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Nerf Volcanic Rune - Enough Already ( ZOS tested this and found it to be working as intended)
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kitchenguy65_ESO✭✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »kitchenguy65_ESO wrote: »Why don't you just replace,ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »
Simple question:
Should a LA with mad regen be able to have 100% upkeep on volcanic rune while still applying dps on 3 v6 mobs without being hit once.
Then move to the next pack
While other classes like mine have to bust it to kill all three - use multiple abilities and take longer
with, "my skill/build sucks, nerf everyone else"
BTW, you have no idea what exploit means.
This is an exploit
Utilising a design flaw or a combination of design features when taken together achieve a result unintended by the design team.
That is an exploit champion
My build doesn't suck it's not bad - plate with now and shield using both push a good 300-400 without really being pushed
Still it's nothing on the volcanic rune build - spam one button over and over and win constantly versus 3 mobs .
Owned
Nice try, but you apparently have no idea what owned means either. Try looking up the definition of words before actually using them.
In a game with only 10+2 abilities available at a time during combat and is all about resource management, combined with the DEVELOPER PHILOSOPHY of NO COOLDOWNS, abilities will be spammed.
IF they did change volcanic rune, you'd be here complaining something else is spammable and needs nerfing. Should we nerf bound armor? Why should a sorc have 100% upkeep on a toggalable skill? OP I say! How bout Rapid regen/mutagen or combat prayer? Why should a resto staff user be allowed to spam heals if my heavy armor DK can't? OP! Nerf heals! The poor NPC monsters can't hit me because I'm kiting them around with spammable CC, NERF CC!!!!
Your argument is ridiculous, If they nerf Volcanic Rune into the ground, people will just use other AOE CCs (if they have one, poor templars). The entire point of PvE is to deal damage while taking as little as possible yourself, YOU do this by plating up with heavy armor and mitigations(at least thats what it sounds like) while other, cloth wearing people, need to be able to kite. Nerfing this will effectively destroy most templars ability to solo vet content while wearing LA.
If it's such a huge deal to you why not offer suggestions to fix it that DON'T involve direct nerfs? Nerfs KILL games and people are always quick to leave games due to things they like being nerfed. People are less likely to complain/leave when balancing, tweaking and buffs are happening. I can not believe no one suggested giving monsters a short immunity to volcanic rune if used in rapid succession. Much better than a nerf or cooldown on the skill IMO, but I guess that would require too much thinking.
And for the record, I think it's fine as is.4 -
ShADoW0s✭✭✭ESO players really dont know the meaning of exploiting. Almost all abilities have 0 cool down, therefore they all can be spammed, just one draw back for having 0 CD. You are not exploiting if its part of the game mechanic, do you really think they would not have slightly tested this?
The spell, even tho it does not have a CD, it does tho have an internal CD (the animation, but it can be canceled) its take a while to throw, the projectile is slow, and the exposition is not instant.1 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrimCyclone wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
Although I could not care less about the subject in this thread, this comment made me laugh. Why would care either way? There is no way you would spam this skill in PVE unless you really were brain dead. So the 'nerf' that was requested would not even be noticeable to PVE players.
You my friend get a LOL!
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
I hate to break it to you, but giving him an LOL only gives his user rank points. LOL isn't a bad thing. Just because you guys want to think it is. So keep on LOLing. I like points.
Sigh for the last time LOL doesn't affect anything user status wiseTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.2 -
RylukShouja✭✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »captain_awesome wrote: »It's not being exploited, that's very a poor choice of words from the OP.
It's not an exploit. Volcanic Rune is a huge force multiplier though and should be nerfed for that one simple reason.
Being able to suspend 6 mobs in mid air indefinitely is very poor design. I've seen this skill used in Cyrodil and while its funny, I can imagine it's frustrating not being able to do anything about it if it's being used on you.
Either remove the KB component or put in a CC cooldown or a 30 second global CC immunity for each CC.
Exploit is if it is not intended - I am talking about PvE not PvP . PvP issue has been addressed already in the new pts patch notes.
Now when those 6 mobs can be suspended and dps down almost automation - easy for bots then it is time to nerf it - simple as that.
There have been 3 ways others have suggested
Cool down - 5 to 10
Increase cost
Reduce the amount of mobs it controls
I don't want it removed just balanced so that our stick and dress people cannot just roflstomp their way through content meant to be difficult
Go carry a stick and put on a dress and see how effective juggling mobs with runes is.
Then come back and apologize.4 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭GrimCyclone wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
Although I could not care less about the subject in this thread, this comment made me laugh. Why would care either way? There is no way you would spam this skill in PVE unless you really were brain dead. So the 'nerf' that was requested would not even be noticeable to PVE players.
You my friend get a LOL!
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
I hate to break it to you, but giving him an LOL only gives his user rank points. LOL isn't a bad thing. Just because you guys want to think it is. So keep on LOLing. I like points.
Sigh for the last time LOL doesn't affect anything user status wise
Badge:
100 LOLs
You received 100 LOLs. When you're liked this much, you'll be an MVP in no time!
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Stratti✭✭✭✭✭RylukShouja wrote: »ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »captain_awesome wrote: »It's not being exploited, that's very a poor choice of words from the OP.
It's not an exploit. Volcanic Rune is a huge force multiplier though and should be nerfed for that one simple reason.
Being able to suspend 6 mobs in mid air indefinitely is very poor design. I've seen this skill used in Cyrodil and while its funny, I can imagine it's frustrating not being able to do anything about it if it's being used on you.
Either remove the KB component or put in a CC cooldown or a 30 second global CC immunity for each CC.
Exploit is if it is not intended - I am talking about PvE not PvP . PvP issue has been addressed already in the new pts patch notes.
Now when those 6 mobs can be suspended and dps down almost automation - easy for bots then it is time to nerf it - simple as that.
There have been 3 ways others have suggested
Cool down - 5 to 10
Increase cost
Reduce the amount of mobs it controls
I don't want it removed just balanced so that our stick and dress people cannot just roflstomp their way through content meant to be difficult
Go carry a stick and put on a dress and see how effective juggling mobs with runes is.
Then come back and apologize.
I watched a soccer plot through 4 groups doing this exact same thing. He seemed to just use his stick and spam runes - may have been a bot - it needs a nerf plain and simple
Nobody has provided any real argument against it other than to say they should have this ability
As far as exploit - if someone takes advantage of a group of design features that provide a positive impact that is not intended (duping etc etc) this is an exploit
Whether being able to spam volcanic rune is an exploit is a matter for ZOS in my view it is . I don't expect people currently using it to agree. Much like MOST shield bash spammers didn't agree0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF. Man I am sick and tired of people SCREAMING for nerfs. Meanwhile VR content stays the same and just gets more and more mundane and tedious with every nerf. EVERYONE WANTS A NERF until it is THEIR ability that gets nerfed, then it's WAAAHHH I GOT NERFED!2 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF. Man I am sick and tired of people SCREAMING for nerfs. Meanwhile VR content stays the same and just gets more and more mundane and tedious with every nerf. EVERYONE WANTS A NERF until it is THEIR ability that gets nerfed, then it's WAAAHHH I GOT NERFED!
My ability was nerfed, I agreed it was OP ( shield bash)
I guess it's preferable to leave one class and build so OP that we will all change to that build and this can be Hogwarts - stick and dress game0 -
My god, all I hear is "This ability is to OP because it hurts me and I don't use it...NERF IT PLIX". Just learn to avoid it for ***'s sake, not like you can't see it coming at you.And the world comes to a close once again...1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF. Man I am sick and tired of people SCREAMING for nerfs. Meanwhile VR content stays the same and just gets more and more mundane and tedious with every nerf. EVERYONE WANTS A NERF until it is THEIR ability that gets nerfed, then it's WAAAHHH I GOT NERFED!
My ability was nerfed, I agreed it was OP ( shield bash)
I guess it's preferable to leave one class and build so OP that we will all change to that build and this can be Hogwarts - stick and dress game
For one thing, anyone that joins the mages guild can use VR. Has nothing at all to do with a staff or cloth. If you want to waste your magicka knocking things around, then honestly who cares. it doesn't do that much damage.
The problem is that stamina builds are underpowered.
That is the reason people are switching to magicka builds. So lets stop calling for nerfs for pete's sake and start buffing stamina. If we just keep nerfing instead of buffing, then the VR content is just gonna be more discouraging for people and they are just gonna leave.
Problem solved then aye?
And shield bash was great in PvE. It was nerfed because of abuse in PvP. But that is the problem don't you see? Shield Bash gets nerfed.. then Biting jabs gets nerfed etc.. if we keep nerfing melee abilities, then more and more people are obviously going to switch to what works well.
Edited by Alphashado on June 5, 2014 11:21PM2 -
Inco✭✭✭✭My disagreement is simple. I'm a Templar healer and it's the only decent thing (CC) I have to keep my butt alive. So unless you are also suggesting they give Templar's a REAL CC ability then please sit down and shut up. I don't have a fancy CC like DK's or SORC's and I put my Skill points into the next best thing available to my class.
If your PVE example is based off watching a "SORC" do this then maybe you are barking up the wrong tree and should focus on Magicka recovery of SORC's? Not that I care as it's PVE and everyone has the ability and nobody (Yes including you) should be telling players how they should or should not be able to play a video game.
Every person can spam certain abilities a couple times until they have NO MAGICKA left. If they POP a Potion then that is just keeping them alive longer and should have NO bearing on how they play the game or your witness of that.
I seriously doubt ZOS is going to focus nerf or label this as an Exploit. Takes time to level RUNE and sucks down Magicka to boot. Only SORC's seem to have no issue with Magicka regen - maybe that should looked into first before you go about trying to mess up all players with broad "NERF Needed".
You have said your peace on this thread and even admitted to trolling in one post, you need to just stop fueling the hate on the forums... (You even joked how you got someone to go back and look at your old posts) - yea I'm not going to bother looking/linking as I'm sure you edited it already, but you wrote it on this thread.
Moderators should have closed this one yesterday as I think you are clearly trolling people due to your DK being nerfed. (IMHO and I'm entitled to that TYVM)0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My disagreement is simple. I'm a Templar healer and it's the only decent thing (CC) I have to keep my butt alive. So unless you are also suggesting they give Templar's a REAL CC ability then please sit down and shut up. I don't have a fancy CC like DK's or SORC's and I put my Skill points into the next best thing available to my class.
If your PVE example is based off watching a "SORC" do this then maybe you are barking up the wrong tree and should focus on Magicka recovery of SORC's? Not that I care as it's PVE and everyone has the ability and nobody (Yes including you) should be telling players how they should or should not be able to play a video game.
Every person can spam certain abilities a couple times until they have NO MAGICKA left. If they POP a Potion then that is just keeping them alive longer and should have NO bearing on how they play the game or your witness of that.
I seriously doubt ZOS is going to focus nerf or label this as an Exploit. Takes time to level RUNE and sucks down Magicka to boot. Only SORC's seem to have no issue with Magicka regen - maybe that should looked into first before you go about trying to mess up all players with broad "NERF Needed".
You have said your peace on this thread and even admitted to trolling in one post, you need to just stop fueling the hate on the forums... (You even joked how you got someone to go back and look at your old posts) - yea I'm not going to bother looking/linking as I'm sure you edited it already, but you wrote it on this thread.
Moderators should have closed this one yesterday as I think you are clearly trolling people due to your DK being nerfed. (IMHO and I'm entitled to that TYVM)
Agreed. I also play a Templar, and life in VR zones got a little less tedious when I found VR.
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Mordack✭✭✭The only thing that needs to get nerfed is the VR trash mobs. Maybe then I won't need to constantly use Volcanic Rune just to stay alive...What do you call a Wood Elf who doesn't lie or cheat or steal?
A dead Wood Elf.4 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF. Man I am sick and tired of people SCREAMING for nerfs. Meanwhile VR content stays the same and just gets more and more mundane and tedious with every nerf. EVERYONE WANTS A NERF until it is THEIR ability that gets nerfed, then it's WAAAHHH I GOT NERFED!
My ability was nerfed, I agreed it was OP ( shield bash)
I guess it's preferable to leave one class and build so OP that we will all change to that build and this can be Hogwarts - stick and dress game
For one thing, anyone that joins the mages guild can use VR. Has nothing at all to do with a staff or cloth. If you want to waste your magicka knocking things around, then honestly who cares. it doesn't do that much damage.
The problem is that stamina builds are underpowered.
That is the reason people are switching to magicka builds. So lets stop calling for nerfs for pete's sake and start buffing stamina. If we just keep nerfing instead of buffing, then the VR content is just gonna be more discouraging for people and they are just gonna leave.
Problem solved then aye?
And shield bash was great in PvE. It was nerfed because of abuse in PvP. But that is the problem don't you see? Shield Bash gets nerfed.. then Biting jabs gets nerfed etc.. if we keep nerfing melee abilities, then more and more people are obviously going to switch to what works well.
The thing is I can get Volcanic rune as well but I can never spam it to the level that stick and dress builds designed for that are doing .
If it is indeed OP and unfair than it needs to be nerfed a little0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »That could be an exploit in the eyes of ZOS... For me it is clearly an exploit as you are roflclearing
What YOU "think" is an exploit is irrelevant. If said ability is being used within the scope of it's design it isn't an exploit no matter how much you hate it, or how frustrating it is when players use it against you, end of story.0 -
Oogly✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »I don't think this game can handle another nerf to the last good PvE crowd CC ability.
Without it, NB Tanks would suck in PVE. I never found it used frequently in PVP, damage is too low, area is too small, can be avoided.
^This
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Ralathar44✭✭✭While the OP greatly screwed up in saying alot of things about the skill, he is right that Volcanic Rune is likely to be nerfed. Even if light armor gets nerfed teams of people using volcanic rune trivialize content in a way few if any other skills are capable of.Some questions answer themselves:
So what is the problem with building specifically against an oil farm????
oil farm????0 -
Tootall2186✭✭✭Take away stamina and magicka bars.... Put every skill on their own CDs.... Come back to continue to complain about having skills on CDs... Bring magicka and stamina back and complain about being able to use a skill that requires magicka or stamina repeatedly because every can use the same exact skill but you just like to complain to complain.... Come back and complain the sun is too bright in game...0
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Head.hunter✭✭✭Didn't really know anything about volcanic rune until now.
Gonna have to try it out.Edited by Head.hunter on June 6, 2014 1:27AMI'm just a banana from another dimension.0 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »This ability is being exploited by players in LA with serious magicka regen and endurance to spam this over and over as part of a rotation . This needs a cooldown.
I was next to a V10 that had this on a 4 second rotation constantly juggling mobs.
It is ridiculous and makes the game unbalanced for non magicka based classes.
Please fix this
You seem to be confused, all classes are Magicka based.Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC1 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »This ability is being exploited by players in LA with serious magicka regen and endurance to spam this over and over as part of a rotation . This needs a cooldown.
I was next to a V10 that had this on a 4 second rotation constantly juggling mobs.
It is ridiculous and makes the game unbalanced for non magicka based classes.
Please fix this
You seem to be confused, all classes are Magicka based.
Let me explain it to in case your serious magicka based builds are those who use primarily magicka - typically stick and dress . If you have high magicka regen and all the bonuses you can exploit this to spam volcanic rune so that you can demolish a group of 3 without a single hit on you.
If this is your view of balanced then I guess you must be right
It isn't mine and many others0 -
Really, all we need to nerf is the subscription fee to USD 2.99. I think USD 14.99 is way too op for the amount of fun it deliversEdited by cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO on June 6, 2014 8:25AM2 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »That could be an exploit in the eyes of ZOS... For me it is clearly an exploit as you are roflclearing
What YOU "think" is an exploit is irrelevant. If said ability is being used within the scope of it's design it isn't an exploit no matter how much you hate it, or how frustrating it is when players use it against you, end of story.
My view is it is an exploit because it isn't what was intended - it's an assumption based on what Zen have done in the past and the fact they don't want to trivialise content.
Bottom line if it isn't what is intended and players do it and gain advantage it COULD be viewed as an exploit
Sorry you feel so strongly but there isn't much difference between doing this to roflstomp and some of the other things that have been deemed exploits0 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Tootall2186 wrote: »Take away stamina and magicka bars.... Put every skill on their own CDs.... Come back to continue to complain about having skills on CDs... Bring magicka and stamina back and complain about being able to use a skill that requires magicka or stamina repeatedly because every can use the same exact skill but you just like to complain to complain.... Come back and complain the sun is too bright in game...
Seems your confused between a call to balance one ability and a content complaining player .
If you disagree it shouldn't be nerfed then please proffer a retort so far I haven't had one given that wasn't a form of attack on me and therefore largely irrelevant.0 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »Adding a cooldown is one way to stop the spam exploit 10 second or 5 before it can be use
Others have suggested increased cost which will work unless they find a way around it with pots etc
It's also been suggested to cap it at 2 which I think is a good idea as well.
Inhale got nerfed to oblivion down to being useless so I'd hate to see that but right now it can be exploited and is being exploited by some
You are seriously suggesting a 10 sec cooldown? That might be the most out-of-touch suggestion I have ever seen on these forums. For the sake of the people still playing this game, I hope you never get your wish, you know not what you are asking.
But you believe it is fine to spam an AoE cc ability until the damage from it kills the mob so the player can watch you tube on ipad and grind.
It's faceroll - it needs to be fixed a cool down is one option. If you think it is perfectly legitimate than I question your integrity to the game over your own abilities
You accuse 99% of us for being Exploiters, no wonder people react.
I dont use Volcanic Rune in my main build, its low DPS and ineffective. And if I use it, I only use it once, I have actually never seen anyone cast it more than once on the same mobs.
It is spammable, sure, but so low damage and far between the casts that the DPS is nearly useless. I dont see the problem.
Besides, you are mixing two words, Exploit and Abuse, and from what I can tell in your descriptions of how Volcanic Rune is used, it is Abused, not an Exploit, because it does exactly what it is described to do, nothing more.
When 99% of the community strongly disagrees with you, you need to take a step back and think through what you are saying, because you are calling almost every single poster in this thread for exploitersFimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC2 -
Kililin✭✭✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »If you nerf a generally used tool, that makes the Veteran content bearable you will lose subs.
I am sure shield bash nerf cost subs.
There are lots of players on the fringe of quitting, it is that bad at the moment.
Its no good idea to nerf everything that works, until everyone feels like playing a broken class.
Difficult gameplay is ok with me, but when every trashmob fight is like a bossfight and afterwards i get some coins and a white item and a whopping 500VP out of 4million, something is wrong.
If you can not kill trash mob pulls easily something is wrong with you char, and most likely some of you skills need buffs.
They need to get a grip and start fixing things, without breaking others if possible.
Damn your frustrating me a little.
Maybe read a couple of posts again . You will work it out a little better
I don't need to.
You are stating:
My char can do X
Everyone who is able do to things i can't is overpowered.
I don't care how they do it, the skill i see is Y so please nerf Y.
As justification you say:
I saw someone using skill Y and it did things that in my personal opinion are not okay. Also my char can not do it, it is exploiting, because my character is the baseline everyone should be able to only do things i can do.
Please explain to me:
How do you know if stunlocking mobs is intended or not?
How long should it take to kill 3 mobs, how fast is overpowered.
How much ressources should one have left after finishing said pack of mobs?
Why is Volcanic Rune overpowered? (Please explain without comparing it to your character)
hey
How do you know if stunlocking mobs is intended or not?
How long should it take to kill 3 mobs, how fast is overpowered.
How much ressources should one have left after finishing said pack of mobs?
Why is Volcanic Rune overpowered? (Please explain without comparing it to your character)
How much DPS should a char be able to do on 3 mobs?
How long should a LA wearer survive 3 mobs punding on him? How long for HA?
You are talking about intended and overpowered, and can not tell us what the baseline is.
I think not even ZOS knows, so it is not your fault you can not answer.
But how do you assess what is overpowered or an exploit?
If it is according to your thought out baseline, tell us what it is.
Obviously ZOS thinks NB's are underpowered, while they can push over 1k dps single target. Obviously ZOS thinks Sorcerer are in a good place as are templars.
See Road Ahead post.
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ZoM_Head✭✭✭✭As a veteran 7 player, it is a life saver in veteran content since i am a templar healer.
There are so many NPC mobs that is thrown at you, i have no other kind of CC. Infact only Dragonknights and Sourcerers have class CC, everyone else has access to Volcanic Rune.
Do not nerf it at all, go play a Veteran dungeon, see how many mobs are thrown at you before reaching any boss. Leave it as it is.mDKs still need a lot of love!1 -
Fleymark✭✭✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »Adding a cooldown is one way to stop the spam exploit 10 second or 5 before it can be use
Others have suggested increased cost which will work unless they find a way around it with pots etc
It's also been suggested to cap it at 2 which I think is a good idea as well.
Inhale got nerfed to oblivion down to being useless so I'd hate to see that but right now it can be exploited and is being exploited by some
You are seriously suggesting a 10 sec cooldown? That might be the most out-of-touch suggestion I have ever seen on these forums. For the sake of the people still playing this game, I hope you never get your wish, you know not what you are asking.
But you believe it is fine to spam an AoE cc ability until the damage from it kills the mob so the player can watch you tube on ipad and grind.
It's faceroll - it needs to be fixed a cool down is one option. If you think it is perfectly legitimate than I question your integrity to the game over your own abilities
You accuse 99% of us for being Exploiters, no wonder people react.
I dont use Volcanic Rune in my main build, its low DPS and ineffective. And if I use it, I only use it once, I have actually never seen anyone cast it more than once on the same mobs.
It is spammable, sure, but so low damage and far between the casts that the DPS is nearly useless. I dont see the problem.
Besides, you are mixing two words, Exploit and Abuse, and from what I can tell in your descriptions of how Volcanic Rune is used, it is Abused, not an Exploit, because it does exactly what it is described to do, nothing more.
When 99% of the community strongly disagrees with you, you need to take a step back and think through what you are saying, because you are calling almost every single poster in this thread for exploiters
You apparently didn't get the memo. It's 2014. Anything anyone does that someone else doesn't do or doesn't like is instantly "an exploit."
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