The vast majority of the 'hate' I've read here since launch is due to massive over-expectations of fans. In today's "instant gratification" society, people seem to have this unrealistic expectation of perfection from day 1.

I am not making excuses - I see plenty that needs fixed. But at the end of the day, when you pay your sub - you do so -willingly-. If the end product is NOT to your liking... you know where the door is, and unsubbing is a pretty simple process.

So far, my wife and I have had 90% fun and 10% frustration. That's good enough for us to continue for awhile to see what else Zeni ends up doing. If at some point that number dips closer to 50/50, we'll cancel. You WON'T see us here whining, bitching, complaining, threatening, and crying like the world is about to end. Like most -normal- people, we'll simply take our money elsewhere, without the need for a 'dramatic exit'.

As for those sad individuals who have nothing better to do than come here and shower hate on a game that some folks are actually enjoying - well, there's always hope that they will one day grow up.

wrlifeboil wrote: »

indytims_ESO wrote: »

The vast majority of the 'hate' I've read here since launch is due to massive over-expectations of fans. In today's "instant gratification" society, people seem to have this unrealistic expectation of perfection from day 1.

I am not making excuses - I see plenty that needs fixed. But at the end of the day, when you pay your sub - you do so -willingly-. If the end product is NOT to your liking... you know where the door is, and unsubbing is a pretty simple process.

So far, my wife and I have had 90% fun and 10% frustration. That's good enough for us to continue for awhile to see what else Zeni ends up doing. If at some point that number dips closer to 50/50, we'll cancel. You WON'T see us here whining, bitching, complaining, threatening, and crying like the world is about to end. Like most -normal- people, we'll simply take our money elsewhere, without the need for a 'dramatic exit'.

As for those sad individuals who have nothing better to do than come here and shower hate on a game that some folks are actually enjoying - well, there's always hope that they will one day grow up.

You would expect that user forums would be dominated by squeaky wheels during the first few weeks after the launch of any game.

The tide usually shifts after the initial wave of disgruntleds stop playing the game for whatever reason like cancelling before the first monthly subscription is due. But for eso, it seems like the worm hasn't turned yet. The hits just keep on coming.

There is reason for the hits. It is not hard to figure out.

I've mentioned before that I think one aspect of "gamer" culture is a tendency toward selfishness, rudeness, and self-entitlement. Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.

I also believe that many of the "problems" with the game were fabricated and then blown out of proportion by outspokenly negative forum-posters, because they want those problems to exist.

Lynnessa wrote: »

I've mentioned before that I think one aspect of "gamer" culture is a tendency toward selfishness, rudeness, and self-entitlement. Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.

I also believe that many of the "problems" with the game were fabricated and then blown out of proportion by outspokenly negative forum-posters, because they want those problems to exist.

I don't think this is true. People come on these forums, because they're passionate about the game. They complain, because they want to see improvements. They want to like the game. People don't like to sit around and say, "Oh well. I'm sure they'll fix everything someday. I'm sure the money I threw at the game is being put to good use."

1) Bots and their spammers have taken over. Want to collect plants? GL in beating teleporting, flying, and under ground bots. Then again, it's not like any crafting mat but the legendary versions are worth the time selling. Want to grind mobs or do certain quests? Oh look at the massive bot trains every where! Yay?
2) Bugs bugs bugs...BUGS every where. Yea, all MMOs usually have bugs but this one takes the award for most bug infested one to date imo. I feel like I am paying to play a beta for consoles.
3) Clunky combat: most problems for me rises from weapon swapping but also how combat is handled...I feel like I have to fight with the controls just to do things that should be easy. Basically, combat isn't 'smooth' to me and this is a killer. When I press a button, things should happen and not sit there waving my arms into the ground praying that spell will actually cast.
4) 1-50 questing was fun, I listened to all NPC VO too but after that...once I hit VR, it really really went down hill from there. I can only repeat the exact same boring/simple quests with similar story lines so many times (over 1500!) and forced to do them ALL b/c there (until crag) was no choice in the matter. Oh and why as say a AD I have to KILL or betray my own faction by doing enemy faction zones? I mean...way to go breaking lore and any sense of faction pride just to save money! /thumbzdown
5) Shallow end game content: if craglorn is the best they can do and this will only happen every 3+ months then this game is doomed. I am sorry, if you do not have deep end game that has a lot of content and variety for all types of players (pvpers, raiders, pvers, soloers, groupers, RPers, explores, etc)...your MMO will become a ghost town eventually. I have seen it dozens of times, apparently Zeni didn't bother researching all those failed MMOs over the years that repeat this mistake. *cough* SWTOR. "End game" in ESO does not exist pretty much, once you hit the VR cap what's left to do is extremely limited and in most part not 'fun'.
6) Cookie cutter builds: only handful of skills are of any use here, most are worthless 'don't bother putting on the bar' variety. I expected diversity but that is a lie.
7) Nerfs. I hate nerfs, even if they are warranted. Instead of re-designing, tweaking, or rebuilding a possible OP ability...intead they just nerf problem skills into the ground out right and move on. Saves money, sure but it really tends to make the community angry. Most balancing here is all around PvP, just like other failed MMOs they went with combining PvP and PvE mechanics in one lump sum; it should have two separate systems period. Thus if a PvP ability is to strong and they nerf it, it won't make the PvE version worthless and vice versa. It's not rocket science, folks.
8 ) Slow updates and next to no real interaction from the devs with the community. Updates and hotfixes creep out like once a month? And dev tracker here is depressing since most consist of just forum warnings, thread closures, and other stuff not related to the game itself. This means devs do what they want and to heck with what we think....? Seems like it.

ESO is fun up to a certain point but once people get into the VR range and def at the cap...this is where the game becomes a real drag. I guess for 15 bucks a month I expect a little better, oh well!

Now I am debating trying that new MMO that's in headstart atm...really thinking about it. I hated how the game looked and the lack of good VO/sounds but on the other hand they claim the game 'begins' at level cap...that right there is a huge selling point to me. ie. once completing that boring leveling slog, there's light at the end of the tunnel with content specifically tailored to keep people around for the long term. This right here is what I feel ESO lacks, lacks big time.

So call me a hater, a content locust, no-lifer, etc; I don't care. MMOs CAN keep me going, even for years on end but it requires a certain something and that something is usually 'end game'. ESO, really hasn't much of that. Just like TOR, Zeni went for the 'leveling experience'. Big mistake man. Subs will drop drastically in 6 months or less unless things improve greatly, count on it. History proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

WilliamTee wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

Lets look at this for a moment. It's a pretty risky idea, I mean gamers are a pretty fickle bunch. The fact is, if this is true, Zeni are risking their console version dying even before launch. As it stands now, if I was a console player waiting for this game to be released I would not be making a purchase of it after visiting these boards. Had it released weeks ago when it was due for release, then I would have because everything seemed ok then.

It's a pretty silly business idea to me. Release something below par that will annoy a large portion of your customer base. Then expect to sell the same product a few months later to a new customer base and hope they haven't seen or read of your previous failings.

Personally I think Zeni dropped the bomb with the BOT invasion and now their precious time is being wasted on this rather than fully focusing on developing the game.

@Mortelus‌ The thing is, in my experience the core console gamer market tends to be made up of a VERY different breed to PC gamers. The only console I own is a knackered old Wii i use for drinking games. Most of my mates have consoles, and then non-gaming spec laptops/netbooks for browsing the internet... quickly being replaced by ipads and the like.

Those who played Skyrim on PC probably didn't quite appreciate just how huge a success it was on console... maybe cos they were too busy being distracted by their player-made mods, exploding chickens and such.

Personally I found it really rather bizarre that all my RL mates were suddenly playing the same game as me, normally we had very little overlap between our two different worlds of gaming.

It's very apparent that this game has been built from the ground up to be console compatible - hence only 6 abilities at a time (I have like 40 keybound abilities in WOW), and the very basic, frustratingly limited UIs for storage/sales.

It's built to be played without a keyboard or mouse.

The recent announcement that for a small fee you can jump ship to the console? Honestly scares me more than anything.

I'd agree however that it's a bad business plan to target the console market as a priority...

I remember playing C&C Red Alert, a truly awesome PC strategy game for its time...

But playing it on Playstation made me want to cry.

Some genres simply do not translate well from PC to console.

I don't mean it is bad business to target console players as your main target audience, I am fully aware that PC sales only made up 14% of all Skyrim copies sold. (I have another link in some other thread discussing this).

My point being that it would be bad business planning to release a product that annoys a percentage of your customer base and then expect to release the product again to a different customer base.

Console players regularly visit these forums and no doubt some will be anxious and on the fence about buying this game. Which is understandable.

This game wasn't designed from the ground up a console game, consoles only entered the equation half way through development.

I think before all of these issues arose, they were on to a winner on consoles. You can see in my post history I have supported this game and my views.

I think they have already lost a number of potential console players due to the problems on the PC version which are basically fundamental play style mechanics, E.G. VR levels eliminating altaholicism, bad grouping/phasing and such.

But I have no evidence this is just my opinion, but I would be surprised if they hadn't already alienated some console gamers that were initially going to play this game.

The underlying factor on my loss of faith is, how long it takes me to farm mats to make simple white gear (leather/medium), how the bot have ruined my experience, and how after two months they still have a broken class in the game.

Saerydoth wrote: »

Like I said in another thread, there are 2 groups of ESO "players".

1) the small but vocal minority on the forums complaining about how bad the game is and how it is dead
2) the silent majority who is happy with the game and playing the game instead of whining on the forums

This is always the response to these types of complaints.

1) This group (myself included), feel passionately about this game. I want it to be the game it should be. I have not asked for any major changes I have asked for fixes to broken things, like a culling on the bot population, hides easier to come by my NB to be viable and stamina builds given loving and add some stamina based classes.


2) people that enjoy the game have no reason to complain thus probably don't complain on the forums. You sir are correct and very observant!

Most people have valid complaints here and just want the game the paid and are paying for each month. This of you that are happy, congratulations. I am happy that you are happy.

Some people are not however and you cannot simple palm these players away by stating they are just whining over nothing. This game IS in trouble and anyone can see that. It may have a healthy population right now, but people are leaving in droves, and for it to stay as a P2P game (which I want it to do), they need to keep willing paying players.

sparks60188b14_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

sparks60188b14_ESO wrote: »

This is the kind of player who wants to hook it up to their 50 inch giant flat screens hooked up to their stereo system, kick back on a comfy sofa with a game pad in their hands.

I do that with my computer and my giant 57 inch tv screen and couch, works nicely and because it's a computer (i7 2600k @4.6GHz and a gtx780sc acx etc) is much more powerful than a console.

No console is needed to bring a game into your lounge, it's easily done with your computer (with a good graphics card and a modern tv) and HDMI cables.

It's really only a matter of time before more people start doing this, and consoles go the way of dinosaurs.

You are not sitting back with your feet up with a keyboard and mouse contraption, not happening.

I am, 55" connected to my PC and most games that allow it I use my wireless XB controller. However MMO's or strategy I use K/M. I would love this game to have proper XB controller support.

Ellemere wrote: »

Millionaires wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Personal opinion.
Personal opinion.
Personal opinion.
Every MMORPG has bots, find me one that doesn't.
Personal opinion.
Guilds?
Personal opinion.
Personal opinion.

You're looking at the bad, instead of the good. It's this that you refuse to even look at, instead bad things are clouding your mind.

LOTRO does not have bots nor gold sellers, turbine took the bold step in banning asian ip addresses and "boom" all the spammers and goldsellers went over night. Have not seen one since late 2007

This cannot be true, I have been happily playing that game on and off for many years and I have lived in China since 2011 and have never had to use a VPN to connect to their servers.

No SWTOR, who deny an IP ban of Asia, I do need a VPN.

why does this game get so much hate?
Will for me it is the VET level. If it were up to me once you hit VR1, you can still do the two other Alliance zones, but you would not have to do all the quest. By this I mean you go there as a spy and have only 3 quest in each zone all which give skill points once you do them. So only 15 for each Alliance area. You also do the main “zerg” thing like WB and Dols, Solo dungeons. But you should not have to do 40 (400+ in all) quest in each zone for weak VP. The zones were VR1, and just zerging and doing those 3 quest in each zone times 10 because there are ten Alliance zones you hit VR3, and have only VR3 lvl cap. The PVP zone mobs should be VR2. Once carglon hit they could have raised the cap to VR4, and so on with each new zone. That would be so discouraging, and making new Toons would not be so boring.

Issues is when I hit VR12 and had nothing to do, but remake a new toon. And I cannot re level a new toon. The vet levels are just insane. This has effected PVP to, most people won’t pvp in till they are max lvl with top gear. And so many people un-subbed, so the pvp numbers are dropping. They botched this game. I can live with bugs, expect quest bugs. If I cannot complete a quest because of a bug and this makes questing the only way to lvl then I have issues, but that has gotten better. I get broken classes. Game is 2 months old, it takes time to balance out classes, I get that. But the fundamentals of this game in terms of leveling is what killed this game (for me at least). I get grind, I played Lineage 2 and anyone who played L2 knows that was a grind. But that grind was spot grinding, and in this game it does not work, you have to quest. But after you hit level 50, and then are told but wait there is more, go quest out 35m more XP.

Mortelus wrote: »

My NB works ok at level 23. However I came this game wanting to play a 2H Stealthy Barbarian who hated magika like I have played in every ES game. But it is not really a viable class. So then I wanted to play a 2h stormcaller in heavy armour, again not really viable because heavy armour sucks.

SO I played a ranger, but apparently they also suck at higher levels, moreover EVERY single class has skills in magika, and all weapons skills that use stamina are pretty sucky.

What does "not viable" mean? Does it mean that a group with magicka-oriented characters will complete a dungeon in 20 minutes while a group with stamina-oriented characters will take 30?

@Crisscross haha i love you

i like the game in terms of lore and graphics and all that jazz but the mechanics are broken as hell, anyone who do not see the problem with that are delusional or refuse to aknowledge that some people have more problems with the game than others, whether it be because of class choice or simply because they can't log in etc etc

im paying for a game that's playable and for potential improvements, not for fixes to something that's completely broken aka this whole game

I love the game and I recently posted my own review here on this forum that explains it all. It's a good game with lots of potential but getting ruined by simple things that frustrate players.

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

A big part of the problem is that amidst all of the issues the game has, we've heard nothing from the actual developers acknowledging that there are problems and communication something about what they planning to address them. Nothing. Just more sales pitches for new content and community liaisons popping up every now and then like Squealer to assure us that "Everything is fine, comrades".

If you click the "developper tracker" button, you can see every response ZOS has posted. They've posted several dozen responses regarding the issues, particularly about the Craglorn patch debacle.

For example:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/102794/fixes-in-progress-patch-1-1-2/p1

They've acknowledged the problems and responded quite a bit.

What you see on dev tracker is exactly what I'm talking about. It's nothing but forum moderators and others commenting on specific bugs with the predictable "we're looking at it" non-answer. We haven't seen any comprehensive responses from anyone in authority. We should be seeing weekly updates from whoever is in charge of development along with a roadmap for when the game's issues (all of the often-cited issues here on the forums, not just a cherry-picked few) are going to be addressed.

Crickets.

Zubba wrote: »

The thing is. I dont think any sane person would cancel their sub in any game, then sit on the forum all day long writing about it. It seems to me that the people on this forum actually believe they can change the game into something they wish by threatening to cancel their sub. Change it to wow? lol NO THANKS.

ESO is simply a great game, Young and immature but bloody great.

LOL! I need some of what you are taking!