Is the nightblade broken? I mean, reeeally?

sommazzatoreb14_ESO · June 2014

So I just don't understand how all these people are complaining about the NB when then Templar is easily the worst class in the game. The Templar needs a Caution message before you select it saying UNABLE TO SOLO WITH IN VETERAN LEVELS, I would imagine some of you have read/commented on my post about the templar since it has nearly 18k views

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/86841/templars-are-so-underpowered#latest .

My nightblade went straight to VR12 solo just fine. My templar is stuck at vet 7 because I'm not going to find questing partners everytime I wanna do quests. Thats just not how I wanna play. I have also won a few 3 v 1 fights in pvp against people similiar level as me when playing as an NB, and as you can probably guess, can't as a templar. I swear, the armor is broken for the temp too, I can wear 7 heavy and go down faster than my nightblade wearing all medium (when both are just standing there taking hits. NBs have the best execute, the second best escape, the best self returns, the best sneak attacks. Sure a few skills aren't working as designed, but is it really broken/unplayable?

This game is great, I try to say that as much as I can because this game certainly doesn't get enough credit, and this post is mostly directed at everyone 'regretting' the NB. I just don't understand.

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

It's not a competition for who's the worst class, they both suck and need some major attention.

ShedsHisTail · June 2014

Nightblade has specific mechanics which are, by definition, non-functional or broken.

However, the class is perfectly playable as it is.

AltusVenifus · June 2014

All class are playable and decent in light armor and staves. Templars have lower DPS than NB, but have better utility, group function etc. Everyone is saying they are unplayable due to low yield DPS.

They need a DPS buff, so do NBs. A NB who provides 550 DPS is in most cases lest desirable than a Temp who provides 450 but adds off healing.

DPS is an absolute must right now due to craglorn content. Hence, NBs and Templars don't get to play. The reason I believe NB is worst off, is because they are a DPS focused class with less survivability and utilty than temp, but still have crap DPS...

I hear you though and want both classes to get a buff.

MaxBat · June 2014

I may be wrong on this, but I believe there are nightblade skills which are not WAD (where D is not only designed but described). So, yeah, nightblade is a bit broken.

However, nightblade - as ShedsHisTail notes - is still playable and viable. My nightblade rolls are surviving and thriving, due to some good suggestions by people on this forum. And nightblade offers some options to players: different weapon choices, and even different playstyles.

My Templar, however, is dead in the water. Unless you want to play a healer, Templars don't really do anything as well as another class. Some of their skills don't even make sense and are more dangerous to use than to not, particularly in solo (Healing Ritual, I'm looking at you ...).

I'll probably give in and give my Templar a resto staff, turning her into everyone's favorite babysitter - which is not what I wanted when I rolled her. So I don't have any options and I've basically been forced to play a Templar as a healer ... which kind of sucks.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

I've seen a few nightblades who just sync well with their class. I personally had to learn how to make the class work for me. Archer/medium armor isn't terribly strong, but I rarely lose a 3v1 and can sometimes even take on four or five.

Most strong nightblades I've seen are really abusing the cloak mechanics (a bugged mechanic which can cause mobs to stop any actions they are doing, go comotose, or even reset). Most of these are either light armor builds are are heavily focused for magicka regen.

You find those videos all over the net, and it's only a matter of time before the issue gets fixed and these players become ... well, in the same boat as the rest of us.

The real issue isn't with the class itself, though there are some borked mechanics still. The real issue lies in the balance between magicka based defense/offense builds, and stamina builds. Right now, magicka builds are simply stronger, resulting in stronger tanks, better damage-per-point spent, and more efficiency overall. This makes light armor and class skill or staff builds superior to their alternatives as well.

Either fixing the reliance of stamina for rolls, blocks, interrupts, sprinting and stealth ... or fix the assortment of skills and abilities that rely on stamina to be more powerful. Seems a new stat for those skills would be a wiser choice.

thelg · June 2014

They are fine except that they don't have the broken builds that allow insane dps in trials. I think that will get nerfed rather then NB dps will get buffed.

Its the law of the MMOs if there is a "stealth" class it always whines the most

Drasn · June 2014

MaxBat wrote: »

I may be wrong on this, but I believe there are nightblade skills which are not WAD (where D is not only designed but described). So, yeah, nightblade is a bit broken.

However, nightblade - as ShedsHisTail notes - is still playable and viable. My nightblade rolls are surviving and thriving, due to some good suggestions by people on this forum. And nightblade offers some options to players: different weapon choices, and even different playstyles.

My Templar, however, is dead in the water. Unless you want to play a healer, Templars don't really do anything as well as another class. Some of their skills don't even make sense and are more dangerous to use than to not, particularly in solo (Healing Ritual, I'm looking at you ...).

I'll probably give in and give my Templar a resto staff, turning her into everyone's favorite babysitter - which is not what I wanted when I rolled her. So I don't have any options and I've basically been forced to play a Templar as a healer ... which kind of sucks.

Unfortunately, carrying around a resto staff and proclaiming you are a templar healer is only slightly better than proclaiming you are a templar dps. Neither are groupable unless the group is desperate.

MaxBat · June 2014

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately, carrying around a resto staff and proclaiming you are a templar healer is only slightly better than proclaiming you are a templar dps. Neither are groupable unless the group is desperate.

God, this feels like high school all over again ...

Gern_Verkheart · June 2014

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

It's not a competition for who's the worst class, they both suck and need some major attention.

This is all that should have been said in response to this thread. It's pointless to argue about which class is more broken than another.

Bromburak · June 2014

sommazzatoreb14_ESO wrote: »

So I just don't understand how all these people are complaining about the NB when then Templar is easily the worst class in the game.

1. The Templar is not the worst class, he has a pretty strong utility.
But his skill lines are designed to much for support and less offensive.
This class concept can be boring to play solo.

2. The NB is not broken, but some of his skills (passives) are bugged.
Anyway he is still fine and its fun to play him, but some issues were game breaking.

The main issue was that some skills were not responding and this makes it hard to play any class when skill events are not reliable. This has been improved and its much better now. As well the NB is not a casual anytimer class like the DK, thats why many players complain because they cannot handle the NB.

However, the core issues in balancing are not class dependent.
Its the non existing motivation to use weapon skills because of non existing stamina/magicka balance. People that prefer melee with weapons and not using magicka based skills will not be happy with TESO and being frustrated about the fact that Zenimax is not giving a reason to play weapon stamina based builds.

Shortly, we actually know the history and current state of the game and as a player we can accept it or not! I accept it and still loving it.

Stamden · June 2014

Contrary to popular belief, NBs are far and wide the best class in the game right now. Anyone that goes light armor and uses a staff can see that. Problem is 95% of them are running a stamina build and that is the reason the majority of players think NBs are crap.

methjester · June 2014

Try to find a PUG in Craglorn as a Nightblade DPS. Anything before that doesn't matter. Using a staff and light armor is so awesomely in synergy with all of the NB's class abilities it's not even funny.

Trisstraeb14_ESO · June 2014

Right there with ya. Never had any problems from 1 to vet 12, solo'd most content including a lot of the public dungeons and bosses, and now that I'm geared at vr12 I can solo vr10 dolmens. I haven't had any problems tanking or healing in veteran content, and I can pull okayish dps as a caster. The gameplay is great, the PVP is really great - have never encountered any issues in PVP fighting equal level people of any class, and never felt like I was "under powered".
- with that said, I don't run a stamina build. I didn't enjoy the playstyle of the bow, or fire staff, or dual wield. Just wasn't for me. I like more of a caster/dot archetype, and I love sword and shield. Most abilities on my bar are magicka. I think the problem is that maybe it's more common for Nightblade to attempt stamina builds because they want the pure assassin archetype, so they pick up dual wield and bow for that reason and end up under-performing compared to magicka builds, not necessarily compared to other classes. I don't know enough about other classes to say (I have only a templar at 45 other than my v12 NB) but, from what I can tell, it seems like *most* stamina builds aren't working as well as the magicka ones... so there ya have it.
Very happy with my Nightblade here!

sommazzatoreb14_ESO · June 2014

I actually built my NB Stamina based and my dps is massive. Especially on bosses in craglorn, I have two spammable executes that hit for nearly 850 every time I crit (yes thats on the bosses). So It seems like no matter how you build it its fine. I do agree as well that its not a competition which class is the worst.

Trisstraeb14_ESO · June 2014

sommazzatoreb14_ESO wrote: »

I actually built my NB Stamina based and my dps is massive. Especially on bosses in craglorn, I have two spammable executes that hit for nearly 850 every time I crit (yes thats on the bosses). So It seems like no matter how you build it its fine. I do agree as well that its not a competition which class is the worst.

That's really great to hear. I haven't messed around with stamina builds, nice to know they're actually viable for us.

Rylana · June 2014

A magicka build NB will do crits of 500 to everything around it, js.

So just under double that amount on a single target seems a bit underwhelming.

Stam builds are complete crap, but a full magicka build works fine.

sommazzatoreb14_ESO · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

A magicka build NB will do crits of 500 to everything around it, js.

So just under double that amount on a single target seems a bit underwhelming.

Stam builds are complete crap, but a full magicka build works fine.

Thats your opinion and thats fine. Thats also against 3 bar Vr12 (maybe vr 10?) Bosses in craglorn so.... yea. I crit for 1500 the other day when I sneak attacked with wrecking blow vs another vr10 in PvP and crit for over 2k when I sneak attack against mobs in pve. I doubt you are crit-ing with AOE abilities against anomaly bosses and stuff of that sort.

madstoogb16_ESO · June 2014

So my skill trees are assassination, shadow and siphoning and I'm supposed to run around with a staff while wearing a dress to get the best out of my class?

Would i be better off just rolling a sorcerer instead of a nightblade... I mean if i wanted to play a mage i would have.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

madstoogb16_ESO wrote: »

So my skill trees are assassination, shadow and siphoning and I'm supposed to run around with a staff while wearing a dress to get the best out of my class?

Would i be better off just rolling a sorcerer instead of a nightblade... I mean if i wanted to play a mage i would have.

Basically. But you'll still be inferior to the other dress and stick classes.

darkopale · June 2014

You are not happy with your templar ? You are not doing enough damages ? dont worry TESO has a solution for you !!!

Play EVERY CLASS in the game with a staff, you ll be awesome

My NB with a staff do more damages than with dagger and sword with a stealth backstab attack and can do ranged attack.

Trust me, Play EVERY CLASS in the game with a staff, you ll be awesome

Welcome to "The Elder STAFF Online"

charles_crowe · June 2014

sommazzatoreb14_ESO wrote: »

I actually built my NB Stamina based and my dps is massive. Especially on bosses in craglorn, I have two spammable executes that hit for nearly 850 every time I crit (yes thats on the bosses). So It seems like no matter how you build it its fine. I do agree as well that its not a competition which class is the worst.

except your (our) executes are magicka-based class abilities. (mine crit for over 1k, 1.5k if i open with concealed weapon from stealth, 1.2k if i open from stealth with ambush.)

the problems stem from medium/heavy armor passives being as useful as soap on a pig, and stamina abilities being lackluster to say the least.

NB has the potential to be an AMAZING class, but the current game mechanics don't support bow/DW/2h/OH&S abilities.

I'd start in on the current HP bloat, but with abilities as imbalanced as they are, it wouldn't matter. (v12 elite mobs with 75k HP? NB light armor casters with 3k+?)

sommazzatoreb14_ESO · June 2014

I actually don't mind running into anyone in light armor, esp one on one it seems like I melt them pretty quick. I am annoyed at the 360 degree shield bs. Thats the biggest thing that pisses me off with this game. Everything else just seems to be kinks that will work out over a little time.

deacon13 · June 2014

Is this a Troll Thread ?

Are you kidding . Look at the top of this Forum .

Kililin · June 2014

madstoogb16_ESO wrote: »

So my skill trees are assassination, shadow and siphoning and I'm supposed to run around with a staff while wearing a dress to get the best out of my class?

Would i be better off just rolling a sorcerer instead of a nightblade... I mean if i wanted to play a mage i would have.

As a sorcerer you would do less damage ... (if you compare them with the same set of armor and weapons of course)

sommazzatoreb14_ESO · June 2014

deacon13 wrote: »

Is this a Troll Thread ?

Are you kidding . Look at the top of this Forum .

I mean, I guess if you don't understand then this must be a troll post... right?
omg lol

Mablung · June 2014

Nightblades are serviceable to a degree. I was doing just fine as a DW/Bow stam build prior to patch 1.1.2. With the same build however and at VR9, soloing has become almost impossible for regular questing. I am not sure why tbh.

The class does have a ton broke/bugged about it but I have avoided those abilities/passives. I am not sure why things changed after the patch but I can no longer effectively take a pack of 3. It could be a learn to play issue I suppose but that makes little sense, since I was fine prior to patch.

I suggest just jumping over to craglorn, equipping a resto staff and go all heals and heavy attacks in a grind group.

deacon13 · June 2014

charles_crowe wrote: »

sommazzatoreb14_ESO wrote: »

I actually built my NB Stamina based and my dps is massive. Especially on bosses in craglorn, I have two spammable executes that hit for nearly 850 every time I crit (yes thats on the bosses). So It seems like no matter how you build it its fine. I do agree as well that its not a competition which class is the worst.

except your (our) executes are magicka-based class abilities. (mine crit for over 1k, 1.5k if i open with concealed weapon from stealth, 1.2k if i open from stealth with ambush.)

the problems stem from medium/heavy armor passives being as useful as soap on a pig, and stamina abilities being lackluster to say the least.

NB has the potential to be an AMAZING class, but the current game mechanics don't support bow/DW/2h/OH&S abilities.

I'd start in on the current HP bloat, but with abilities as imbalanced as they are, it wouldn't matter. (v12 elite mobs with 75k HP? NB light armor casters with 3k+?)

This is the truth .

Plus some of their skills are on the verge of useless . Some are still broken . All their Ults are extremely underpowered when compared to other classes . Dragon Standard , Storm Antorach etc etc

Kililin · June 2014

Nightblades can do very good dps, please check teh internets or some good NB's in game.

If you think you are broken with anything else than staff/LA, who is not?

After all your bugged skills are fixed it will be like unnerfed DK mode

If some of the others are also buffed...

sommazzatoreb14_ESO · June 2014

Idk about unnerfed DK, but much better, true.