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Immovable Without Heavy Armor
Catches_the_Sun
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Why are we allowed to use Immovable without wearing any heavy armor? This doesn't make any sense to me. We can't use Scorched Earth without a Bow, can't use Executioner without a 2H weapon...why should armor abilities be any different? With so much discussion around the lack of Heavy Armor builds, you would think there would at least be some kind of restriction around the BEST incentive to wear Heavy. It's a bit strange to see every 7-light armor build in Cyrodiil popping up their Immovable skill to stay softcapped on armor.
Edited by Catches_the_Sun on June 4, 2014 4:27PM Catches-the-Sun - Argonian Templar - Master Smith, Provisioner, Chemist & Tailor
Valaren Arobone - Dunmer Flamewalker - Master Woodworker, Provisioner, Assassin
Kazahad - Khajiiti Arcane Archer - Master Thief
V'orkten - Redguard Swordmaster
Finnvardr the Frenzied - Werewolf Berzerker
Valaren Arobone - Dunmer Flamewalker - Master Woodworker, Provisioner, Assassin
Kazahad - Khajiiti Arcane Archer - Master Thief
V'orkten - Redguard Swordmaster
Finnvardr the Frenzied - Werewolf Berzerker
16
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Mykah✭✭✭Agreed.
I would like to see Armor abilities require 3 pieces of that armor type equipped to be activated.4 -
Catches_the_Sun✭✭✭✭✭I would say 5 minimum.
I completely agree. It should not only require a piece or 2, but a commitment to the armor line.Theres a potion for that.
The potion Unstoppable makes you immune to CC effects, but doesn't do anything for your Armor & Spell resist like Immovable does. Immovable can put a 7-light armor wearing caster at armor softcap.
Edited by Catches_the_Sun on June 4, 2014 6:03PMCatches-the-Sun - Argonian Templar - Master Smith, Provisioner, Chemist & Tailor
Valaren Arobone - Dunmer Flamewalker - Master Woodworker, Provisioner, Assassin
Kazahad - Khajiiti Arcane Archer - Master Thief
V'orkten - Redguard Swordmaster
Finnvardr the Frenzied - Werewolf Berzerker1 -
CosmicChaos✭✭✭Catches_the_Sun wrote: »Why are we allowed to use Immovable without wearing any heavy armor? This doesn't make any sense to me. We can't use Scorched Earth without a Bow, can't use Executioner without a 2H weapon...why should armor abilities be any different? With so much discussion around the lack of Heavy Armor builds, you would think there would at least be some kind of restriction around the BEST incentive to wear Heavy. It's a bit strange to see every 7-light armor build in Cyrodiil popping up their Immovable skill to stay softcapped on armor.
I don't think players in Cryodiil are using that primarily for the armor buff. If you have used an armor buff skill much you should understand. Most DPS in this game is applied with magicka. Spell resist is the only thing that makes much difference in PVP. They get plenty of that from other sources to softcap it without Immovable. What they need from it is a decent CC immunity that cost stamina, a resource they don't use much anyways. >.<
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your original goal. Personally I don't see an issue with immovable being open to all since all the armor skills work that way. However it is strange they went that way with them.Edited by CosmicChaos on June 4, 2014 6:06PM0 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Armor skills should indeed require 5 or more pieces of the armor they are derived from equipped.
And Immovable brute's weapon damage increase should be when slotted instead of on use
I believe I submitted in-game feedback on both of these sometime ago actually.3 -
Catches_the_Sun✭✭✭✭✭CosmicChaos wrote: »I don't think players in Cryodiil are using that primarily for the armor buff. If you have used an armor buff skill much you should understand. Most DPS in this game is applied with magicka. Spell resist is the only thing that makes much difference in PVP. They get plenty of that from other sources to softcap it without Immovable. What they need from it is a decent CC immunity that cost stamina, a resource they don't use much anyways. >.<
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your original goal. Personally I don't see an issue with immovable being open to all since all the armor skills work that way. However it is strange they went that way with them.
First of all, I never said they're using it just for the armor buff. While they can reach softcap in spell resist through other means, pushing 500+ over the spell resist softcap through Immovable is quite a bonus. As stamina builds don't have much viability in Cyrodiil as it stands right now, anything that gives this kind of bonus without using the precious magicka resource is another great bonus as you point out.
The armor buff is just another perk they get on top of that, leading to the argument of "why wear anything but light armor" when I can pop a stamina-use skill that gives me softcap in armor, pushes me well over softcap in spell resist & gives me CC at the same time.
Just so I'm clear, I would want all of the armor active skills to have a minimum requirement of 5 pieces. I am discussing Immovable because that's the one that people use.
Catches-the-Sun - Argonian Templar - Master Smith, Provisioner, Chemist & Tailor
Valaren Arobone - Dunmer Flamewalker - Master Woodworker, Provisioner, Assassin
Kazahad - Khajiiti Arcane Archer - Master Thief
V'orkten - Redguard Swordmaster
Finnvardr the Frenzied - Werewolf Berzerker0 -
Brutalis✭✭So... you want everyone in PVP to be wearing Heavy Armor ...and everyone in Trials to wear light?A Roman walks into a bar and hold up two fingers and says, "I'll have five beers please."0 -
Orizuru✭✭✭I get the feeling the devs wanted to this skill to fill the same role that PVP trinkets did in WoW.
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Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭The game is sadly balanced around light armor tanks at the moment. Since they need all three attributes, they use light armor to make their spells cast able so they can invest more into stamina and health. Most use Immovable to then reach the armor soft cap in light armor.
You'd need to add cost reduction passives to heavy armor if you want to restrict Immovabel, or watch every single tank disappear.1 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would say 5 minimum.
5 might be a bit much, after all that means that if you equip one piece of another type of armour the ultimate goes away.
3 or 4 seems enough to me.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
maxilaub17_ESO✭✭✭Catches_the_Sun wrote: »Why are we allowed to use Immovable without wearing any heavy armor? This doesn't make any sense to me. We can't use Scorched Earth without a Bow, can't use Executioner without a 2H weapon...why should armor abilities be any different? With so much discussion around the lack of Heavy Armor builds, you would think there would at least be some kind of restriction around the BEST incentive to wear Heavy. It's a bit strange to see every 7-light armor build in Cyrodiil popping up their Immovable skill to stay softcapped on armor.
I agree that activated armor abilities should require 5 pieces worn minimum to use. Armor passives already scale to how many pieces are equipped, there's no good reason the abilities should be usable with 1 or 2 pieces equipped.
Edited by maxilaub17_ESO on June 4, 2014 8:19PM0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
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5 or more??demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Armor skills should indeed require 5 or more pieces of the armor they are derived from equipped.
You do realise that 5 pieces is the maximum.
Feet, Legs, Torso. Hands and Head. 5 places to equip armour. Shield is not light/medium/heavy.
People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule2 -
Najarati✭✭✭I agree with the 5-piece requirement. If you want to use that armor line's active skill you should have to commit to it.0 -
AlexDougherty wrote: »
5 or more??demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Armor skills should indeed require 5 or more pieces of the armor they are derived from equipped.
You do realise that 5 pieces is the maximum.
Feet, Legs, Torso. Hands and Head. 5 places to equip armour. Shield is not light/medium/heavy.
shoulders and waist. 7 is total, if you do not count weapon/shield/ring/neck0 -
LilMcGinley✭✭Perhaps they should make the other armor skills better first...
Light - Horrid armor shield that does nothing my PvP gear set doesn't do better.
Medium - Dodge chance that doesn't even let you it's either working or is helping you.Edited by LilMcGinley on June 4, 2014 8:24PM1 -
Brutalis✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »
5 or more??demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Armor skills should indeed require 5 or more pieces of the armor they are derived from equipped.
You do realise that 5 pieces is the maximum.
Feet, Legs, Torso. Hands and Head. 5 places to equip armour. Shield is not light/medium/heavy.
^^^^ Cant be none more wrong... 7 pieces is max, Shoulders and Belt. IQ +1
A Roman walks into a bar and hold up two fingers and says, "I'll have five beers please."0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭stevenpotter321b14_ESO wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »
5 or more??demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Armor skills should indeed require 5 or more pieces of the armor they are derived from equipped.
You do realise that 5 pieces is the maximum.
Feet, Legs, Torso. Hands and Head. 5 places to equip armour. Shield is not light/medium/heavy.
shoulders and waist. 7 is total, if you do not count weapon/shield/ring/neck
Oops forgot Shoulders and waist.
Ok, in that case 5 or more should be enough.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Brutalis✭✭Sorry guys but this is a terrible idea.
Putting a requirement on those skills will simply force everyone to wear those armor types for the needed situations.
PVP - Might as well run heavy since Immovable is almost a must
Trials - Need to switch to light when fighting Willow boss since Annulment is pretty much a must.
While my examples are not the be all end all situation, they do point out that this would kill what little diversity there is. And EVERYONE will skill up all their Armor passives in order to have access.... perhaps some already do.
I do like the suggestion of a cost reduction based on the amount of pieces. That might make more sense.
But i dont see the current system as game breaking or imbalanced. There are bigger fish to fry.Edited by Brutalis on June 4, 2014 8:38PMA Roman walks into a bar and hold up two fingers and says, "I'll have five beers please."0 -
maxilaub17_ESO✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »
5 or more??demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Armor skills should indeed require 5 or more pieces of the armor they are derived from equipped.
You do realise that 5 pieces is the maximum.
Feet, Legs, Torso. Hands and Head. 5 places to equip armour. Shield is not light/medium/heavy.
7 peices is the maximum:
1. Head
2. Shoulders
3. Hands
4. Torso
5. Belt
6. Legs
7. Feet
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CosmicChaos✭✭✭Catches_the_Sun wrote: »CosmicChaos wrote: »I don't think players in Cryodiil are using that primarily for the armor buff. If you have used an armor buff skill much you should understand. Most DPS in this game is applied with magicka. Spell resist is the only thing that makes much difference in PVP. They get plenty of that from other sources to softcap it without Immovable. What they need from it is a decent CC immunity that cost stamina, a resource they don't use much anyways. >.<
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your original goal. Personally I don't see an issue with immovable being open to all since all the armor skills work that way. However it is strange they went that way with them.
First of all, I never said they're using it just for the armor buff. While they can reach softcap in spell resist through other means, pushing 500+ over the spell resist softcap through Immovable is quite a bonus. As stamina builds don't have much viability in Cyrodiil as it stands right now, anything that gives this kind of bonus without using the precious magicka resource is another great bonus as you point out.
The armor buff is just another perk they get on top of that, leading to the argument of "why wear anything but light armor" when I can pop a stamina-use skill that gives me softcap in armor, pushes me well over softcap in spell resist & gives me CC at the same time.
Just so I'm clear, I would want all of the armor active skills to have a minimum requirement of 5 pieces. I am discussing Immovable because that's the one that people use.
First of all eh? lol. Sorry I found your comment a bit funny. I felt your original post left something to be desired. While your question and post were valid you added in the last line that was a poor offering of why it is so wide spread amongst light armor users. I actually felt the line was an unnecessary addition altogether, but if it was to be part of the discussion then is should be properly stated. That's all.
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Catches_the_Sun✭✭✭✭✭CosmicChaos wrote: »First of all eh? lol. Sorry I found your comment a bit funny. I felt your original post left something to be desired. While your question and post were valid you added in the last line that was a poor offering of why it is so wide spread amongst light armor users. I actually felt the line was an unnecessary addition altogether, but if it was to be part of the discussion then is should be properly stated. That's all.
I am embarrassed. I'll forward you my posts for final edit in the future. Catches-the-Sun - Argonian Templar - Master Smith, Provisioner, Chemist & Tailor
Valaren Arobone - Dunmer Flamewalker - Master Woodworker, Provisioner, Assassin
Kazahad - Khajiiti Arcane Archer - Master Thief
V'orkten - Redguard Swordmaster
Finnvardr the Frenzied - Werewolf Berzerker1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlexDougherty wrote: »
5 or more??demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Armor skills should indeed require 5 or more pieces of the armor they are derived from equipped.
You do realise that 5 pieces is the maximum.
Feet, Legs, Torso. Hands and Head. 5 places to equip armour. Shield is not light/medium/heavy.
There's belt and shoulders too, so 7 pieces available.0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlexDougherty wrote: »
5 or more??demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Armor skills should indeed require 5 or more pieces of the armor they are derived from equipped.
You do realise that 5 pieces is the maximum.
Feet, Legs, Torso. Hands and Head. 5 places to equip armour. Shield is not light/medium/heavy.
^^^^ Cant be none more wrong... 7 pieces is max, Shoulders and Belt. IQ +1
Right and wrong are absolute values. So it's not possible to be more wrong
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Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Differently we need some changes with the active armor skills. In order to use it you should equip at least 5 pieces. Otherwise the OP light armors players can use the really good immovable skill.Because I can!0 -
ShintaiDK✭✭✭CosmicChaos wrote: »I don't think players in Cryodiil are using that primarily for the armor buff. If you have used an armor buff skill much you should understand. Most DPS in this game is applied with magicka. Spell resist is the only thing that makes much difference in PVP. They get plenty of that from other sources to softcap it without Immovable. What they need from it is a decent CC immunity that cost stamina, a resource they don't use much anyways. >.<
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your original goal. Personally I don't see an issue with immovable being open to all since all the armor skills work that way. However it is strange they went that way with them.
As you say, Immoveable add spell resist too. So not only does a light cloth user with a staff get better physical resists than heavy. They also get CC immunity and capped spell resist by using their else useless stamina. Hence they can keep immoveable up almost all the time.
it simply underlines that any player not using a staff and light armour is gimping him or herself.Edited by ShintaiDK on June 4, 2014 9:52PM1 -
ShintaiDK✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »5 might be a bit much, after all that means that if you equip one piece of another type of armour the ultimate goes away.
3 or 4 seems enough to me.
You wear 7 armour pieces. So 3 would allow a double active. Not that I have seen anyone using anything else than immoveable.
Also the penalty needs to be high enough so people its not designed for wont use it to be OP instead.
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