Gap closer needs nerf now gap extender is nerfed

tplink3r1 · June 2014

im 100% sure they will never nerf gap closers, you can keep trolling, but they will never change it.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Well , do remember then , if they make these change to the gap closer they must NOT require a target anymore also , just like BE.

thats fine, I have no objection to that. kudos for agreement.

Fine by me also , we agree and we are both happy at the end.

*Shake hands*

canghai · June 2014

OP a very reasonable argument about this issue, however zos doesnt listen to reason and logic, only way for us to be heard is to keep on complaining about this in the forums like the pro-BE nerfers

crislevin · June 2014

tplink3r1 wrote: »

im 100% sure they will never nerf gap closers, you can keep trolling, but they will never change it.

well, I do make outrageous argument at times, but this time I thought it over carefully.

its only fair. True, BE has advantages, the target is a big one. But its shortage in travel distance made up much of that.

they can increase cost a bit more, but by 50%, and remove equipment cost reduction at the same time, and stop magicka regen for 4 seconds, practically increase cost by another 150+, is way over doing it.

If they have problem with people use BE to travel, they can nerf that aspect, a blind nerf as they did, doesn't seem fair.

Ajaxtu · June 2014

Well here's how i see it. I only ever used BE when i got hit with a gap closer, because it was my only way out of a pack of melee about to destroy me.

NOW when my fragile sorcerer gets leashed, or whichever skill since all other classes have a closer available to them, I can use it once, and just get re-leashed, over and over because the gap can never be opened with a single cast of it. Therefore, I get leashed once? It's over, there is no "escape".

Keep in mind no sorcerer worth his *** is sitting there at full magicka just waiting to spam the whole 2 times he will be able to open the gap.

I'm not mad over the changes, I could actually care less, but watching the forums and all the crybabies get there way only makes me want to reciprocate the tears and start marching for nerfs....

It's an evil downward spiral ZOS is putting themselves in.

stungateb14_ESO · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

Could of sworn that your target gets dropped once sorc cast BE/Streak am I wrong?

lets see, if a sorc cast one BE, even if target is dropped (I dont know that), he/she is still, very much, within your range.

if a sorc cast two BE, assume target dropped, he/she is out of your range anyway.

question is, if you can close a gap of 22 m, whats sorc' counter to stretch the gap to 22 m? anwser, 1000 magicka BEs.

You know in combat if you lose target due to your opponent's strategy there is a time frame in which your adversary has to adjust even a split second in which as per this discussion would have to re-acquire the target and seeing that BE is a instant cast you have your second streak.

crislevin · June 2014

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

Could of sworn that your target gets dropped once sorc cast BE/Streak am I wrong?

lets see, if a sorc cast one BE, even if target is dropped (I dont know that), he/she is still, very much, within your range.

if a sorc cast two BE, assume target dropped, he/she is out of your range anyway.

question is, if you can close a gap of 22 m, whats sorc' counter to stretch the gap to 22 m? anwser, 1000 magicka BEs.

You know in combat if you lose target due to your opponent's strategy there is a time frame in which your adversary has to adjust even a split second in which as per this discussion would have to re-acquire the target and seeing that BE is a instant cast you have your second streak.

lol, if you want to use the argument of battlefield chaos, lets consider the following.

1. a sorc in the battle field can never reserve 700 magicka to begin with, without significantly sacrifice damage output.
2. a sorc mostly use gap opener when hit with a gap closer (if I intend to participate a battle, wtf would i run away at full magicka for?), and in large pvp battle, even if the guy initiated gap closer couldn't find you at first, somebody else will.

Asava · June 2014

I've been saying that since the 1.2 patch notes came out.

All gap closers have more range than BE does by a minimum of 7m. that needs to change. Either BE gets extended to 30m or gap closers all get set to 15m. They also need to remove the regen halt after casting. Gap closers do not have a penalty that stops their majicka regen when they use it so why should BE have one still? BE is the only Tier 5 ability that has 2 penalties when you use it, regen halt and now majicka per use penalty. Use BE twice in a row and the sorc loses majicka regen for 8 seconds, cost doubles every use within 4 seconds, and the range does not allow a sorc to escape any gap closer unless they use BE 2-3x. That is some BS there.

stungateb14_ESO · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

Could of sworn that your target gets dropped once sorc cast BE/Streak am I wrong?

lets see, if a sorc cast one BE, even if target is dropped (I dont know that), he/she is still, very much, within your range.

if a sorc cast two BE, assume target dropped, he/she is out of your range anyway.

question is, if you can close a gap of 22 m, whats sorc' counter to stretch the gap to 22 m? anwser, 1000 magicka BEs.

You know in combat if you lose target due to your opponent's strategy there is a time frame in which your adversary has to adjust even a split second in which as per this discussion would have to re-acquire the target and seeing that BE is a instant cast you have your second streak.

lol, if you want to use the argument of battlefield chaos, lets consider the following.

1. a sorc in the battle field can never reserve 700 magicka to begin with, without significantly sacrifice damage output.
2. a sorc mostly use gap opener when hit with a gap closer (if I intend to participate a battle, wtf would i run away at full magicka for?), and in large pvp battle, even if the guy initiated gap closer couldn't find you at first, somebody else will.

The ideas of a person that goes in to battle without survivability in mind can never be the basis of an argument for change.

To me your ideas stem from anger rather than logic and I can relate to that a lot of changes since launch have made me rather angry as well.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

If they had it so Invasion, Critical charge, and Teleport strike could just point in a direction and end up 22m away and get away from all combat, or DK chain could latch onto a branch or something and swing away, then this would all be agreeable. But, its not.

ipkonfigcub18_ESO · June 2014

DK's chain is not a Traveling ability
NB Teleport is not a Traveling ability
Templar's Focused Charge is not a Traveling ability
Silver Leash is not a Traveling ability

At what point did you not understand this? We need a target, Bolt Escape does not.

crislevin · June 2014

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

Could of sworn that your target gets dropped once sorc cast BE/Streak am I wrong?

lets see, if a sorc cast one BE, even if target is dropped (I dont know that), he/she is still, very much, within your range.

if a sorc cast two BE, assume target dropped, he/she is out of your range anyway.

question is, if you can close a gap of 22 m, whats sorc' counter to stretch the gap to 22 m? anwser, 1000 magicka BEs.

You know in combat if you lose target due to your opponent's strategy there is a time frame in which your adversary has to adjust even a split second in which as per this discussion would have to re-acquire the target and seeing that BE is a instant cast you have your second streak.

lol, if you want to use the argument of battlefield chaos, lets consider the following.

1. a sorc in the battle field can never reserve 700 magicka to begin with, without significantly sacrifice damage output.
2. a sorc mostly use gap opener when hit with a gap closer (if I intend to participate a battle, wtf would i run away at full magicka for?), and in large pvp battle, even if the guy initiated gap closer couldn't find you at first, somebody else will.

The ideas of a person that goes in to battle without survivability in mind can never be the basis of an argument for change.

To me your ideas stem from anger rather than logic and I can relate to that a lot of changes since launch have made me rather angry as well.

what anger? LOL, I am just stating the fact of range, cost, and hidden cost, then ask for a somewhat balanced adjustment. I would be spewing nonsense if I am truly pissed.

I don't do PvP enough to be affected by this significantly, but the numbers don't lie.

Talketzanto · June 2014

Good luck trying to use NB teleport to catch a sorc....By times our animation is done, the Sorc has all ready done 3 tele's rofl

In the case you get the jump on the Sorc first with tele, they just bolt away and youll be standing there stunned

ipkonfigcub18_ESO · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

what anger? LOL, I am just stating the fact of range, cost, and hidden cost, then ask for a somewhat balanced adjustment. I would be spewing nonsense if I am truly pissed.

I don't do PvP enough to be affected by this significantly, but the numbers don't lie.

Please read what I just typed above. Understand why there are differences to your ability and my ability. The change to BE was a justified change. My ability wasn't changed because it's NOT an escape ability. It puts pressure on you.

You were only able to escape 100%. Now you need to justify your timing to escape just like I need to justify my porting to you.

Most of those in here are trying to hand you Logic and you wish not to grasp it.

canghai · June 2014

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

DK's chain is not a Traveling ability
NB Teleport is not a Traveling ability
Templar's Focused Charge is not a Traveling ability
Silver Leash is not a Traveling ability

At what point did you not understand this? We need a target, Bolt Escape does not.

so?
can u elaborate further onto why gap closers that needs a target gets to be more powerful than gap maker without a target?

cant? thats what i thought?

crislevin · June 2014

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

DK's chain is not a Traveling ability
NB Teleport is not a Traveling ability
Templar's Focused Charge is not a Traveling ability
Silver Leash is not a Traveling ability

At what point did you not understand this? We need a target, Bolt Escape does not.

exactly whats the purpose of BE? why don't you explain to me? then lets see if it actually does its job.
btw, making everything bold doesn't make it legit.

Asava · June 2014

Oh please.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

crislevin · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

If they had it so Invasion, Critical charge, and Teleport strike could just point in a direction and end up 22m away and get away from all combat, or DK chain could latch onto a branch or something and swing away, then this would all be agreeable. But, its not.

lol, 22m away, you do know BE only travels 15 right? and now practically cost 100% more than any of those skills.

SilverWF · June 2014

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

We need a target

All you need is brain.

How the hell BE cost increase will free you from having target for your gap-closer?
So, this argument cost nothing.

We must look at this only how at fight abylities: one (Sorc) trying to escape and another trying to not let him do that
And now Sorc lost his escape ability

Also I'm agree logic will not helps ZO to realise their fails.

Only tons of complains will help to do what we want from this game.

crislevin · June 2014

delete

ipkonfigcub18_ESO · June 2014

canghai wrote: »

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

DK's chain is not a Traveling ability
NB Teleport is not a Traveling ability
Templar's Focused Charge is not a Traveling ability
Silver Leash is not a Traveling ability

At what point did you not understand this? We need a target, Bolt Escape does not.

so?
can u elaborate further onto why gap closers that needs a target gets to be more powerful than gap maker without a target?

cant? thats what i thought?

I just clearly gave you a good example and you ignored it, so I'll post it again for you:

Please read what I just typed above. Understand why there are differences to your ability and my ability. The change to BE was a justified change. My ability wasn't changed because it's NOT an escape ability. It puts pressure on you.

You were only able to escape 100%. Now you need to justify your timing to escape just like I need to justify my porting to you.

Most of those in here are trying to hand you Logic and you wish not to grasp it.

SilverWF · June 2014

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

Please read what I just typed above. Understand why there are differences to your ability and my ability. The change to BE was a justified change. My ability wasn't changed because it's NOT an escape ability. It puts pressure on you.

You were only able to escape 100%. Now you need to justify your timing to escape just like I need to justify my porting to you.

Most of those in here are trying to hand you Logic and you wish not to grasp it.

What a point to write bold? Let me try...

You need to realise what 15m escape with 4 sec cooldown is not damn escape but "kill me" ability since most of gap-closers have a bonus damage based on distance traveled!

stungateb14_ESO · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

Could of sworn that your target gets dropped once sorc cast BE/Streak am I wrong?

lets see, if a sorc cast one BE, even if target is dropped (I dont know that), he/she is still, very much, within your range.

if a sorc cast two BE, assume target dropped, he/she is out of your range anyway.

question is, if you can close a gap of 22 m, whats sorc' counter to stretch the gap to 22 m? anwser, 1000 magicka BEs.

You know in combat if you lose target due to your opponent's strategy there is a time frame in which your adversary has to adjust even a split second in which as per this discussion would have to re-acquire the target and seeing that BE is a instant cast you have your second streak.

lol, if you want to use the argument of battlefield chaos, lets consider the following.

1. a sorc in the battle field can never reserve 700 magicka to begin with, without significantly sacrifice damage output.
2. a sorc mostly use gap opener when hit with a gap closer (if I intend to participate a battle, wtf would i run away at full magicka for?), and in large pvp battle, even if the guy initiated gap closer couldn't find you at first, somebody else will.

The ideas of a person that goes in to battle without survivability in mind can never be the basis of an argument for change.

To me your ideas stem from anger rather than logic and I can relate to that a lot of changes since launch have made me rather angry as well.

what anger? LOL, I am just stating the fact of range, cost, and hidden cost, then ask for a somewhat balanced adjustment. I would be spewing nonsense if I am truly pissed.

I don't do PvP enough to be affected by this significantly, but the numbers don't lie.

I wouldnt worry about the change in all seriousness its probably a bug as ZOS likes to cop out to a "display error" on the hidden cost anyway.

ipkonfigcub18_ESO · June 2014

After seeing the unclear angered response from @crislevin it is quite clear there is no hope further to show the difference between what is fact and fiction. I even admit that when angered I choose to ignore what is right and logic in the conversation.

He/she is now doing the same thing - and I understand it is human to react but until this person comes to the discussion table with a clear mind without anger or frustration, there will be no calm path.

We'll try logic later.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

canghai wrote: »

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

DK's chain is not a Traveling ability
NB Teleport is not a Traveling ability
Templar's Focused Charge is not a Traveling ability
Silver Leash is not a Traveling ability

At what point did you not understand this? We need a target, Bolt Escape does not.

so?
can u elaborate further onto why gap closers that needs a target gets to be more powerful than gap maker without a target?

cant? thats what i thought?

Can you elaborate why BE needs to allow both the ability to be a gap closer and the ability to escape, but also escape the distance of a gap closer?

Instead of assuming you do not have an answer as you had done above.. I will start it for you even.

Yes, I think this would add value to the ability because ______.

Cimos · June 2014

Hmm, maybe you can use more than 1 ability to get away? I dont even use BE. If I run from a fight, that means I lost anyway. If I am running from a zerg, then I am an idiot for getting that close.

Maybe you should try Crushing shock instead of BE when they get close. Has the same effect, you just dont move.

ipkonfigcub18_ESO · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

Please read what I just typed above. Understand why there are differences to your ability and my ability. The change to BE was a justified change. My ability wasn't changed because it's NOT an escape ability. It puts pressure on you.

You were only able to escape 100%. Now you need to justify your timing to escape just like I need to justify my porting to you.

Most of those in here are trying to hand you Logic and you wish not to grasp it.

What a point to write bold? Let me try...

You need to realise what 15m escape with 4 sec cooldown is not damn escape but "kill me" ability since most of gap-closers have a bonus damage based on distance traveled!

No one said you had to stop spamming the ability. Sorc got used to spamming it and escaping 99.99% of the fights they new they couldn't win. Now you're told "you must use your ability with more logic and precision behind it instead of escaping a raid of players".

Want more common sense? Try 6Sigma (teaches people common sense in how to handle situation) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma

crislevin · June 2014

Cimos wrote: »

Hmm, maybe you can use more than 1 ability to get away? I dont even use BE. If I run from a fight, that means I lost anyway. If I am running from a zerg, then I am an idiot for getting that close.

Maybe you should try Crushing shock instead of BE when they get close. Has the same effect, you just dont move.

Im not sure gap closer's instant in your face style leaves you time to using crushing shock.

canghai · June 2014

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

canghai wrote: »

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

DK's chain is not a Traveling ability
NB Teleport is not a Traveling ability
Templar's Focused Charge is not a Traveling ability
Silver Leash is not a Traveling ability

At what point did you not understand this? We need a target, Bolt Escape does not.

so?
can u elaborate further onto why gap closers that needs a target gets to be more powerful than gap maker without a target?

cant? thats what i thought?

I just clearly gave you a good example and you ignored it, so I'll post it again for you:

Please read what I just typed above. Understand why there are differences to your ability and my ability. The change to BE was a justified change. My ability wasn't changed because it's NOT an escape ability. It puts pressure on you.

You were only able to escape 100%. Now you need to justify your timing to escape just like I need to justify my porting to you.

Most of those in here are trying to hand you Logic and you wish not to grasp it.

how much does it cost to cast ur port? how much does it cost to cast BE?

what is the range on ur port? what is the range on BE?

as u can see BE is much more inferior

Asava · June 2014

How about all gap closers get a 4 second regen halt as well as a penalty for multiple use within 4 seconds as well. Also tone the range down to 15m for all gap closers. Then it would be equal and you all are squawking about equality.