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Gap closer needs nerf now gap extender is nerfed
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Every single gap closer requires a target except bolt escape. Bolt escape can be used as both a gap closer or gap extender. Being able to jump in and out of combat at will should cost more than jumping into combat and being stuck there4 -
By my calculation, you would need approximately 274 new threads on the exact same thing before ZoS will see your point2 -
Venithar✭✭✭joshisanonymous wrote: »Now, the 1st is the same cost. We're left with each additional cast costing 1.5x what it used to cost. Divide the 7 casts that were available before by 1.5 to get the number of casts available now and you end up with 4.6. So let's round down in your favor.
Your math is wrong, ZoS doesn't know how to nerf things properly. *IF* I only had to pay 1.5x my pre-patch cost, I wouldn't mind; however, it's 1.5x the base cost, not the reduced cost from armor and what not. Further, we are double penalized, we get a mana regen stop when we cast it as well, so we lose more mana there as well.0 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »Since Crystal Shards has a range of 28 , not sure why you are even in gap closer range to begin with.
well, Im sure you play pvp, then you should know everybody sneaks on everybody else. Its not if I want to be in the gap closer's range.
So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
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Venithar✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.2 -
Sallakat✭✭✭I have never grown to hate the word 'nerf' till I started reading ESO forums.Rebuilt - Aldmeri Dominion
Kaia Linnea - templar
Ruusu - sorcerer
Aino - nightblade0 -
It should be balance, right? Bolt escape has a travel distance of 15 meters.
DK's chain reaches 22 meters and cost the same as bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out of range fast, and two BE in a roll now cost (base)1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.
NB's teleport strike also reaches 22 meters, cost about the same as bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.
Edit, as suggested:
Templar's Focused Charge and it's morphs also reaches 22 meters, cost even less than bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.
Silver Leash (morph of Silver Bolt of Fighters Guild) reaches 28 meters!, doesn't even cost magicka, a sorc definitely need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.
Either these need out right higher cost (to 1000 base magicka or stamina, just as two BE in a roll would cost a sorc), or their ranges need to be shortened to 10 meters.
here is the problem with your analysis; mages are shard spamming some of the highest dps from a large distance already. many distance abilities are 28, meters 6 m farther than the 22 gap closer. so if you are running in point blank to shard someone from 1/2 a meter away then you are correct, gap closers shut you down. seeing that you, or any other mage, is always trying to keep as much distance as possible this is a moot point; you are shooting from ideally 23-28 meters then escaping, not shooting from 1m then bolting to short a distance to get out of the way.if this was the case there would be no conversation or balance update. mages can escape too easy and even with penalty you get a big head start from a distance shot and a bolt.1 -
Sheneria✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.
You are right it doesn't. Your point?0 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.
Shadow Cloak will rarely help to escape. It is an ability that can be used to avoid a strike, but not escape the fight. And definitely not from the 50 people group where most casters use Inner Light all the time.
And what about escape for the ganked Temps or DKs?
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Venithar✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.
You are right it doesn't. Your point?
umm... it does, considering I just sat in a group with a NB that got away from every bad encounter in wabba using it, whereas I got to die, as such, time for it to get a nerf since it is a get out of combat free skill as well (let's just ignore the fact you can counter it, since everyone ignored the fact BE could be countered as well)0 -
Sheneria✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.
You are right it doesn't. Your point?
umm... it does, considering I just sat in a group with a NB that got away from every bad encounter in wabba using it, whereas I got to die, as such, time for it to get a nerf since it is a get out of combat free skill as well (let's just ignore the fact you can counter it, since everyone ignored the fact BE could be countered as well)
Sorry not a problem if your group sucks and can't use talons,AOEs, dots or Bolt Escape (yes you can get a NB that uses SD to escape with BE).
Also SD does not drop combat so you cannot re stealth or places you 40 m away from enemys.Edited by Sheneria on June 10, 2014 7:19AM1 -
Venithar✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.
You are right it doesn't. Your point?
umm... it does, considering I just sat in a group with a NB that got away from every bad encounter in wabba using it, whereas I got to die, as such, time for it to get a nerf since it is a get out of combat free skill as well (let's just ignore the fact you can counter it, since everyone ignored the fact BE could be countered as well)
Sorry not a problem if your group sucks and can't use talons, AOEs or Bolt Escape (yes you can get a NB that uses SD to escape with BE).
Also SD does not drop combat so you can re stealth or places you 40 m away from enemys.
You obviously did not read what I typed.0 -
Sheneria✭✭✭Why should we waste our time reading gibberish from a madman that thinks NB escape ability can be compared to pre/post nerfed Bolt escape.Edited by Sheneria on June 10, 2014 7:24AM3
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piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.
You are right it doesn't. Your point?
umm... it does, considering I just sat in a group with a NB that got away from every bad encounter in wabba using it, whereas I got to die, as such, time for it to get a nerf since it is a get out of combat free skill as well (let's just ignore the fact you can counter it, since everyone ignored the fact BE could be countered as well)
having a skill on you bar(magelight) grants you 100% counter to cloak. nothing can guarantee a response to bolt. they can nuke from outside gap closer distance then bolt an additional 15m before you can even see were u got shot from. It is completely different. anything that has a 100% counter is a different conversation. that is why talons got changed,with a no target spell even if you were blocking or have cc immunity you got hit , it ignored everything = uncounterable = changes. if you can find anything in this game with no way to respond they will change it eventually. It wont be a tone of stuff because most things can be blocked.2 -
Venithar✭✭✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.
You are right it doesn't. Your point?
umm... it does, considering I just sat in a group with a NB that got away from every bad encounter in wabba using it, whereas I got to die, as such, time for it to get a nerf since it is a get out of combat free skill as well (let's just ignore the fact you can counter it, since everyone ignored the fact BE could be countered as well)
having a skill on you bar(magelight) grants you 100% counter to cloak. nothing can guarantee a response to bolt. they can nuke from outside gap closer distance then bolt an additional 15m before you can even see were u got shot from. It is completely different. anything that has a 100% counter is a different conversation. that is why talons got changed,with a no target spell even if you were blocking or have cc immunity you got hit , it ignored everything = uncounterable = changes. if you can find anything in this game with no way to respond they will change it eventually. It wont be a tone of stuff because most things can be blocked.
I see, so now I am forced to slot a skill that I don't normally use to counter a get out of combat free skill? dang, woe is me, I guess I will just have to cry because I may actually have to use other skills as intended to counter stuff... like idk, gap closer with longer range then the gap extenders.1 -
no, only one person in a group needs to use magelight just like one need s rapid manover. you just need a group0
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ForTheRealm✭✭✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So what you are saying: only Sorcs should have a right to guaranteed escape?!
No other class have such ability that gives a chance to escape.
I don't count "gap closers" because they are made to run towards enemy, and not the other direction... ;-)
Yes, because Shadow Cloak totally doesn't allow you to get away from the 50 people your are surrounded by.
You are right it doesn't. Your point?
umm... it does, considering I just sat in a group with a NB that got away from every bad encounter in wabba using it, whereas I got to die, as such, time for it to get a nerf since it is a get out of combat free skill as well (let's just ignore the fact you can counter it, since everyone ignored the fact BE could be countered as well)
having a skill on you bar(magelight) grants you 100% counter to cloak. nothing can guarantee a response to bolt. they can nuke from outside gap closer distance then bolt an additional 15m before you can even see were u got shot from. It is completely different. anything that has a 100% counter is a different conversation. that is why talons got changed,with a no target spell even if you were blocking or have cc immunity you got hit , it ignored everything = uncounterable = changes. if you can find anything in this game with no way to respond they will change it eventually. It wont be a tone of stuff because most things can be blocked.
I see, so now I am forced to slot a skill that I don't normally use to counter a get out of combat free skill? dang, woe is me, I guess I will just have to cry because I may actually have to use other skills as intended to counter stuff... like idk, gap closer with longer range then the gap extenders.
You are not forced to do anything, but you actually have a choice to slot the stealth counter ability if you want it (plus you get 20% additional crit chance, if you get Inner Light, which is really good bonus).Edited by ForTheRealm on June 10, 2014 7:39AM0 -
Venithar✭✭✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »no, only one person in a group needs to use magelight just like one need s rapid manover. you just need a groupdylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »you arnt forced the choice is there, there is a choice though.piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »You are not forced to do anything, but you actually have a choice to slot the stealth counter ability if you want it (plus you get 20% additional crit chance, if you get Inner Light, which is really good bonus).
Thanks for making every mages point for him.... you all had the means to deal with BE, just as you claim we all have the means to deal with SC
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ForTheRealm✭✭✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »no, only one person in a group needs to use magelight just like one need s rapid manover. you just need a groupdylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »you arnt forced the choice is there, there is a choice though.piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »You are not forced to do anything, but you actually have a choice to slot the stealth counter ability if you want it (plus you get 20% additional crit chance, if you get Inner Light, which is really good bonus).
Thanks for making every mages point for him.... you all had the means to deal with BE, just as you claim we all have the means to deal with SC
What are the means to deal with BE? I asked this several times and got no real answers. Some were pointing to gap closers, which cannot counter BE as they need to target an enemy and are out of range after 2 zips... So what are the counters?0 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭Theres one thing you missed.
Gap closers can not be used to get away from a battle, and back to it with full resources.Edited by Gisgo on June 10, 2014 7:48AM0 -
Venithar✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »What are the means to deal with BE? I asked this several times and got no real answers. Some were pointing to gap closers, which cannot counter BE as they need to target an enemy and are out of range after 2 zips... So what are the counters?
dylan gave 1 way, which is rapid maneuver, another way is another sorc with BE, then ofc, they is a way for a NB to move as fast as a sprinting horse (while stealthed) if he is set up for it. The point is, there are ways to deal with it, If you are not just trying to solo everything under the sun (you know, like the typical DK does)0 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭So to summarize it: best counter to Sorc BE is... a Sorc with BE...
LOLEdited by ForTheRealm on June 10, 2014 8:01AM0 -
Zubba✭✭✭This forum is like daycare center forumAdd PvP loot drops for some risk/reward in this game.
Captain Morgan Society
Zub
How'd ya feel like scraping the barncles off me rudder.. Matey..1 -
Venithar✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So to summarize it: best counter to Sorc BE is... a Sorc with BE...
LOL
yea, exactly, let's just ignore the other methods stated, cuz you know, they obviously were intended as fluff.0 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So to summarize it: best counter to Sorc BE is... a Sorc with BE...
LOL
yea, exactly, let's just ignore the other methods stated, cuz you know, they obviously were intended as fluff.
What other methods?
Please state: class/ability and the way it can be used to counter, and then we can discuss it.
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Venithar✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So to summarize it: best counter to Sorc BE is... a Sorc with BE...
LOL
yea, exactly, let's just ignore the other methods stated, cuz you know, they obviously were intended as fluff.
What other methods?
Please state: class/ability and the way it can be used to counter, and then we can discuss it.piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »What are the means to deal with BE? I asked this several times and got no real answers. Some were pointing to gap closers, which cannot counter BE as they need to target an enemy and are out of range after 2 zips... So what are the counters?
dylan gave 1 way, which is rapid maneuver, another way is another sorc with BE, then ofc, they is a way for a NB to move as fast as a sprinting horse (while stealthed) if he is set up for it. The point is, there are ways to deal with it, If you are not just trying to solo everything under the sun (you know, like the typical DK does)
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ForTheRealm✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »So to summarize it: best counter to Sorc BE is... a Sorc with BE...
LOL
yea, exactly, let's just ignore the other methods stated, cuz you know, they obviously were intended as fluff.
What other methods?
Please state: class/ability and the way it can be used to counter, and then we can discuss it.piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »What are the means to deal with BE? I asked this several times and got no real answers. Some were pointing to gap closers, which cannot counter BE as they need to target an enemy and are out of range after 2 zips... So what are the counters?
dylan gave 1 way, which is rapid maneuver, another way is another sorc with BE, then ofc, they is a way for a NB to move as fast as a sprinting horse (while stealthed) if he is set up for it. The point is, there are ways to deal with it, If you are not just trying to solo everything under the sun (you know, like the typical DK does)
So what you are saying, that you don't know any BE counters and only heard some rumours about them? Or you just repeat that the best counter to Sorc BE is another Sorc BE....?
Rapid Manouver can be used to counter Boundless Storm , but not BE (I guess you have never tried to follow a Sorc with just a Rapid Manoeuvre.) And you definitely never used Path of Darkness (NB ability which also increases speed, but only when NB takes a specifc and not too long route).
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Venithar✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »And you definitely never used Path of Darkness (NB ability which also increases speed, but only when NB takes a specifc and not too long route).
Yes, ofc, I don't know anyone that can outrun a sprinting mount, because that would just be insane right? Seriously, you should go play with your NB more. I'll even help you out a little....
Step 1: Become a vampire
Step 2: Get a certain mundus stone (hint: it may or may not be a horse by another name)
Step 3: ......2