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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Auction house is a must!
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alphawolph✭✭✭
And please, No AH. It would ruin so much of the player economy thats current is building quite well.
Please look at the arguments for those who wants the AH.
1. Simple
2. Can buy anything you need
3. Dont have to find a good trade guild
Correct me if I'm wrong. But, you state these things like they are bad, correct?
So you don't want an Ah cause you like it
1. Hard to sell things.
2. Not being able to find what you need.
3. Don't have to be in a guild full of people trying to make a buck off of you instead of being your friends.
Cause I don't get why you like those things.
4 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭alphawolph wrote: »
And please, No AH. It would ruin so much of the player economy thats current is building quite well.
Please look at the arguments for those who wants the AH.
1. Simple
2. Can buy anything you need
3. Dont have to find a good trade guild
Correct me if I'm wrong. But, you state these things like they are bad, correct?
So you don't want an Ah cause you like it
1. Hard to sell things.
2. Not being able to find what you need.
3. Don't have to be in a guild full of people trying to make a buck off of you instead of being your friends.
Cause I don't get why you like those things.
You are half right. I state the list because they are bad, yes. My fault if I was unclear on this.
My cause why there should be no AH is cause it should take some effort to do something! As I understand it, that's what ESO is about.
There are so many MMOs to choose from who is the type "everything easy, fast, now, no effort". Some people likes that, I understand. I do not.
And in ESO, you are free to do what you wish, but if you want something, at least you have to put some effort into it.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
alphawolph✭✭✭alphawolph wrote: »Every game with an global auction house is subject to the "buy low, sell high".
Some players make a career out of it.
The problem is... when a player is paying 100,000 gold for a level 10 item, for his new character. Exageration, yes, but hopefully that drives the point home. With multiple markets, you can shop around for a better deal.
But this situation helps the new player. Instead of buying level 10 gear he should be selling his drops and making bank.
I apologize for not being clear... I was referring to other games like WoW, SWTOR, RIFT, etc. This game is different in many ways than those games.
I am absolutely talking about wow. A brand new player can farm up copper ore and sell it for 80ish gold a stack right now in game. And, its slow as heck right now cause everyone drifted off waiting for the expansion. When the expansion hits those numbers will shoot up. I've gotten as much as 300g a stack at the beginning of an expansion.
That means a brand new player can make enough gold before level 20 to pay for their mount and any swag he could ever need.
The economy does nothing but help new players in wow.
I wish we had as helpful as an economy as WOWs old stable one.
1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No, its' a fantasy. Give me one example (besides D3) of a game that has an auction house controlled by bots and forcing everyone to pay skyrocketed prices.
I'll go download the game right now and take a look to see if you are correct.
As far as games that have issues with a global auction house, any that have a global auction house.....
Yet none of the ones I have played with a global auction house have this issue.
So I'm going to assume the reason you don't want to give me the name of any specific game is because you know this gold farmer/seller argument is exaggerated. Because if it wasn't I don't understand why you wouldn't want to give me an example.
The truth is auction houses provide for a broad and competitive market that lowers the price for consumers. It does the opposite of what you are implying it does.
Edited by Jeremy on June 7, 2014 12:43PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But in the end this is all just moot speculation anyway. Because I can easily prove to you auction houses lead to a competitive market place that drives prices downward. Not up. Just go play any of those games I listed in my previous post and you will see that to be the case.
So you can continue to claim auction houses cause bots to inflate the market and make everyone pay higher prices. But they don't.
@Jeremy
1) No. I never said anything about them raising prices on the AH. In fact, it's the exact opposite. I think I mentioned that many times.
"Walmart isn't able to dominate the local competition here in the States because of Chinese sweat shops. If that was the case all the local stores would have to do is open up their own sweat shops to compete. But they can't. Because there are laws against that kind of activity here.
So corporations produce overseas where these laws do not exist. And this allows them to play by a different set of rules than their local competitors."
2) You basically just backed up what I said. Yes, WalMart hurts the Mom n Pop shops because they produce overseas. I don't understand why you're confused. A ware house set up in China paying a nickel an hour for hundreds of employees to farm mats and gold all day is just like the production shops WalMart uses overseas. They are adding a product for the American players (in this case gold). There is such a big market here for gold because the American dollar goes a HELLUVA lot further with them (Chinese) than it does here.
Lets say 100k ESO Gold costs you $10 bucks. That $10 is worth a lot more to them than it is to you. If their "Sweatshops" paid like an American minimum wage, they wouldn't be charging $10 for 100k gold...
If you were farming, how much gold do you acquire in an hour? What's minimum wage now, like 8 bucks? So you made yourself, 5k in that hour? Can you, if you were an American gold seller, sell that 5k for 8 bucks? No. Because the Chinese are producing much more gold at a much cheaper rate. I don't think there are any established gold selling companies in the US outside of private sellers (Like you or me trying to sell our personal gold) for this very reason. The Chinese are able to undercut ANYONE else.
Why does this matter? Because of the large influx of gold in to the economy, especially duped gold which is another topic on it's own. Because there is a HUGE market for gold sellers (It's an ungodly 1.8 billion$ industry in 2007) http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/magazine/17lootfarmers-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 (This is a GREAT read)
When you put in a global auction house, they will set the low prices on all your materials you use for crafting. Which is a BAD thing in a player/crafter economy. If this specific game didn't revolve around player crafter gear being better, the auction house wouldn't be as devastating.
So now we are back to auction houses causing the market to decrease prices. You anti-auction house guys/gals really need to make up your mind about that.
But anyway: I do agree with you that an auction house would lower prices. But not because of the reasons you name. An auction house would lower prices with or without these Chinese sweat shops you keep mentioning.
Competition lowers prices. It's that simple. And an auction house would increase competition.
Now - as far as this Walmart analogy you keep mentioning I thought I explained that. But I'll try again. Because I'm not confused.
The reason local shops cannot compete is because they are having to play by a different set of rules. It wouldn't matter if Walmart produced overseas or not if both countries had the same in rules in place to compete by. So that is why this Walmart analogy does not relate to an auction house on ESO.
Auction houses do not give any single player a special set of rules with which to compete by. Trade agreements with countries like China do. And that is why corporations who take advantage of these agreements dominate the competition. So as I said, it's a very poor analogy.
Edited by Jeremy on June 7, 2014 12:42PM4 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I really wish people would quit asking for this. Auction houses are not good for a community. The system they've created is good for different circles of friends all banding together and working with one another. Could they add a few more Guilds? Maybe. Could they expand the #'s allowable to 1000 Probably. I really don't want to ever see them do what you guys are asking, as much as I don't want to see people hopping around on Pink Bunny mounts.
To be honest, if I had my way, the only way you could buy or sell is if you set up a stand in a Marketplace. I don't care if you pay a hireling to manage it for you, I'd much rather something like this than a guild store. Exchanges make things too easy to acquire. I would much rather friends/guilds band together to get what they need, and that is a big disagreement I have with a lot of MMO's. Please No.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »I really wish people would quit asking for this. Auction houses are not good for a community. .
Yes they are. Just the fact they would largely get rid of annoying trade spam in and of itself would be a huge improvement to the community.
And auction houses do not prevent a circle of friends from banding together to help one another. So you have no reason to oppose an auction house on that basis.Edited by Jeremy on June 7, 2014 12:30PM5 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Jeremy is 100% right.
I think the only real tweek the AH needs is a minimum bid line. If something is worth 10 gold, it should never be allowed to go below 10 gold on the AH.
NPC stores tend to buy items at half the value in MMOs. So you can sell your item to NPCs for 5 gold or put the item on the AH for a 2 gold place fee and hope to make 3 gold profit.
If there are 1,000 of that item on the AH already, it is a low demand item, or it is an item people buy in bulk, like materials for crafting.
It is up to you if you want to chance selling a common item on the AH or quickly sell it at a store.
This is how the economy gets moving in an MMO. People can see prices, make quick trades and get back to playing the game.
AHs and banks are not meant to be frustrating for most of the player base.Edited by Blackwidow on June 7, 2014 12:36PM3 -
I agree with some previous posts, there are the following main problems with guild stores:
- Limited supply, I am in large trading guilds, but they still sell mostly garbage and not the things I need
- No price comparison, so most items are overpriced, which is bad for the buyer (and the seller because no one buys it), or under priced, which is bad for the seller, because he could have earned more gold with his effort
- Bad search function, so it is time consuming to find items, the category filter does not work correctly and the level restriction is useless as many profession items have no level, and text search is still only possible with (very slow) addons
- No competition and low demand, which makes common items too expensive and rare items too cheap (no price scale by availability)Edited by TazerReloaded on June 7, 2014 1:25PM3 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TazerReloaded wrote: »I agree with some previous posts, there are the following main problems with guild stores:
- Limited supply, I am in large trading guilds, but they still sell mostly garbage and not the things I need
- No price comparison, so most items are overpriced, which is bad for the buyer (and the seller because no one buys it), or under priced, which is bad for the seller, because he could have earned more gold with his affords
- Bad search function, so it is time consuming to find items, the category filter does not work correctly and the level restriction is useless as many profession items have no level, and text search is still only possible with (very slow) addons
- No competition and low demand, which makes common items too expensive and rare items too cheap (no price scale by availability)
/nailed it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tMPoaU2oL4 Edited by Blackwidow on June 7, 2014 1:09PM0 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Whatever the solution, it must be detached from guilds, public accessible and adjust automatically.
Currently there's way too much work involved on the players' part, since keeping a healthy economy within trading guilds needs constant monitoring of buying and selling, pruning of inactive members and switching of guilds. That's an investment not many are going to make and the drop in population makes it even worse.
Trade is pretty much dead in most of my four trading guilds, probably thanks to the people in charge going MIA or not expecting/realizing the workload involved. This forces me pretty much to change guilds every now and so often, I'll end up as a guild hopper, eventually. And I dislike guild hopping.
The easiest solution remains the AH. I may not like that, but it's the lesser of two evils in the long run. Even more so, when you don't take a global, but localized approach to it. Or only allow buy orders. There's plenty of ways to implement it, actually.
But trade guilds are unresponsive, limited and detrimental to the economy and - most of all - devalue what guilds should be about in the first place."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"7 -
AinGeal✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »Whatever the solution, it must be detached from guilds, public accessible and adjust automatically.
Currently there's way too much work involved on the players' part, since keeping a healthy economy within trading guilds needs constant monitoring of buying and selling, pruning of inactive members and switching of guilds. That's an investment not many are going to make and the drop in population makes it even worse.
Trade is pretty much dead in most of my four trading guilds, probably thanks to the people in charge going MIA or not expecting/realizing the workload involved. This forces me pretty much to change guilds every now and so often, I'll end up as a guild hopper, eventually. And I dislike guild hopping.
The easiest solution remains the AH. I may not like that, but it's the lesser of two evils in the long run. Even more so, when you don't take a global, but localized approach to it. Or only allow buy orders. There's plenty of ways to implement it, actually.
But trade guilds are unresponsive, limited and detrimental to the economy and - most of all - devalue what guilds should be about in the first place.
Agreed. Guilds should be about Camaraderie and yet the introduction of "trading guilds" destroys that. Unlike a normal guild, the people in a trading guild are your competition.
To take what was said here a bit further, about "too much work involved", this is a cost. This falls within an economical cost. Producers are consumers too. So this extra cost placed on them will get reflected in the prices they set.1 -
Lynnessa✭✭✭✭alewis478b14_ESO wrote: »But people are just joining mega guilds for the sole purpose of having a place to buy/sell. I don't see how that is any better than having a traditional auction house.
It's better because the market won't be controlled by one or two players, and those of us who dont join "mega guilds" still do fine.3 -
AinGeal✭✭✭alewis478b14_ESO wrote: »But people are just joining mega guilds for the sole purpose of having a place to buy/sell. I don't see how that is any better than having a traditional auction house.
It's better because the market won't be controlled by one or two players, and those of us who dont join "mega guilds" still do fine.
Do you seriously think a competitive market can be controlled by one or two players? LOL.
It's easier for people to control pricing with these guild stores than with a trading house.
3 -
Allyah✭✭✭
You missed my point. Potential cause does not = certain cause. His statement was assumptive. The only thing that we can know for certain from people posting WTB/WTS in zone chat is that people are wanting to buy and sell stuff and using zone chat to do it. It could be because of the guild system but it could just as easily be a lot of people who don't want to be in a guild.
Then why aren't they using guild store? Why would they spend time on a chat if this guild store does satisfy their needs?
Is it maybe because they can do it better via chat?
You are correct. That could be another reason why some people don't use the guild stores. But read my above response to Razzak. It would still be assumptive to say that that is the only possible reason why people use zone instead of guild stores.
Edited for your pleasure.0 -
methjester✭✭✭I've been wanting an auction house this whole time and I've come to realize something. If players want something Zeni just isn't going to add it. If (when) this game goes down in flames, the total lack of a viable economy is going to be a part of it.2
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Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭methjester wrote: »I've been wanting an auction house this whole time and I've come to realize something. If players want something Zeni just isn't going to add it. If (when) this game goes down in flames, the total lack of a viable economy is going to be a part of it.
Sadly there is a huge list of things that is making people leave the game. It is near the top of the list for sure.
Lack of end game
No AH
Near empty PvP
Lack of feedback from devs
Bugs/crashes
Bleak dungeons
Unbalanced classes
High cost to respec
Lag
Memory leak problems
Bad grouping tools
Tiny banks
Bad guild banks options
Lack of an real open world
Can't reply in mail
Can't right click to send mail
Can't right click to invite to guild
No dueling
Vet levels are just a sad story that makes you repeat the quests of the other factions
No underwater swimming
No law system
No housing
Lack of user friendly GUI
No options for floating names
No way to preview gear on your character before actually equipping it.
Edited by Blackwidow on June 7, 2014 6:39PM3 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lotro has a global AH, and it works perfectly well. All the reasons touted against an AH are just hyperbole.
I'm now having loads of crap returned because it never sold.
I'm having to fly around zones to sell in chat.
I'm having to change trade guilds as numbers dwindle.
I can't find what I want, there isn't enough choice.
Trading should be quick and easy, not a tedious chore.
I don't have access to what you are selling because we are not in the same guild.
etc.etc. etc.
All of the above is happening.
I'll tell you what will happen if we get an AH is that we will all be able to buy and sell with ease.
And if we do get an AH the sky will not fall down on our heads.Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on June 7, 2014 6:22PMAt least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*3 -
AinGeal✭✭✭
You missed my point. Potential cause does not = certain cause. His statement was assumptive. The only thing that we can know for certain from people posting WTB/WTS in zone chat is that people are wanting to buy and sell stuff and using zone chat to do it. It could be because of the guild system but it could just as easily be a lot of people who don't want to be in a guild.
Then why aren't they using guild store? Why would they spend time on a chat if this guild store does satisfy their needs?
Is it maybe because they can do it better via chat?
1. It could be the guild system
2. It could be that the guild stores sell too slowly (they sell quicker by using zone chat)
3. It could be that they want to sell to a wider customer base (relates to reason 2)
4. It could be that they don't want to be in a quild.
5. It could be that they want to be loyal to one guild (camaraderie)
All point to the current system as being ineffective.
@Blackwidow
Here's another for the list.
No way to preview gear on your character before actually equipping it.
Edited by AinGeal on June 7, 2014 6:50PM1 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You missed my point. Potential cause does not = certain cause. His statement was assumptive. The only thing that we can know for certain from people posting WTB/WTS in zone chat is that people are wanting to buy and sell stuff and using zone chat to do it. It could be because of the guild system but it could just as easily be a lot of people who don't want to be in a guild.
Then why aren't they using guild store? Why would they spend time on a chat if this guild store does satisfy their needs?
Is it maybe because they can do it better via chat?
1. It could be the guild system
2. It could be that the guild stores sell too slowly (they sell quicker by using zone chat)
3. It could be that they want to sell to a wider customer base (relates to reason
4. It could be that they don't want to be in a quild.
5. It could be that they want to be loyal to one guild (camaraderie)
All point to the current system as being ineffective.
@Blackwidow
Here's another for the list.
No way to preview gear on your character before actually equipping it.
Noted
0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
1. The guild system doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
You missed my point. Potential cause does not = certain cause. His statement was assumptive. The only thing that we can know for certain from people posting WTB/WTS in zone chat is that people are wanting to buy and sell stuff and using zone chat to do it. It could be because of the guild system but it could just as easily be a lot of people who don't want to be in a guild.
Then why aren't they using guild store? Why would they spend time on a chat if this guild store does satisfy their needs?
Is it maybe because they can do it better via chat?
1. It could be the guild system
2. It could be that the guild stores sell too slowly (they sell quicker by using zone chat)
3. It could be that they want to sell to a wider customer base (relates to reason 2)
4. It could be that they don't want to be in a quild.
5. It could be that they want to be loyal to one guild (camaraderie)
All point to the current system as being ineffective.
2. This one could be true but it is certainly not the only factor in why people would be using zone chat to buy/sell.
3. Same as 2 and I'd say this is a pretty weak point in the guild system being ineffective. This seems more like people just using extra resources because they are available to them.
4. Not wanting to be in a guild doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
5. Only wanting to be in one guild doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
Only 2 and 3 could point to the guild system being ineffective (and what anyone considers ineffective is incredibly subjective). In my opinion, the system is effective if it works. People can buy/sell in their guilds if they choose or they can go into zone chat and buy/sell there. Or they can do both. Seems like it is working.0 -
AinGeal✭✭✭
1. The guild system doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
You missed my point. Potential cause does not = certain cause. His statement was assumptive. The only thing that we can know for certain from people posting WTB/WTS in zone chat is that people are wanting to buy and sell stuff and using zone chat to do it. It could be because of the guild system but it could just as easily be a lot of people who don't want to be in a guild.
Then why aren't they using guild store? Why would they spend time on a chat if this guild store does satisfy their needs?
Is it maybe because they can do it better via chat?
1. It could be the guild system
2. It could be that the guild stores sell too slowly (they sell quicker by using zone chat)
3. It could be that they want to sell to a wider customer base (relates to reason 2)
4. It could be that they don't want to be in a quild.
5. It could be that they want to be loyal to one guild (camaraderie)
All point to the current system as being ineffective.
2. This one could be true but it is certainly not the only factor in why people would be using zone chat to buy/sell.
3. Same as 2 and I'd say this is a pretty weak point in the guild system being ineffective. This seems more like people just using extra resources because they are available to them.
4. Not wanting to be in a guild doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
5. Only wanting to be in one guild doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
Only 2 and 3 could point to the guild system being ineffective (and what anyone considers ineffective is incredibly subjective). In my opinion, the system is effective if it works. People can buy/sell in their guilds if they choose or they can go into zone chat and buy/sell there. Or they can do both. Seems like it is working.
You do realize when I say 'guild system' I'm referring to the guild store system. So for 1 this would comprise of all the faults. So, poor and ineffective filters, no search field (by name or partial name), only two ways to sort the list, can only buy complete stacks, etc.
For two, they can sell quicker because they are reaching a larger customer base. They are also able to sell the quantity the customer needs. Can you imagine the following;
Person A - WTS stack of iron for 300g
Person B - I'll buy 50
Person A - Sorry you have to buy the who stack or no deal
I can tell you how the conversation would go next.
Person B - WTF? No deal
*Buys from the other person who will sell half the stack*
3 being true is a reason for 2 to be true.
Guild stores only work for you if you are in a guild. Not being in a guild = not having access to a guild store = the guild store being ineffective to YOU.
By being in just one guild, you are not in 4 more. You only have access to one guild store and it will only deal with 499 other people.
With a trading house system;
1 depends on the programs to actually let it have proper filters and search function.
WRT 2 and 3, a trading house will present what you are selling to everyone (so wider than zone) and you will be able to sell as per the quantity needed by the customers. This all adds up to a quicker sell.
With 4 you don't have to be in a guild to benefit off of a trading house
With 5, guilds can be about camaraderie as they should be. So whether or not they choose to be in one or five, it has no bearing on market access.0 -
Jeddahwe✭✭✭My biggest need right now is crafting material, no matter how many alts I have and the fact that I gather as much as I can until I start hating the game -then I stop gathering because I rather quest- I never have enough mats
No AH = Lower crafting mat requirements by 90%
Lack of AH is making me look at WoW again...1 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Yes, I realize you meant guild system but that doesn't mean your response was any less logical. (Mainly due to lack of explanation on what you meant and partly due to the fact that some of your answers don't really apply to why the guild system is ineffective. Explanation below.)
1. The guild system doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
You missed my point. Potential cause does not = certain cause. His statement was assumptive. The only thing that we can know for certain from people posting WTB/WTS in zone chat is that people are wanting to buy and sell stuff and using zone chat to do it. It could be because of the guild system but it could just as easily be a lot of people who don't want to be in a guild.
Then why aren't they using guild store? Why would they spend time on a chat if this guild store does satisfy their needs?
Is it maybe because they can do it better via chat?
1. It could be the guild system
2. It could be that the guild stores sell too slowly (they sell quicker by using zone chat)
3. It could be that they want to sell to a wider customer base (relates to reason 2)
4. It could be that they don't want to be in a quild.
5. It could be that they want to be loyal to one guild (camaraderie)
All point to the current system as being ineffective.
2. This one could be true but it is certainly not the only factor in why people would be using zone chat to buy/sell.
3. Same as 2 and I'd say this is a pretty weak point in the guild system being ineffective. This seems more like people just using extra resources because they are available to them.
4. Not wanting to be in a guild doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
5. Only wanting to be in one guild doesn't point to the guild system being ineffective.
Only 2 and 3 could point to the guild system being ineffective (and what anyone considers ineffective is incredibly subjective). In my opinion, the system is effective if it works. People can buy/sell in their guilds if they choose or they can go into zone chat and buy/sell there. Or they can do both. Seems like it is working.
You do realize when I say 'guild system' I'm referring to the guild store system. So for 1 this would comprise of all the faults. So, poor and ineffective filters, no search field (by name or partial name), only two ways to sort the list, can only buy complete stacks, etc.
For two, they can sell quicker because they are reaching a larger customer base. They are also able to sell the quantity the customer needs. Can you imagine the following;
Person A - WTS stack of iron for 300g
Person B - I'll buy 50
Person A - Sorry you have to buy the who stack or no deal
I can tell you how the conversation would go next.
Person B - WTF? No deal
*Buys from the other person who will sell half the stack*
3 being true is a reason for 2 to be true.
Guild stores only work for you if you are in a guild. Not being in a guild = not having access to a guild store = the guild store being ineffective to YOU.
By being in just one guild, you are not in 4 more. You only have access to one guild store and it will only deal with 499 other people.
With a trading house system;
1 depends on the programs to actually let it have proper filters and search function.
WRT 2 and 3, a trading house will present what you are selling to everyone (so wider than zone) and you will be able to sell as per the quantity needed by the customers. This all adds up to a quicker sell.
With 4 you don't have to be in a guild to benefit off of a trading house
With 5, guilds can be about camaraderie as they should be. So whether or not they choose to be in one or five, it has no bearing on market access.
My problem with 1 was that you said the guild system pointed to the current guild system being ineffective. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense but now that you've given a few examples about why you think it's ineffective I can see why you might say so. I disagree with you about it being ineffective (I'd say inconvenient at most) but as I've already said, what anyone considers ineffective will inevitably vary so no point in arguing about that.
As I've already said, I agree #2 is a reason why people use zone chat to buy/sell but certainly not the only reason. I don't really understand what you are trying to point out with the example about talking with someone to sell stuff and there being a disagreement about the amount you sell. I don't really see how that matters for our discussion but if you'd like to clarify...
I'm just going to copy and paste what I said about 3 'cause it still seems to apply: I'd say this is a pretty weak point in the guild system being ineffective. This seems more like people just using extra resources because they are available to them.
With 4, your post said not wanting to be in a guild pointed to the guild system being ineffective which is much different than what your last post says. With this latest point, we just look at things differently. Your opinion is that being without a guild is disadvantageous to people and mine is that being in a guild is advantageous. (If that sounded confusing, think of it as the glass half full/half empty situation).
Again, number 5 in your earlier post said someone wanting to be loyal to one guild pointed to the guild system being ineffective. I'll disagree with you here. This is a choice someone makes and does have an affect on market access. They choose to be in only one guild and, therefore, they don't get the benefits of more guilds.
I'll wrap up with saying the system isn't really ineffective. Could it be improved? Yes. But some of your points seem to point at the lack of advantage being due to player choice and not because the system in place doesn't work.0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭An auction house on a mega server would be terrible. Just go look at GW2. They tried it and there is ZERO economy in that game because everything is worth pennies. There is ZERO incentive to craft or earn gear because you can buy every single piece of gear in the game for pennies.
I am in 3 very active trading guilds. Right I have roughly 1400 people to buy and sell with. It's actually working pretty well as long as you have a good addon. It's unfortunate that we must use an addon for basic fundamental features, but I use "guild store search". It scans every one of your guild stores and then lets you search for items specifically by name. Makes it very easy to compare prices and find what you are looking for.
Please do not go to a mega server auction house. The crafting and trait system in this game makes me feel unique and valuable as a crafter. A mega auction house with a million users would ruin that.
A trade channel is a MUST HAVE though. And just like the guild store search feature, it boggles the mind how such simple yet IMPORTANT features were left out.1 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »I really wish people would quit asking for this. Auction houses are not good for a community. The system they've created is good for different circles of friends all banding together and working with one another. Could they add a few more Guilds? Maybe. Could they expand the #'s allowable to 1000 Probably. I really don't want to ever see them do what you guys are asking, as much as I don't want to see people hopping around on Pink Bunny mounts.
To be honest, if I had my way, the only way you could buy or sell is if you set up a stand in a Marketplace. I don't care if you pay a hireling to manage it for you, I'd much rather something like this than a guild store. Exchanges make things too easy to acquire. I would much rather friends/guilds band together to get what they need, and that is a big disagreement I have with a lot of MMO's. Please No.
I'm not sure I'm down with the cosy view of the group of friends banding together to trade is accurate.
In the 3 trading guilds I am in there is hardly any interaction. In fact they are no different from an AH except for the devastatingly poor UI and the customer pool of now around 100 regular players per guild at best.
I am pretty sure that if there was an AH I might actually have a chance of selling high end crafted armour,rather than now when I never sell any. Also for my enchanting I would actually have a chance to buy the runes I want to actually make enough glyphs for my friends, rather than the limited supply I have now.
Allthe arguments against an AH do not hold up whatsoever and the current system seriously gimps trading. Its messy, its amateur and its definitely not friends around the campfire in some sort of jolly cooperative.
There are infinite reasons why open markets are more fruitful than closed markets.Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on June 8, 2014 9:15AMAt least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can't help but wonder how many people truly understand what they are asking for. This isn't wow or your average MMO where the auction houses can be isolated to individual servers. This is one single gigantic server broken down into phases.
A million people all using the same auction house is terrible. Everything would be worthless to the average joe. Wanna know who would love to see it though? Gold farmers. They could then sell all of their hacked goods in gigantic bulks and make a ton of gold. Gold that you no longer have by the way because that yellow temper you have that used to sell for 2k now sells for 2 gold.
But no worries, because you can get all the gold you want from the gold sellers that are exploiting a million player auction house like Donald trump because they are the only ones able to sell a thousand stacks of jute per day.0 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭
Ready to start counting?Alphashado wrote: »I can't help but wonder how many people truly understand what they are asking for.
Of course you can. Have regional AHs and limit the items and total participants to break it up.Alphashado wrote: »This isn't wow or your average MMO where the auction houses can be isolated to individual servers. This is one single gigantic server broken down into phases.Alphashado wrote: »A million people all using the same auction house is terrible. Everything would be worthless to the average joe. Wanna know who would love to see it though? Gold farmers. They could then sell all of their hacked goods in gigantic bulks and make a ton of gold. Gold that you no longer have by the way because that yellow temper you have that used to sell for 2k now sells for 2 gold.
How will they make tons of gold, if their farmed mats sell for 2 gold? By your definiton, this would actually hurt gold farmers. Not to forget that a million people not only up the supply, but raise the demand as well. So that's not going to happen, at least not for raw mats nor tempers.
Everyone can participate in an AH. Especially in a matured economy that already shows mudflation, it's a whole lot easier for new players to gain gold that way, as an AH will automatically adjust prices, while quest rewards and mob drops have to be manually altered by the developers.Alphashado wrote: »But no worries, because you can get all the gold you want from the gold sellers that are exploiting a million player auction house like Donald trump because they are the only ones able to sell a thousand stacks of jute per day.
"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »
Ready to start counting?Alphashado wrote: »I can't help but wonder how many people truly understand what they are asking for.
Of course you can. Have regional AHs and limit the items and total participants to break it up.Alphashado wrote: »This isn't wow or your average MMO where the auction houses can be isolated to individual servers. This is one single gigantic server broken down into phases.Alphashado wrote: »A million people all using the same auction house is terrible. Everything would be worthless to the average joe. Wanna know who would love to see it though? Gold farmers. They could then sell all of their hacked goods in gigantic bulks and make a ton of gold. Gold that you no longer have by the way because that yellow temper you have that used to sell for 2k now sells for 2 gold.
How will they make tons of gold, if their farmed mats sell for 2 gold? By your definiton, this would actually hurt gold farmers. Not to forget that a million people not only up the supply, but raise the demand as well. So that's not going to happen, at least not for raw mats nor tempers.
Everyone can participate in an AH. Especially in a matured economy that already shows mudflation, it's a whole lot easier for new players to gain gold that way, as an AH will automatically adjust prices, while quest rewards and mob drops have to be manually altered by the developers.Alphashado wrote: »But no worries, because you can get all the gold you want from the gold sellers that are exploiting a million player auction house like Donald trump because they are the only ones able to sell a thousand stacks of jute per day.
Pop on over to GW2 and ask them how they like it. The reason the gold farmers gain where players do not is because they have the resources to farm in massive bulks. You do not.
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