http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107393/official-discussion-thread-for-the-road-ahead-june-4th/p1

lookes like [snip]to be honest. No fixes for stamina builds, melee and heavy armor.
No fixes for NPC that can target and shoot through walls. And lock spells/arrows.
No mention about thieves, brotherhood guild.
NO justice system.

Glad I unsubbed.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

I like that you could come back to some of the dungeons and fight it with higher level and get higher level loot.
How bout vr12 ebony or wormcult set ? :P

I think it looks good as well. They admit that there's problems, but they're taking the time to carefully consider how to best fix it, instead of slapping out changes here and there that could make things more chaotic and worsen the problems.

There's so much doom and gloom on these forums, when, honestly, this is game with gorgeous graphics and an amazing level of customization. Granted, there are some rough spots, and I won't deny magic builds are much stronger than melee, as well as poor the story of poor Templars and Nightblades, but I'd prefer they take the time to get things right, instead of a constant teeter totter of buffing and nerfing.

They're balancing things, adding new concepts, and creating new content. They're not massively shoveling everything out at once, like some people want them to do, but as long as they do it right, I don't mind them going at it in smaller chunks.

actually it looks boring. why would I change color of my gear when there is so much content missing (battlegrounds, fix for classes, buggy quests, buggy game etc.)

No, I don't agree.

ZOS seems to have no idea how to balance their game and there's literally nothing in the near future that I'm excited about.

I like what I saw.

Nice blend of continued development of end-game and repairing what's not working.

I completely disagree with @Wargasmo. Fix the game at large -and- work on end-game. Not everyone rushes to VR12 in a week and then spends more time trolling the forums than playing. There's VR content in the pipeline. Get that working well before pumping out more AND fix the game. There are enough resources for everything. @Wargasmo will be among the first on the forums to complain if the rapidly-created end-game content being spewed out is less than perfect from the start so I say do it right, not fast.

Oh, but first and foremost... fix my gorram Nightblade!!

While I am sure those updates hold appeal for the about half the playerbase who don't mind running the same character day and night through all 3 alliances.

I really see nothing for the other half of the player base who wants different characters in each alliances. Where is regular zone solo content?

I think it looks good. However, the biggest issue right now is Templar and Nightblade Viability in Trials and the absolute dominance of essentially everybody wearing light armor and wielding a staff and they didn't address those at all aside from "incremental improvements to Nightblade," and "incremental nerfs to Dragon Knight." Nothing about Templars.

I am in this for the long haul and don't think this product will be what I would consider "released" for a year or so. But that's the case with nearly every AAA title these days and not a one has the flexibility and exploration values this game does.

@wargasmo. You missed a 3rd type of player, which represents a HUGE chunk of the people I know and play with, and that includes most members of 2 of my guilds... and that's people who are NOT in a rush to level IMMEDIATELY. Some of us savor the game. I've got over 120 hours on my most played character and almost 100 on another and about 80 on a 3rd. I'm enjoying the content. Sometimes I just spend time exploring or walking ( not running ) around towns and talking with the NPCs. Some of them are quite entertaining. Some times I go out hunting for crafting materials, battling Dark Anchors and world bosses. I enjoy the game and want it to last. Like sipping a smoky, 25 year old scotch instead of chugging a $6 bottle of rot-gut.

End-game content is in the pipe. They've had content we won't see for years in development since before launch. But I'd rather see fully fleshed out end-game content at a slower pace than rapidly released, unbalanced crap that will just bring people back to the forums to whine and wench and cry and complain.

Since the road to End Game passes through -every- zone in Tamriel I believe that making the -core- game as smooth and balanced as possible is the First Priority. Especially since core game balance will be needed to establish End Game balance. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Azzuria wrote: »

@wargasmo. You missed a 3rd type of player, which represents a HUGE chunk of the people I know and play with, and that includes most members of 2 of my guilds... and that's people who are NOT in a rush to level IMMEDIATELY. Some of us savor the game. I've got over 120 hours on my most played character and almost 100 on another and about 80 on a 3rd. I'm enjoying the content. Sometimes I just spend time exploring or walking ( not running ) around towns and talking with the NPCs. Some of them are quite entertaining. Some times I go out hunting for crafting materials, battling Dark Anchors and world bosses. I enjoy the game and want it to last. Like sipping a smoky, 25 year old scotch instead of chugging a $6 bottle of rot-gut.

...


Since the road to End Game passes through -every- zone in Tamriel I believe that making the -core- game as smooth and balanced as possible is the First Priority. Especially since core game balance will be needed to establish End Game balance. Don't put the cart before the horse.

I'm thinking even the majority of your 3rd type of player is nearing VR12 by this point. I'm not a particularly efficient quester or even a particularly driven grinder and I hit VR 10 the day Craiglorn dropped and VR 12 4 days later on a 3 hour a day play schedule ( would've done it faster if I wasn't dicking around in trails so much)... and my OP DK alt is set to do it in about a third of the time because of craiglorn... which brings me to your second point.

The road to endgame no longer passes through every zone in Tamriel. It passes through the original content, at which point the player can spend a few weeks meandering through the other, relatively deserted campaigns or they can take this new spiffy beeline expressway we call craiglorn and be VR 12 in about 5 days of very moderate gaming running instances and zerging around anomalies tombs and world bosses.

Finally, I'd like to say that EVERY leveling experience in mmo's is $6 rot-gut. If you wanted scotch or brandy you should try out single player fare. Basically anything other than ESO that Bethesda has had a hand in would suit you well. In MMO's we don't really want scotch or brandy or any high quality liqor. We slam down our $6 rot gut because we have to. Because we signed up for the Amazing Race and the first 12 ppl to slam down all the rot gut get a spot in the showcase showdown we call trials.

Endgame IS mmo gaming. We don't drink alcohol, we drink DKP. We don't eat lobster, we eat world first progression. We don't have molten chocolate upside down cake for desert, we have organized pvp. But mostly.. we just don't drink because drunk people stand in the fire. And get kicked out of the raid.

killedbyping wrote: »

And i actualy like the fact that they dont just push huge update at once but do 1 content push at a time.

They dont do huge updates because even the little ones break more than they fix.

Azzuria wrote: »

Wargasmo wrote: »

Endgame IS mmo gaming. We don't drink alcohol, we drink DKP. We don't eat lobster, we eat world first progression. We don't have molten chocolate upside down cake for desert, we have organized pvp. But mostly.. we just don't drink because drunk people stand in the fire. And get kicked out of the raid.

YOU eat world-first progression. I've done that on a few games and most of the people I play with, which is WAY more than '24' are NOT approaching VR 12. We DO favor scotch over rot-gut. Way to make assumptions, sir.

Just because YOU want something doesn't make it THE priority. It's important to YOU and a few others, but to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as some unimportant, freakish minority dimishes you and negates your arguement.

And I was drunk when my RP-Centric raid got our server-first kill on Gruul and I had 2nd highest DPS on him. I was drunk when my raid-group did organized PvP. I was sober, however, when we did BWL. Couldn't kite drakes while drunk, but I tried. So, I've been in your shoes and can see your perpective. Just wish you had a modicum of respect for any opinion but your own.

I never said I didn't respect your opinion or your style of play. The debate, however, is over what is best for the game. If certain bugged quests stay bugged and cosmetic issues are ignored, you and players like you may experience mild annoyance, but you aren't going to quit the game over it, and it won't break your gaming experience. There are enough VR12 players of every faction, to give testament that the game is in good enough working condition for players to complete the leveling content. Hell, I have a bug where I summoned the preorder pet, then destroyed all my pets to make inventory room... and now I can't get rid of the preorder pet... ever. It just follows me around. It used to even occasionally eat some of the heals I threw out, although that has long since been fixed before I hit content where it would have actually mattered. Would I like it fixed so I can get rid of the pet? Sure. Do I want them to make it a priority before fixing my class so I can do more than 700 sustained dps as a Templar? No. Fix my class first please. Fix NB too. Do I want them to fix the bug and delay the next raid instance by a week? No. Next instance please.

If class balance isn't dealt with, it breaks the gaming experience for ALL VR12 Nightblades and Templars who will undoubtedly either end up rerolling or quitting the game if imbalance persists for too long (and it already HAS persisted too long for a lot of people).

Likewise, if endgame content is not updated in a timely fashion and designed with sufficient difficulty that it keeps us in the game, endgame raiders WILL leave the game for greener pastures. And if all the Templars, Nightblades, and endgame raiders leave the game... there won't be anyone left except casual DK's and Sorcs.... and the game will go through the all too familiar cycle of dwindling community, going f2p in its final death throes, and finally quietly dying when the next wave of shiny titles comes out.

My point is that resources need to be spent on issues that people are going to leave the game over rather than issues that people aren't going to leave the game over. The next few months are critical for ESO, as people are going to judge to merits of this game with Wildstar, which just released and few players are willing to give their loyalty to more than one mmo at a time. With EQnext on the horizon, ZOS needs to make a compelling argument to make players stay in Tamriel. "We fixed the quest bugs" is not this argument. "We balanced classes and weapons and are releasing a brand new tier of 12 man content replete with hard mode challenges and and achievements that fuel an extended and updated line of undaunted skills" IS the argument they need to make and they need to make it now rather than later, when it's too late. Very few players return to an MMO once they've quit and fallen far enough behind in character progression or severed ties with their guilds and gaming communities.

And the thing is.. that I'm not even IN the shoes of a hardcore raider anymore. There's no way I can dedicate the pts time, let alone the actual progression push time that a guild pushing for world 1sts would require. I barely have the time as it is to dedicate to a casual guild that schedules guild trial runs in this game presently. That doesn't mean that suddenly, just because I have a casual play schedule, I fail to see that it is the hardcore and dedicated progression players that create the communities, lifeblood, and backbone of a successful MMO. Even if you can't be or don't want to be a progression raider, you need to be able to see the fact that every MMO that has lost its progression raider crowd has become a dead, f2p mmo that even gold sellers don't bother to support anymore.

I hate to put it bluntly like this, but if you largely ignore the casual crowd's grumblings they wont quit your game for it. They have plenty to do because they're still stuck trying to figure out how to not die to 3 pulls and survive manimarco's adds. They have stuff to do, so the roadblock of a bugged quest or 2 won't bother them much and if they have the time to gripe about it on forums they have the time to google bugged quests and read posts about how to skip content and move on. Not catering to casuals never hurt anyone. If you ignore the progression raiding crowd long enough, however, they WILL quit your game and your game will die. A buy to play like gw2 can afford to have progression raiders quit their game. A sub-based game like ESO that hopes to offset higher production cost and higher upkeep with subscription revenues cannot.

I think the two kinds of gamers in ESO are those who enjoy playing and those who don't play.