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O woe is me? The bug and complaint about people leaving.
Paladin_echo1
✭✭✭
I have noticed a common trend between people having issues and threatening to leave or encourage others to leave. I like this game even with all the crazy bugs and the fact that stamina builds at the moment need work, and the other stuff that goes on. For all the people who keep threatening to leave, I would be like others and tell you to go, but I say stay because things are getting better.
Many of these so called exodus people point out all sorts of holes without things to fill them with (IE: They find fault and say they are leaving the game and don't mention any other games that are better). From what I have seen lately in the threads they just find fault, destroy morale, and don't have many constructive things to say about overall improvement, but expect the developers to work magic for them. I hold these people accountable for their own actions. They find fault with the game, expecting things to be perfect, and don't want to spend enough time putting useful input and reporting the issues properly.
I enjoy a good discussion on materials without childish namecalling like I have also seen in the other threads. When reporting using the Customer Service tab, I got my issued handled with the other day with a bug I mentioned by using that F1 customer service agent thing. It was extremely useful.
Points back to that tale again:
--A traditional Dunmer tale
There was once a mudcrab who suffered much. He had a limp and a hacking cough. His shell was misshapen, causing him pain. He was weary at all times, and told everyone he was surely dying. He roamed the valley one day, complaining to any who would listen.
The shalk created a brace from part of his shell and offered it to the mudcrab. "Here, mudcrab, try bracing your leg," he advised.
"No, no, no," said the mudcrab, "I have tried that and it does not work."
"Mudcrab," said the alit, "let me bite on your shell and crack it just a bit to relieve the pressure."
The mudcrab said, "You are trying to trick me, alit! You just want an easy snack!"
Almalexia, who was roaming the land that day, heard these conversations and entered the valley, where she appeared as a humble guar.
"Mudcrab," she said, "take this draught I have made for your cough."
"Guar, you are not a healer. It is better to suffer than risk a poor remedy," replied the mudcrab.
And Almalexia revealed herself to the creatures, who gasped in surprise. "Mudcrab," she said, "all of these creatures have offered you help, but you refuse. You are in love with complaining, and you will never be healed."
And so Almalexia teaches us that you cannot aid the unwilling. --
Don't be the mudcrab. Some people here just like to hear themselves complain and I hope to get positive feedback and constructive criticism rather than crap that wastes everyone's time. What is your opinion?
Many of these so called exodus people point out all sorts of holes without things to fill them with (IE: They find fault and say they are leaving the game and don't mention any other games that are better). From what I have seen lately in the threads they just find fault, destroy morale, and don't have many constructive things to say about overall improvement, but expect the developers to work magic for them. I hold these people accountable for their own actions. They find fault with the game, expecting things to be perfect, and don't want to spend enough time putting useful input and reporting the issues properly.
I enjoy a good discussion on materials without childish namecalling like I have also seen in the other threads. When reporting using the Customer Service tab, I got my issued handled with the other day with a bug I mentioned by using that F1 customer service agent thing. It was extremely useful.
Points back to that tale again:
--A traditional Dunmer tale
There was once a mudcrab who suffered much. He had a limp and a hacking cough. His shell was misshapen, causing him pain. He was weary at all times, and told everyone he was surely dying. He roamed the valley one day, complaining to any who would listen.
The shalk created a brace from part of his shell and offered it to the mudcrab. "Here, mudcrab, try bracing your leg," he advised.
"No, no, no," said the mudcrab, "I have tried that and it does not work."
"Mudcrab," said the alit, "let me bite on your shell and crack it just a bit to relieve the pressure."
The mudcrab said, "You are trying to trick me, alit! You just want an easy snack!"
Almalexia, who was roaming the land that day, heard these conversations and entered the valley, where she appeared as a humble guar.
"Mudcrab," she said, "take this draught I have made for your cough."
"Guar, you are not a healer. It is better to suffer than risk a poor remedy," replied the mudcrab.
And Almalexia revealed herself to the creatures, who gasped in surprise. "Mudcrab," she said, "all of these creatures have offered you help, but you refuse. You are in love with complaining, and you will never be healed."
And so Almalexia teaches us that you cannot aid the unwilling. --
Don't be the mudcrab. Some people here just like to hear themselves complain and I hope to get positive feedback and constructive criticism rather than crap that wastes everyone's time. What is your opinion?
12
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Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭WHy do they have to tell Zeni how to use their heads and fix it? We pay them, not the other way around. The exodus is of their own doing.12 -
kaosodin✭✭✭✭As with anything, feedback rocks.... but it takes time to implement it. There are issues.....ohhhh definantly....some are pretty severe.
But there is plenty that is right..... I have not been majorly inconvienced yet.
I look at it like this.....as long as its getting better with time...in 60 days I will reevaluate.1 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the old saying...Lead by example. What that means, start as many positive threads as is necessary to change the mood and it wouldn't hurt the mods to start some either. Be the sane one in any discussion, let people vent but not troll. Sure there are complainers but don't respond to them.2 -
Paladin_echo1✭✭✭pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »I like the old saying...Lead by example. What that means, start as many positive threads as is necessary to change the mood and it wouldn't hurt the mods to start some either. Be the sane one in any discussion, let people vent but not troll. Sure there are complainers but don't respond to them.
This has got to be one the of the best things Ive heard on all the threads in a long time. I noticed not trolling, but just giving the information seemed to calm things down. I like information like this, and it is good to see it again every now and then. Glad to see not everyone is super extreme all the time...1 -
HandofBane✭✭✭✭As with anything, feedback rocks.... but it takes time to implement it. There are issues.....ohhhh definantly....some are pretty severe.
But there is plenty that is right..... I have not been majorly inconvienced yet.
I look at it like this.....as long as its getting better with time...in 60 days I will reevaluate.
Considering some of the issues had feedback as far back as November during the beta test weekends? The excuse of "it takes time" only goes so far... I personally see no point in paying for a game I can not play as advertised due to all the broken skills and such, especially without burning all my gold to respec/regear into one of the handful of builds that does work as a nightblade. I have no desire to run around in a dress grabbing a stick all the time.1 -
Falmer✭✭✭✭Its the same with any forum for any game. Complainers complain. Just ignore them....
It got so bad that in many forums... *Pre-order Canceled* has become sort of a running joke if some poster doesn't get his or her way.
1 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭One reason people start or comment in -snip-/leave threads is because they really liked the game, and or intended to stay a long while, but found things spiraling down the 'toobs.
One of the only ways to let the game devs know WHY you quit is by telling them, and one of the only ways to foment real action is as a group. Suffering alone and in silence leads everyone else to think they're one of the only people with a problem, which is exactly how CS and the devs want people to feel.
Ever called CS for any product with a known issue, and had CS tell you 'Oh, yeah, we get that all the time... sorrs, we screwed up.'
Nupe, they want you to feel you're the one guy with a prob among all the happy people.
You want The Devs to actually take you seriously? Show them that a large majority has issues with a few specific things. Otherwise they get help from the fanbois who say that it's only a few vocal people, and completely ignore this thing called a 'Silent Majority', who just walk out the door and never tell you why the room is empty.Edited by ZOS_JoanaL on June 10, 2014 11:02PMThe problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.6 -
Belitseri✭✭✭If no one complained, no problems would be discovered and fixed. Yes, you will get people that can never be satisfied, but without the majority of voices sounding off in protest, there would be no improvements over time. Some people tactfully suggest things, others don't. That said, a lot simply like to complain. They'll complain about any game out there and probably have. Who cares! Let them. That's part of why forums exist. If they want to toss hissy cows over stuff and threaten to leave, so be it. I'll play my way until it's no longer fun for me... no one is going to sway me from what I enjoy simply by threatening to leave. LOL3 -
Oluthon✭✭Paladin_echo1 wrote: »Many of these so called exodus people point out all sorts of holes without things to fill them with (IE: They find fault and say they are leaving the game and don't mention any other games that are better). From what I have seen lately in the threads they just find fault, destroy morale, and don't have many constructive things to say about overall improvement, but expect the developers to work magic for them. I hold these people accountable for their own actions. They find fault with the game, expecting things to be perfect, and don't want to spend enough time putting useful input and reporting the issues properly.
I am going to address each of the italicized excerpts in turn.
1. Not sure why we have to tell anyone of a game that is better. It isn't our job as players to tell you where to go after you stop playing this game. It isn't even our job to have a game to go to right after this. There is this thing called "outside", the graphics are amazing and there are 0 glitches.
2. It isn't a players job to tell the staff how to make the game or give suggestions. They get paid (or at least volunteered) for the job they do. This isn't "magic", it is programming.
3. No one cares if you "hold them accountable" for leaving a game they don't like or voicing their opinion. Not sure how you plan to hold them accountable, or why you think you have any authority to do so...
4. You assume these people do not put in tickets while they play. Since you don't *know* what everyone is doing at every moment of the day, don't assume you can say what people are(n't) doing. Assuming feedback (even negative feedback) is useless is not your job. That is the job of people hired for the position. Giving someone negative feedback by saying they need to be quiet and not give negative feedback is hypocritical.3 -
Ragekniv✭✭✭An analogy to help illuminate the rift between expectation and result...
Zenimax is the scorpion satiated with initial game unit sales and three months player subscription revenue fulfilling investor return.
It's nature is to suckle the subscription revenue teat and play the host until its dead due to attrition and failure to progress in game design or balance.
The subscription paying player base is the frog saying I'll happily to continue to carry you with my hard earned money to the other side of the mired mess you've made if you'll only fix the game!
The Scorpion stings the frog in the middle of the mire because its in its nature!
Wipe the brown moss off your nose and out of your eyes little frog!Edited by Ragekniv on June 10, 2014 8:13PM1 -
Victus✭✭✭I am going to address each of the italicized excerpts in turn.
1. Not sure why we have to tell anyone of a game that is better. It isn't our job as players to tell you where to go after you stop playing this game. It isn't even our job to have a game to go to right after this. There is this thing called "outside", the graphics are amazing and there are 0 glitches.
(snip)
Oh I disagree about outside having 0 glitches. People use vehicles, and there are frequent crashes! And a lot of times it's not even their fault!
"Doctors and lawyers are way overpaid and have better homes than the rest of us! It's nor fair!"
"Hey, we paid good money for our education to get where we are!"
"Oh, so it's Pay to win then?"
"How does that person get to go on so many dates while I can't even get a number? Nerf them!"
"Hey, learn to play! There is no need for nerfs!"
So I'm diabetic and can't get the stat bonuses for Sweetrolls. There needs to be another alternative.
PvP results are a little more permanent
Throm the First - Redguard Dragon Knight - Daggerfall Covenant
vanquishguild.com2 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO is great......there are a lot of trolls and stuck up little kids who want super cool shiny armor drops whole set per dungeon without doing work for it. The whole MMO community as a whole has become next to worthless. EVERY game has haters who talk smack and say how "the game will fail! leave now!". Some times I wonder if these people have even actually played the game lol. My opinion, if you don't have something good to say, don't say it at all. But if it's constructive criticism, then go right ahead.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!0 -
Paladin_echo1✭✭✭In reference to the "hypocritical" comment:
1. Factor still remains the players that complain don't suggest anything to replace it. It is still a blackhole of complaints rather than anything insiteful, hence many of times they key identifying feature of this is where people go into something called "name calling".
2. Is this a television show or an mmo? People are playing and giving input because they want the game to improve. If you don't want the game to improve, that is your own business.
3. Holding people accountable? I mean that as in people make their own decisions. If they want to do whatever they want to, that is their choice, however if they leave for a lot of the reasons I have seen in the thread so far due to changes they want "now", I say it is their own fault and let them miss out on a good opportunity.
4. Complaining people at times don't put in tickets, but you hear them in zone chat and throughout the threads could be an assumption. At the rate people talk about things in the thread, they don't seem very thought out at times. If it were on a ticket, much of the things would be near unrecognizable like the thread a while ago about "OMG". That's not even a ticket they could take seriously.
O and the last part, I gave praise to the other people in another thread earlier about the nice performance they were doing. Not everyone agreed, however it was very mature. If praising people for being mature is hypocritical, then you can be an expert seismologist and find fault. Not that you are, but if you want to, it is your choice.
Also in other news, I put in an email and received this
"Future alterations to the skill may depend on the feedback provided by our players. If you have tried this particular skill and found that it doesn't fit your play-style you can always visit a Rededication Shrine in the main city of your alliance."
So in other words, if the players do nothing, the skill must be balanced.Edited by Paladin_echo1 on June 10, 2014 9:53PM0 -
TicToc✭✭✭Sorry, OP, but your post is a little misguided. It doesn't matter if there is constructive ideas on how to improve things as certain people will keep jumping on those threads and say there is no problem and everything is fine as it is. Essentially if you have anything negative to say you get labeled as a hater. And frankly, people get tired of arguing points with people that play the game wearing rose colored glasses.
Case in point:deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »ESO is great......there are a lot of trolls and stuck up little kids who want super cool shiny armor drops whole set per dungeon without doing work for it. The whole MMO community as a whole has become next to worthless. EVERY game has haters who talk smack and say how "the game will fail! leave now!". Some times I wonder if these people have even actually played the game lol. My opinion, if you don't have something good to say, don't say it at all. But if it's constructive criticism, then go right ahead.
"ESO is great". No problems here. Anyone that says negative things are just "trolls and stuck up little kids" and "haters who talk smack". Apparently we are not allowed to say anything negative unless we say how wonderful the game is first. <sigh>
That is the kind of thing you deal with anytime you post negative feedback. When people post feedback they aren't going to post their entire thoughts on the game with every post. If what they happen to be saying at the time happens to be negative, so be it. It doesn't mean that they see nothing positive in the game, but they are only posting what is relative to the point they are making.
Constructive criticism can be negative, and does not need to include a proposed solution. That is the developers job. They need to hear what people are unhappy about and then decide on the best approach to resolve it. Negative feedback is perfectly acceptable feedback.
The leaving is very real, and far more noticeable with 5 guilds. Sure leaving is to be expected, to a certain degree, but it seems rather high for such a short period.
As for people not saying what game they are going to that is better, I imagine most are going back to whatever game they left to come here. There is no real reason to broadcast it. They were looking for something better than what they were playing, and didn't find it.
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Daethz✭✭✭Well, if you enjoy playing as a mage with a staff, eso's great.
If you want to melee, you will get your butt kicked by everything everywhere everytime.Waiting, and watching, for the return of Melee Weapons.
-Subsidiary of The Fighters Guild1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭People post negatively and sarcastically because they realize posts here don't matter. Zenimax doesn't read them, or if they do, they don't care. Why should anyone care about these forums when Zenimax clearly doesn't?1 -
Kililin✭✭✭✭How does ZOS deserve constructive criticism? at least i would hope for statements regarding the points brought up. Also explanation of actions and decisions would be nice.
ZOS has chosen to go down silent, and you have to be in denial to not see people leaving and general opinion on the game, not only here but on the internets...
They do not deserve any kind of feedback, except cancellations. Because either they dont care or know quite well whats wrong, else they would engage in communications with the community.3 -
jeradlub17_ESO✭✭✭
LOL Yeah right...That must be why I see so many NBs and DKs in pvp......oooh wait that's meleeWell, if you enjoy playing as a mage with a staff, eso's great.
If you want to melee, you will get your butt kicked by everything everywhere everytime.
- Dallamar, Sorc, EP
- Krushim of KrushimTV on Youtube and Twitch
- https://www.youtube.com/c/KrushimTV
- http://www.twitch.tv/krushim0 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, whether or not a game is actually good doesn't seem to matter, the negative people always seem to outvoice the people who have positive things to say. This causes things to change, sometimes unnecessarily, and makes even more people complain and start leaving. Hmmm, sound familiar?Beware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!0 -
Daethz✭✭✭jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »
Yeah? You see alot of DK's and NB's? They are probably all using destro staffs or bows regaurdless of class, sir.
And the ones who arent are noobs, they dont know how rigged destrostaff is and will get destroyed by anyone with that.
I suppose there are people like me, who refuse to use staff/bow because I rather enjoy melee gameplay even if its insanely underpowered.Edited by Daethz on June 10, 2014 10:58PMWaiting, and watching, for the return of Melee Weapons.
-Subsidiary of The Fighters Guild1 -
Kililin✭✭✭✭jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »
Yeah? You see alot of DK's and NB's? They are probably all using destro staffs or bows regaurdless of class, sir.
And the ones who arent are noobs, they dont know how rigged destrostaff is and will get destroyed by anyone with that.
I suppose there are people like me, who refuse to use staff/bow because I rather enjoy melee gameplay even if its insanely underpowered.
even if the NB plays melee he is better off with resto staff ambushes, lol
Therefore we should nerf ambush damage, its the ZOS logic0 -
Paladin_echo1✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »People post negatively and sarcastically because they realize posts here don't matter. Zenimax doesn't read them, or if they do, they don't care. Why should anyone care about these forums when Zenimax clearly doesn't?
Ya know, sometimes this is extremely believable. Like for instance on feedback how they say you won't hear anything from them, but they will "consider it..." After receiving that email, it almost makes me believe this. How do we know our feedback is not just being fed to a circular file? And if it is a legitimate bug like some of the other things, how do we know they are taking the proper action or even acknowledging the players in the forum? When it came down to nerfing the DKs, that happened pretty fast (and will happen again probably with the same speed) but many of the other fixes I have seen have not been addressed in a thread even after they have been reported.
They could do more in the area of customer service.0 -
Shiroro✭✭✭The CMs absolutely read the posts on the forums and on a few 3rd party sites as well. That's pretty clear.
The million dollar question is this: Why isn't the proper feedback climbing the ladder to the people who actually make the decisions? Why doesn't Zeni understand what's really important and why aren't they focusing on that first?
I highly doubt the CMs aren't comprehending the feedback they're getting. They're either not invited to share the information they have or Zeni management just isn't listening. That is not good. That is nothing to be positive about.1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, special thanks to whoever reported my post and got it deleted.
Some folks have absolutely no sense of humor ... at all.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
Lettigall✭✭✭✭✭
✭I completely understand people who are leaving to be honest I'm on the edge to leaving to. Class imbalance, bots, exploiters, bugs(many even from beta).
When I first heard about ESO I had so big expectations, it was even before I played Skyrim. Idea of playing mmo in elder scrolls universe was awesome.
And when I got beta invite I was very excited, first beta weekend went very fast and I thought after they fix all bugs it will be @#$%^*% amazing. Next beta weekend same bugs and even no changes in last beta.
And then came release date, all bugs from beta still were there. And till this day I have feeling like I'm playing beta and I have to pay for it... I'm still gonna play at least for 1 more month...Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!0 -
Kililin✭✭✭✭The CMs absolutely read the posts on the forums and on a few 3rd party sites as well. That's pretty clear.
The million dollar question is this: Why isn't the proper feedback climbing the ladder to the people who actually make the decisions? Why doesn't Zeni understand what's really important and why aren't they focusing on that first?
I highly doubt the CMs aren't comprehending the feedback they're getting. They're either not invited to share the information they have or Zeni management just isn't listening. That is not good. That is nothing to be positive about.
Either they have some statistical data that says our feedback is stupid and incorrect.
Or they are adjusting, creating, nerfing and buffing according to someones "Vision of the game".
I cant imagine a third reason, if we postulate CMs, CRM and Dev are competent.0