The difficulty level of some VR mobs just doesn't make much sense.

Vuron · June 2014

Cendyen wrote: »

I feel exactly the same way. My Templar is VR6 and got stuffed as soon as the Craglorn patch came out. Dead in it's tracks, as mobs do wayyyy too much damage. Softcapped Armor. Sure my health is a little on the low side, but still, Up until this point, it was always enough I'm still kicking about 1600ish, since my skills are so magicka heavy, and my stam gets eaten away with blocking/rolling.

There was an actual change that caused this. Mobs, technically, aren't doing more damage but your armor is mitigating less.

Armor mitigation is based on a linear scale that goes down from the hard cap. Before the patch that caused these issues, the armor hard cap didn't change from VR1-VR10. Now, the hard cap raises with each level, so you need more armor at higher VR levels than you had previously to mitigate the same % of damage.

Chalk it up as another stealth nerf.

LariahHunding · June 2014

Vuron wrote: »

Cendyen wrote: »

I feel exactly the same way. My Templar is VR6 and got stuffed as soon as the Craglorn patch came out. Dead in it's tracks, as mobs do wayyyy too much damage. Softcapped Armor. Sure my health is a little on the low side, but still, Up until this point, it was always enough I'm still kicking about 1600ish, since my skills are so magicka heavy, and my stam gets eaten away with blocking/rolling.

There was an actual change that caused this. Mobs, technically, aren't doing more damage but your armor is mitigating less.

Armor mitigation is based on a linear scale that goes down from the hard cap. Before the patch that caused these issues, the armor hard cap didn't change from VR1-VR10. Now, the hard cap raises with each level, so you need more armor at higher VR levels than you had previously to mitigate the same % of damage.

Chalk it up as another stealth nerf.

Some one gave me a 1000 fire resistance ring. I can't tell if the damn thing is doing anything at all.

Didn't know about the armor thing, but in the last few days, seems like I'm not even wearing any.

Nikkae · June 2014

I honestly haven't really had much desire to play with my V2 simply because of the excessive difficulty of trying to complete the quests. Agreed that the quest rewards are not what they should be and until this gets resolved I don't see why I should waste my time pulling my hair out. I have tried grouping with several new people and added them as friends but most of them hardly get on anymore. It is very frustrating also when trying to complete a quest and the one friend you did make last week is no longer on the quest you are currently doing so they cannot help you.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · June 2014

I agree with the people above.

I was of the idea that my char was weak, but is not.

The issue that we need to deal with damage mitigation nerf (while in VR area), that is impossible to achieve if we do not craft purple-gold gear and put full set HA, in addition to that the quests give 75-300g and green items, make very stupid the whole ordeal.

No wonder why in Cyrodiil my Templar Tank (VR3), rolls VR10 characters without much hassle, or wins fights against multiple opponets barely taking damage, while loses fast,if there are more than 2 crocodiles or Dremora trash mobs in Shadowfen.

Also I found that without food, somehow your HP pool is half what should be.

I have 2300 hp without food. ~2600 with food.

However 2600 does feel a lot more than 2300. Even if it is actually 1 hit by the trash mobs. (300hp).
With all those hidden modifications, god knows how many bugs on the mechanics are there that we cannot report.

And the MOST annoying thing, is that I need to get to Coldharbour every few days to harvest food ingredients.

VR zones do not scale well on that department
eg. in VR3 zone, it drops food for level 25! Not VR1/Level 50.
VR1 zone drops food ingredients for level 5-10, for heaven sake.

So I wonder all those recipies I have for VR5 food/drinks, will ever be made.
(which I found while level 40!!!!!)

Imho, the Veteran content does show that is a rushed job, added just before release, and the whole game supposed to end at Coldharbour at level 50, with the VET areas being level 50 without much further progression on the character. As it should be imho.

Hiply · June 2014

Walked into VR1, all fresh and excited to be starting that phase of the game. Tagged a pair of beetles on the outskirts of town, didn't even get one to 1/2 health before my templar was dismembered, logged him out. Haven't logged him back in since.

Ludicrous. I just solo'd a god, [snip]

Guess I'll find an anomaly group tonight. Thanks, Zen.
[edited for profanity bypass]

silent88b14_ESO · June 2014

There isn't much we can do about it. The soul shriven servants of the Master of Pain seem to have the ear of the developers, just as they had during development and initial tuning. They are warning that everyone that matters will migrate unless Craglorn provides even more "challenge".

If you aren't a virtual masochist who adores Molag Bal, go to the Public Test Server, run a high level in Craglorn with a group, and post your impressions in the PTS subforum. It is, as far as I can tell, the only way your preferences will register. If that doesn't work... well, what can I say?

Even then the bot boys are going to do their best to ensure their PoV is the one the developer believes.

Yankee · June 2014

Shiroro wrote: »

VR zones are completely empty outside of Craglorn...how do you expect to find someone to group with? You could beg for help in Craglorn but that's pretty obnoxious.

The VR7 zone I am in has little Zone chat and I rarely see anyone else. See few players in towns. It is getting harder every level to complete the group world bosses/dolmans because the population seems sparse.

I do not know if it is related to VR difficulty or maybe everyone went to Craglorn to grind.

Sihnfahl · June 2014

Yankee wrote: »

Or maybe I am just imagining things.

No, you're not. Heck, I went farming in the Rift last night for metal, wood and alchemy ingredients.

I saw maybe two other people...

LariahHunding · June 2014

Yankee wrote: »

Shiroro wrote: »

VR zones are completely empty outside of Craglorn...how do you expect to find someone to group with? You could beg for help in Craglorn but that's pretty obnoxious.

The VR7 zone I am in has little Zone chat and I rarely see anyone else. See few players in towns. It is getting harder every level to complete the group world bosses/dolmans because the population seems sparse.

Or maybe I am just imagining things.

Even after a yell, I wait at a dolman in VR Malabor Tor 30 minutes yesterday morning, no one showed up.

Starting to miss the bots' help.

Yankee · June 2014

It makes a normal VR leveling/questing method harder if one cannot do the world bosses/dolmans. They contribute a fair amount ot VP. At this rate I will be level VR8 in the VR10 zones unless I do something besides normal questing.

But the question I have is, why are the zones so empty? Have people quit because VR is too difficult versus fun? Did they hit VR1 and just group to grind Craglorn?

I thought they might nerf the normal mobs in VR some just to get more casual people into VR.

Seems kind of a big deal either way.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · June 2014

I've noticed this in Shadowfens over the last few days. I see little or no chat in the window. The place is almost empty at VR levels. The trash mobs are way over powered and there's nobody to help fight them. I'm really thinking about going to Craglorn, find a group and grind with them. Leaving the VR questline unfinished. I'm a 3VR DK that uses bow (95% of the time) and 1-hand shield rarely. Not by choice, but bow is the only way to survive at the moment. I've started Destruco staff, and am thinking of completely respecing to do destructo/res staff build. It seems the only vivable way to advance. <THIS IS THE PROBLEM IN ESO. I'm guessing the devs will have the balance issues figured out in about 6 mos to a year, but how many will still be playing then?

draxredd · June 2014

The true problem of veteran mode isn't recycled content or even ill balanced difficulty.
The true problem is its soul shriveling lack of fun. It feels like wire walking, on barbed wire in a tornado. Any misstep is punishing, tension builds and there is no rewarding way to blow it of.

Nidwin · June 2014

May be devs could check if there isn't something buggy with the VR instancing if peeps are nearly alone in those zones.

leandro.800ub17_ESO · June 2014

Craglorn should be only VR10 and up to avoid lower VRs to go there.
Also up until now what is the point in completing other factions. No rewards worst leveling exp then Craglorn no one around to group with etc

We should be granted more bonus and rewards then the power level guys. Didn't ESO say it was an exploring game. Well until now no fun in exploring other faction VR zones

kevjon74_ESO · June 2014

nfadel1_ESO wrote: »

I honestly haven't really had much desire to play with my V2 simply because of the excessive difficulty of trying to complete the quests. Agreed that the quest rewards are not what they should be and until this gets resolved I don't see why I should waste my time pulling my hair out. I have tried grouping with several new people and added them as friends but most of them hardly get on anymore. It is very frustrating also when trying to complete a quest and the one friend you did make last week is no longer on the quest you are currently doing so they cannot help you.

Exactly this. I stopped playing a few days ago even though I still have time left on my subscription. I keep checking the forums to see if anything is going to be done to tweak the difficulty of VR mobs, since as it stands it just isn't fun to play anymore. Not going to bother leveling a play style I don't want to play, as all play styles were supposed to be valid.

born2beagator · June 2014

Wow, surprised the l2p jerks haven't derailed this thread. A certain loser who I will not name sure made a butt of himself on the "pve is boring thread"

I agree with everything said

spinedoc · June 2014

Humanophage wrote: »

Bler wrote: »

I think that the level of mobs should be determined by what kind of mob they are; not by which zone they inhabit.

I thoroughly agree with the sentiment, but it's too late to fix.

Why can't a dangerous level 50 monster inhabit the starting location? Why must all monsters in a location fit within a certain level range? Many games eschewed such rigidity, and it worked well for them. For example, in Gothic I-II you simply had to flee from tough monsters at low levels. In Ultima Online, an ogre would be about equally strong in any part of the world.

The way it stands, there is no feeling of progression except by comparing yourself to other players. Well, at least there is no level scaling.

I would LOVE to see something like this. Part of the massive appeal of early MMO's was the terror you would have just traversing the world, being in fear of something killing or chasing you. Think the original Everquest at release and trying to get thru Kithicor forest at night. I miss this feeling and TESO has managed to be like all other theme park MMO's where everything is placed perfectly into little content categories that you are forced to jump from one to the next one. It encourages more grinding and attention to the xp bar and MUCH less to exploration. Of course not many have any use for exploration anymore these days, the main goal being to get to end game asap, damn the exploration.

huntgod_ESO · June 2014

I had no real issues until I hit VR6 - now 3 packs are a struggle, I can kill them, but I have to be prepared. VR5 and lower if I stumbled into a 3 pack I could finish them off without a big problem, not...not so much. Glad it isn't just me.

I really need to redo my stat pts though and shift a few things around.

eobethb14_ESO · June 2014

kevjon74_ESO wrote: »

nfadel1_ESO wrote: »

I honestly haven't really had much desire to play with my V2 simply because of the excessive difficulty of trying to complete the quests. Agreed that the quest rewards are not what they should be and until this gets resolved I don't see why I should waste my time pulling my hair out. I have tried grouping with several new people and added them as friends but most of them hardly get on anymore. It is very frustrating also when trying to complete a quest and the one friend you did make last week is no longer on the quest you are currently doing so they cannot help you.

Exactly this. I stopped playing a few days ago even though I still have time left on my subscription. I keep checking the forums to see if anything is going to be done to tweak the difficulty of VR mobs, since as it stands it just isn't fun to play anymore. Not going to bother leveling a play style I don't want to play, as all play styles were supposed to be valid.

This is the same experience for me and my BF. I had connection issues after the Craglorn patch and he is experiencing the "VR content is stupid hard".

We found ourselves logging in less and less. Even though supposedly my connection issues are fixed. The game issues are not.

We do not mind an occasional difficult pull, or a quest mob that needs a little strategy, but when almost any pull is death. When mobs come in packs that seem to be able to non-stop special attack you from all angles, it just stops being fun.

Yes, the characters feel like they get weaker every level, what exacly are we fighting for in VR content, just to get through it all? VR contents just makes no sense.

If Craglorn had been opened as an alternative leveling area to VR...maybe that could have saved it, but for us....it is sadly game over.

Asava · June 2014

In hindsight, they really should of made Craglorn a VR10+ only zone. It only took me about 10 hrs to go from VR10 to 12 killing Anomalies and Bala speed runs.

PBpsy · June 2014

eobethb14_ESO wrote: »

kevjon74_ESO wrote: »

nfadel1_ESO wrote: »

I honestly haven't really had much desire to play with my V2 simply because of the excessive difficulty of trying to complete the quests. Agreed that the quest rewards are not what they should be and until this gets resolved I don't see why I should waste my time pulling my hair out. I have tried grouping with several new people and added them as friends but most of them hardly get on anymore. It is very frustrating also when trying to complete a quest and the one friend you did make last week is no longer on the quest you are currently doing so they cannot help you.

Exactly this. I stopped playing a few days ago even though I still have time left on my subscription. I keep checking the forums to see if anything is going to be done to tweak the difficulty of VR mobs, since as it stands it just isn't fun to play anymore. Not going to bother leveling a play style I don't want to play, as all play styles were supposed to be valid.

This is the same experience for me and my BF. I had connection issues after the Craglorn patch and he is experiencing the "VR content is stupid hard".

We found ourselves logging in less and less. Even though supposedly my connection issues are fixed. The game issues are not.

We do not mind an occasional difficult pull, or a quest mob that needs a little strategy, but when almost any pull is death. When mobs come in packs that seem to be able to non-stop special attack you from all angles, it just stops being fun.

Yes, the characters feel like they get weaker every level, what exacly are we fighting for in VR content, just to get through it all? VR contents just makes no sense.

If Craglorn had been opened as an alternative leveling area to VR...maybe that could have saved it, but for us....it is sadly game over.

But Craglorn is an alternative leveling area for VR. It is pretty fast but boring. You can start at VR1.

ProfDrLOL · June 2014

I have a sorceress at V4 and a dragonknight at V3, and these are the stages where the fun stops. Why level up all the way when your char just gets weaker and weaker, getting killed by random mobs. Even mudcrabs and skeeters become a threat. They deal a ridiculous amount of damage while my dps output stays pretty much the same, blocking helps less and less, every other NPC has more health and deals more damage than I do. I can go through groups of three with my dragonknight by stunning 2 and hacking the third, but it's repetitve, boring and takes forever. "Funny" are the healers, they heal faster than "Soul Strike" can deal damage... The quest bosses on the other hand are no problem.

In addition to the bad leveling experience there are serious bugs: the buttons often don't trigger the skills or it takes so long that I hit weaponswitch twice. These things weren't big problems while 1 - 50, but at vet level it's often deadly.

The vet dungeons are also way too hard, I haven't been able to complete a single one after finishing all group dungeons 1 - 50. I know there are hardcore players who complain that the vet dungeons are not a real challenge and should be even harder, but for the casual player without a scientific approach they are just frustrating.

To sum it up: the veteran difficulty is very frustrating and does not reward one becoming more powerful, quite the contrary. This is a game for hardcore players and I doubt it will have great success in the long run. Most of my "friends" quit after reaching veteran and my Patience is coming to an end too.

Shiroro · June 2014

VR content is a terrible experience unless you have a group. The catch 22 is that you can't form a group because nobody is playing the content because it's not fun. They still have time to fix the game before F2P becomes inevitable but if things aren't fixed by the July update that they promised wave goodbye to ESO.

wllstrt75b14_ESO · June 2014

It's easy if you use restroom destro. But it can be challenging and very difficult for those that are not out to make the best builds or understand how. I have a feeling that they may have turned down difficulty as they said but somehow I feel that they borked the affect armor and spell resistance has on inc damage. Perhaps they gave the npcs irresistible damage instead or just turned off player resistances in pve. First one more likely as pvp resist n armor seem fine.

Cody · June 2014

You warriors and sorcerers having trouble?? try it as a pure Nightblade archer, and only group for public dungeons, world bosses, and anchors. its VERY hard. I remember fighting Baron montclairs daughter, in rivenspire, it was horrible. I only managed to beat her because the game bugged, and she just stood there, and did nothing(after I died 2 times). Baron Montclair was a nightmare. The werewolves in camlorn were an absolute nightmare, I honestly did not think I would be able to beat falochue, what did I do for groups? snuck by them mostly. If I had to fight them, I got the first stealth shot, and spamed magma shot when they got close, and use killers blade like crazy when their health got low. Mages(particulary shamans) were(are) almost impossible. in fact, mages in general, for me, are VERY difficult. Being killed by a bunch of rats and crabs is also not very inspiring. And the fact that a common foot soldier, can be as powerfull as full on mobs(Apparently, the mobs are nightmarish spawns of Oblivion sent here by sheogorath just for the sole purpose of annoying players) ) is..... not right. The zones were not ghost towns like yall claim, but the population of players was ALOT lower, than "normal" zones.

Cody · June 2014

But I am a little disappointed that every vet zone, the enemies are "V1, V2, etc". That's boring. I don't feel like im getting more powerfull, In fact, I actually feel like im getting WEAKER. im not saying vet zones should not be hard in fact, im glad they are hard. but the damage these enemies deal.... I expect all the major bosses to kick my a**, but I don't expect a wolf, or a foot soldier, to be as much of a threat, as a huge undead bone colosses, or a Powerful master wizard. It makes no sense for some random bandits to be as much of a threat as mannimarco himself( ok that is exaggerating it but yall know what I mean) point is, I don't feel like im getting more powerful. I don't feel like the guy(or gal) that just took on a god, and kicked his a**. I feel like someone, that just started adventuring for the very first time. the sense of progression is gone once you hit the Vet zones. I enjoy them, but they could be WAY better than they are right now.

Irgin · June 2014

Crescent wrote: »

VR9 Malabal Tor mobs autoattacks for 310 damage, blocked uppercut still deals about 470 damage.

Average VR10 person's HP is at 2k. 300/2k health= 15% HP lost per autoattack every 2 seconds. 3 mobs = 45% hp lost to autoattacks every 2 seconds.

These values are for softcapped armor and spell resistance btw.

Dont worry, it feels like there is no difference if you wear cloth or plate, you are dead within the same amount of swings.....

hamon · June 2014

born2beagator wrote: »

Wow, surprised the l2p jerks haven't derailed this thread. A certain loser who I will not name sure made a butt of himself on the "pve is boring thread"

I agree with everything said

i highlighted this issue about a month ago now with vet content and got plenty L2P feedback... but now i think the weight of evidence is overwhelming and the L2P crowd (even with their limited capacity for understanding) have been forced to accept how bad things are.

born2beagator · June 2014

I have completely retired my VR 1 DW/Bow nightblade to a crafting hub. I'm now playing through the other alliances on 1-50 and enjoying it very much. 1-50 is a gem for me, I love it.

However, if by the time I have played through these 2 factions Zenimax is still fixated on catering to the "elite players" and keeping VR zones only for those with an uber build, I WILL leave

Sakiri · June 2014

Bler wrote: »

Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. While I understand that VR zones are supposed to be a challenge, and I wholeheartedly welcome that fact, the zones need to be made challenging in a well thought-out and logical manner. Buffing every mob in VR zones just to make them more challenging isn't well thought-out or logical; it's just kind of lazy.

My Pathfinder DM said it best:

"I'm having a hell of a hard time here balancing it for this party. You're Mythic characters, and if I use the default template, you steamroll it, and if I add an advanced template, it steamrolls you."

The advanced template jacks up it's HP, defenses and attack, and our party is mostly niche characters. The cleric is a healbot/diplomacy/knowledge junky, The paladin can't do damage, only take it. The monk is a grapple monster, that's it, and our paladin/gunslinger deals damage, but can't take it.

Standard mobs, we steamroll.

Add that advanced template and the cleric's getting one shot by spells, the monk can't grapple it(that's entirely what he built around.. hes useless in combat if the monster cannot be grappled), the pistol wench can't do a lot of damage unless it can be holy smited(evil, evil dragon or outsider) and our paladin can't kill *anything* by himself.

Seems that ZOS is having the same issue with VR content.

Having to resurrect one of the party members after every single boss fight is no fun. Just like having to corpse rush quest bosses is no fun.