Request for changes in how grouping works.

Ysne58 · June 2014

The important statement the devs have made is 'play how you like (they do not guarantee how successful your style will be). This I believe qualifies as a motto.

Regarding how grouping works, this is not in compliance with that motto.

1. There is forced solo questing in important skill lines: World Quest, Fighters Guild and Mages Guild. The fact that players are not able to group in these is definitely the exact opposite of "play how you like".
2. Some people have stated that they would like the option available to solo any dungeon. That is currently not allowed for. This also flies in the face of "play how you like".
3. Phasing frequently breaks up groups. This a third way in which the horrible grouping mechanics contradicts playing how the player wants.
4. The grouping tool needs drastic revising. The last time I used it I was level 32 trying to look for a group for the dungeon that level. The only option I had was level 35 to 37 and the next group of dungeons.

GreySix · June 2014

Seconded.

vyrusb23 · June 2014

Ysne58 wrote: »

The important statement the devs have made is 'play how you like (they do not guarantee how successful your style will be). This I believe qualifies as a motto.

Regarding how grouping works, this is not in compliance with that motto.

1. There is forced solo questing in important skill lines: World Quest, Fighters Guild and Mages Guild. The fact that players are not able to group in these is definitely the exact opposite of "play how you like".
2. Some people have stated that they would like the option available to solo any dungeon. That is currently not allowed for. This also flies in the face of "play how you like".
3. Phasing frequently breaks up groups. This a third way in which the horrible grouping mechanics contradicts playing how the player wants.
4. The grouping tool needs drastic revising. The last time I used it I was level 32 trying to look for a group for the dungeon that level. The only option I had was level 35 to 37 and the next group of dungeons.

This cannot be overstated enough. This is terrible grouping mechanics, and I can't believe that it was implemented in this way. It is extremely frustrating to team with a friend only to find that there are several missions that you cannot interact with each other on ... effectively forcing a solo situation in a game genre that encourages and was specifically made for group play. I just don't understand it. This definitely needs to be changed to have a chance of catching my interest on a long term basis.

death_ofgodsb14_ESO · June 2014

It would be nice if they had a group finder that allowed you to que by quest, which automatically took your quest phase into account. I bet it would get people into groups much faster than making everything hit harder, or nerfing classes.

LordEcks · June 2014

I want a 12 man raid for my next Dolshia fight, and a VR12 healer behind me since Lyris just stands there and doesnt solo the boss for me in the main quest.
/whine.

edit- sorry if I sound apathetic. Its because I am.

The places you really need to group allow you to do so. Good luck finding the actual people to do it with though.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

To add a few mechanics:

- Group leaders should be able to accept, progress and complete quests for all members of that group.
- Players should be able to take part in these group quests, even if they have already completed the quest, but simply won't receive any end reward (skiilpoint or named loot).
- Players should be able to take group members into any instance or along any questline. Content does NOT have to be specifically altered to support the larger group. Just allow it to happen.
- Group content should not be watered down for solo players. Players wishing to solo said content will need to find a way to overcome the significant difficulty increase.
- Group quests should be created for each zone, to further support group play (outside of group dungeons, dolmens and world bosses).
- Any group (or guild) member in your zone should automatically be visible, no matter if they are in your direct phase or not.
- The groups phase is determined solely by the group leader, so even if you have completed a zone which removes all mobs, for instance, if you reenter that zone with a group leader who has mobs spawned, you will see and be able to fight those mobs again.

Zentrith · June 2014

I'm ok with how the quests are set up. But the grouping tool really needs to be redone. I'm level 40 and cannot access any group dungeons except for my level, now I'm forced to stay in zone chat spamming LFG for a lower level dungeon I missed.

Singular · June 2014

LordEcks wrote: »

I want a 12 man raid for my next Dolshia fight, and a VR12 healer behind me since Lyris just stands there and doesnt solo the boss for me in the main quest.
/whine.

edit- sorry if I sound apathetic. Its because I am.

The places you really need to group allow you to do so. Good luck finding the actual people to do it with though.

The grouping tool is miserable. It's just a random throw together of whatever. You can't write any comments, you can't choose who you group with - or who you deny - it's silly.

It needs to be redone.

meghuskoow · June 2014

The grouping tool doesnt work for me, I tend to stand near what im trying to do like dolmens or dungeons or world bosses. Eventually I find some one that will fill the need, bit there should be a better way and an easier approach.

vyrusb23 · June 2014

LordEcks wrote: »

I want a 12 man raid for my next Dolshia fight, and a VR12 healer behind me since Lyris just stands there and doesnt solo the boss for me in the main quest.
/whine.

edit- sorry if I sound apathetic. Its because I am.

The places you really need to group allow you to do so. Good luck finding the actual people to do it with though.

It's not about making the game easier. It's about playing with other people in a game that is about playing with tons of other people online. The game should scale to team size (including soloing). You should be able to walk up to any regular mission and have the option to play as a team or solo it. With more members, the difficulty of the mission would increase. This way it really isn't about making it easier. This was never my problem in the first place. For that matter, I agree with you. I think it should be a little bit challenging. There is no reason that the mission can't remain challening in a team setting.

vyrusb23 · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

To add a few mechanics:

- Group leaders should be able to accept, progress and complete quests for all members of that group.
- Players should be able to take part in these group quests, even if they have already completed the quest, but simply won't receive any end reward (skiilpoint or named loot).
- Players should be able to take group members into any instance or along any questline. Content does NOT have to be specifically altered to support the larger group. Just allow it to happen.
- Group content should not be watered down for solo players. Players wishing to solo said content will need to find a way to overcome the significant difficulty increase.
- Group quests should be created for each zone, to further support group play (outside of group dungeons, dolmens and world bosses).
- Any group (or guild) member in your zone should automatically be visible, no matter if they are in your direct phase or not.
- The groups phase is determined solely by the group leader, so even if you have completed a zone which removes all mobs, for instance, if you reenter that zone with a group leader who has mobs spawned, you will see and be able to fight those mobs again.

I completely agree with everything here. Well put. The only thing I might change is the watering down for solo players. I wouldn't necessarily water it down, but I would give the option to solo so that people could attempt it. If they find that their build isn't quite able to yet, they have the option to get a team to help them out, or wait a level or two and then go back to solo it when it will be easier for one person.

LordEcks · June 2014

vyrusb23 wrote: »

LordEcks wrote: »

I want a 12 man raid for my next Dolshia fight, and a VR12 healer behind me since Lyris just stands there and doesnt solo the boss for me in the main quest.
/whine.

edit- sorry if I sound apathetic. Its because I am.

The places you really need to group allow you to do so. Good luck finding the actual people to do it with though.

It's not about making the game easier. It's about playing with other people in a game that is about playing with tons of other people online. The game should scale to team size (including soloing). You should be able to walk up to any regular mission and have the option to play as a team or solo it. With more members, the difficulty of the mission would increase. This way it really isn't about making it easier. This was never my problem in the first place. For that matter, I agree with you. I think it should be a little bit challenging. There is no reason that the mission can't remain challening in a team setting.

I think I read to fast and mistook the meaning then.

I'm not in favor of allowing multiple players into solo instances in their current state, no.

But if they were to automatically double the difficulty of said instance for each friend you brought in with you I wouldnt really have a problem with that. I dont disagree that its an MMO and you should be able to play it with your friends 99% of the time.

and as for the comments about the group finder tool, yes.. its annoying. I have to shout LFG to get groups for dungeons the tool assumes I'm too high for. Comically enough I still get exp and loot from those dungeons despite the fact that group finder wont allow me to que for it.

vyrusb23 · June 2014

LordEcks wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

LordEcks wrote: »

I want a 12 man raid for my next Dolshia fight, and a VR12 healer behind me since Lyris just stands there and doesnt solo the boss for me in the main quest.
/whine.

edit- sorry if I sound apathetic. Its because I am.

The places you really need to group allow you to do so. Good luck finding the actual people to do it with though.

It's not about making the game easier. It's about playing with other people in a game that is about playing with tons of other people online. The game should scale to team size (including soloing). You should be able to walk up to any regular mission and have the option to play as a team or solo it. With more members, the difficulty of the mission would increase. This way it really isn't about making it easier. This was never my problem in the first place. For that matter, I agree with you. I think it should be a little bit challenging. There is no reason that the mission can't remain challening in a team setting.

I think I read to fast and mistook the meaning then.

I'm not in favor of allowing multiple players into solo instances in their current state, no.

But if they were to automatically double the difficulty of said instance for each friend you brought in with you I wouldnt really have a problem with that. I dont disagree that its an MMO and you should be able to play it with your friends 99% of the time.

and as for the comments about the group finder tool, yes.. its annoying. I have to shout LFG to get groups for dungeons the tool assumes I'm too high for. Comically enough I still get exp and loot from those dungeons despite the fact that group finder wont allow me to que for it.

I think I can pretty much agree with what you're saying here. The missions should definitely scale (or something similar). It would be overkill for a team to enter a mission that is set for ony one person. I can see there being special contacts that you can talk with to do specifically single/solo player only dungeons/instances, but regular missions that you pick up throughout the course of the game should have scalability to accommodate both single/solo players and groups of people.

Ysne58 · June 2014

I don't have a strong opinion about scaling. I can't get past two of the quests because the harvesters function differently than other in the same quest lines, the npcs with me are totally useless and my attacks randomly don't work when I'm not in stun and able to use them. Once those get fixed, I will probably be able to win those fights.

My point is that the way grouping works now is the exact opposite of being able to play how you like. I'm not sure conditioning changes on required scaling is relevant to this topic. It may however, be necessary for "balance".

The grouping does need to be changed to bring it in line with the devs promise that we can play how we like.

Teeg · June 2014

This is what I shared on FB about this issue:

I had to skip every forced solo boss except for the starter island until I restructured my character to fit the more traditional design. And yes, very frustrating, especially since that's something I've always loved about TES - that I could create any character type that I wanted and be able to play the game the way I wanted to.

I noticed during PTS that the game leaned toward certain classes played certain ways to be able to solo much, which would be fine, if you weren't required to solo so many areas.

I always loved in TES that I could create the character I wanted to play, from the ground up. There weren't as many options to create a character in ESO, but playing with race, skills, and character creation allowed me to create a character that was similar to my usual style. The weird thing is, my usual character set-up has no problems getting through most battles in the game, UNTIL I get to the forced solo bosses, where I'm at a loss every time. And, since this is the closest I could get to every TES character I've had, all of my playing alts (as opposed to training/banking alts) was also built on the same design and had to be changed. So 4 of my characters need to go get respeced now because if I ever want to advance them further, the combo they trained on is unusable.

I find this very disappointing and not at all what I expected from ZoS.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

People taking a dozen L50 healers into a L10 solo story quest. This affects me how?

People should be able to group whenever, wherever and with whoever they want if that's what gives them enjoyment.

Them paying the sub to keep the game from going FTP is the only thing that's important.

GreySix · June 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

People taking a dozen L50 healers into a L10 solo story quest. This affects me how?

Unless you possess a fragile ego, it doesn't.

Ysne58 · June 2014

The phasing issue was discussed in the latest road ahead announcement. It is looking like there will be quest adjustments that will make this less of a problem. I did notice that they did not say the phasing would completely disappear.

Nothing has been said about the other two issues, the forced solo quests being made groupable and the group dungeons being made soloable. I'm assuming you are referring to the ones that anyone can go into and you find lots of people.

Also nothing has been said about the harvesters that are not working as intended (specifically the level 30 main quest and the level 43 fighters quest).

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ could you please have someone comment on fixes for those two quests?

Ysne58 · June 2014

The fixes did work. I did finally get through those two quest lines.

I did die several times and one of the death recaps looked like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home

I'm in a forced solo dungeon and you suggest that I bring someone along? When you don't allow for that in forced solo content? This is just slightly ridiculous.