Mutagen to keep them alive. You probably never had to worry about that in pre-vet levels. Same with some of your spells. You probably got some fun use out of Fire Clench Golfing your enemies in Pre-Vet. In the veteran zones, almost every enemy mob is 3+ and grouped in kiting distance of other mobs of 3.

PVP is of course a whole different ball park because if you take every element of your character and have: one good opener, 1-2 heavy hitters, one finisher, and one decent heal, you can usually win a 1v1. In groups, this is really all you need too. You do have to think about being Single Target vs AOE damage and what you are doing on your second bar.

Dagoth_Rac · June 2014

I think being a heavy armor magic user will be tough. The spell cost reduction from Light Armor is very important if you don't want to run out of magicka too quickly. While spell cost reduction is the most important, all the Light Armor passives are great for magicka focused characters.

I would seriously consider Heavy Cuirass and Heavy Greaves with the rest being Light Armor. Cuirass and Greaves give the best armor improvement among the seven pieces, while also making you "look" like a good old-fashioned knight in shining armor. But having those 5 pieces of Light Armor will be really, really helpful for a spell casting player. You can still get 6% armor bonus from the two pieces of heavy armor. Add in a Mundus stone and some armor jewelry and you should be able to come close to the armor soft cap even with the 5 pieces of light armor.

But it is really a personal choice. You should be able to get by with a heavy armor mage, but it'll be harder than a light armor mage. At the least, start with a mixture of Light Armor and Heavy Armor, just to level up both. You can decide later which way to go and won't have to start from scratch leveling up a new skill line if your initial choice is causing problems.

lecarcajou_ESO · June 2014

Great suggestion, Dagoth, thanks!

Singular · June 2014

You could go light armor and use the bound armor spell. That immediately tosses your armor into the soft cap.

I did it for a bit, it was good.

Spiritreaver_ESO · June 2014

lecarcajou_ESO wrote: »

I must admit I have difficulties with this. Aside from a fairly successful dual-wielding DK in medium armor, I just can't seem to push myself to do something really unconventional, like, say, a sorcerer in heavy armor—especially as a Breton, the light armor proficiency bonuses are just too seductive.

My question is, am I just too used to doing things they way they're usually done in this genre—or does "playing as we want" lead to novel but underpowered builds?

As you can probably guess from the above, it's especially the idea of a heavy armor magic user that intrigues me. But is it worth the experiment—and the skill points?

Thanks for any insightful comments!

Good for you. Questioning one's motivations is always a good thing imo.

Efficiency is always an issue in an MMO. But there can come a point when you have to decide if you want to focus on being efficient even if it means playing in a way you don't really want to.

When i was younger, i pretty much always went the most efficient route. As i've gotten older, i realize i personally don't give much of a damn about being super efficient anymore. Especially if being in that mindset compromises my enjoyment of a game.

My ultimate advice: Find a balance between efficiency and fun. And for TESO in particular, just try something if you want to see how it will go, there are TONS of skill points available.

Heishi · June 2014

I currently have two test builds I'm leveling. They're actually polar opposites. One is a stam build sorc. He's a ranger type with the pet, or that was the initial idea. I have already expanded it a bit. First he launches a volley of fire arrows. while those are working on coming down he immobilizes them with the 15x3 square AoE. While that's nice and set he throws on the curse that explodes after 3 sec for more AoE. He always has out the Clanifear which does AoE/minor tank. Finally I keep the interrupting venom arrow on. Even though all his attributes go into stam, he has rings for mag regen. High mag wouldn't benefit greatly anyway because the clan eats 10% anyways.

The other build, I had read somewhere that increasing magicka slightly increases damage from skills that to magic damage. To test this I decided to make a NB using assassination and shadow (both have tooltips that state they do magic damage and cost magic to use). I have him in light armor with dual wield for laughs. The plan/hopes is to be able to spam the class skills due to high amount of magicka to increase damage. The dw is mostly decoration.

Neither is very high lv, but so far both have faired pretty well, better than I expected anyways.

I like playing with weird builds. Very early on I had ran a NB healer. I have a dark elf DK using flame with a bow. I've tested a unarmed "monk" build using some templar stuff. I run with my crafter sometimes who only has basic attack and the starter soul trap. I don't usually take my tests to far, only around lv20. but it's enough to get a feel for it anyway (I don't really bother to test any pvp viability because I don't do pvp much).

Sleepydan · June 2014

I enjoy a 2h sorcerer with the main abilities being critical surge, critical charge, bound armor. Also 7/7 medium for that tasty melee ciry chance.

Nightblade caster band dk caster are also widely known builds.

I'm quite fond of the "rogue" dk build, bow + dual wield for pvp

Bow settup has specifically reflective scale to force them to come into range to fight you, while dual wield has sparks to make them fight you at range. Oh and green dragon blood all around.

Don't look at classes as a role, just look at them as theming and view their kits as what they are. Supplement with the other skill lines and you really can make just about anything work if your so inclined.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

Well the only two skill lines I know of that aren't worth the skill points are Medium Armour and Two-Handed. Everything else seems to work if you learn how to play it. Admittedly Staffs seems to be stronger than Bows, but bows still work.

Enkil · June 2014

This game is dumbed downed with the skill caps so much so that balance is impossible..

It's extremely odd because most Elder Scrolls games up until Skyrim got this right...

InESO:
Magicka cap not only determines your resources but also your max damage??!?!?!?!??!?!

This is counter-intuitive as in other games you might max a stat like Spirit/Wisdom that gives a lot of magicka (mana) but you would know that you'd be sacrificing maxing the damage stat (Intelligence)...

This is common sense.. a sprinter is great at short distances.. but sucks at a mile or a marathon.. apparently these dev's cannot grasp these Game Development 101 concepts.. its unfortunate that they have been given the reins over such a beloved franchise as Elder Scrolls...

/disappointed

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2014

If you want to play as a mage, you can do well in any class.

beyond that your screwed =P

lecarcajou_ESO · June 2014

Thanks once again for taking the time and sharing your perspectives. I think I really need to get a little more adventurous with my builds...