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Why are people using cloth+destro staff DK?

  • ozgod22_eso
    ozgod22_eso
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    Most of these are end game builds to squeeze out as much dps as you can while taking advantage of light armor passives (magicka regen, spell resist) and other armor benefits from class skills, presumably while not being hit by melee attacks. I guess you could look at it as a "fire mage" type build where using an inferno staff synergises with the passives from the DK flame tree.

    The reason most are moving to light is because with certain skills (Boundless Storm sorc, Razor Armor DK, etc) you can get softcapped on armor as soon as you use those skills, making wearing heavy armor redundant. Test this by wearing heavy armor, checking your armor rating with and without Razor/Spiked Armor, then switch out to light armor and do the same and see if you get softcapped.

    For people still levelling or solo playing however, who are a) getting hit by mobs and b) don't have or aren't using those defensive class skills yet and c) don't have a dedicated healer, your survivability might be better by using heavy armor and switching out to light once you figure out the playstyle better.

    Final comment - we do play this game to have fun. Min maxers, hardcore raiders (of which I was one in WoW) will do extensive theorycrafting to figure out the build that delivers the most DPS for end game. The reason they do that is because you need everything you can get when facing progression bosses. It's harder than it should be to figure that out right now since there is no combat log to run simulations on, so a lot of these are done largely via logic or manually looking at rudimentary dps snapshots via FTC or the like (basically just individual fight parses since no data can be stored and no simulations with 100k iterations can be run).

    So everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. While levelling play what is fun for you, but don't close your eyes to experimenting* with other builds so you have a range of playstyles come end game.

    * as long as you have the gold for constant respecs lol
    Edited by ozgod22_eso on June 9, 2014 10:36AM
  • Hilgara
    Hilgara
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    Light armour and staffs wins for any class in this game
  • Alazarz
    Alazarz
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    Damage.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    I get the feeling the OP is either ignorant or a troll
    EU | PC | AD
  • fixate
    fixate
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    dcincali wrote: »
    I lol'd so hard at this one... The only reason Fix was good in pvp was the vampire bugs, once those were gone, hes pewp now.

    I was never, nor will I ever be a vampire. Keep spewing garbage and you'll always be in the dump.

    Onto the subject, DK synergizes very well with fire in general and adding the light armor compounds that fact into outter space.
    Edited by fixate on June 12, 2014 6:30AM
    fixate
    VR12 Dragonknight
    Ebonheart Pact, Wabbajack
    www.areyoucondemned.net
  • Baphomet
    Baphomet
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    I think a lot of you guys need to spend some more time in PvP land before you get too opinionated about what is working and what is not.
    - The Psijic Order
    - TKO
    - Dominant Dominion
    - The Noore
  • Vagios_13
    Vagios_13
    Soul Shriven
    flintstone wrote: »
    I'll try the light build stuff down the road (I'm VR2 at the moment).....5 hev/2 lite. I'm using VR1 Warlock hat/pendent/ring and can solo just about anything except the really hard group stuff.

    I have a VR8 Sorcerer also, but I like the Dragonknight better......a lot less sneaking around to get the kill.

    @flintstone send me a PM and I will share my DK build with you. My health rarely falls below 80% and my mana never goes below 50% even in long battles AND I have more AR then full heavy wearing DK's, while I am in cloth.

    IF possible i would like a link to the build. I tried to send you a message but it says i do not have permission

  • Head.hunter
    Head.hunter
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    Just high damage, from what I've seen. Some fire staff users are at the same level as others in group dps and others probably find ways to combine their skills so they can melt mobs and use heals/syphoning abilities to stay alive. You see it used in pvp sometimes but I'm not sure if it translates the same.
    Edited by Head.hunter on June 13, 2014 12:26AM
    I'm just a banana from another dimension.
  • pecheckler
    pecheckler
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    Allowing any damage meters in the add-on API was a fatal flaw. Regardless of whether you can see allied player damage numbers it has had the same negative result.
    End the tedious inventory management game.
  • Jimm_ay
    Jimm_ay
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    Heck I play a templar and destro / reso is my bread and butter...(dark efl so fire GOOD) - the attacks marry well with the fire class skills I imagine ever better with a DK.
  • Lyall84
    Lyall84
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    Qumulous wrote: »
    My DK i have tried both destructive staff and duel wield.

    Duel weild 7/7 pcs of med armor with my crit at 32% with my weapon damage at 202. With Hunding's Rage set bonus 5/5 with 3 set bonus Twilight's Embrace. With legendary weapons.

    Destructive staff 7/7 pcs of light armor with my crit at 52% with my damage at 132. 5 set of Twilight's Embrace and a 3 set of Willow's Path. Legendary inferno staff.
    Duel weild has more single target dps but the destructive staff is 3-4 times the ae damage. In craglorn i die very often using a duel weild spec vs a robe and staff.

    I think people will play where they find survivability. I think stamina abilities are useless at this point, even a bow doesn't compare to dps staff.

    Hunding's Rage does not buff any weapon abilities. It should, it even says it does, but it does not. The 5 set is currently broken at the moment.

    I would hope ZOS is aware of the issue already but if not, here is an explanation. I crafted new sets to make sure my numbers are exact and the controls are not messed with.

    Bottom line: the 5 set reads (at VR 9 white quality) "Increases weapon damage by 18% when using weapon abilities". This reads to me that it increases the weapon abilities damage by 18% of the weapon's portion of the damage.

    Base Damage:

    Completely ungeared (ie naked) my Executioner IV (two handed morph) deals 81 damage.

    Gear: All gear listed is white, with no enchantments or traits, unless otherwise listed.

    Level 13 vendor bought great sword (Green) = 40 damage.

    VR9 crafted great sword = 134 damage.

    VR9 crafted medium hunding's rage set (5 pieces) = 18% increase.

    Test:
    Naked with green level 13 sword, Executioner does 106 damage. So far it can be noted that a about 62% of the weapon's damage is added to the skill's damage.

    Naked with white VR9 sword, Executioner does 166 damage. It appears that this weapon added about 63% of the weapon's damage to the skill's damage. Pretty consistent.

    5 Piece Hunding's Rage set equipped with green level 13 sword. Executioner tool tip still displays 106 damage. It appears that the set has 0 effect. Set is broken and useless. Should be around 110 damage if you count the set as only increasing the weapons portion of the effect. Would be around 125 if the set counted to the ability as a whole.

    5 Piece Hunding's Rage set equipped with white VR9 sword. Executioner tool tip still displays 166 damage. It appears that the set has 0 effect. Set is broken and useless. Should be around 180 damage if you count the set as only increasing the weapons portion of the effect. Would be around 195 if the set counted to the ability as a whole.

    Conclusion: a crafted 6 trait requirement, 5 set bonus, that can do nothing but help any type of weapon skill or stamina build, is 100% useless.
  • Catches_the_Sun
    Catches_the_Sun
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    Lyall84 wrote: »
    5 Piece Hunding's Rage set equipped with green level 13 sword. Executioner tool tip still displays 106 damage. It appears that the set has 0 effect. Set is broken and useless. Should be around 110 damage if you count the set as only increasing the weapons portion of the effect. Would be around 125 if the set counted to the ability as a whole.

    5 Piece Hunding's Rage set equipped with white VR9 sword. Executioner tool tip still displays 166 damage. It appears that the set has 0 effect. Set is broken and useless. Should be around 180 damage if you count the set as only increasing the weapons portion of the effect. Would be around 195 if the set counted to the ability as a whole.

    Conclusion: a crafted 6 trait requirement, 5 set bonus, that can do nothing but help any type of weapon skill or stamina build, is 100% useless.

    Did you actually test these or just read the tooltips?

    Catches-the-Sun - Argonian Templar - Master Smith, Provisioner, Chemist & Tailor
    Valaren Arobone - Dunmer Flamewalker - Master Woodworker, Provisioner, Assassin
    Kazahad - Khajiiti Arcane Archer - Master Thief
    V'orkten - Redguard Swordmaster
    Finnvardr the Frenzied - Werewolf Berzerker
  • infraction2008b16_ESO
    infraction2008b16_ESO
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    I unlocked impulse on my mains destro (the spec I usually play is heavy+2H), first 3 pack I done fire rune, wall of elements then held block while spamming impulse I had 1400 dps without an ultimate in VR10-11 purples. A mob pack I done later with the standard of might was in excess of 2K.

    Keep in mind that was still in heavy armor as well, that's AoE damage and not single target but considering the best I've done on a mammoth with 2H was around 800 you can see there's little appeal for anything other than the destro staff,

  • ozgod22_eso
    ozgod22_eso
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    pecheckler wrote: »
    Allowing any damage meters in the add-on API was a fatal flaw. Regardless of whether you can see allied player damage numbers it has had the same negative result.

    I think that for competitive end-game damage meters is a must. It's all fine now when you can faceroll your way through Trials in any spec, but once they bring out harder and harder bosses with dps checks and hard enrages you will need to know how much dps your team is delivering. You need metrics, particularly if you want to know who is holding you back. Metrics also help developers in rebalancing specs that are underpowered.
  • sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO
    I do not know how it goes on vet12, but me as vet2 I see talons as OP as hell. Last time I got killed by stun + talons, I was dead in 2 seconds. All I had time to do was breaking the stun.

    I really hope it is not that powerfull when both fighters are equal. It was insane faceroll. Clicking 2 buttons to kill a player...
  • Arundo
    Arundo
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    I'm currently leveling destro staff and cloth as I previously was only using Heavy Armor with dual wield and bow. But I died too much to my liking so I changed to destro staff.

    First I didnt see any difference in the amount of deads but now that I get the hang of it and unlock more skills I can solo packs of two and sometimes three. I hope when I unlock Impulse I can kill packs of three.

    So I do understand why people switch, its doing much more DMG which causes less deads as mobs die faster.
  • Muxje
    Muxje
    Soul Shriven
    @Arundo, what level are you? Below VR3 I had no problem taking on packs of 2 with a bow + medium, and in most cases packs of 3 were hard but doable as well. Bosses with 1 or 2 adds were harder, success here depended a lot on the nature of the mobs. Anything over 3 mobs usually meant death or retreat. At VR3, I did hit a brick wall, and I keep dying. Maybe I'll give light + destro a go as well.

    A shame, since I do like the bow as a weapon. The weakness of bow wielders is crowds, and they have very little to make up for it.
  • Quaesivi
    Quaesivi
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    I have not, nor ever played a Mage in any MMO, or any TES games, and I will definitely not start now, which is probably the only reason my DK sits in his Heavy Armor, under the heat, playing with his 3 Swords, Shield and his little Bow... Just fishing really.
    Seriously, try it, fishing is actually far more fun than trying to fight in a Heavy Armor, waving a Sword or flinging arrows with your Bow. No worries about stupid nerfs or getting killed.
  • Anlaemar
    Anlaemar
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    Encounter Progression:
    Mark the biggest, baddest mob with Siphon Spirit (and Elemental Drain if you feel the need) Run in while hitting Flames of Oblivion/Volatile Armor...on approach hold block... hit burning talons and spam Impulse(or morphs).


    Because it is sooo rewarding chewing down mobs by spamming a single ability. That takes zero skill.
    Edited by Anlaemar on June 13, 2014 11:24AM
    (NA) Anlaemar with 750+ Champion Points
    Member Since April 15, 2014
    (EP)Alrik Vadason - Nord Dragonknight
    Tank
    (EP)Matdasi Hlarrobar - Breton Mageblade
    Formerly known as Ra'dar Ahdhari - Main DPS 40k Self Buffed
    (EP)Marrec Vadason - Breton Templar Healer
    (EP)Nameless - Altmer Sorcerer - Secondary DPS
    - The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason -
  • Arundo
    Arundo
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    @Muxje

    I'm VR7 at the moment. I had lots of trouble with the trash with dual wield and bow. So much I gave up on my favorite playstyle to go for destro / cloth. Still learning but I can already see the positive things from it.

    I dont like I needed to change to something which is not my playstyle but I do want to progress :smiley:

    Edited by Arundo on June 13, 2014 11:35AM
  • Falmer
    Falmer
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    Well, my DK fire mage character is the only character I have so far that can go in and solo a public dungeon like Village of the Lost in coldharbour.

    You have to work through the first dozen or so levels with very awkward skills, but once all the synergies kick in....

    Volcanic Rune, Elemental blockade, fiery breath, Talons, Impulse. Everything around me is dead before they have even returned to their feet from the Rune. Bosses take a few different tricks if they can't be CC'd.

    Definitely the most powerful character of the 8 I have created.
    Edited by Falmer on June 13, 2014 12:21PM
  • sotonin
    sotonin
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    Falmer wrote: »
    Well, my DK fire mage character is the only character I have so far that can go in and solo a public dungeon like Village of the Lost in coldharbour.

    You have to work through the first dozen or so levels with very awkward skills, but once all the synergies kick in....

    Volcanic Rune, Elemental blockade, fiery breath, Talons, Impulse. Everything around me is dead before they have even returned to their feet from the Rune. Bosses take a few different tricks if they can't be CC'd.

    Definitely the most powerful character of the 8 I have created.

    Why on earth did you make 8 characters? There's only 4 classes... just make 4 and switch them up / train different weapons
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