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The problem with taking away classes.
GrimCyclone
✭✭✭✭✭
Even though I think taking away classes is a great idea; letting us be free like the TES games let us be... The problem with this is the casuals that do not know better than to become a weak jack of many trades and a master of none nor a viable group member that hasn't any strengths in at least one area that they may even be useful to a group.
Now, that in itself isn't the problem. Because say that person never groups anyway and they just like to solo. So what right? Let them do it. In an MMO like this, it's a problem because there will be a gamut of players with weak to moderately weak builds and about as much as those who have decent builds. But the top end will always be the ones that follow others and have the great builds.
This doesn't happen with games like FFXIV because the builds are static. Having dynamic builds allows for more creativity and diversity, but for those of you that never roll fotm and don't really have insight into what you should do to become powerful, it's going to be a real struggle for you.
And let's behonest guys, look what we have now with a semi-open class system. The same thing. People are picking builds that simply do not work. And when they finally wise up and go to change it, let's say they're VR1,the respec fee along with re-training is going to take forever.
That being said, let's say they DO allow a classless structure become the model and wipe out Dragonknight, Sorceror, Nightblade, and Templar. Let's say they do. How would they have to implement the system such that all classes would be able to at least steer themselves in the right direction without making foolish builds? Or how could they bring us together regardless of build and make an effective group? Anyone have any idea? I'm sure there are ways.
Now, that in itself isn't the problem. Because say that person never groups anyway and they just like to solo. So what right? Let them do it. In an MMO like this, it's a problem because there will be a gamut of players with weak to moderately weak builds and about as much as those who have decent builds. But the top end will always be the ones that follow others and have the great builds.
This doesn't happen with games like FFXIV because the builds are static. Having dynamic builds allows for more creativity and diversity, but for those of you that never roll fotm and don't really have insight into what you should do to become powerful, it's going to be a real struggle for you.
And let's behonest guys, look what we have now with a semi-open class system. The same thing. People are picking builds that simply do not work. And when they finally wise up and go to change it, let's say they're VR1,the respec fee along with re-training is going to take forever.
That being said, let's say they DO allow a classless structure become the model and wipe out Dragonknight, Sorceror, Nightblade, and Templar. Let's say they do. How would they have to implement the system such that all classes would be able to at least steer themselves in the right direction without making foolish builds? Or how could they bring us together regardless of build and make an effective group? Anyone have any idea? I'm sure there are ways.
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NerfEverything✭✭✭✭✭This looks more like a reply to the existing thread. Why is this a new thread?2 -
GrimCyclone✭✭✭✭✭NerfEverything wrote: »This looks more like a reply to the existing thread. Why is this a new thread?
It's a tangent off the original thread that I wanted a focused answer to. The likelihood of getting an answer is much greater this way. If I would've nested this into the other thread, it would've gotten much less exposure. Many times I post in the thread and make my own topic for double exposure.0 -
Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, let's say that they do away with the forced classes, and let you choose any three skill lines.
What the Devs could do is still leave the classes, and maybe add a few more using the current skill lines and any new ones they create, and allow these to be used as templates for newer players. As such, you could have more veteran players who can choose their skill lines, and newer players who might not want that kind of freedom on their first characters could choose one of the "template" classes that we have now.
If you're worried more about people gimping themselves, the Devs could always force you to choose one damage skill line so that you don't choose three skill lines that might not allow you to solo.
But even then, there are enough damage powers in the guild skill lines, world skill lines, etc. that you should be okay.1 -
Dayv✭✭✭✭People are already making crappy builds within the existing classes, I don't think it would get any worse. As an example, if you play a melee NB focused on single target the only multiple opponent cc you get is aspect of terror which makes your opponents run off in random directions. When you've done that once or twice you'll soon realise it's as much of a hindrance as a help against ranged enemies.2 -
Bryong9ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭They are not going to take away classes. They would have to rewrite a large part of the game and it would basically be an entirely new game. Its not going to happen.2 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭/close thread.
Go here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110512/can-we-get-rid-of-classes-already#latest
or here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110414/take-away-classes#latest
or here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110307/this-is-going-to-sound-crazy-so-please-hear-me-out#latest
Read and you will find the answer to your question.3 -
WilliamTee✭✭✭hmm... Not sure how large a part of the game it is. 12 skills lines suddenly become open to all, rather than class specific. Fixed.
And as others have said, people are making just as terrible builds with 'x' number of skills lines to choose from, how much worse can they be with x+9 skill lines?2 -
david271749✭✭✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Well, let's say that they do away with the forced classes, and let you choose any three skill lines.
What the Devs could do is still leave the classes, and maybe add a few more using the current skill lines and any new ones they create, and allow these to be used as templates for newer players. As such, you could have more veteran players who can choose their skill lines, and newer players who might not want that kind of freedom on their first characters could choose one of the "template" classes that we have now.
If you're worried more about people gimping themselves, the Devs could always force you to choose one damage skill line so that you don't choose three skill lines that might not allow you to solo.
But even then, there are enough damage powers in the guild skill lines, world skill lines, etc. that you should be okay.
I have an idea similar to this.
I like the idea of, opening all skill lines to players.
Keep the class skill lines from DK, sorc, templar, and NB in their own group as primary skill lines.
Allow players to choose 3 when they create their character. You can change them with a respec.
They could still keep the original class templates for new players.
They could start adding new classes with different skill lines without pissing people off.
This alone would make the game feel more like an Elder Scrolls game. The skill lines are new and different which is not a bad thing, but having freedom of choice is something players like. There are always going to be casual players and fotm builds. It's an online game.
Edited by david271749 on June 12, 2014 11:15PM1 -
Relyk04✭✭✭Somewhat Off-topic, but I wouldn't mind if they made it to where you can create your own technique or ability with limitations obviously, but why not let me design my own moves? I'm out on a limb, but it's food for thought.1 -
ErykGrimm✭✭✭Somewhat Off-topic, but I wouldn't mind if they made it to where you can create your own technique or ability with limitations obviously, but why not let me design my own moves? I'm out on a limb, but it's food for thought.
I would think getting the devs to animate millions of player made moves is out of touch with whats possible. On topic however, switching to a classless system will not solve any current class imbalances. It would wind up being everyone specced with the OP skill lines of that patch. It would be a big step backwards in balance.1 -
david271749✭✭✭✭✭On topic however, switching to a classless system will not solve any current class imbalances. It would wind up being everyone specced with the OP skill lines of that patch. It would be a big step backwards in balance.
I don't think so. I'd rather everyone have access to op skill lines, then 25% of the player population. I think balancing would be more accurate, because you wouldn't have all these biased arguments saying, "Nerf this class. This class is ubderpowered." It would be more about which abilities are overpowered and which ones need buffed.Edited by david271749 on June 13, 2014 12:07AM1 -
People are already making crappy builds within the existing classes, I don't think it would get any worse. As an example, if you play a melee NB focused on single target the only multiple opponent cc you get is aspect of terror which makes your opponents run off in random directions. When you've done that once or twice you'll soon realise it's as much of a hindrance as a help against ranged enemies.
Lotus fan is a powerful thing.
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MrDenimChicken✭✭✭✭✭who cares if people make foolish builds. You can respec to whatever you want. It wouldn't be as unforgiving as path of exile in which there are like 2000 possible spec points to use and you can never respec.
No classes in this game would mean no one by default is gimpy by endgame and they have at least an option to roll the fotm build.
I think most people want this somewhat for balancing purposes, but more so for actual enjoyment while progressing with your character.
It is SO much funner to play a character with no pre-determined class abilities. You truly feel like you can be "unique" in your own way, and make a character that is entirely your own.
But either way, this *** will never happen. That would be like a completely different game (a much better game imo)2 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭LOL are you saying that they implemented class system to save us from foolish builds??
Tell me, how would it be foolish if I took some CC/surv from DKs skills or heals from templar's skills when I am a sorc/NB?
No, it's done only to force us to do all these quests and VR zones again and spend more time, therefore, pay more.
Because we're TES fans and love trying everything, so why not force us to pay more for that?
/spit.2 -
ErykGrimm✭✭✭david271749 wrote: »On topic however, switching to a classless system will not solve any current class imbalances. It would wind up being everyone specced with the OP skill lines of that patch. It would be a big step backwards in balance.
I don't think so. I'd rather everyone have access to op skill lines, then 25% of the player population. I think balancing would be more accurate, because you wouldn't have all these biased arguments saying, "Nerf this class. This class is ubderpowered." It would be more about which abilities are overpowered and which ones need buffed.
There is no difference in having an OP class, than having an OP hodge podge of class skills. People are going to want nerfs forever. Not enough of the playerbase understands game mechanics and how to counter. I feel every classshould be OP at its specialty. Instead of a classless system, I think the option to hybridize and get one additional skill line would be sweet. Not necessarily taking a skill line from a preexisting class but new hybrid skill lines.1 -
david271749✭✭✭✭✭Instead of a classless system, I think the option to hybridize and get one additional skill line would be sweet. Not necessarily taking a skill line from a preexisting class but new hybrid skill lines.
I'm not saying we should have a classless system, but we should be able to create our own classes.1